Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 127
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    streakster's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    500 miles that a way!

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    A sorcerer can be quite a good blaster. Generally, its not considered effective for Wizards to blast because its more effective for them to leave all the enemies naked, hogtied and upsidedown for the fighter to coup-de grace.

    A sorcerer has the spell slots to blast, if he wants to. Generally, this is even the sorcerer's archetypical role in combat: "casts the spells that makes the mans fall down."


    There's a variant sorcerer that gets better metamagic, but again, not in core. I personally don't take much metamagic as a sorcerer, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Ya know, Strife, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but streakster made one of the the best analogies of all time. Of all time.
    The perfect fighter fix.
    Hey, the magnificent Shades of gray made me the cool paladin! Give him a hand!
    From time to time, I vanish from the boards. Like Frosty, though, I'll be back again some day!

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Its good for a Sorcerer to have a little bit of damage, and for damage, you really can't go wrong with Scorching Ray. Its low level, but scales better than a lot of other damage spells (caps at 12d6). It also responds well to being Empowered, and I highly suggest you pick up Empower spell because there are plenty of other spells that respond well to Empower as well (mostly necromancy spells like Ray of Enfeeblement and Enervation).

    If you don't want to take any blasty spells, consider dropping 2 feats on Draconic Heritage (Copper or Black depending on alignment) + Draconic Breath. This allows you to convert spell slots into 60' streams of acid that deal 2d6 damage per level of the spell slot, with a reflex DC based on the level of the spell slot. This also allows you to pick up some utility and debuff metabreath spells like Blinding Breath or Dispelling Breath from the Spell Compendium to get more bang for your breath. This allows you to blast AND disable with the same action, and it scales with level. Plus, reflex saves tend to go down relatively as you gain levels, due to dex penalties associated with larger sizes. Definitely a versitile tactic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    no

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    My personal recommendation? Sorcerer. With the wizard's "save or fail" and "save or die" spells, what many people forget is that the monsters that you really want to put down usually have a good enough save to ignore it. Against a bunch of orcs etc, they do great. Against the inevitable big ol' dragon? not so much. A sorc would also prolly be really good for your party, because from what I can tell, you probably don't have a member with a high Charisma, aka a liar/diplomacy bitch. If you do end up with access to Complete Mage and Reserve feats, take Heighten Spell. Why, you ask? Because, a scorching ray could theoretically be heightened to however high you want, and still be "prepared" because a sorc doesn't have to choose his spells in the morning, which allows you to get more bang for your feats with level-based variables in Reserve feats.

    If you want the loremaster setup though, definitely choose wizard. Sorcerers (at least mine) almost never have a great int, and so, whats the point in having a character based on intelligence based skills?

    Summary of my ramblings: Sorcerer = versatile blaster; Wizard = party casting bitch that can pull up almost anything; Both = dead in melee combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuckets
    Pico's Law #7: The fastest way around a wall is to blast a hole in it.
    Sorcerer: "I! Am! The! Charismabitch! You WILL like me!"

    I'm a teen, not a convict. Please treat me as such.

    Looking for a good way to play Warhammer games online. PM me if you find one.

    My Games:
    Organized Crime--Adrian Alastar

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Banned
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    the abyss (aka NJ)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Go sorcerer. Many people will tell you that wizard is better, but if this is your first character ever, it's better to got the path of sorcery (more spells per day and you have less variety in spells to worry about casting). Now, you mentioned thinking of going Mystic Theurge. My advise, take some levels of cleric and do it. Think about it: as a cleric, you can use strategy to plan ahead, and as a sorcerer, you can just rely on spontaneous spells to get you out of dire situations you didn't plan for.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    On scrolls, metamagic and sorcerers:

    Utility scrolls are a good idea for sorcerers to carry too. Just buy them instead of scribing them. Get a wide variety; since they're low level and you use them so rarely, they'll be cheap. You'll be ready for every weird little thing, so it's well worth it to get them as soon as you're high enough level to afford them for hardly any coin.

    Metamagic is actually a very good idea for sorcerers, probably a major advantage of taking the class for all but quicken. Spending a full round action instead of a standard to cast a spell usually isn't a big deal, and the added versatility of being able to apply metamagic on the fly is nice. Heighten is a major one that benefits a sorc much more than a wizard, as mentioned. But, others like extend are helpful too. Blasty metamagic like empower and maximize are equally good for both wizard and sorcs, since wizards can usually tell ahead of time which spells they want to apply it to. Still good for sorcs though. Note that they also applies to other variable numeric spells like false life and ray of enfeeblement.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-04-10 at 05:34 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    streakster's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    500 miles that a way!

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    On scrolls, metamagic and sorcerers:

    Utility scrolls are a good idea for sorcerers to carry too. Just buy them instead of scribing them. Get a wide variety; since they're low level and you use them so rarely, they'll be cheap. You'll be ready for every weird little thing, so it's well worth it to get them as soon as you're high enough level to afford them for hardly any coin.

    Metamagic is actually a very good idea for sorcerers, probably a major advantage of taking the class for all but quicken. Spending a full round action instead of a standard to cast a spell usually isn't a big deal, and the added versatility of being able to apply metamagic on the fly is nice. Heighten is a major one that benefits a sorc much more than a wizard, as mentioned. But, others like extend are helpful too. Blasty metamagic like empower and maximize are equally good for both wizard and sorcs, since wizards can usually tell ahead of time which spells they want to apply it to. Still good for sorcs though. Note that they also applies to other variable numeric spells like false life and ray of enfeeblement.
    Huh, weird. The full-round thing has always been a massive disadvantage for me.

    Ah well, diff'rent strokes.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Ya know, Strife, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but streakster made one of the the best analogies of all time. Of all time.
    The perfect fighter fix.
    Hey, the magnificent Shades of gray made me the cool paladin! Give him a hand!
    From time to time, I vanish from the boards. Like Frosty, though, I'll be back again some day!

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    You still get your 5' step. And its a full round action, not a full round (like summoning), so it still happens on your turn. Really, if you have to move, move and don't use metamagic. But, if you don't have to move, why not slap a little Empower on that Ray of Enfeeblement? You know you want to!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Rays sound cool, but TLN suggested that damage is a waste of time - for Wizards. Is it different for Sorcerers, or do you simply disagree?
    I find that having SOME damage capability is good, just don't rely on it. There will be times when you'll be happy to have one or two damage spells, in addition to save-based spells. That being said, there's lots of other great rays, such as Ray of Enfeeblement (1d6+1/2 caster level str penalty for 1min/level), or Enervation (1d4 negative levels), where landing them can make a huge pain in the ass for your target. Point Blank Shot is nice for this, but the main reason I recommend PBS is to get Precise Shot. Precise Shot makes it so you don't take a -4 penalty for something being in melee, which IS a big deal.


    Heightened Spell seems amazing for the Sorcerer. Will keep that in mind.

    Metamagic on a Sorcerer seems a little weaker, though, because of the extra time thing.
    It's annoying, sure, but it won't break you. Sometimes you'll not have any use for your move action, and sometimes you'll need it - but it's nice to have metamagic options for those times you aren't going to be moving around. You don't really need to run from that horde of Orc Barbarians, when you have a couple friendly meat shields, so you won't use that Move action most likely. Why not crank up the save of your Glitterdust spell to counter their Rage bonus to Will with that spare time?
    Pokemon friend code : 3067-5701-8746

    Trade list can be found on my Giant League wiki page, all pokemon are kept in stock with 5 IVs, most with egg moves, some bred for Hidden Powers. Currently at 42 in stock and counting.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    I find that having SOME damage capability is good, just don't rely on it. There will be times when you'll be happy to have one or two damage spells, in addition to save-based spells. That being said, there's lots of other great rays, such as Ray of Enfeeblement (1d6+1/2 caster level str penalty for 1min/level), or Enervation (1d4 negative levels), where landing them can make a huge pain in the ass for your target. Point Blank Shot is nice for this, but the main reason I recommend PBS is to get Precise Shot. Precise Shot makes it so you don't take a -4 penalty for something being in melee, which IS a big deal.
    I wouldn't bother with these feats. At low levels you don't have the feats to spare to dump 2 feats into boosting your ranged touch attacks, and at high levels touch attacks are easy enough to land that you'll consistently be hitting.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Suedars View Post
    I wouldn't bother with these feats. At low levels you don't have the feats to spare to dump 2 feats into boosting your ranged touch attacks, and at high levels touch attacks are easy enough to land that you'll consistently be hitting.
    What else would you suggest a Human Sorcerer get for feats, then?
    Pokemon friend code : 3067-5701-8746

    Trade list can be found on my Giant League wiki page, all pokemon are kept in stock with 5 IVs, most with egg moves, some bred for Hidden Powers. Currently at 42 in stock and counting.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Curious as to the answer to that, myself.

    By the way, started looking at the Spell list... I think if I were to be a level 3 Sorcerer, my spell list would be this:
    • 5 level-0 spells:
      1. Resistance
      2. Message
      3. Read Magic
      4. Detect Magic
      5. Prestidigitation
    • 3 level-1 spells:
      1. Mage Armor
      2. Ray of Enfeeblement
      3. Sleep
    Thoughts?
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-12 at 06:20 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Curious as to the answer to that, myself.

    By the way, started looking at the Spell list... I think if I were to be a level 3 Sorcerer, my spell list would be this:
    • 5 level-0 spells:
      1. Resistance
      2. Message
      3. Read Magic
      4. Detect Magic
      5. Prestidigitation
    • 3 level-1 spells:
      1. Mage Armor
      2. Ray of Enfeeblement
      3. Sleep
    Thoughts?
    Sleep is great at low level and becomes useless fast - a prime candidate for trading-out. You might want to consider "Ray of Clumsiness" instead of Enfeeblement, as it's exactly the same thing but for Dex (and hence debuffs AC and Ref Saves, and save-reducers rock). Grease is a classic at 1st level, too.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Um, starting at level 3, Sleep is already starting to become lackluster. I'd go with Grease instead. Its not a game winning, but its still really really really good and continues to be good for the rest of your life (this spell single handedly disables most golems completely!).

    Other than that, looks good!

    Glitterdust should be your first spell next level. Its hands down probably the best 2nd level spell for a primary caster ever written.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    You might want to consider "Ray of Clumsiness" instead of Enfeeblement, as it's exactly the same thing but for Dex (and hence debuffs AC and Ref Saves, and save-reducers rock).
    Not in the SRD. Otherwise, yes, I would. What school does that fall under, by the way?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Other than that, looks good!

    Glitterdust should be your first spell next level. Its hands down probably the best 2nd level spell for a primary caster ever written.
    Thanks! Yeah, that's been mentioned several times, and I have every intention of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Sleep is great at low level and becomes useless fast - a prime candidate for trading-out. [...] Grease is a classic at 1st level, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Um, starting at level 3, Sleep is already starting to become lackluster. I'd go with Grease instead. Its not a game winning, but its still really really really good and continues to be good for the rest of your life (this spell single handedly disables most golems completely!).
    Ah! I was right the first time. Switched Grease for Sleep at the last minute.

    So my two questions, I guess, are "do I want to do summoning?" (seems like it might be a lot for me to keep track of, all the different summons with all their different abilities...), and "is getting involved in Crafting a good idea?"

    And thoughts on a final spell selection (level learned) [School]:
    • level-0
      1. Resistance (1) [Abjur]
      2. Detect Magic (1) [Div]
      3. Read Magic (1) [Div]
      4. Message (1) [Trans]
      5. Prestidigitation (2) [Univ]
      6. Ghost Sound (4) [Illus]
      7. Mage Hand (6) [Trans]
      8. Dancing Lights (8) [Evoc]
      9. Arcane Mark (10) [Univ]
    • level-1
      1. Ray of Enfeeblement (1) [Necro]
      2. Mage Armor (1) [Conj]
      3. Grease (3) [Conj]
      4. Magic Weapon (5) [Trans]
      5. Identify (7) [Div] -> Comprehend Languages (16) [Div]
    • level-2
      1. Glitterdust (4) [Conj]
      2. Eagle's Splendor (5) [Trans]
      3. Mirror Image (7) [Illus] -> See Invisibility (10) [Div]
      4. Rope Trick (9) [Trans]
    • level-3
      1. Ray of Exhaustion (6) [Necro]
      2. Major Image (7) [Illus]
      3. Fly (9) [Trans] -> Haste (14) [Trans]
      4. Arcane Sight (11) [Div] -> Tongues (18) [Div]
    • level-4
      1. Enervation (8) [Necro]
      2. Greater Invisibility (9) [Illus]
      3. Dimension Door (11) [Conj]
      4. Dimensional Anchor (13) [Abjur]
    • level-5
      1. Shadow Evocation (10) [Illus]
      2. Persistent Image (11) [Illus]
      3. Overland Flight (13) [Trans]
      4. Mirage Arcana (15) [Illus]
    • level-6
      1. Anti-Magic Field (12) [Abjur]
      2. Veil (13) [Illus]
      3. Geas (15) [Ench]
    • level-7
      1. Greater Shadow Conjuration (12) [Illus]
      2. Ethereal Jaunt (13) [Trans]
      3. Greater Arcane Sight (15) [Div]
    • level-8
      1. Greater Shadow Evocation (16) [Illus]
      2. Irresistable Dance (17) [Ench]
      3. Mind Blank (19) [Abjur]
    • level-9
      1. Shades (18) [Illus]
      2. Time Stop (19) [Trans]
      3. Dominate Monster (20) [Ench]
    Thoughts?
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-12 at 04:12 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    That is actually kinda funny. While Ray of Enfeeblement is Necromancy, Ray of Clumisiness is Transmutation. I mean, other than that, they are the exact same spell if you hit Ctr + F and find/replace Str with Dex.

    Personally, I like Ray of Enfeeblement better. Dropping a foes str drastically lowers damage output, while dropping their dex only slightly affects AC and reflex saves. Ray of Cluminess is useful for setting up 1-2 punches with strong reflex based spells, but for general use, I'd rather RoE.

    Plus, depending on the tactics of whatever you are fighting, if you drop your foes Str down to 12 or less, they can't use Power Attack (requires 13+ str) or any PA related feats or class features. Thats awesome. Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement will pretty much neuter any humanoid str based melee character on a decent roll. Its a good thing!

    EDIT:
    Magic Weapon at the level you get it is kinda...meh. I wouldn't get it.

    Eagles Splendor, by the time you get it, is also rather lack luster. You should have a +2 cha item by then, at which point its only giving you a +1 DC. Keep in mind that you don't get extra spell slots from temporary increases in cha.

    You should get Haste right at 6th. Its soooooo strong at that point. Seriously. Then get Fly at 7th and then maybe Ray of Exhaustion at 9. That would be my suggestion.

    Enervation is decent as your first pick at level 8, but I'd probably take Solid Fog instead. SF is a no-save, no-sr nearly uncounterable time out for 2 rounds spell. It will probably be the first spell you cast every combat that you fight more than a single foe, since it effectively removes 1-2 combatants from the game, giving you 2 rounds to mop up their friends before turning your busy blades on the clueless baddies emerging from it. As a Sorcerer, you can literally SPAM it because its that good.

    While I like Dim Door, if you aren't taking it until 11th level, swap it for the 5th level Teleport instead. TP is everything Dim Door is and more. That frees up another 4th level slot to take Evards Black Tenticles. That spell ends fights against anything medium sized or smaller. If you have a cleric or bard on your team that can drop a silence on the area in tandem with your EBT, thats pretty much good game over.

    Other than that, looks ok.
    Last edited by Keld Denar; 2009-04-12 at 04:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Crel View Post

    If you want the loremaster setup though, definitely choose wizard. Sorcerers (at least mine) almost never have a great int, and so, whats the point in having a character based on intelligence based skills?

    Summary of my ramblings: Sorcerer = versatile blaster; Wizard = party casting bitch that can pull up almost anything; Both = dead in melee combat.
    What? My Wu Jen survived melee, but then he wore a +1 Twlight Mithral Chain Shirt (5000 gp) and +1 Mithral Buckler (2000 gp).
    Surviving melee combat: Priceless.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    That is actually kinda funny. While Ray of Enfeeblement is Necromancy, Ray of Clumisiness is Transmutation. I mean, other than that, they are the exact same spell if you hit Ctr + F and find/replace Str with Dex.

    Personally, I like Ray of Enfeeblement better. Dropping a foes str drastically lowers damage output, while dropping their dex only slightly affects AC and reflex saves. Ray of Cluminess is useful for setting up 1-2 punches with strong reflex based spells, but for general use, I'd rather RoE.

    Plus, depending on the tactics of whatever you are fighting, if you drop your foes Str down to 12 or less, they can't use Power Attack (requires 13+ str) or any PA related feats or class features. Thats awesome. Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement will pretty much neuter any humanoid str based melee character on a decent roll. Its a good thing!
    Sounds awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Magic Weapon at the level you get it is kinda...meh. I wouldn't get it.

    Eagles Splendor, by the time you get it, is also rather lack luster. You should have a +2 cha item by then, at which point its only giving you a +1 DC. Keep in mind that you don't get extra spell slots from temporary increases in cha.

    You should get Haste right at 6th. Its soooooo strong at that point. Seriously. Then get Fly at 7th and then maybe Ray of Exhaustion at 9. That would be my suggestion.

    Enervation is decent as your first pick at level 8, but I'd probably take Solid Fog instead. SF is a no-save, no-sr nearly uncounterable time out for 2 rounds spell. It will probably be the first spell you cast every combat that you fight more than a single foe, since it effectively removes 1-2 combatants from the game, giving you 2 rounds to mop up their friends before turning your busy blades on the clueless baddies emerging from it. As a Sorcerer, you can literally SPAM it because its that good.

    While I like Dim Door, if you aren't taking it until 11th level, swap it for the 5th level Teleport instead. TP is everything Dim Door is and more. That frees up another 4th level slot to take Evards Black Tenticles. That spell ends fights against anything medium sized or smaller. If you have a cleric or bard on your team that can drop a silence on the area in tandem with your EBT, thats pretty much good game over.

    Other than that, looks ok.
    OK, then revised list: Charm Person instead of Magic Weapon, Mirror Image instead of Eagle's Splendor and taking See Invisibility at 9, reworks of 3rd and 4th level spells, Teleport instead of Persistent Image.
    • level-0
      1. Resistance (1) [Abjur]
      2. Detect Magic (1) [Div]
      3. Read Magic (1) [Div]
      4. Message (1) [Trans]
      5. Prestidigitation (2) [Univ]
      6. Ghost Sound (4) [Illus]
      7. Mage Hand (6) [Trans]
      8. Dancing Lights (8) [Evoc]
      9. Arcane Mark (10) [Univ]
    • level-1
      1. Ray of Enfeeblement (1) [Necro]
      2. Mage Armor (1) [Conj]
      3. Grease (3) [Conj]
      4. Charm Person (5) [Ench]
      5. Identify (7) [Div] -> Comprehend Languages (16) [Div]
    • level-2
      1. Glitterdust (4) [Conj]
      2. Mirror Image (5) [Illus]
      3. See Invisibility (7) [Div]
      4. Rope Trick (9) [Trans]
    • level-3
      1. Haste (6) [Trans]
      2. Fly (7) [Trans]
      3. Major Image (9) [Illus]
      4. Arcane Sight (11) [Div] -> Tongues (18) [Div]
    • level-4
      1. Solid Fog (8) [Conj]
      2. Enervation (9) [Necro]
      3. Greater Invisibility (11) [Illus]
      4. Black Tentacles (13) [Conj]
    • level-5
      1. Shadow Evocation (10) [Illus]
      2. Teleport (11) [Conj]
      3. Overland Flight (13) [Trans]
      4. Mirage Arcana (15) [Illus]
    • level-6
      1. Anti-Magic Field (12) [Abjur]
      2. Veil (13) [Illus]
      3. Geas (15) [Ench]
    • level-7
      1. Greater Shadow Conjuration (12) [Illus]
      2. Ethereal Jaunt (13) [Trans]
      3. Greater Arcane Sight (15) [Div]
    • level-8
      1. Greater Shadow Evocation (16) [Illus]
      2. Irresistable Dance (17) [Ench]
      3. Mind Blank (19) [Abjur]
    • level-9
      1. Shades (18) [Illus]
      2. Time Stop (19) [Trans]
      3. Dominate Monster (20) [Ench]
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-12 at 06:26 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Sorry, I wrote what's below after reading your first list, so some things may have changed. The tips between the lists are good and I'd agree.

    Magic weapon only gives a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage. You can already get +1 AB from getting masterwork weapons. The spell is pretty much for breaking DR, that's it. Too situational, put on a scroll if anything. Identify should also be on scrolls; you're already paying 100gp, might as well pay another 25 and it's situational anyway. You don't necessarily need it during an adventure, maybe just pay an NPC after. Eagle's splendor should be replaced by a cloak of charisma at later levels. If you want to cast it outside of combat early on that's fine (+X buffs are too weak to use in combat), but I'd swap it out at later levels. See invisibility is likewise situational; unless you fight invisible foes on a daily basis I'd buy it on a scroll or scrolls. Comprehend languages, tongues and dimensional anchor are likewise situational, and belong on scrolls. Dimensional anchor is 4th level, which is a bit expensive for a scroll, so that one's up to you.

    I'd avoid getting too many spells that do the same thing, if possible. Sometimes they're different enough that you just have to have both, but you'll be more versatile if you can just get one of each. I also wouldn't count on shadow evocation and conjuration to replace all or even most of the evocation and conjuration spells. Just the misc ones, perhaps (and I'd keep a list so you can remember them). There are a lot of good ones where you'll want the real thing. My favorites are the walls (especially stone & force) and solid fog to divide the enemy, plus a nice source of metamagicked out backup damage, but I don't want to sway your focus if you're shooting for something else.

    You don't seem to have many high level combat spells, unless you want illusions to be your focus. Which is awesome, just make sure you have a plan for your illusions. And consider the [greater] spell focus (illusion) feat[s] if you go this route. Otherwise I generally consider spells numbered 1-3 on my previous list to be good "combat spells". You already have some at lower levels, like grease, glitterdust and haste.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Sorry, I wrote what's below after reading your first list, so some things may have changed. The tips between the lists are good and I'd agree.
    It's cool, it's really good advice, I think. I was thinking too much like a Wizard, I think. Still tempted to go back to Wizard/Loremaster/Archmage, actually - I like the versatility of knowing lots and lots of spells. Might make crafting worthwhile, too (I decided against crafting as the Sorcerer because most cool things require little spells like Eagle's Splendor that I don't want to get otherwise). But I think for my first game versatility is only going to make things difficult, and make me spend more time on this than I can afford at the moment (though I think I'd enjoy it). Next time, perhaps.

    Therefore, new list, though mostly the old one with suggested tweaks and some going over the spell list. Ditched a lot of Divination spells that I'd taken in a half-assed attempt to qualify for Loremaster - just not going to happen, sadly. The lack of PrCs for Core Sorcerers is disconcerting, seeing as they get almost nothing from base class levels (everything I've read suggests that Familiars are usually useless, and making them not-useless usually requires not-Core material).

    Also, new format - what I'll grab each level. If anyone would prefer the old format, I can get it pretty easily - I have my spells in an Excel document that self-updates. It's very convenient.

    1. (Sor 1)
      • 0 Resistance [Abjur]
      • 0 Detect Magic [Div]
      • 0 Read Magic [Div]
      • 0 Prestidigitation [Trans]
      • 1 Ray of Enfeeblement [Necro]
      • 1 Mage Armor [Conj]
    2. (Sor 2)
      • 0 Message [Trans]
    3. (Sor 3)
      • 1 Grease [Conj]
    4. (Sor 4)
      • 0 Ghost Sound [Illus]
      • 2 Glitterdust [Conj]
    5. (Sor 5)
      • 1 Charm Person [Ench]
      • 2 Mirror Image [Illus]
    6. (Sor 6)
      • 0 Mage Hand [Trans]
      • 3 Haste [Trans]
    7. (Sor 7)
      • 1 Protection from Law [Abjur]
      • 2 Scorching Ray [Evoc]
      • 3 Fly [Trans]
    8. (Sor 8)
      • 0 Dancing Lights [Evoc]
      • 4 Solid Fog [Conj]
    9. (Sor 9)
      • 2 Rope Trick [Trans]
      • 3 Wind Wall [Evoc]
      • 4 Enervation [Necro]
    10. (Sor 10)
      • 0 Arcane Mark [Univ]
      • 5 Shadow Evocation [Illus]
    11. (Sor 11)
      • 3 Magic Circle against Law [Abjur]
      • 4 Greater Invisibility [Illus]
      • 5 Teleport [Trans]
    12. (Sor 12)
      • 6 Anti-Magic Field [Abjur]
      • Forget Protection from Law [Abjur], learn Alarm [Abjur]
    13. (Sor 13)
      • 4 Black Tentacles [Conj]
      • 5 Magic Jar [Necro]
      • 6 Acid Fog [Conj]
    14. (Sor 14)
      • 7 Greater Shadow Conjuration [Illus]
      • Forget Solid Fog [Conj], learn Wall of Force [Evoc]
    15. (Sor 14 / Arch 1)
      • 5 Mirage Arcana [Illus]
      • 6 Veil [Illus]
      • 7 Reverse Gravity [Trans]
    16. (Sor 14 / Arch 2)
      • 8 Greater Shadow Evocation [Illus]
    17. (Sor 14 / Arch 3)
      • 7 Project Image [Illus]
      • 8 Scintillating Pattern [Illus]
    18. (Sor 14 / Arch 4)
      • 9 Shades [Illus]
    19. (Sor 14 / Arch 5)
      • 8 Mind Blank [Abjur]
      • 9 Time Stop [Trans]
    20. (Sor 15 / Arch 5)
      • 9 Dominate Monster [Ench]
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-13 at 04:33 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Seems good for the most part. Wind wall, protection from law and magic circle against law seem a bit too situational, unless there's something about your campaign I don't know about. I went back over your list a second time to make sure you'd have combat spells on all levels (so you wouldn't be groaning until you leveled up a couple times), and it mostly checked out good. Levels 5 & 6 are missing combat spells, but you have plenty from levels 1-4 to carry you until you get level 7 spells. I think a sorcerer I played didn't have any of those kinds of spells on levels 5 & 6 either, except for a level 4 spell I put in level 5 b/c I ran out of level 4 slots and really wanted it. Maybe there just isn't much available. You don't seem to have many long-lasting buffs at lower level, which may leave you with more spells per day than you can use at mid to high levels. Some examples are energy resistance, protection from energy, greater magic weapon, heroism and stoneskin if you can find the space for them. Preferably you'd swap them in later, rather than making them your highest level spells at any point. Other between battle spells like detect thoughts to scout through wooden doors could work too. Again these are only for extra spell slots that you wouldn't have time to use otherwise; they're weaker than other spells. Or even if you leave the list as-is, I think it's good to go. Have fun.

    While getting into loremaster is a royal pain, you can shoot for archmage fairly easily. Of the 3 feats required there's only 1 feat you wouldn't want to get anyway (skill focus - spellcraft), and even that can be semi-useful. And at level 14 you'll have at least 5 feats. The skills are probably skills you'll be maxing out anyway, though you may want a 12 int so you can get a good concentration check too. I'd probably put the spell focuses into illusion and conjuration, given your spell list and b/c a lot of those spells have saves. For your other two feats heighten spell and greater spell focus are possible options, or another metamagic.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-04-13 at 01:45 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    I'm Human, so I get the extra Feat. Currently I'm planning on Improved Initiative (Human Bonus Feat), Skill Focus: Spellcraft (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Empower Spell (6th), Spell Focus: Illusion (9th), Spell Focus: Conjuration? (12th), Improved Counterspelling (15th), Reactive Counterspelling (18th) (if DM allows it; won't get Improved Counterspelling if not). Assuming I understand the Feat-gaining rules correctly (which I may not; it's not on the SRD as far as I can tell, so I'm almost guessing that it's 1 per 3 levels).

    But lots of saves? I was trying to determine what my second Spell Focus should be, and I was having a lot of trouble. Grease and Glitterdust have saves (Reflex and Will, respectively), but as far as I can tell those are my only Conjuration spells that do. Solid/Acid Fog don't, Black Tentacles don't, and Mage Armor is cast on myself.

    I was actually considering going with Enchantment for the second one. After getting Acid Fog I'd switch Solid Fog to Charm Monster, which would give me Charm Person, Charm Monster, and Dominate Monster. Also considering replacing Anti-Magic Field with Mass Suggestion - just not sure I see the point in an AMF that's centered on me. At any rate, those are all Will saves, and spells that do best against stronger (i.e. likely higher save stats) opponents than weaker ones.

    The only other spell with a save that I have (other than Illusions) is Reverse Gravity [Trans] (Reflex). I don't have any Fortitude-save spells, though I have plenty of no-save spells that should handle that (yes?).

    Unless... If I Shadow Evoke or Shadow Conjure, does the simulated spell's saving throw get affected by Spell Focus: Evocation or Conjuration, or is it still Illusion?

    As for Protection from / Magic Circle against Law, we're a band of evil and/or chaotic individuals (two NE, two CN, one CE) in a Lawful Evil town. I figure we're very likely to come into conflict with the government, and those protection spells will be useful for that. The only fight the group has had thus far has been with a Paladin. Plus, they grant immunity to possession or compulsion by anything, at least as I read it. If we end up moving away from the town, I'll swap them, though.

    Wind Wall, well, I'd just heard it was really good. Complete protection from arrows (and gases; not sure how common that's going to be) seems pretty good, even if it is "only" arrows. Still... yeah, looking again, Dispel Magic, Ray of Exhaustion, Slow, Greater Magic Weapon... lots of probably better choices.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-13 at 02:48 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    I cannot recommend Evard's Hentai Black Tentacles enough. Very good spell and ironically the best place to cast it I have found is BEHIND the front-line combat monkeys of your enemies. That way you hit all of the ranged attackers and spellcasters who can't grapple for cheese.

    The build for your Sorcerer generally looks pretty good.

    To explain the Sorcerer (Cannon) and the Sorcerer (Squirrel-Puncher) further.

    Sorcerer (Cannon) takes a lot of direct damaging spells (Scorching Ray, Magic Missile, Fireball, etc) and just pommels the crap out of anything within range that is still walking. Upside = room full of goblins just became room full of charcoal. Downside = Rogues/Assassins/Stuff with Reflex saves... they will dance all over your explosions and fillet out your kidneys.

    Sorcerer (Squirrel-Puncher) takes a lot of crippling spells (Grease, Glitterdust, Hold Person/Monster, Ray of Enfeeblement, etc) and ensures that as many of the enemies are busy barely able to walk in their armour while your guys take out their trusty "Slashy McNecksnapper" and go to town. Upside = big bad mean nasty enemy turns into bumbling moron in about 3 spells, you sit back and maybe ping a few arrows/sling bullets at him to add insult to injury. Downside = Clerics/Intelligent Undead... these things have saves that are worth it, immune to most of the stuff you're doing and then cast a pile of nasty stuff back at your party.


    It's always a good plan to have a small pile of scrolls with spells you may need but:
    a) won't need every encounter, and
    b) probably won't need more than once between trips to town


    Good call on taking the Sorcerer to start with. I started with 3.5 Wizards (after 2E Wizards... *sighs*...) but for newcomers, Sorcerers are the probably the best way into playing a "my job is to cast spells in the combat" type of character.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut1981 View Post
    I cannot recommend Evard's Hentai Black Tentacles enough. Very good spell and ironically the best place to cast it I have found is BEHIND the front-line combat monkeys of your enemies. That way you hit all of the ranged attackers and spellcasters who can't grapple for cheese.
    Enough that I should try to get it earlier? It's currently my third 4th level spell, after Solid Fog and Enervation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut1981 View Post
    The build for your Sorcerer generally looks pretty good.
    Thanks... I think I'm going to mess it up, though (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut1981 View Post
    To explain the Sorcerer (Cannon) and the Sorcerer (Squirrel-Puncher) further.

    Sorcerer (Cannon) takes a lot of direct damaging spells (Scorching Ray, Magic Missile, Fireball, etc) and just pommels the crap out of anything within range that is still walking. Upside = room full of goblins just became room full of charcoal. Downside = Rogues/Assassins/Stuff with Reflex saves... they will dance all over your explosions and fillet out your kidneys.

    Sorcerer (Squirrel-Puncher) takes a lot of crippling spells (Grease, Glitterdust, Hold Person/Monster, Ray of Enfeeblement, etc) and ensures that as many of the enemies are busy barely able to walk in their armour while your guys take out their trusty "Slashy McNecksnapper" and go to town. Upside = big bad mean nasty enemy turns into bumbling moron in about 3 spells, you sit back and maybe ping a few arrows/sling bullets at him to add insult to injury. Downside = Clerics/Intelligent Undead... these things have saves that are worth it, immune to most of the stuff you're doing and then cast a pile of nasty stuff back at your party.
    Heh, Squirrel-Puncher is definitely much more my style, methinks. Thanks for the info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut1981 View Post
    It's always a good plan to have a small pile of scrolls with spells you may need but:
    a) won't need every encounter, and
    b) probably won't need more than once between trips to town
    Will have to remember that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut1981 View Post
    Good call on taking the Sorcerer to start with. I started with 3.5 Wizards (after 2E Wizards... *sighs*...) but for newcomers, Sorcerers are the probably the best way into playing a "my job is to cast spells in the combat" type of character.
    Heh. Unfortunately, I think my preference would be for Wizard with the "my job is to cast spells, all spells"; I just don't want to deal with preparation or the relatively few spells/day of the Wizard my first time through.

    Also, I like Prestige Classes. This... is going to cost me.

    As I said, I think I'm probably going to mess up my pretty solid Sorcerer to do something a little different - namely, to get Prestige Classes some time before 15. Prestige Classes are simply more interesting to me...

    So my new tentative plan is Sor 4 / Paragon 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 5 / Sor 1.

    Cons: one lost caster level (groan), three less than ideal spells chosen (three Divinations are 0-level and I don't care, and Detect Thoughts is actually a spell I wanted anyway), one wasted feat
    Pros: a lot of skills, two bonus feats, +2 Ability bonus, +3 Hit Points, +2 on 2 of Will/Fort/Ref saves, a Bonus Language (maybe useful, maybe), at-will Identify (whatever), Int-based special Gather Information (*shrug*)

    It's basically something more interesting than Familiar improvement, fits character flavor somewhat better (though really I only came up with that flavor after thinking about this path), and interests me more.

    I end up with just Detect Undead, True Strike, and Arcane Eyes as spells that I would have rathered replace with something else.

    If my DM allows it, I may try to take another 0-level Divination (I have all of the Core ones, but there's one other I've found that's freely available on the Internet, namely Seeker's Chant) so I can get one of my higher level (probably 1st, but whatever) spells back. In the same vein, Lesser Telepathic Bond might be a better choice for 3rd level Divination than Arcane Eyes (thoughts?).

    So, new list. Now includes Feats and other bonuses. Ability bonuses are purely guesses; I know Charisma is my most important stat followed by Constitution and Dexterity, but I don't know the relative value of these. Plus Loremaster makes Intelligence... well, worth considering, anyway.

    Also, I'd be getting a Skill Focus in a Knowledge. Thoughts on which? I really have very little idea of how Knowledge comes up in game.

    And the question of my second Spell Focus is still up in the air. I have Ench down here, mostly because after Illusion it seems like the only school with significant saves to buff. Matches character flavor well too.

    My starting stats:
    Str 8
    Dex 14
    Con 14
    Int 12
    Wis 10
    Cha 16

    • Level 1 (Sor 1)
      • Improved Initiative (Human Bonus Feat)
      • Extend Spell (1st)

      Spells:
      • 0 Resistance [Abjur]
      • 0 Detect Magic [Div]
      • 0 Ghost Sound [Illus]
      • 0 Prestidigitation [Trans]
      • 1 Charm Person [Ench]
      • 1 True Strike [Div]
    • Level 2 (Sor 2)
      • 0 Detect Poison [Div]
    • Level 3 (Sor 3)
      • Heighten Spell (3rd)

      Spells:
      • 1 Grease [Conj]
    • Level 4 (Sor 4)
      • Charisma +1 (4th)

      Spells:
      • 0 Read Magic [Div]
      • 2 Glitterdust [Conj]
    • Level 5 (Sor 4 / Para 1)
      • Adaptive Learning: Diplomacy, perhaps, or maybe Use Magic Device
    • Level 6 (Sor 4 / Para 2)
      • Empower Spell (6th)
      • Skill Focus: Knowledge: (I dunno, one of em) (Paragon Bonus Feat)

      Spells:
      • 1 Detect Undead [Div]
      • 2 Detect Thoughts [Div]
    • Level 7 (Sor 4 / Para 3)
      • +2 Constitution (Paragon Bonus Ability)

      Spells:
      • 0 Mage Hand [Trans]
      • 3 Arcane Sight [Div]
    • Level 8 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 1)
      • +1 Charisma (8th)
      • Secret: Secret Health

      Spells:
      • 1 Mage Armor [Conj]
      • 2 Ray of Enfeeblement [Necro]
      • 3 Haste [Trans]
    • Level 9 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 2)
      • Skill Focus: Spellcraft (9th)
      • Lore

      Spells:
      • 0 Message [Trans]
      • 4 Solid Fog [Conj]
    • Level 10 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 3)
      • Secret: Secrets of Inner Strength

      Spells:
      • 2 Rope Trick [Trans]
      • 3 Fly [Trans]
      • 4 Enervation [Necro]
    • Level 11 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 4)
      • Bonus Language: something

      Spells:
      • 0 Arcane Mark [Univ]
      • 5 Shadow Evocation [Illus]
    • Level 12 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 5)
      • +1 Charisma (12th)
      • Spell Focus: Illusion
      • Secret: Lore of True Stamina

      Spells:
      • 3 Dispel Magic [Abjur]
      • 4 Black Tentacles [Conj]
      • 5 Teleport [Trans]
    • Level 13 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 6)
      • Greater Lore

      Spells:
      • 6 Mass Suggestion [Ench]
    • Level 14 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 7)
      • Spell Focus: Enchantment (Secret: Applicable Knowledge)

      Spells:
      • 4 Charm Monster [Ench]
      • 5 Magic Jar [Necro]
      • 6 Greater Heroism [Ench]
    • Level 15 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 1)
      • Improved Counterspelling (15th)
      • High Arcana: Spell Power

      Spells:
      • 7 Greater Shadow Conjuration [Illus]
    • Level 16 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 2)
      • +1 Charisma (16th)
      • High Arcana: Mastery of Elements

      Spells:
      • 5 Mirage Arcana [Illus]
      • 6 Veil [Illus]
      • 7 Reverse Gravity [Trans]
    • Level 17 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 3)
      • High Arcana: Mastery of Counterspelling

      Spells:
      • 8 Greater Shadow Evocation [Illus]
    • Level 18 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 4)
      • Reactive Counterspelling (18th)
      • High Arcana: Spell-like Ability

      Spells:
      • 7 Project Image [Illus]
      • 8 Scintillating Pattern [Illus]
    • Level 19 (Sor 4 / Para 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 5)
      • High Arcana: Mastery of Shaping

      Spells:
      • 9 Shades [Illus]
    • Level 20 (Sor 5 / Para 3 / Lore 7 / Arch 5)
      • +1 Charisma (20th)

      Spells:
      • 8 Mind Blank [Abjur]
      • 9 Time Stop [Trans]
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-14 at 12:48 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    If you take Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion to get into Loremaster, you can take 2 levels in Divine Oracle (CDivine)...but oh wait...thats not core. Crap. That would be perfect too, and would give you Evasion, which is always fun.

    EBT might be better to take than Solid Fog. Solid Fog is GREAT, but EBT ends encounters SOOOOO fast against certain things. Really, if you are fighting mostly medium sized foes, EBT is probably better. If you are fighting a lot of 2-3 creature large+ foes, Solid Fog is definitely the winner.

    Another funny thing. With Loremaster 4, you get a free language. There is NO restriction on what you can pick for this language. So....pick DRUIDIC! lol, then taunt those tree humping in their own language. Maybe their mother really WAS a hampster!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Heh, I must say I'm pretty thrilled with the first response. I pretty much assumed people would be like "well, you can if you really want to..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    If you take Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion to get into Loremaster, you can take 2 levels in Divine Oracle (CDivine)...but oh wait...thats not core. Crap. That would be perfect too, and would give you Evasion, which is always fun.
    Damn, that does sound good. Evasion (or the lack thereof) eliminated the Magelord option, which would have been excellent for the original incarnation of flavor-thoughts. Ohhh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    EBT might be better to take than Solid Fog. Solid Fog is GREAT, but EBT ends encounters SOOOOO fast against certain things. Really, if you are fighting mostly medium sized foes, EBT is probably better. If you are fighting a lot of 2-3 creature large+ foes, Solid Fog is definitely the winner.
    Will keep that in mind when I get that high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Another funny thing. With Loremaster 4, you get a free language. There is NO restriction on what you can pick for this language. So....pick DRUIDIC! lol, then taunt those tree humping in their own language. Maybe their mother really WAS a hampster!
    Win. My current Bonus Language is Undercommon, cuz there's a Drow in the party and I thought it'd be amusing. Adding Druidic would be perfect.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-14 at 01:18 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Damn, that does sound good. Evasion (or the lack thereof) eliminated the Magelord option, which would have been excellent for the original incarnation of flavor-thoughts. Ohhh well.
    Well, technically its not evasion. Its called Prescience Sense. Its worded exactly like evasion, minus the whole "only in light or no armor" clause. Not that that really matters for a full caster, but regardless, its not REALLY evasion, just acts as evasion. The PrC also has a d6 HD, better than your sorc or other caster PrCs.

    Not that it really matters anyway, since its in Complete Divine. lol...
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    I'm thinking either Knowledge: History or Knowledge: Local for my second Knowledge skill. History gives me +2 to my Lore checks, and Local gives me +2 to regular Gather Information checks. Not quite certain which is better.

    Nobility and Royalty strikes me as also useful (+2 Diplomacy and I could see putting the Knowledge to use), but not really very in-character, I think.

    As for my Skill Focus: Knowledge feat, Arcana seems most likely. Yay for knowing lots about magic.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-14 at 02:15 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    The big 6 are fairly simple:

    Religion - Undead
    Arcana - Magical Beasts, Dragons, Constructs
    Nature - Plants, Fey, Animals
    Dungeoneering - Abberations, Oozes
    Planes - Outsiders
    Local - Most humanoids

    Those ones you want to keep maxed, since they give you insight on the foes you fight. Consult your PHB for information on those.

    Otherwise, Knowledge skills are basically a way for your character to get more information from your DM about something. Say....you are in a cave. You inspect the cave walls and ask if you can make a Knowledge Architecture check. If your DM agrees, you roll the check, and based on the results, your DM tells you that the walls were carved by Dwarves, or naturally occuring, or shaped by magic, or something useful that might help you deduce information. Its like mini-divinations, except they don't require spell slots. The big 6 listed above are very important, and the others can be simulated with a Lore check, provided your Lore check is high enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Aha. OK, so Local seems likely then. Would it be worthwhile to get 5 in History for the +2 to Lore? Would it be worthwhile to spend a few points in the others? I'm guessing yes; the Paragon and Loremaster gain a lot of skill points (for casters), by the end of those I'll have gained 60 skill points from them. I'll want a bunch in Spellcraft, Concentration, and obviously 15 in Knowledge: Arcana and 10 in another.

    Various "talking to people" skills are also high on my list; let's take advantage of that Charisma! So Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and maybe Sense Motive would be high on my list. Gather Information seems related, too. And I want Use Magic Device, though that's lower priority. Four of those, the Loremaster doesn't get as Class Skills; I'll get one as Adaptive (probably Bluff, since it's currently my highest and likely to remain that way), but that probably means pumping the other three while I can. Unfortunately, the need to pump the two Knowledges comes first...

    What are good levels for Concentrate and Spellcraft? Spellcraft obviously needs to be at least 15; I plan on the Counterspelling feats, which means recognizing spells is eminently useful. Is 15 enough, or should I expect to need more? How about Concentrate - if I stay back, should I not have to worry about being interrupted, or will it be a big problem if I don't get Concentrate high? How high? I'm looking for "enough", generally.

    Also, just how much Bluff means you can lie your way out of damn near anything? I could potentially get 27 (Rank 23 + 4 Cha Mod + 1 Trait) Bluff without trying too hard if I choose it for my Adaptive Learning. Is that overkill? According to the SRD, it's their Sense Motive + 20 for something completely absurd; I'd get between 28 and 47 on my Bluff check, meaning on average I could beat anything with Sense Motive less than 17 (and a half, technically) - what kind of Sense Motive scores should I be expecting around 20?
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-04-14 at 03:35 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Newbie looking to play with magic

    Spells: Good point on the saves and X against law. Saves aren't as important for grease and glitterdust as they are for charm monster, because you get repeat tries on the first two and they tend to be against groups of weaker monsters. Ok go spell focus (enchantment) and keep the law spells. If you face archers every day then you can keep wind wall on your list instead of on scroll(s). It does consume a combat action though (something you want to avoid when possible), and you could also try scrolls of protection from arrows (for non-magical arrows) or gloves of arrow snatching. Heroism is nice b/c you can cast it in the morning but I'm not a big fan of greater heroism because the lower duration prevents this. Even so, if you have a buffing round and you're already done with the good spells like haste, you can dedicate that to greater heroism. Just don't spend a combat round on it; even direct damage will hurt baddies a lot more.

    Loremaster: While loremaster doesn't technically say you can't take druid as your language, I think it's implied in the system that no non-druid can learn druid. And whichever druid you learn the language from or whoever slips you a written guide (how he has time to write one unnoticed, I dunno), would be barred from druidism. The 5 ranks in history to get +2 to lore must be ranks; feats and other bonuses don't count. The same goes for pre-requisites for prestige classes; that number is the number of ranks you must have not your total modifier.

    skills: You can read the skill descriptions and find the DCs so you can get enough of each one. To boost your cha skills, try a circlet of persuasion to get a +3 for only 4500 gp. Yes, staying in back so you don't even have to make a concentration check to cast defensively is ideal when you can. And remember there are no natural 1's on skill checks. If you're gonna focus on anything like counterspelling then ya try to get spellcraft as high as possible or high enough for auto-success if you can. Otherwise skills should be a secondary priority, since they're severely limited in scope (times you can use them). And be sure to use skills only according to their scope; bluff only for telling lies, for example. Otherwise you get stupid game stuff like "He's acting like a chicken b/c I told him he was one, look at him peck." No... he just believes you're telling the truth, and that you're probably crazy or else you have a long awaken animal + polymorph story to tell him why he's human now.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-04-14 at 10:54 AM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •