Erfworld 152 - tBfGK - 139

[SomeUnregPunk]

Yes, it's a boring "aside," but I feel compelled to state that I doubt that the casters got points for the volcano's kills, just as Wanda didn't level continuously from all the action her uncroaked saw or Sizemore didn't level from the battles fought by his golems.

I guess I figured the volcano being uncroaked is just like a really nifty trap not something like one of Wanda's zombie units.

Why is Wanda on Stanley's side? How did Stanley receive the Hammer? He proclaims he got it from the Titans ... is that literal and if it is, does that mean that is why Wanda is following Stanley because she either witnessed it or she is using him for her own ends?

[DevilDan]

How do you know Sizemore didn't level? Or Wanda for that matter? Bogroll levelling was only mentioned as proof Ansom was dead.

What does Bogroll, a non-caster, have to do with golems and uncroaked?

If they did level, I guess Maggie might have also leveled. But I've no proof either way that they gained any experience save from the actual casting of the croakamancy-dirtamancy spell, assuming that casting itself grants experience.

Why is Wanda on Stanley's side?

It seems that she was a Faq unit; now she is In Stanley's employ (though not under a thinkamantical compulsion to obey him, apparently).

[glissle]

I doubt anyone leveled for the zombcano, because they withdrew from the battlefield before the Coalition was wiped out - if it was wiped out. (I'm hoping to see Scarlett again.)

Odd that they could use the magic portal on someone else's turn - either it doesn't count as moving between hexes, or perhaps they won't actually arrive in the Magic Kingdom until the beginning of GK's turn and right now they're immaterial.

[ryos]

Mmmm....roast peep.

[Kreistor]

What does Bogroll, a non-caster, have to do with golems and uncroaked?

Initially, I mentioned him as a bit of a straw man. I know ther eis only one place where anyone was mentioned to gain a level, and that's Bogroll. I was merely heading off any claim by you that they didn't level because it isn't stated by anyone that they levelled. Bogroll's levelling served a story purpose,, so it was mentioned.

But it also is useful in defusing this...

If they did level, I guess Maggie might have also leveled. But I've no proof either way that they gained any experience save from the actual casting of the croakamancy-dirtamancy spell, assuming that casting itself grants experience.

Why did Bogroll gain experience when he didn't deal the damage that killed Ansom? Ansom died from hitting the ground, and though Bogroll was responsible for him falling, Bogroll didn't pick up the Erf and hit Ansom with it. That's parallel to Sizemore in this. Sizemore doesn't cast a spell to deal damage in the last frame, but he is responsible for pulling the finger of the golem and causing it to explode. If Bogroll gains experience, Sizemore should have. But we don't see anyone gain experience, ever. Not Ansom killing zombie Manpower, Jillian killing dwagons, or Parson killing a Wiener-Rammer.

I'm not saying that the trio gained exp from the volcano erupting, because yes, they retreated from the fight, and we know you have to win the fight in order to gain exp.

[Sarissofoi]

Bogroll kill Ansom by body contact.

[Arkaim]

Perhaps Bogroll got experience because erfworld decided he defeated Ansom in the tower zone where there were no other units. So, it counted as a victory for him.

[Pointyleaf]

You have a dirty mind.

What else can you expect from a dirtamancer/thinkamancer hookup? *Of course* you get a dirty mind.

[ishnar]

For me, I found panel 3 the most interesting. Caesar is controlling Jillian and not even breaking a sweat, and Jillian is no slouch. STR is apparently unrelated to leadership, but considering how she fights I'd expect Caesar to have a bit more trouble.

Consider also how hard Stanley repulsed Caesar when Caesar came in full bore.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Consider also how hard Stanley repulsed Caesar when Caesar came in full bore.

Van de Graafs are serious business. They used to make atom smashers out of those.

[Kreistor]

Van de Graafs are serious business. They used to make atom smashers out of those.

But are more commonly known as a cool parlour trick in high school physics classes and science museums.

[DevilDan]

Initially, I mentioned him as a bit of a straw man. I know ther eis only one place where anyone was mentioned to gain a level, and that's Bogroll. I was merely heading off any claim by you that they didn't level because it isn't stated by anyone that they levelled. Bogroll's levelling served a story purpose,, so it was mentioned.

What a high opinion you have of me.

Sizemore doesn't cast a spell to deal damage in the last frame, but he is responsible for pulling the finger of the golem and causing it to explode. If Bogroll gains experience, Sizemore should have. But we don't see anyone gain experience, ever. Not Ansom killing zombie Manpower, Jillian killing dwagons, or Parson killing a Wiener-Rammer.

Erf is a game world. "Experience," like leveling, isn't a physical process; experience points aren't something like aether, something that can be seen, felt, bottled, or blocked. It's an adjustment of stats, one of those intrinsic qualities of beings of Erf for which we have no parallel. Gaining experience isn't something transferred by contact or that makes any sort of mechanical or scientific sense: it follows game rules. And in many games, whoever last dealt damage or attacked a unit that later dies as a direct result of that encounter will gain the experience.

[Walpurgisborn]

Cool beans, how did I post to two people in one post??

Magically, it seems, since you can not understand the mechanism behind it.

[Welf]

Erf is a game world. "Experience," like leveling, isn't a physical process;

We don't know that; i.e. an increased strength stat could indeed mean that the muscles grow or become more efficient; better AT/DEF could mean that someone gets faster, or even that his brain changes and increases his mental abilities.

[BillyJimBoBob]

BTW: Blood exists in Erfworld. And not just as red showing in wounds. It spatters.

[Kreistor]

"Experience," like leveling, isn't a physical process; experience points aren't something like aether, something that can be seen, felt, bottled, or blocked.

Really? How do you know this? Why can't someone know his own experience or how close he is to levelling? We don't have rules, and we do have a complete lack of evidence, as to how experience and levelling works. Maggie can tell Bogroll levelled (twice), but is that part of a spell, or could she tell by looking at him normally? We simply don't know, and Occam's Razor doesn't help when the assumptions on both sides are equally numerous.

[fendrin]

BTW: Blood exists in Erfworld. And not just as red showing in wounds. It spatters.

I don't see any blood on that page. Are you thinking that the pink marks on Wanda's outfit are bloodstains? If th tis the case then I disagree, as Wanda was not wearing that outfit when interrogating Jillian. Even if it had, cleansing happens at dawn, which occured between the interrogation and the 'relaxing'.

[DevilDan]

We don't know that; i.e. an increased strength stat could indeed mean that the muscles grow or become more efficient; better AT/DEF could mean that someone gets faster, or even that his brain changes and increases his mental abilities.

Obviously "level" has some correlation with physical reality in Erf; after all, one can "see" a unit's level, just as one can see its special abilities. "Experience," on the other hand, may be a much less concrete concept.

Really? How do you know this? Why can't someone know his own experience or how close he is to levelling? We don't have rules, and we do have a complete lack of evidence, as to how experience and levelling works. Maggie can tell Bogroll levelled (twice), but is that part of a spell, or could she tell by looking at him normally? We simply don't know, and Occam's Razor doesn't help when the assumptions on both sides are equally numerous. That said, it's not unreasonable to assume that Erf's rules will continue to have strong parallels with games on Earth.

My main point is that I don't think we can assume much about how experience is implemented/manifested in a "real game-world" like Erf. Knowing the author, there may really be a set of specific rules for how experience is gained that covers scenarios like arming an explosive golem, dropping a guy off the tower and all the way to the inner courtyard, etc. But we can safely assume that there's more than meets the eye, and that includes the idea that experience doesn't come merely from killing a unit with a sword, arrow, or fireball.

[SteveMB]

BTW: Blood exists in Erfworld. And not just as red showing in wounds. It spatters.

That's a print pattern -- it's more evident on the blowup pic.

[Welf]

It's Wanda - it could be a print pattern made of blood.

[Kreistor]

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