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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default [3.5]Using the 2ed XP table to make campaigns in my homebrewed setting more in depth?

    Hi again,

    I am sorry for making so many threads lately. I have just been needing some help lately, and now I am trying to out the finishing touches on my homebrewed multiverse before it hopefully starts back up this month.

    Anyway, I know some old-timers have told me that it took forever to level in 2ed D&D, but from what I have heard it seems that "slower" progression in the game allowed for more in depth stories, campaigns, and groups/parties. I feel that the 3.x XP system causes PCs to level too quickly to ever truly get into their characters (both for the players and the DM), or to allow the game to be more personal. It believe it is clearly meant for the hack-and slash style of gaming D&D was becoming (and has finally become, but that is another matter...).

    I have heard older players tell stories on here about campaigns their old groups had played which lasted years in out-of-game time, which followed the heroic stories and exploits of their characters throughout various adventures and campaigns. To me such stories send shivers down my spine, and make me wish I had played in what I consider the golden age of fantasy and RPGs.

    In 3.x in the course of a single adventure, campaign, or even module your character can go from level 1 to level 20 in what amounts to as little as a few weeks in-game time. It just doesn't leave room or time for the game to become a journey that tells the story(ies) of a great hero or group of heroes.

    For example, I have played numerous characters who's goal were to conquer or establish their own community/town/tribe/kingdom/nation/etc, but in the quick hack-and-slash system of 3.x there is simply no room or time for such things. In fact, it is usually a problem for the DMs and groups. I have only had one DM who was nice enough to try and accommodate my PC's goals into the story, but even then there was not much room for it. There does not seem to be much room for any character goals or plots in the quick 3.x system, except for the sole "I need to kill xxxx BBEG NPC to avenge xxx!" one, since the whole goal of the game is to kill the BBEG anyway.

    However, from what I understand the older 2ed longer/slower XP system allowed for such things. I have even heard of a PC not only founding his own town/city, but managing to have a colossal statue be created semi-nearby of himself facing and smiling at settlement in the Buddy Jesus pose. That is is the style of game I have always wanted to play. :(


    Oh, and I have also made my multiverse low-wealth, and low-magic. I was already in need of a way to balance character leveling with their current equivalent CR and such.

    I was originally planning to run the game in a style where I award character goal and achievement XP, rather than XP for CRs in each battle. This was for the same reason of "slowing" things down to a more personal and in depth level, as well as trying to personally keep track of where I thought the PCs were in terms of their power level and equipment (again low-wealth and low-magic).

    The problem I was afraid of having with this is that one member of my gaming group is quite a rules-lawyer, and as another member of my group has pointed out to me "He needs concrete mechanics to follow to function and be happy". I figure with a set XP table things would be more concrete, and I would get said player off my back a bit. I believe in taking a very Rule 0 approach to DMing, which I love, and the rest of the group seemed to enjoy, but which caused a lot of conflict with the above mentioned player.

    Plus, with the personal monitoring of my players/PCs and the person goals and achievements plan it would require a lot more work and planning from my part. However, with a set XP table I run the risk of the PCs advancing to quickly into levels they are not ready for, or remaining at a level they might already be too powerful for.



    Anyway, I am sorry for the long post. I guess there was a whole lot more running around in my head that I had realized. If you read it all, many thanks!


    As always, thank you in advance for any help!
    Last edited by newbDM; 2009-04-04 at 10:54 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5]Using the 2ed XP table to make campaigns in my homebrewed setting more in de

    If you're the DM, you can just tell the players when they level up, whenever you feel appropriate. If the players don't like it, too bad for them. Unless they REALLY don't like it, and aren't having fun, in which case you probably shouldn't do it. Still, if you just want slower leveling, then just cut all XP awarded in half, or by whatever percent you want. As long as your players are having fun, you can do pretty much anything you want as DM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5]Using the 2ed XP table to make campaigns in my homebrewed setting more in de

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPaper View Post
    If you're the DM, you can just tell the players when they level up, whenever you feel appropriate. If the players don't like it, too bad for them. Unless they REALLY don't like it, and aren't having fun, in which case you probably shouldn't do it. Still, if you just want slower leveling, then just cut all XP awarded in half, or by whatever percent you want. As long as your players are having fun, you can do pretty much anything you want as DM.
    Heh, I wish it was that easy.

    That player simply won't take no for an answer. And our gaming group is pretty tight, with us playing together for about two years now I believe. So I can not simply tell him "OK, good bye.". Problems with him are what actually caused me to quit my campaign world the first time I ran it.

    As far as he is concerned, he can overrule me on a important decisions (such as my world being low-magic), though he offered to "provide ideas for other ways to handle magic". That was in a reply to an email I sent out about two weeks asking everybody to read my houserules, and it still has me steamed.

    And the thing is that the rest of the group told me they were having fun.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Using the 2ed XP table to make campaigns in my homebrewed setting more in de

    You really need to stand up to that guy and tell him to just accept your decisions, as you're the DM. He needs to stop trying to overrule you and stop disrupting the game.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Using the 2ed XP table to make campaigns in my homebrewed setting more in de

    Quote Originally Posted by newbDM View Post
    As far as he is concerned, he can overrule me on a important decisions (such as my world being low-magic), though he offered to "provide ideas for other ways to handle magic".
    This is unacceptable as a DM. He can be given leeway long as it concerns his PC or the whole party, but there's no effing way he can object to your gameworld. When DM says humans only, or low magic, or epic level, or no alignments that's the end of it. DM is the one doing most of the work, so has the right to exercise rule 0. Only if/when most/all players object and refuse the game rule 0 fails. Which isn't the case here.

    Tell him to shape up.


    And the whole point of ADnD tables is acknowledging that classes aren't equal. What 3E designers were smoking when they thought they could make ADnD's classes all equivalent at equal levels I don't know. They were so sure they could, they also added the whole CR system. A further eff up is the rule of thumb that says "PCs should level after x encounters of their CR", which is exactly what your player is trying to do on a grander scale (messing with DM's control over critical aspects). Percieved slow progression (when looked at from a 3E POW) is a side effect of this.
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