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Thread: Variant Ranger

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

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    Default Variant Ranger

    Updated as of Monday, July 6th, 2009, 12:34 pm.




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Ranger~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ranger
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Deadly Strike +1d6, Track, Wild Trait, Wilderness Trapfinding
    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Aspect
    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +1, Uncanny Dodge
    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Aspect, Wild Trait
    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Deadly Strike +2d6
    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Aspect
    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +2, Evasion
    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Aspect, Wild Trait
    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Deadly Strike +3d6
    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Aspect
    11th|
    +11
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +3, Quick to Arms
    12th|
    +12
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Aspect, Wild Trait
    13th|
    +13
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Deadly Strike +4d6
    14th|
    +14
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Aspect
    15th|
    +15
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +4, Improved Uncanny Dodge
    16th|
    +16
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Aspect, Wild Trait
    17th|
    +17
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Deadly Strike +5d6
    18th|
    +18
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Aspect
    19th|
    +19
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +5, Improved Evasion
    20th|
    +20
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Aspect, Wild Trait[/table]

    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Dice: d10.
    Base Attack: Good.
    Saves: Good Fortitude, Good Reflex, Poor Willpower.

    Class Skills
    A rangers class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int Modifier) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int Modifier.


    Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor and shields (Except tower shields).

    Deadly Strike (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger learns to greatly injure and wound his foes. Anytime a rangers target is denied his dexterity bonus to armor or is flat footed, the rangers attack does +1d6 extra damage. At 5th level, it does an additional +1d6 damage. This bonus damage is increased by +1d6 every four levels thereafter. Ranged attacks only do bonus damage if the target is within 30 ft. A ranger can only strike a living creature with a discernible anatomy. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also invulnerable to this bonus damage. This extra damage stacks with similar special attacks, such as a rogues sneak attack.

    Track: At 1st level, the ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.

    Wild Trait: At 1st level, the ranger gains a Wild Trait from the list below. He may select an additional trait at 4th level and every four levels thereafter. A trait cannot be selected more than once.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    Bloodhound (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Survival checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he also gains the Scent ability out to a range of 30 feet.

    Dolphin's Grace (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Swim checks, and gains a Swim speed equal to his base land speed. In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    Rabbit's Legs (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Jump checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he only needs to move 10 feet to gain the benefits of a running start for any jump check.

    Ferret's Tenacity (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Tumble checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he may charge in situations where others cannot. He may charge over difficult terrain that normally slows movement or allies blocking his path. This ability enables the ranger to run down steep stairs, leap down from a ledge, or to tumble over tables to get to his target. Depending on the circumstance, he may still need to make appropriate checks (Jump or Tumble checks, in particular) to successfully move over the terrain.

    Hawk' Eyes (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Spot checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he only takes a -1 penalty to Spot checks per 20 feet of distance of the target, and the iterative penalty for increasing range increments to range attacks is lowered to -1.

    Monkey's Grip (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus on Climb checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he gains a Climb speed equal to his base land speed.

    Panther's Step (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Move Silently checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, you can walk without leaving behind any but the most subtle marks. The Survival DC to track you increases by 5 (or 10 if you move at half speed to hide your trail), and you ignore any penalties on your Move Silently checks incurred by noisy or very noisy terrain.

    Raven's Cunning (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Craft checks when constructing an object entirely out of natural materials (such as stone, wood, plant, poison, or animal parts, but excluding metal or glass), he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, when making such a craft check you do not need to expend any cost for resources, and may make progress by the day in silver pieces, and progress by the week in gold pieces.

    Snake's Prowl (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Hide checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

    Turtle's Stability (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Balance checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, he gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground.

    Wolf's Ears (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Listen checks, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so. In addition, the ranger can use Listen to notice the presence of an invisible creature (generally opposed by a Move Silently check). If the character beats the DC by 10 or more, he or she can pinpoint the location of the invisible creature, though it still maintains total concealment from the character.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~


    Wilderness Trapfinding (Ex): At 1st level the ranger can use the Search skill to locate and disarm wilderness traps or traps without complicated moving parts when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. He may use the Survival skill to disarm such traps. If he beats a trap's DC by 10 or more with a Survival check he can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.

    Aspect of the Hunter: At 2nd level, the ranger gains a Aspect from the list below. He may select an additional aspect at 4th level and every two levels thereafter. A aspect cannot be selected more than once unless it states otherwise.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    Armored Mobility (Ex): The ranger's armor check penalties and maximum dexterity from worn armor are both improved by two, and medium armor worn by the ranger is treated as light armor for the purpose of movement and running capabilities. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

    Communion (Ex): The ranger may Speak with Animals or Plants as the spell at will as an extraordinary ability. His caster level is equal to his ranger level.

    Deadly Aim (Ex): The ranger may apply precision based effects and abilities to a range attack out to a range equal to his weapons range increment, or 30 feet, whichever is greater. This includes precision based effects of feats as well. Examples include Deadly Strike, Point Blank Shot, and Sneak Attack.

    Extended Range (Ex): After all multipliers have been applied, a ranger adds 20 feet to the range increment of bows or crossbows, and 10 feet to throwing weapons she uses. This ability may be selected multiple times, its effects stack.

    Fast Movement (Ex): A ranger gains a +10 foot enhancement bonus to her base land speed. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. This ability may be selected multiple times, its effects stack.

    Favored Enemy (Ex): Choose a creature type. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, and appropriate Knowledge checks when using these skills against creatures of this type, and he gets a +2 bonus on damage rolls against such creatures. Available enemies are: Aberration, Animal, Construct, Dragon, Elemental, Fey, Giant, Humanoid (subtype), Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid, Ooze, Outsider (subtype), Plant, Undead, and Vermin. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time choosing a new type of creature. Each time the ranger selects a Favored ability, all previously selected bonuses of all Favored abilities increase by two.

    Favored Rival (Ex): Choose a organization. The ranger gains +2 bonus on Bluff, Decipher Script, Intimidate, Gather Information, Knowledge (Geography and Local), and Sense Motive checks, made against and pertaining to known affiliations of that organization, along with +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class bonus against members of this group. Available rivals are: Country's (subtype), Churches (subtype), Governments (subtype), Guilds (subtype), Houses (subtype), Organizations (subtype). This ability may be selected multiple times, each time choosing a new type of organization. Each time the ranger selects a Favored ability, all previously selected bonuses of all Favored abilities increase by two.

    Favored Terrain (Ex): Choose a terrain type. The ranger gains a +2 bonus to Climb, Hide, Knowledge (Dungeoneering and Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, and Survival checks, as well as +2 bonus on attack rolls made within his favored kind of terrain. Available terrains are: Arctic, Deserts, Forests, Hills, Mountains, Plains, Planar (subtype), Skies, Seas, Swamps, Underground, and Urban. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time choosing a new type of terrain. Each time the ranger selects a Favored ability, all previously selected bonuses of all Favored abilities increase by two.

    Greater Wild Soul (Sp): A ranger gains the abilities to cast more advanced natural spells. He may select a 2nd level spell from the druid's spell list. He may cast this ability two times per day with a caster level equal to his ranger level. The DC of this ability is based on his Wisdom. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time selecting a new spell to learn. This ability requires the ranger to have a Wisdom score of at least 12, and has previously selected Wild Soul.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): A ranger can use the Hide skill even while being observed in any sort of natural terrain. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

    Improved Deadly Strike (Ex): The ranger gains an additional +1d6 damage to his Deadly Strike ability. This ability may be selected multiple times.

    Improved Wilderness Trapfinding (Ex): A ranger that comes within 10 ft. of a trap within the boundaries of the wilderness trapfinding ability may make a search check as if he was actively searching for it.

    Lesser Wild Soul (Sp): A ranger gains the abilities to cast some basic natural spells. He may select a number of cantrips from the druid's spell list equal to his wisdom modifier (minimum 1). He may cast these spells at will as spell-like abilities with a caster level equal to the rangers level. The DC of these abilities are based on Wisdom. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time selecting new cantrips to learn. This ability requires the ranger to have a Wisdom score of at least 11.

    Major Wild Soul (Sp): A ranger gains the abilities to cast more advanced natural spells. He may select a 3rd level spell from the druid's spell list. He may cast this ability twice per day with a caster level equal to his ranger level. The DC of this ability is based on his Wisdom. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time selecting a new spell to learn. In addition, he gains an additional use of all other spell-like abilities gained from Wild Soul, Greater Wild Soul and Major Wild Soul each day. This ability requires the ranger to have a Wisdom score of at least 13, and has previously selected Greater Wild Soul.

    Natural Prodigy (Sp): A ranger gains the abilities to cast more advanced natural spells. He may select a 4th level spell from the druid's spell list. He may cast this ability twice per day with a caster level equal to his ranger level. The DC of this ability is based on his Wisdom. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time selecting a new spell to learn. In addition, he gains an additional use of all other spell-like abilities gained from Wild Soul, Greater Wild Soul and Major Wild Soul each day. This ability requires the ranger to have a Wisdom score of at least 14, and has previously selected Major Wild Soul.

    Swift Stride (Ex): A ranger can move through any sort of terrain that slows movement (such as undergrowth, rubble, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. This ability does not let her move more quickly through terrain that requires a Climb or Swim check to navigate, nor can she move more quickly through terrain or undergrowth that has been magically manipulated to impede motion. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

    Swift Tracker (Ex): A ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. He takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

    Trackless Step (Ex): A ranger leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

    Wild Empathy (Ex): A ranger can use body language, vocalizations, and demeanor to improve the attitude of an animal (such as a bear or monitor lizard). This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma Bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use Wild Empathy, the ranger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a -4 penalty on the check.

    Wild Healing (Ex): A ranger with at least 1 rank in Survival can use natural materials found in the wilderness to heal wounds. The ranger makes a DC 15 Survival check representing 1 hour of searching for and preparing roots, rare leaves, berries, and other such materials for a natural bew or poultice. Once the subject ingests or applies the concoction (As appropriate), the ranger makes a DC 10 Heal check. The subject recovers 1d4 hit points, plus an additional 1d4 hit points for every 5 points by which the result exceeds 10. Wild healing affects a single subject per attempt, and the same subject benefits from the concoction only once per day equal to the rangers Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).

    Wild Soul (Sp): A ranger gains the abilities to cast more advanced natural spells. He may select a 1st level spell from the druid's spell list. He may cast this ability two times per day with a caster level equal to his ranger level. The DC of this ability is based on his Wisdom. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time selecting a new spell to learn. This ability requires the ranger to have a Wisdom score of at least 11, and has previously selected Lesser Wild Soul.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~


    Bonus Feats: At 3rd level, and then again at 7th level and every four levels thereafter, a ranger gains a bonus feat, which must be selected from the following list: Acrobatic, Agile, Agile Athlete, Alertness, Ambidextrous, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Brachiation, Combat Expertise, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Far Shot, Great Fortitude. Greater Weapon Focus, Hear the Unseen, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Improved Swimming, Improved Weapon Focus, Incredible Ambidexterity, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Manyshot, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Quick Reconnoiter, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Self-Sufficient, Shadow, Shot on the Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Track, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus. She must meet all the prerequisites for the feat.

    Danger Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, the ranger gains a +1 bonus on Initiative checks and on spot checks made to notice other creatures at the beginning of an encounter. At 7th level and every four levels thereafter these bonuses improve by one, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a ranger can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

    Evasion (Ex): At 7th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Quick to Arms (Ex): At 11th level, the ranger knows full well to keep an eye open when he sleeps, and on the rare occasions he is surprised at all, he is quick to react. The ranger gains his wisdom modifier (if positive) as a bonus to initiative checks in addition to his dexterity bonus (if any), and may rise from a prone position as a swift action that does not draw attacks of opportunity. A ranger loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. The ranger no longer takes penalties on listen checks while sleeping.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 15th level and higher, a ranger can no longer be flanked. This defense denies another ranger or rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more ranger or rogue levels than the target does ranger levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum ranger or rogue level required to flank the character.

    Improved Evasion (Ex): Starting at 19th level, this ability works like evasion, except that while the rogue still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
    Last edited by Jane_Smith; 2009-07-08 at 07:10 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    I like some of this, but there are a couple problems.
    A) Favored X. This still sucks. It's too situational, and unless you get the bonuses from all three, it's not a large enough bonus to warrant being to situational. You might want to look here for ways to make it more substantial. The only real exception here is Favored Terrain, and even that's not regular enough.

    B) Dead Levels. Right now your 10th, 16th, and 19th levels give you nothing, which is really noticeable due to other levels giving several abilities. The first two are pretty easy to solve: just drop Hide in Plain Sight down a level and drop either Swift stalker down 2 levels or Improved Wilderness Trapfinding down 1. Not really sure what to do with the 19th's level, though, which brings us to the next problem of...

    C)Capstones. You need one. And no, a bonus feat doesn't really count, especially one off a rather restricted list.

    D) Bonus Feat list. There are 3 main problems. First of all, there's no feat called Ambidexterity/Incredible Ambidexterity in 3.5. Secondly, a ranger can't even qualify for some feats on the chain, as they aren't fighters/lack an ability to take fighter feats. Thirdly, many combat styles aren't represented in the list, of course that could be intentional.

    E) Trapfinding. This is a non-ability, and what's worse is that it only works in the wilderness. Plus, you don't get it till 3rd level. The later improved ability is very nice, however.

    G) This is less of an issue than an observation, but this seems more like a Ranger/Rouge/scout than anything else. Not sure if this is intentional or not.

    H) Deadly Strike. I dislike the 30ft limit, as archery already suffers enough. Not quite sure what to replace it with.

    Also, I'd suggest using one of the tables located here, as it looks better. In fact, here's what it currently looks like:
    Spoiler
    Show
    RANGER
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Deadly Strike +1d6, Favored X, Track

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Bonus Feat, Wild Empathy

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Endurance, Wilderness Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Fast Movement

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Deadly Strike +2d6, Trackless Step, Bonus Feat

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Evasion, Quick to Arms, Favored X

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Swift Stride

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Swift Tracker, Bonus Feat

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Deadly Strike +3d6, Improved Uncanny Dodge

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |

    11th|
    +11
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Improved Wilderness Trapfinding, Bonus Feat

    12th|
    +12
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Favored X, Swift Stalker

    13th|
    +13
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Deadly Strike +4d6, Improved Quick to Arms

    14th|
    +14
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat

    15th|
    +15
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Camouflage

    16th|
    +16
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |

    17th|
    +17
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Deadly Strike +5d6, Hide in Plain Sight, Bonus Feat

    18th|
    +18
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Favored X

    19th|
    +19
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |

    20th|
    +20
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat[/table]

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    First of all, welcome to the forums. I hope that you enjoy your time here.

    Second of all, you need a table for your class fix. Here you go, enjoy:
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Deadly Strike, Hunting Grounds, Track
    2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Bonus Feat, Wild Empathy
    3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Endurance, Wilderness Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge
    4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Fast Movement
    5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat, Trackless Step
    6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Evasion, Quick to Arms
    7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Swift Stride
    8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat, Swift Tracker
    9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3|Improved Uncanny Dodge
    10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|--
    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3|Bonus Feat, Improved Wilderness Trapfinding
    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Swift Stalker
    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4|Improved Quick to Arms
    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus Feat
    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5|Camouflage
    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|--
    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Bonus Feat, Hide in Plain Sight
    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|--
    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|--
    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat[/table]

    Thirdly, upon looking at this table, this class is lopsided as hell. You have many, MANY abilities in the first few levels, which then tapers off to almost nothing towards the end. I mean, after 17th level, there's no reason to take another level in this class (& even then, it's a stretch to justify). This class, as you've designed it, it the ultimate dip class: take a couple levels, then ditch it for something better before the suck creeps in. I'd suggest spreading out some of those gnarly powers, moving them to the dead levels.

    Lastly, I'd also cut the BAB to 3/4th's HD, but that's just me. At any rate, good to see you, & welcome aboard.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

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    To meklor;

    A) I dont want it to be to overpowered. Its for fluff mostly, and a small edge. Stacking it can be quite effective when you can get a top of +5 to all attacks, damage, and dodge to AC against some creatures, not even mentioning the tons of skill bonuses.

    B) Hmm.. your right, i should try to fill those in with -something-... dunno what though >.<.

    C) Maybe an ability that lets a ranger take 10 on specific checks, like skill mastery, for Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Search and Survival like "Survival Mastery" at level 20?

    D) I am not just making classes. I am also reworking all the feats, adding some, removing some, changing them, etc. Here is a preview;

    Ambidexterity (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisites: Dex 13.
    Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand by 6.

    Two-Weapon Fighting (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Base Attack +6.
    Benefit: When making a full attack, you can make as many attacks with your off-hand weapon as with your primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. You still take normal penalties for two-weapon fighting (See Ambidexterity above).

    Incredible Ambidexterity (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisite: Ambidexterity, Strength 13, Dexterity 13.
    Benefit: The penalty for two-weapon fighting is reduced by 1 for each hand (minimum 0). In addition, you may apply your full strength modifier to damage rolls made with your off-hand.

    E) I didn't wish to give the whole thing in just 1 level, that's why i split it in half... >< In all respects, its Trapfinding, but wilderness only. Maybe I could make it basic Trapfinding? But then id feel like it was treading to much on rogue territory, why would a ranger be skilled in detecting mechanical traps?

    G) Ranger is, in theory, a hybid of barbarian and rogue is it not? Wild, and skilled.

    H) Deadly strike is limited to 30 feet because it is, in essence, a sneak attack, and rangers do not naturally specialize in archery, some could be purely melee based. However, have no fear, again, feats have you covered;

    Sniper Shot (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
    Benefit: As a full round action, you may make an attack that allows you to deal precision-bsed extra damage to a distance equal to your weapon's range increment. You may only make this attack with bows and crossbows. Precision-based damage includes sneak attacks, a ranger's hunting ground's favored enemy bonus, and the damage bonus from the Point Blank Shot feat. Creatures immune to critical hits and sneak attacks are immune to this extra damage as normal.

    And, alas, i didnt know how to use the table. Thank you for linking.


    To Zeta Kai;

    Actually the first table was more accurate, their is only 3 empty levels. Most of the rangers abilities do scale. I do agree, the 'spread' could be changed and their does need 'crowning' ability at 20 to keep people wanting more.

    And why cutt the bab? Rangers are known for their accuracy and speed, base attack bonus kinda represents that. They are martial types, after all. This isnt a scout, this is a ranger. Their trained to fight, kill, hunt and defending their homes!



    ------Edited Above;

    Updated, 0 empty levels! :3 Added Armored Mobility for 13th, 16th, and 19th level, and Survival Mastery for a crown-ability.
    Last edited by Jane_Smith; 2009-04-05 at 11:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    A) I dont want it to be to overpowered. Its for fluff mostly, and a small edge. Stacking it can be quite effective when you can get a top of +5 to all attacks, damage, and dodge to AC against some creatures, not even mentioning the tons of skill bonuses.
    Still, way to situational to be useful. I guess if it's just meant to be a fluff ability it's okay, but then we get the question of why even have it, and why is this still called a ranger if the only real ranger quality you keep is relagated to a fluff role?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    C) Maybe an ability that lets a ranger take 10 on specific checks, like skill mastery, for Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Search and Survival like "Survival Mastery" at level 20?
    Eh. Not really that impressive, epesially since it only matters during combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    D) I am not just making classes. I am also reworking all the feats, adding some, removing some, changing them, etc. Here is a preview;

    Ambidexterity (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisites: Dex 13.
    Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand by 6.

    Two-Weapon Fighting (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Base Attack +6.
    Benefit: When making a full attack, you can make as many attacks with your off-hand weapon as with your primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. You still take normal penalties for two-weapon fighting (See Ambidexterity above).

    Incredible Ambidexterity (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisite: Ambidexterity, Strength 13, Dexterity 13.
    Benefit: The penalty for two-weapon fighting is reduced by 1 for each hand (minimum 0). In addition, you may apply your full strength modifier to damage rolls made with your off-hand.
    I'd fold Ambidexterity and TWF into the same feat. TWF is sub-par enough as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    E) I didn't wish to give the whole thing in just 1 level, that's why i split it in half... >< In all respects, its Trapfinding, but wilderness only. Maybe I could make it basic Trapfinding? But then id feel like it was treading to much on rogue territory, why would a ranger be skilled in detecting mechanical traps?
    I'm not really sure what you're saying in that first sentence. I think that the Improved version is a decent ability for the mid-levels, my beef is that trapfinding is a bad ability(if you have ranks in search, you should be able to find any trap). Plus, getting it a 3rd level means that if you were meant to fulfill the trap role of a party, you can't do it for a while, and that's bad design. If a class is meant to fill a role, they should be able to do it from first level to some degree. Giving them regular trapfinding at level 1 wouldn't really infringe on the rouge's abilities, though I think the later ability should be kept wilderness only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    G) Ranger is, in theory, a hybid of barbarian and rogue is it not? Wild, and skilled.
    No. It's a Druid/Primary fighter, similar to a Paladin. Or at least, that's what it is in core. You can change that if you wish, but be aware that you're changing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    H) Deadly strike is limited to 30 feet because it is, in essence, a sneak attack, and rangers do not naturally specialize in archery, some could be purely melee based. However, have no fear, again, feats have you covered;

    Sniper Shot (General, Fighter)
    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
    Benefit: As a full round action, you may make an attack that allows you to deal precision-bsed extra damage to a distance equal to your weapon's range increment. You may only make this attack with bows and crossbows. Precision-based damage includes sneak attacks, a ranger's hunting ground's favored enemy bonus, and the damage bonus from the Point Blank Shot feat. Creatures immune to critical hits and sneak attacks are immune to this extra damage as normal.

    And, alas, i didnt know how to use the table. Thank you for linking.
    AHHHHHHHHH. You've nerfed the Favored enemy again. It's not really meant to be precision damage. Also, the above doesn't seem to really give enough damage to be worthwhile, especially compared to monster HP. And giving it a range limitation because some might not be ranged seems really convoluted. Is there any reason that having a higher range limit would limit melee based builds?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    To Zeta Kai;

    And why cutt the bab? Rangers are known for their accuracy and speed, base attack bonus kinda represents that. They are martial types, after all. This isnt a scout, this is a ranger. Their trained to fight, kill, hunt and defending their homes!
    Well, the problem is that you gave them many abilities appropriate for a scout/rogue, and they already were pretty roguish. To tell the truth, this seems much more roguish/scoutish, so I can see where he's coming from. Really, there's nothing left of the PHB ranger's primary abilities(Combat styles, animal companion, spells, favored enemy), except one minor thing relegated to fluff duty.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Hmm, your right about the damage from favored enemy.. -rebuffs that and makes it untyped damage- >>

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    I'm gonna say this again, but in this thread this time. As of now, you've nerfed all precision damage to a ridiculous degree by giving everyone Uncanny Dodge. This essentially means that Rouges never get SA past level 9, and only against flanked targets after level 3. In Fact, the ranger ability is strictly better because it works against Flatfooted targets, and thus would still apply. This is especially egrieous due to the insanely buffed Improved Uncanny Dodge you've given out(there's no way around it). This applies to all of your current class fixes.

    Oh, and if you're worried about stepping on the rouges toes, the deadly Strike ability is the real killer.
    Last edited by MeklorIlavator; 2009-04-06 at 01:12 AM.

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    Just for the record, I am of the opinion that Dead Levels aren't the worst thing in the world. Personally, I feel that 1-2 abilities every friggin' level clutters up the interface and makes it difficult for the player. If you have more than 5, you may want to fill stuff in. But don't feel like you have to give an ability every level if you think they look fine without it.

    I know MeklorIlavator feels otherwise, though

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    My problem was more the fact that you got a tone of stuff for the first 7 or so levels, and then not that much afterwards. Thus, it's very front loaded, which is always poor design.

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    tongue Re: Variant Ranger

    I like a lot of your designing for the Ranger class, but to be honest, I think your build suffers from what I'd like to call "Complete Archivist Syndrome".

    The Archivist is a Divine Spellcasting Base Class found in one of the Dragon Magazines, and once again on the 3.5 Wizards Site. The Archivist is pretty much a Cleric with a Spellbook, with the difference that the Archivist gains the ability to graint their Intelligence bonus to their allies as an attack bonus against enemies the Archivist has researched, or something along those lines.

    The problem is, in the Complete Divine sourcebook, there's a Divine Feat for the Knowledge Domain that essentially gives Clerics this one advantage that the Archivists have, plus all of the advantages of being a Spontaneous Spellcaster who can drop spells for Cure magic.

    Essentially, you've done the same thing. You've stripped the Ranger of everything that makes him a soldier of the wilderness and turned them into a Scout. Don't believe me? Scouts have Skirmish, which is a Sneak Attack that gives you a bonus to AC. They also get Bonus Feats for a combat style every 5 levels. On top of that, they can't get an Animal Companion or cast spells.

    Perhaps instead of reworking the Ranger entirely, you should pick up the Scout class as a base class in your games and make your Ranger a better blend between Scout and Druid? For Combat Styles, you could add a feature for Two-Handed Weapon fighting or something for spearmen, or even homebrew special Ranger spears that are double weapons, allowing a Ranger to take advantage of the Two-Weapon fighting Combat Style (since double weapons count as Two-Weapon Fighting :P).

    Just throwing some ideas out there for you ^_^.

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    You've knicked a lot from Rogues, which sort of makes me uncomfortable. Giving him a neutered Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge is unfairly taking from the Rogue to fool the with Ranger. The core classes should all be totally distinct with no or few abilities bleeding from one class to the other.

    You may also want to say in the feat section, "the Ranger may select a feat even if he doesn't meet the prerequisite".
    Last edited by Faulty; 2009-04-06 at 10:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amesoeurs View Post
    You've knicked a lot from Rogues, which sort of makes me uncomfortable. Giving him a neutered Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge is unfairly taking from the Rogue to fool the with Ranger. The core classes should all be totally distinct with no or few abilities bleeding from one class to the other.

    You may also want to say in the feat section, "the Ranger may select a feat even if he doesn't meet the prerequisite".
    Eh, I don't know about that, personally. I kind of like the bleeding between Druid and Ranger or Cleric and Paladin. Gives a sense of unity.

    I do, however, think it's important that each Base Class has a distinct, if not unique, feature or ability or feel to it. Rangers, as they are in the 3.5 Edition, specialize in Tracking and Scouting, while they have some nature-based survival abilities like a Druid and some combat prowess like a fighter and some Strealthy options like a Rogue, but all in all those feelings come together to make the Ranger.

    Of the Core Classes, I'd say that Ranger and Paladin are the "Bleeding" classes, with Sorcerers being an outright weaker copy of the Wizard. For most campaigns, not needing an hour's worth of prepare time does not counter balance the lower number of spells known and the lost of bonus feats, in my opinion. But that's a story for another day.

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    I don't really mean spellcasting. I'm OK with Druids and Clerics both being divine casters, Wizards and Sorcerers both being arcane, etc. I think the Sorcerer does need more individuality. He gets that in Pathfinder, which I like. As for the Ranger and Paladin, they are very clearly the melee Fighter versions of the Druid and Cleric specifically. It's not really stepping on their toes because their emphasis is heavily on fighting and unique abilities (Lay on Hands, Favored Enemy, etc). Jane's Ranger doesn't connect to the Druid in that sense, rather, the Ranger takes some of what makes the Rogue a Rogue and unironically pilfers it.
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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Personally, I've never found that Ranger spellcasting to be weak. Yes, they're not blasting the **** out of everybody and everything like the primary casters but that's not what they're designed to do. The half-caster classes (rangers, paladins, hexblades and a couple of others, i imagine) are designed as self-buffers. The first level paladin spell, bless weapon, gives your weapon DR penetration and auto-confirms crits against evil foes, things paladins are supposed to be good against. From teh Spell Compendium, if I'm recalling correctly, there's a first level ranger spell called hunter's mercy, with which your next single attack is a critical, no questions asked. These are the sort of things half-casters are designed to do, improve what they already do well and taking away casting takes from their history, as palys and rangers been casting since 1st edition.

    As for Jane's fix itself, it feels rather like the Wilderness Rogue variant from Unearthed Arcana, sprinkling a little Ranger into the Rogue. Now, it's definitely much more than that. I can see why some decisions were made with expanding on some of the capabilities Rangers do already have but they are also come off very much looking Scout-like, though I think the Scout is probably still the better choice in the matter.

    I would also put back in the clause for the high-level Rogue foiling Improved Uncanny Dodge, as it makes perfect sense for the highly trained Rogue to be able to do so. They are still and should continue to be the masters of the cheap shot and able to bring down low the foe that does not expect them.

    Also, your complaint about Combat Styles being too narrow is valid up to the point of if there isn't an option, why not make new Ranger Combat Styles? I mean, I'm fairly sure I've seen people come up with new Ranger Combat Styles to fit their idea of Wilderness Warrior, whether it be a weapon-focused one or more survivalist-oriented.

    Finally, I don't find Skill Mastery in Ranger skills to be all that compelling as a capstone ability. I mean, Rogues can pull that off w/ their Special abilities, if they so choose to. I don't know what kinda capstone you'd put instead on them, either, though, so I'm not sure how to really rectify that situation.

    At Meklor, Favored Enemies/Terrain/Rivals are supposed to be situational; you specialize in taking them down, getting bonuses above and beyond what other characters can do against them. Specialization in by definition situational, for it applies towards what you've been so thoroughly specializing in. If you aren't in that situation, it doesn't make sense to be extra good at it.

    In any case, them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.
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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    I agree completely with Cieryn, and also, I'm not a big fan of the rivals thing. Enemies and terrains yes, but organizations just seems weird. It seems more of a city thing than wilderness. Yes I know there is an option for urban in favoured terrain, but that's only about one tenth of rangers who will be urban.

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    Well, yeah they're mean to be situational, but there's a difference between situational and useless, and all too often that's what favored enemy/terrain/whatever ends up being. I've been in alot of games where if you're unlucky in your choices you'll never end up using the abilities at all, and that shouldn't happen to major abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    Well, yeah they're mean to be situational, but there's a difference between situational and useless, and all too often that's what favored enemy/terrain/whatever ends up being. I've been in alot of games where if you're unlucky in your choices you'll never end up using the abilities at all, and that shouldn't happen to major abilities.
    Then that's kind of the DM's fault. A good DM makes sure to set up encounters that appeal and work to everyone in their game's strength. A DM who makes a series of encounters and hurls it to their players without considering what the players can do isn't working to make the game fun for them.

    That saying, the Dungeon Master isn't inclined to only throw types of creatures the Ranger specializes in at the party, but the Dungeon Master should say something like "Hey, I have a Paladin, a Cleric, and a Ranger in my party. Paladins work well against Evil, Clerics and Paladins work well against Undead, and my Ranger specialized in Evil Outsiders and Undead. Perhaps I should make an encounter with mostly Undead and Demons so they can have their fun" every now and then :P.

    I'll one-up Cieyrn and throw my Electrum in.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Ah, but neither terrain nor organization work as well, plus sometimes it's just too much of a stretch to include some things. Basing this mostly off my experiences, and expect for almost single type campaigns(like Red Hand of Doom, where 9/10 enemies are hobgoblins), favored enemy doesn't come up enough to make it worthwhile, and the bonuses are much larger.

    On the other hand, in that case it's supposed to be a major part of the character, and it's been said that in this variant it's only kept for flavor. In any case, that's one of the real problems I have with this version of the Ranger: it's not one. It's a scout/barbarian, with one aspect of the ranger tacked on.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Well, how about something like this?

    Favored Enemy

    At 1st Level, select a creature type, such as Abomination, Humanoid, Outsider, etc. All creatures within that creature type are considered to be your favored enemy, and you gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls made against that creature, as well as a +1 to all Ranger class skills and a +1 on all saving throws incurred by that creature type.

    At 5th level, a Ranger can choose to either specialize in an additional creature type or to improve the specialization he or she already has. The Ranger can choose to select any Creature Type that he or she has not already selected and add it as a favored enemy (see the Favored Enemy Class Feature above). If the Ranger chooses, he or she can instead choose to specialize within their pre-existing field of expertise. A Ranger can select any race of creature within his Favored Creature type (for example, Undead {Ghoul}). In addition to the bonuses the Ranger gets for declaring a Creature Type favored enemy, the Ranger gains a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls made against creatures of that race, as well as a +1 to all Ranger class skills and a +1 on all saving throws incurred by that creature type.

    At 10th level, a Ranger can choose to specialize in an additional creature type, improve a specialization he or she already has, or specialize in fighting in a particular terrain. The Ranger can choose to select any Creature type that he or she has not specialized in already and add it to their list of Favored Enemies. Also, the Ranger can specialize in a pre-existing field of expertise, selecting a race of creature within a Favored Enemy Creature type. Finally, the Ranger can select a terrain (such as arctic, forest, plains, rocky, etc) and specialize in fighting in that terrain. While on Favored Terrain, the Ranger gains a +1 bonus to all Ranger class skills and a +1 on all attack rolls and damage rolls. In addition, the Ranger is always treated as having concealment while in their Favored Terrain.

    At 15th level, a Ranger can choose to specialize in an additional creature type, improve a specialization he or she already has, specialize in fighting on a particular terrain, or improve any pre-existing specialization. If the Ranger chooses to improve a pre-existing specialization, double the bonus the Ranger gets for either fighting a specific creature type, fighting a particular race, or fighting on a particular terrain. Any one specialization can only be doubled once.

    At 20th level, a Ranger can choose to specialize in an additional creature type, improve a specialization he or she already has, specialize in fighting on a particular terrain, or improve any pre-existing specialization.

    I'm not gonna lie, it was a quick idea I sketched up before I went into class, but something like this would make Favored Enemy more desirable for sure, as well as giving the Ranger the freedom to expand into multiple specializations or to focus on one particular area.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2009-04-06 at 02:46 PM.

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    I find it very absurd that alot of peaple, not just here but in varios other threads, complane that some splat book class is being encroached appon by other classes. The scout is a splat book optional class. It steels from the ranger and rogue. These are core classes, the scout is steeling from both of them. If some ones core or splat class homebrew alteration steps on the toes of a splat book class, so what? That is what homebrew is about. Altering a class to fit a campaign world or an individuals idea on how a class should work. As for the scout its self. It is a dumb class. A ranged sneak attack if I run ten feet between every shot? Thats about as plausable as shooting four arrows from a bow at the same time, with accuracy.

    Jane Smith

    I like your idea about making an animal companion a feat similar to leadership. It makes alot of sence. I suggest that the animal handling skill ranks should be at least 5 for a requirement. Modify the feat even further by focusing on a single type of animal, wolf, dog, bear, eagle, ect. Then have the animal increase in level as the origional ability. Trade up for a larger animal or more animals of the same type when the character increases the animal handling skill. One thing I never under stood about the animal companion was, why can't your animal have pups, and let them be companions too? And or the mate. This especialy doesnt make sence of the animal is a pack or herd animal.

    Your alterations, for the most part, are close to what Ive seen pop up on the boards time and again. The standard ones are; get rid of spell casting, add more combat style chains, 5d6 sneak attack, no penalties for an urbin environment, favored environment insted of enemy, animal companions are level -3 not 1/2 level.

    Uncanny dodge is getting alot of flak. Honestly I think your right to give it to the ranger. Hell I think all melee based classes should have it. After all they are supposed to fight in melees. The ranger is some one who travels alone or in small groups. They need to be very aware of their seroundings. Particularly for attacks not just by peaple, but animals like snakes, spiders, scorpions or other creatures that attack from ambush. If the barbarian gets it why not the ranger?

    Quick to arms.
    I like it. The way you explane it is perfect for a ranger, rogue, or vet fighter. However I think as written it may be abusable. The ranger can jump up from prone with out causing an aoo. There already is a feat that does this, it's kip up. You also get a bonus to initiative and is not surprised. I have to ask is this only when at rest/sleeping or any time the ranger is surprised or prone? A listen check should be made in order for this ability to work. After all the character is alseep. last Sleeps with one eye open or just one eye open would be a better name.

    Combat style.
    If you dont like the ones there are make more. Thats what most peaple do. Make a chain for mobility, sword and board, two handed, mounted combat, unarmed, or others. If you dont like the combat style chain idea at all just make them bonus fighter feats.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    I don't think all the melee classes should have the uncanny dodge chain. Not everybody is about being aware of their surroundings and keeping track of what weapon is going where. That requires a level of agility that I just don't see a heavily-armored fighter or paladin displaying. For Rangers, I could see it as feasible, since they do the lightly-armored thing, so that's why I made no comment on that point here.

    Golden-Esque: I don't think your version of Favored whatever is actually step in the right direction. It actually nerfs it a little bit, since you have far less choice of how you go about specializing. It really narrows the grounds quite a bit. The original Favored is better, since you can choose to learn AND improve your specs. With Jane's, it takes the bonuses down one peg but improves all and gives a choice of what you want to do with it.

    Also, you technically two-upped me, since silver is the next step up from copper. Electrum is worth 5 silver or half a gold. =p

    As for Meklor, yes, favored enemy bonuses can often be a moot point. There's a certain amount of DM fiat to ensuring that your favored enemy/terrain/whatever choices dovetails into the campaign, so you're not a forest ranger in an underwater campaign or outsider fighter in a low-magic campaign. You shouldn't necessarily be getting your bonuses every game but they should come up often enough that you can show off your knowledge and power. Also, some choices are clearly better than others, as, let's face it, more often than not you'll be fighting humans, so picking up Favored Enemy(Humanoid(Human)) is often a safe bet. It's just a matter of ensuring you make good choices about your choice of specialization and talking to your DM about those choices for the campaign is a good start.

    Them's my 2 copper-leafed gold pieces. Take as you will. (Golden-esque =p)
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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawriel View Post
    I find it very absurd that alot of peaple, not just here but in varios other threads, complane that some splat book class is being encroached appon by other classes. The scout is a splat book optional class. It steels from the ranger and rogue. These are core classes, the scout is steeling from both of them. If some ones core or splat class homebrew alteration steps on the toes of a splat book class, so what? That is what homebrew is about. Altering a class to fit a campaign world or an individuals idea on how a class should work. As for the scout its self. It is a dumb class. A ranged sneak attack if I run ten feet between every shot? Thats about as plausable as shooting four arrows from a bow at the same time, with accuracy.
    How about 12 arrows from 4 bows?

    That said, I've seen more concern about this class ganking things from the rogue than from the scout, with the overall product more resembling the scout/rogue (or the reverse) than a ranger.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Well, it is in essence, a Rogue/Barbarian hybrid isnt it? Enough with the scout though - all scout is was a Ranger/Rogue mix itself, and as stated above, its just splat.

    I believed all melee-based classes should get uncanny dodge as well; but their is some point in fighters and paladins not having it.. after all, they do have heavy armor/shield proficency, their use to their armor taking all the work. Rogues, barbarians, and rangers are light-based, and need the extra awareness to survive. So that makes sense barb/ranger/rogue gets it; and not fighter/paladin.

    And, im with agreement on the stupidity of Skirmish. Im sorry, but, bonus damage on shots running around like a chicken with your head cutt in melee? Am i the only one that seems the flaws in that theory? The bonus to armor class, ya, i can understand that, maybe even a bonus to reflex saves to, but... DAMAGE?! wtf... Maybe with a melee weapon while running FORWARD, maybe, but.. ya. Just irky-tasting in my mind.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    Well, it is in essence, a Rogue/Barbarian hybrid isnt it? Enough with the scout though - all scout is was a Ranger/Rogue mix itself, and as stated above, its just splat.
    As I've said, the Ranger is a counterpart to the Paladin, so no. At least, not the PHB version. Your's is more of a Rouge/Scout/Barbarian, thus the comments that this really doesn't feel like a Ranger: It's not. You've drooped/made insignificant all the things that really defined the old ranger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    I believed all melee-based classes should get uncanny dodge as well; but their is some point in fighters and paladins not having it.. after all, they do have heavy armor/shield proficency, their use to their armor taking all the work. Rogues, barbarians, and rangers are light-based, and need the extra awareness to survive. So that makes sense barb/ranger/rogue gets it; and not fighter/paladin.
    My only real comment it that I'd allow for some way to overcome improved uncanny dodge(like in the original entries).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    And, im with agreement on the stupidity of Skirmish. Im sorry, but, bonus damage on shots running around like a chicken with your head cutt in melee? Am i the only one that seems the flaws in that theory? The bonus to armor class, ya, i can understand that, maybe even a bonus to reflex saves to, but... DAMAGE?! wtf... Maybe with a melee weapon while running FORWARD, maybe, but.. ya. Just irky-tasting in my mind.
    You know what's also silly? That by making some weird gestures you can change the laws of physics. Or by touching someone you can cure them. Or that one man can take down an army if he's a high enough level. Or having some people constantly talk to animals. Good thing that doesn't happ...Oh, wait. Nevermind.

    Also, skirmish is better represented by moving to a position to get a better shot off. After all, what's easier: shooting directly at someone so their shield's in the way, or moving around and shooting them in the back? Plus, there's less armor there. The reason it seems silly is more to do with the system lacking facing rules than anything else.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    As I've said, the Ranger is a counterpart to the Paladin, so no. At least, not the PHB version. Your's is more of a Rouge/Scout/Barbarian, thus the comments that this really doesn't feel like a Ranger: It's not. You've drooped/made insignificant all the things that really defined the old ranger.
    The ranger is a hybrid frighter/druid as the paladin is a hybrid fighter/cleric, and the bard is a hybrid rogue/wizard. Rangers are not holy tree warriors like paladins are crusaders for their god. Rangers are not defined by their spell casting. Its been a tool they have. They never where dependant on it. One of the alterations almost every one makes on the stick boards is dumping spells. A ranger is a lone hunter, woodsmen or wanderer. That's basicly what the dunedain rangers where. D&D based the ranger off of them and tossed in a little Robin Hood. Jane Smith's ranger in now way brakes that archetype. Besides the ranger, paladin and barbarian have always been variants of the fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    You know what's also silly? That by making some weird gestures you can change the laws of physics. Or by touching someone you can cure them. Or that one man can take down an army if he's a high enough level. Or having some people constantly talk to animals. Good thing that doesn't happ...Oh, wait. Nevermind..
    This is a rant nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    Also, skirmish is better represented by moving to a position to get a better shot off. After all, what's easier: shooting directly at someone so their shield's in the way, or moving around and shooting them in the back? Plus, there's less armor there. The reason it seems silly is more to do with the system lacking facing rules than anything else.
    So you have never touched a bow befor? Or tried to flank some one? You have to move alot more than ten feet to flank some one. At the ranges a bow is normaly used moving ten feet is nothing. Your still shooting from the same angle. The target barly has to turn at all to keep a shield up. Then the archer is moving. That will remove any chance of accuacy. Whith your (and wizards) logic there should be no difference between an archer who runs ten feet to get a sneak attack. And two archers standing ten feet appart. Meen wile their is nothing to stop the target from just advancing and beating the snot out of the archer. Because in WOTC D&D archers are used at 30 to 60 foot ranges. If you cant see this I suggest this simple little exersise. Get some paiper, a pencil and a protracter. One quarter inch equals a foot. Put the archer 30 and 60 feet out then move it ten feet left or right. The target at the point of the angle doesnt really see a change.
    Last edited by Hawriel; 2009-04-08 at 11:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawriel View Post
    Rangers are not defined by their spell casting. Its been a tool they have. They never where dependant on it. One of the alterations almost every one makes on the stick boards is dumping spells. [...] D&D based the ranger off of them and tossed in a little Robin Hood.
    To be fair, though, the ranger has always had spellcasting. It's minor spellcasting, meant to simulate Aragorn's (and other rangers') almost supernatural knack for healing with herbs, finding creatures, etc., but it's as much a part of the D&D ranger as anything else.
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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Wanna play that way then? Oh.. I can play THAT way. :3

    Wild Healing (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger with at least 5 ranks in Survival can use natural materials found in the wilderness to heal wounds. The ranger makes a DC 15 Survival check representing 1 hour of searching for and preparing roots, rare leaves, berries, and other such materials for a natural bew or poultice. Once the subject ingests or applies the concoction (As appropriate), the ranger makes a DC 10 Heal check. The subject recovers 1d4 hit points, plus an additional 1d4 hit points for every 5 points by which the result exceeds 10. Wild healing affects a single subject per attempt, and the same subject benefits from the concoction only once per day equal to their constitution modifier (minimum 1).
    In addition, the ranger gains a +2 competence bonus on the Heal check at 5th level, and increases by +2 for every five ranger levels thereafter (to a maximum of +10 at 20th level).


    Heck, and truthfully when the heck did a ranger become an healer over it? Seriously, DC 15, make some Healer's Balm from complete adventure. Max out ranks in heal. I dont see ANY literature ranger suddenly healing a cutt to the gutt with a TOUCH.
    Last edited by Jane_Smith; 2009-04-09 at 01:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    I do like my Ranger with some know how of the herbal sort, like Infusions from teh venerable Masters of the Wild splatbook. While I prefer my Ranger to maintain half-caster buffing abilities, I'll take skill-based healing as an alternative.

    As for the Skirmish argument, I see it more as a momentum thing in melee, which is where I see it most often, in any case. As for archery type Skirmishing, it's no less implausible than Sneak Attacking at range. Explain how I can find a weak spot from across the room as easily as I can up close and then we'll continue from there. D&D combat rules don't completely follow Earth physics (which isn't possible, frankly), so basing arguments off of them is weak at best. And in any case, we shouldn't blame the poor Scout for how his Skirmish rules work, since he isn't the origin of Skirmish, anyways. They came from the Peregrine Runner of Races of Stone. Blame him. =p

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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Do you intend to DM a campaign with your variant classes?
    If you do, please PM me.
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    Default Re: Variant Ranger

    Ok, going to go to bed for tonight, to late for me - but this is the basic idea I have planned for my ranger update! Take a peek - its not finished, ill get to it tomorrow. Nini.

    Sneak peek!


    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Dice: d10.
    Base Attack: Good.
    Saves: Good Fortitude, Good Reflex, Poor Willpower.

    Class Skills
    A rangers class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int Modifier) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int Modifier.


    1 - Sneak Attack +1d6, Track, Wild Trait, Wilderness Trapfinding
    2 - Aspect
    3 - Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +1 (Evasion)
    4 - Aspect, Wild Trait
    5 - Sneak Attack +2d6
    6 - Aspect
    7 - Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +2 (Uncanny Dodge)
    8 - Aspect, Wild Trait
    9 - Sneak Attack +3d6
    10- Aspect
    11- Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +3 (Improved Evasion)
    12- Aspect, Wild Trait
    13- Sneak Attack +4d6
    14- Aspect
    15- Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +4 (Improved Uncanny Dodge)
    16- Aspect, Wild Trait
    17- Sneak Attack +5d6
    18- Aspect
    19- Bonus Feat, Danger Sense +5 (Never suprised)
    20- Aspect, Wild Trait




    Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor and shields (Except tower shields).

    Sneak Attack (Ex):

    Track: At 1st level, the ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.

    Wild Trait: At 1st level, the ranger gains a Wild Trait from the list below. He may select an additional trait at 4th level and every four levels thereafter. A trait cannot be selected more than once.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    Bloodhound (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Survival checks. In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    Hawk' Eyes (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Spot checks. In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    Panther's Step (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Move Silently checks. In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    Raven's Cunning (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Craft checks when constructing an object entirely out of natural materials (such as stone, wood, plant, or animal parts, but excluding metal or glass). In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    Snake's Prowl (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Move Silently checks. In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    Wolf's Ears (Ex): The ranger receives a +4 bonus to Listen checks. In addition, he may take 10 when making such a check even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    Aspect of the Hunter: At 2nd level, the ranger gains a Aspect from the list below. He may select an additional aspect at 4th level and every two levels thereafter. A aspect cannot be selected more than once unless it states otherwise.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    Planning on class features such as Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy, Favored Terrain, Favored Rivals, Fast Movement, Trackless Step, Improved Wilderness Trapfinding, Trackless Step, Swift Tracker, etc.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    Bonus Feats: At 3rd level, and then again at 7th level and every four levels thereafter, a ranger gains a bonus feat, which must be selected from the following list: Acrobatic, Agile, Agile Athlete, Alertness, Ambidextrous, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Brachiation, Combat Expertise, Danger Sense, Deadly Aim, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Far Shot, Great Fortitude. Greater Weapon Focus, Hear the Unseen, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Improved Swimming, Improved Weapon Focus, Incredible Ambidexterity, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Manyshot, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Quick Reconnoiter, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Self-Sufficient, Shadow, Shot on the Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Track, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus. She must meet all the prerequisites for the feat.

    Danger Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, the ranger gains the Evasion class feature, and a +1 bonus on Initiative checks and on spot checks made to notice other creatures at the beginning of an encounter. At 7th level, he gains the Uncanny Dodge class feature, and his previous Initiative and spot bonus increases to +2. At 11th level, he gains the improved Evasion class feature, and his Initiative and spot bonuses increase to +3. At 15th level, he gains the Improved Uncanny Dodge class feature and his Initiative and Spot bonuses increase to +4. At 19th level, the ranger is never surprised and can always take a partial action during a surprise round, unless he is immobilized or otherwise unable to act, and his Initiative and Spot bonuses increase to a maximum of +5. The evasion, uncanny dodge, improved evasion, and improved uncanny dodge class features function identically to the rogues abilities of the same name.

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