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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    I dispute the order of events. I never suggested I had a powerrole until *after* I was up for lynch.

    I'm a bit annoyed at Team Good for not catching Talic though. His repeated suggestion that I was bluffing when I claimed fool should have been enough to get him lynched, as there was no possible way it was beneficial to the villagers to say that publicly. I didn't really think the bluff would work (and I knew it never would have once I was dead and found out Darkcomet was the alpha), but Talic never should have survived after he pointed out it was probably a bluff. And wouldn't have if I'd been a villager bystander instead of ded.

    But grats to the wolves. Well played.
    I'd have said it if I was a villager too.

    Though, the moment you said seer, us wolves decided you needed to die.

    The moment you said "Fool"... We looked at each other and said, "yup, she still dies." Seers are one thing wolves don't play with. Even the chance of it is too much a risk. No, there was no bluffing getting you out of that noose.

    It really wasn't repeated. It was mentioned once, I think. It wasn't brought up again until AFTER you were ded.

    Plus, everyone knows that Happyturtle is a chronic liar in WW games.
    Last edited by Talic; 2009-05-02 at 09:58 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    And I would have lynched you for it if you were a villager too. Even if there was a 1% chance of the bluff working, it helped no one for you to say it in the thread. And you said it at least twice, that I recall.
    Last edited by happyturtle; 2009-05-02 at 10:00 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    And lynching a villager would help someone?

    Oh, right. Wolves.

    Sorry, you've got a WW rep. Probably from one of those threads where you claimed to vortex, bane, assassinate, and scry, within the span of two days.

    So your opposition? Will tend to believe the absolute worst possible scenario with you, rather than what you say.
    Last edited by Talic; 2009-05-02 at 10:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    I'm a bit annoyed at Team Good for not catching Talic though. His repeated suggestion that I was bluffing when I claimed fool should have been enough to get him lynched, as there was no possible way it was beneficial to the villagers to say that publicly. I didn't really think the bluff would work (and I knew it never would have once I was dead and found out Darkcomet was the alpha), but Talic never should have survived after he pointed out it was probably a bluff. And wouldn't have if I'd been a villager bystander instead of ded.
    Heh. If they HAD caught him, I'd have been pretty much cleared.

    And yeah, I figured you were bluffing without even paying much attention to Talic's post there.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Lynching a villager who helps wolves? Yeah, I'll do it. Show me a werewolf game where Team Good won without lynching any of their own.

    I like my WW rep. It makes me smile. Especially when it gets me killed by both teams on the same night. Of course Dad then had to one up me in Rumble...
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    He takes 24+60+31+10+47+19+42-(69+40+56)=68 damage and survives with 1 energy.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcomet View Post
    Heh. If they HAD caught him, I'd have been pretty much cleared.

    And yeah, I figured you were bluffing without even paying much attention to Talic's post there.
    Which is what I was playing into after I made that error. I was building up my suspicion slowly so that when I did die? Dark was the last one suspected.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    Lynching a villager who helps wolves? Yeah, I'll do it. Show me a werewolf game where Team Good won without lynching any of their own.

    I like my WW rep. It makes me smile. Especially when it gets me killed by both teams on the same night. Of course Dad then had to one up me in Rumble...
    Helps wolves? YOUR REP is what killed you there, more than anything anyone else said. Your rep, and the fact that you outed your role to someone you hadn't scried, TWO someones. One blatantly claiming villager.

    Keep talkin' bout my blunders, but that right there? Is what everyone up there is talking about for why the game was skewed.

    It's like criticizing someone for a fender bender, right after you cause a 7 car pileup, really. Come on now, Happy. Out of every villager that played this game, the all star award for play errors go to you and NS here. Talking about my small error that DID get by? Seems a little petty.
    Last edited by Talic; 2009-05-02 at 10:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Helps wolves? YOUR REP is what killed you there, more than anything anyone else said. Your rep, and the fact that you outed your role to someone you hadn't scried, TWO someones. One blatantly claiming villager.

    Keep talkin' bout my blunders, but that right there? Is what everyone up there is talking about for why the game was skewed.

    It's like criticizing someone for a fender bender, right after you cause a 7 car pileup, really. Come on now, Happy. Out of every villager that played this game, the all star award for play errors go to you and NS here. Talking about my small error that DID get by? Seems a little petty.
    She was going to get lynched if she didn't claim publicly. So I don't think Happy did any real mistakes there. And reputation is nice to have, even though it sometimes hurts you. The games are meant to be fun, and I take it as a compliment if someone deems me worthy of something like the Constant.

    And no, Happyturtle doesn't have that much of a reputation for lying. She's a sceming evil horror, but in LLD she was just messing with people, and nobody (hopefully) thought she was serious. She's a very good player and people are starting to recognize that, but there isn't any 'rule of never trusting Happy' above and beyond the Number One rule 'Never trust ANYONE.'
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    But she wouldn't have likely been a lynch target if she didn't reveal her role in PM land. There's a hundred ways to avoid a bandwagon. And that was the play error. Day 1, throwing your secret identity around like it was gotten in a box of crackerjacks.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    She was a lynch target when she first revealed anything. I think it was 5 votes on her and two on the closest, Aemoh. That's about time to start getting worried if you're the Seer/Fool, especially since I had a bit of a bet going on about trying to get her day-1 lynched and, well, I seemed to be doing a good job.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Even so, there are ways to deflect it.

    As for the other point? It was brought up, the comment I made. The exact one that was pointed out by happy. It was used in a point against me.

    It didn't stick. At that point I was already too firmly entrenched, I had the trust of too many.

    EDIT: The ultimate point I'm trying to make? It's real easy to armchair "what I'd have done" after the game.

    But at the time I made that comment? She was still in the game. She could have called it out.

    She chose not to when she had the opportunity.
    Last edited by Talic; 2009-05-02 at 02:10 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    I did not PM my role to anyone until I was about to get lynched. Geez, why does no one ever believe me when I say that? They thought I'd blabbed my seer role when I got night 1 killed in Fears 2 on what the alpha later told me was a random number generated choice.

    Murska will tell you that no matter how good he is at getting roles out of people, he never gets anything but a villager claim from me unless I have a damn good reason to say something different. And really - LLD? Did you *really* think I was playing that game seriously? *eyeroll*

    @^: I considered it, but there was no way to do it without admitting that I was, indeed, bluffing. And there are enough players who only pay attention to what's being said on the current page that the bluff might have worked on a different wolf team.
    Last edited by happyturtle; 2009-05-02 at 02:18 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Point is, it's hard to say, "I'd have done this..."

    when you COULD have done that, while you were in the game...

    and didn't.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    I couldn't do it while there was any chance of the bluff working. Which means *I* couldn't have done it as long as I had the seer role. I did say I would have done it if I'd been a bystander.

    I'm a known liar in game, but not in post game. When I say 'I would have done this if I hadn't been the seer' I'm telling the truth. At the time, while I was still alive, before I knew your role, I thought 'Damn Talic. I hope after I'm dead you get lynched for that'.

    Could you please try and be a little more civil in these discussions? Most of us play these games for fun, and being told repeatedly that I'm incompetent and dishonest is really unfun.
    Last edited by happyturtle; 2009-05-02 at 02:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Okay, note to self, next time, less shadows, more masons.

    Also, tired n' drowsy, when am I going to get the trophies?
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Eh. Truthfully this game was quite unbalanced. Regardless of how the beginning went, it was an almost guaranteed wolf victory. Let's look at the numbers.

    25 people. Minus 2 for the neutrals since they're not part of the wolf victory. Takes that to 23. Minus 1 for the lovers, because they hurt the villagers being one in the same in terms of a kill. 22. Minus 1 more for the wolf beast role, a bonus kill for them. 21.

    This doesn't take into account the moving alpha, but for the purposes of game balance, one would imagine that be included as well.

    What do the villagers have extra? Nothing. So that number doesn't go back up.

    So this game had an equivalent of 20-21 good guys. 25%, the max werewolf games should have, is 4.

    There were 6 wolves. 6. Wolves.

    2 more than there should have been frankly. It's why the game was so short, despite catching 2 of them! It ended day 7!

    Yeah, I really didn't see how the villagers could have won this before entering the game.

    I joined for the flavor myself. I am your Angel of Musiccc!!!

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    Last edited by Reinholdt; 2009-05-02 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    I'm not saying you're incompetent. I'm saying you made a mistake.

    As for the rest? Well, hindsight is much clearer than most other forms of vision.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinholdt View Post
    Eh. Truthfully this game was quite unbalanced. Regardless of how the beginning went, it was an almost guaranteed wolf victory. Let's look at the numbers.

    25 people. Minus 2 for the neutrals since they're not part of the wolf victory. Takes that to 23. Minus 1 for the lovers, because they hurt the villagers being one in the same in terms of a kill. 22. Minus 1 more for the wolf beast role, a bonus kill for them. 21.

    This doesn't take into account the moving alpha, but for the purposes of game balance, one would imagine that be included as well.

    What do the villagers have extra? Nothing. So that number doesn't go back up.

    So this game had an equivalent of 20-21 good guys. 25%, the max werewolf games should have, is 4.

    There were 6 wolves. 6. Wolves.

    2 more than there should have been frankly. It's why the game was so short, despite catching 2 of them! It ended day 7!

    Yeah, I really didn't see how the villagers could have won this before entering the game.

    I joined for the flavor myself. I am your Angel of Musiccc!!!

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    Small note, the neutrals actually counted as villagers in this game, they just had different victory conditions.
    Last edited by Shadowcaller; 2009-05-02 at 02:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcomet View Post
    I'm still annoyed that you forgot I was even on the team while I was the friggin' Alpha.
    Now now, that just means you were 'really' under the radar.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcaller View Post
    Small note, the neutrals actually counted as villagers in this game, they just had different victory conditions.
    Really?
    *looks*
    Fair enough.
    I still have yet to play in a game where the neutrals don't join the wolf team, though.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Agreed on that. The neutrals had incentives to join team bad. That makes it hard to consider them villagers, if they can win without the villagers.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Since I'm getting a 'there's a problem with the neturals win conditions' feeling, any suggestions on how to fix that?
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    I'm not saying you're incompetent. I'm saying you made a mistake.

    As for the rest? Well, hindsight is much clearer than most other forms of vision.
    Talic. You won. I congratulated you umpty posts ago. Continuing to pile on and trash talk me? Well it makes you look like an ass. And it's pretty much ruining any fun I did have in this game before my quick demise.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Agreed on that. The neutrals had incentives to join team bad. That makes it hard to consider them villagers, if they can win without the villagers.
    It also helps that they needed to out themselves to the Baner or the Alpha, the former of which died on night one.

    So, they were left with no choice.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Well, I think just removing the Phantom moving to another shadow on death would work.

    After all, that'd mean that the neutrals have to claim to the villagers if the Phantom dies. And, yes, neutrals aren't that often on the side of villagers but that's difficult to fix, since neither side wants to kill them but the wolves at least gain something out of it, especially if they count towards the win condition.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    Since I'm getting a 'there's a problem with the neturals win conditions' feeling, any suggestions on how to fix that?
    I think it's a problem with neutrals in general.

    I'm not sure how to fix it.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    ...but Talic never should have survived after he pointed out it was probably a bluff. And wouldn't have if I'd been a villager bystander instead of ded.

    But grats to the wolves. Well played.
    Here's your "congratulations". Right after you said, pretty much, that beyond a shadow of a doubt, you'd have seen the error, and bent enough people to get me lynched. You would have done it?

    No. You would have tried. Would it have succeeded? Maybe. Maybe not. But I found this statement somewhat... arrogant, to assume that you'd have done it successfully, without regard to any of the players around you.

    That's what got my feathers in a ruffle. You assume too much.

    As for phantom's post? 1 more mason, 1 less wolf. That'd balance it out.

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Here's your "congratulations". Right after you said, pretty much, that beyond a shadow of a doubt, you'd have seen the error, and bent enough people to get me lynched. You would have done it?

    No. You would have tried. Would it have succeeded? Maybe. Maybe not. But I found this statement somewhat... arrogant, to assume that you'd have done it successfully, without regard to any of the players around you.

    That's what got my feathers in a ruffle. You assume too much.

    As for phantom's post? 1 more mason, 1 less wolf. That'd balance it out.
    ...Aren't you going on this a bit too much? Is there any reason at all to continue this bashing?

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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    If you were all that familiar with my werewolf reputation you'd know I have a pretty good record of getting people lynched that I want lynched.

    So yeah, I would have gotten you lynched. Not could have. Would have.
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    Default Re: Phantom of the Opera Werewolf - Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    If you were all that familiar with my werewolf reputation you'd know I have a pretty good record of getting people lynched that I want lynched.

    So yeah, I would have gotten you lynched. Not could have. Would have.
    LOL. Yeah, OK. Now look at the pompous one. "pretty good records" don't change the "could have, should have, would have" to what DID happen.

    Your bet with Murska in previous threads came back to bite you. No matter what role you were in THIS game, you Would have been lynched day one, or night killed day 2. Just like you were.

    Unless you were a wolf. But then, Murska wouldn't have started the wagon on you.

    Keep arguing your maybes. I'm telling you what happened, and short of being a wolf, that's exactly what Would have happened.


    Does that have any impact on your skill as a player? No. It's just the way it breaks.

    Now get over yourself. I'm done here.

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