Playing An Ubemensch: "I Have A Destiny. It Is One That I Shall Forge Myself.""

[Leliel]

Basically, I just read the entry TV Tropes has on the Ubermeschen, and my first thought was, "How can I create a heroic version?"

Although I already have an idea for one-Joshu Tabren, a young warlock who wants to create a new Bael Turath, in order to protect his adopted family/speices-I am still not clear on how to play him-ambitious and forceful, to be certain, but I'm not certain how to show the moral actions of a person whose rejected all other codes other than his own. It's not completely alien-he's still a good guy, just a particularly anti-herioc one-but still alien enough to the point where he takes most DnD morals and shoves it.

So how would you potray a man who find traditional social mores unappealing, to say the least?

[Aquillion]

So how would you potray a man who find traditional social mores unappealing, to say the least?

That doesn't work in D&D.


"I reject your shallow, traditional belief system and the weak, decadent moral code that--"

"Detect Evil."

"...god damn it."

[Leliel]

That doesn't work in D&D.


"I reject your shallow, traditional belief system and the weak, decadent moral code that--"

"Detect Evil."

"...god damn it."

Heh, like that would stop him.

"So what if I am? Just beacuse your so-called "gods" fear me, doesn't mean I have to listen to them. Even if Necromancy is a traditionally dark magic, those zombies could be used for a good purpose. Results are all that matter.

Oh yeah, and I evacuated those orphans, and made sure they got homes. I'll wait while your head explodes."

Besides, he's a 4E character, so there's no way a cleric can tell him if he's good or not.

[Kylarra]

That doesn't work in D&D.


"I reject your shallow, traditional belief system and the weak, decadent moral code that--"

"Detect Evil."

"...god damn it."

Given the mention of Bael Turath, it's a pretty safe assumption this is 4e, and thus he gets to avoid being paladindar'd for now.
edit:lol ninja'd

That said, you could probably just play your traditional anti-hero, just try to avoid your typical slippery slope morality figures that comics and saturday morning cartoons delve into.

[Learnedguy]

Legend of Galactic Heroes, Reinhard von Lohengramm.

There you got it.

[Kris Strife]

I could be misreading this, but an Ubermensch is someone who has cast off society's rules on the grounds they are flawed and that he can make a better society by destroying the current one by whatever means neccessary and making their own code that of society right?

[bosssmiley]

Read Nietzsche. The Ubermensch is not a wilful iconoclast or conscious revolutionary: he's actually closer to a force of nature. The proper Ubermensch (not the banalised version) is a person who not only disregards social convention as irrelevant; but also, by his very presence, throws the absurdity of the existing order into high relief, making the continuation of the pre-existing society impossible.

Oh, and Sturgeons Law applies to the characters cited as Ubermensch by TV Tropes. Even Dr Manhattan is not a true Nietzschean Ubermensch; he's too apathetic towards life to qualify.

Re: Lelial's character concept. You could play him as an arch-pragmatist, or as someone who lives according to the Kantian categorical imperative, or as an entirely selfish sociopath, or... (yeah, the Nietzsche Wannabe archetype covers a lot of ethical ground).

[Tengu_temp]

That doesn't work in D&D.


"I reject your shallow, traditional belief system and the weak, decadent moral code that--"

"Detect Evil."

"...god damn it."

Just because a character follows his own personal code does not mean he's evil - what if he's rejecting the norms of the society and instead replaces them with something much more noble and benevolent?

If you ask me, what Leliel wants is very easy to pull off - just make sure that none of your character's decisions are dictated by a code other than his own, and often express contempt towards actions/stances that go against it. Make sure that your character's actions actually ARE good if you're going to be a heroic example - and objectively good, not just good by his own code (which might include stances such as "it's okay to kill ten to save a thousand", which is neutral at best).

[Aquillion]

Just because a character follows his own personal code does not mean he's evil - what if he's rejecting the norms of the society and instead replaces them with something much more noble and benevolent?

Then I follow up with Detect Good, Detect Law, and Detect Chaos. The problem isn't that he's evil, the problem is that D&D's morality is absolute and observable by strictly repeatable supernatural methods. You can argue against that and ignore those methods, but it's like arguing that the sky isn't "blue" because you use a different definition of blue than everyone else. It's silly to start philosophical arguments about morality in a universe where behaving good or evil causes you to radiate that alignment strongly enough for it to be magically detected.

...of course, that's for 3.x. I didn't notice that this thread was about 4.0.

[GolemsVoice]

Your character would probably shun the company of "lesser men", for the true Übermensch is a loner until he finds companions that are equal to him. He doesn't want slaves, followers or worshippers, but people who share with him the possibilities this new life offers.
Nietzsche also hated (christian) religion, and as such, his Übermensch rejects religion as a blindfold for the masses, along with pretty much all other social norms. How (or if) you want to implement this in a world where the gods are actual beings, whose powers are evident in the spells they grant their followers (if they still do that in 4E), you can decide by yourself.
The Übermensch is a warrior, and has a warrior's virtues. He is determined to the extreme, and superior in every situation.

"All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much in you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even now, too, man is more ape than any ape."

[shadow_archmagi]

Basically, I just read the entry TV Tropes has on the Ubermeschen, and my first thought was, "How can I create a heroic version?"

Although I already have an idea for one-Joshu Tabren, a young warlock who wants to create a new Bael Turath, in order to protect his adopted family/speices-I am still not clear on how to play him-ambitious and forceful, to be certain, but I'm not certain how to show the moral actions of a person whose rejected all other codes other than his own. It's not completely alien-he's still a good guy, just a particularly anti-herioc one-but still alien enough to the point where he takes most DnD morals and shoves it.

So how would you potray a man who find traditional social mores unappealing, to say the least?

Excuse me but I really *really* needed those three hours. Could you put up warnings before linking to TVtropes?

[Kylarra]

Excuse me but I really *really* needed those three hours. Could you put up warnings before linking to TVtropes?

It's like a bad drug. You only lost 3 hours? You must have a strong will save.

[shadow_archmagi]

It's like a bad drug. You only lost 3 hours? You must have a strong will save.

I'd been making breakfast beforehand, so eventually the smoke alarm went off. Also, I've been there several times before, so I didn't have to open as many tabs, since I'd already read them.