Dave Arneson dies

[Beren]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Arneson

Should we be expecting a tribute comic to Dave Arneson, co-creator of D&D, similar to what we got when Gary Gygax died?

Man, the guy was only 61. Younger than my parents. It makes me sad.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

That is sad news.

[Smoke_Rulz]

I confess to being one of the "younger readers" who was not aware of Dave Arneson. But I will join Giant in rememberance of him, regardless. Thank you for creating our hobby, Mr. Arneson. You deserve all the love and praise Mr. Gygax received.

[The Blackbird]

I think theres a rumor flying around that his condition got worse, but he's still alive. But I don't know if that was discounted or not. Wiki can get stuff wrong.

EDIT: Nevermind, I checked.

RIP Dave, we owe you so much

[Morty]

The Giant said in a different thread that he's considering a tribute comic. And yes, it's very sad.

[Mannryu]

Yes we all owe so much to him... But I know that the memory and D&D and RPGs will live on forever. We will make sure of that. Right?

[The Blackbird]

Yes we all owe so much to him... But I know that the memory and D&D and RPGs will live on forever. We will make sure of that. Right?

Damn straight!

[Ripped Shirt Kirk]

Damn straight!

We should start an RPG fan club! Go Baldur's Gate!

[evileeyore]

While we do "owe" Arneson and Gygax props for what we see as Modern Roleplaying games... I'm waiting for David Wesely to get his props for bringing Arneson to "roleplaying" in the first place.


Dave was good people.

[BlueWizard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Arneson

Should we be expecting a tribute comic to Dave Arneson, co-creator of D&D, similar to what we got when Gary Gygax died?

Man, the guy was only 61. Younger than my parents. It makes me sad.

You were right... you were right...

[The Blackbird]

We should start an RPG fan club! Go Baldur's Gate!

If your being serious, then I'm right on board with that.

[Mystic Muse]

in order for D&D to die they're going to have to kill all of us.

and I'd just like it to be known that my ghost will be vengeful and retain all my spellcasting abilities

on an actually related note. rest in peace Dave arneson and Gary gygax. may your games one day be hailed as the genius they are

[BlueWizard]

[Necron2.0]

The worst news. The pretender first and now the master. Worst news indeed.

[derfenrirwolv]

Ok, i need a theologian to calculate the height of heaven.

I need an engineer to get working on a giant catapult

And i need a blacksmith to make some very heavy polyhedral dice.

We can't have those two in heaven without proper gaming materials. Get cracking.

[Tehjo]

Just because I Feel this needs to be said each time one of the "creators" of roleplaying dies, here I go again...

Gygax, Arneson, and just about anyone else most attribute the creation of roleplaying to did not in fact create the game we love today. They merely took an existing idea and essentially plagiarized and published material already in use. Since this material was not copywritten, as the original creators and gamers felt that such needs were unnecessary and gaming was free to all with an imagination and the desire to play, it was never brought up in court and the real geniuses behind it were never credited. They were swept under the carpet while the unscrupulous players who wished only to make a profit off of others work reaped the reward.

The man who should be attributed with the creation of a standardized roleplaying system akin to what we know today is none other than M.A.R. Barker and his system and world of "Empire of the Petal Throne." I know men who played this game shortly after World War 2. One of his players, namely Gygax, took the idea and ran with it, adjusting it and publishing the rules. Due to this, Barker was thrown out, his world reoccurring years later under Gygax's company. All knowledge of the original game was excised and purposefully gotten rid of in order to accommodate Gygax's claim of "the first."

Sorry, but I always feel the need to rant and reeducate whenever I see false information being spread.

[Mystic Muse]

roleplaying games have existed forever. it's not like they were only made fifty years ago. kids have probaly been playing cops and robbers for ten thousand years and while not as advanced is still a roleplaying game.

also can you show us where you get your information? the internet can be an evil, evil place.

[The Blackbird]

also can you show us where you get your information? the internet can be an evil, evil place.

Also see "OOTS House of Horrors"

[Porthos]

Sorry, but I always feel the need to rant and reeducate whenever I see false information being spread.

Talent borrows, genius steals.
-- Oscar Wilde

Nuff said.

[Raging Gene Ray]

The man who should be attributed with the creation of a standardized roleplaying system akin to what we know today is none other than M.A.R. Barker and his system and world of "Empire of the Petal Throne." I know men who played this game shortly after World War 2.

A quick 'Kipedia search shows that Empire of the Petal Throne was published in 1975, not shortly after WWII.

Also, this discussion should probably be moved to another forum. I'd hate to see a topic like this get turned into a bunch of arguing over some tangent that sprung up.

[BlueWizard]

It is good that we can all remember him here, and know or learn about his contribution to the world of roleplay.

[harami2000]

Eh.... apologies, I would rather not take this thread off track, but just to clarify.

The man who should be attributed with the creation of a standardized roleplaying system akin to what we know today is none other than M.A.R. Barker and his system and world of "Empire of the Petal Throne." I know men who played this game shortly after World War 2. One of his players, namely Gygax, took the idea and ran with it, adjusting it and publishing the rules. Due to this, Barker was thrown out, his world reoccurring years later under Gygax's company. All knowledge of the original game was excised and purposefully gotten rid of in order to accommodate Gygax's claim of "the first."

Barker created his world, complete with conlang, from the 1945-1950 timeframe onwards. This was an exercise in world creation at first, not roleplaying. Even pushing to extremes, the concept of interactive fiction was not Barker's, either.
As of ~1950 Tékumel (world of "Empire of the Petal Throne") was un-named in any of the documents Barker sent to Lin Carter as discussing his creation and general swapping of ideas. Nor does he mention anyone "playing games" in his world.
sample clip

Fast-forward to 1974 and D&D is released. Barker takes the rules and adapts them somewhat, adding his by-then more fully developed world and sticks all these notes in a folder. Then his group play their first game. The date, August 20th 1974; http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/24319
All these "happenings" eventually get to TSR and EPT is worked over and released for public consumption. The original players can attest to that. Ask on the link above, or Victor/badger2305 over here -> http://odd74.proboards.com for a hook-up, but read his latest blog on http://sandboxofdoom.blogspot.com/20...d-tekumel.html first, please.
There is no "rip off of Barker", since the lineage was Wesely -> Arneson -> Gygax and it was Arneson's group who were generally "ripped off" if anyone (not specifically on D&D, alone).

If you wish to search for an "original game", you're already too late in the timeframe, relative to Harry Otto Fischer and Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar which was written at least in part from their "boardgame"; that was in reality down to 1:1 scale and clear role-playing, with their characters developing over time.
The date, 1937.
(As an aside, that still wasn't "close enough" to modern RPGs for Gary Gygax to spot/use the hook. Although TSR released a version of "Lankmar" in 1976 - i.e. after D&D - Gary was actually sitting on that from 1972/3; q.v. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/451536 and still focused to the wargame aspect rather than the RPG potential in the original, which bore no relation to what was released).

Gygax, Arneson, and just about anyone else most attribute the creation of roleplaying to did not in fact create the game we love today. They merely took an existing idea and essentially plagiarized and published material already in use.

To get this clear, yes, many of the ideas were "already in use" but in somewhat different form and not in the clear lineage that led to D&D and the /modern/ roleplaying game. That is the key point, IMHO.
Examples would be the variable-scale "world games" of Hyboria (Tony Bath; early-mid 60s) and Midgard (various incarnations from 1967 (in Vienna, IIRC) onwards, but more as a PBM).

Sorry, but I always feel the need to rant and reeducate whenever I see false information being spread.

Likewise; 02c/ymmv, anyhow. Shared freely in return.

Kindest regards,
David.

[/OT-ish]

[Gez]

Shouldn't the news say "In Memoriam"?

[Jimorian]

Blizzard dedicated the new update/patch for World of Warcraft to Dave.

[Silverraptor]

Blizzard dedicated the new update/patch for World of Warcraft to Dave.

They did that for Gary too. I'm glad they pay respect as well.