Erfworld 155 -- tBfGK 142

[kagato23]

Wanda laughing like an Evil Overlord at a moment of Ultimate Triumph... that just can't be good.

Sizemore - he's probably a little upbeat because he can't hide his natural enthusiasm towards the fruits of the Erf - gemstones. He'll calm down.

As to being the richest side - basic economics takes over. The gems are only worth something, if there's a willing buyer.

Your forgetting some conventions. You spawn units in city, you don't hire them. Units have upkeep cost. And I'm willing to be that they have creation cost as well.

Meaning, as the richest side, Parson (who can currently set unit production, as I understand), or stanley when he gets back, can order massive unit production: and good units at that. If parson can set order rates, I'm sure he can make a good balance for defense.

Of course, who wants to bet that Stanley will want to start conquering others? He doesn't strike me as original enough to try a new plan... but he's now got the strategist that could possibly pull it off.

The battle for Gobwin Knob may well be over. Is Erfworld 2 the War for the Arkentools?

[Gatelover12]

I know it's a bit of a longshot, but could she be holding something besides the pliers? I could see them pulling a fast one on us like that.

On another note. Parson doesn't have his sword. Imagine being in his place. He didn't have to rationalize the deaths of all those people. He didn't have to dehumanize them. He didn't even have to repress whatever moral qualms he probably had (most people do) about destroying sentient life. He simply had "ruthlessness". Now that he doesn't have his sword, he has to deal with this with none of the defenses peoplke in such a position would normally have to put up. He's suddenly found himself dealing with the flood of emotions of giving the order to obliterate thousands of enemies, and even allies, in order to "win". I smell heroic BSOD coming soon.

Also, Sizemore looks broken.

(EDIT: Well, he doesn't have it out anyway, am I correct in remembering that it was always in his hand in battle?)

(EDIT2: Please ignore the striked out paragraph, I'd delete this whole post but it might be construed as an attempt to make the fellow who corrected me look like he was rambling about nothing, instead of right. Did I mention he was right? I'm just trying to show that I don't need my stupidity refuted anymore. :) )

[Kreistor]

first of all, that wasn't Harry Blackstone Jr, that was Erfian Dr. Strange along with the Scarlet Witch and Zartanna

No grey in his hair in Frame 1. Strange is in Frame 3 with grey temples that should be visible from the front. Dr. Strange also has only a moustache, and no chin hair. Note there are still a number of casters surrounding Parson in Frame 2, and from 140 frame 2, we suspected Blackthorne was lower left, beside Carl Sagan in the black tux. Strange is beside Wanda in the back.

[Kreistor]

I know it's a bit of a longshot, but could she be holding something besides the pliers?

How did I know someone was going to suggest that. Wait until next comic, Thomas. This was foreshadowed.

On another note. Parson doesn't have his sword.

He definitely has it frame 3 as he enters the portal, hard to see but there frame 5, and we see the scabbard again in frame 6. Where do you get the idea he doesn't have his sword?

Also, Sizemore looks broken.

Broken? No, I don't think so. We know he's hiding his anger at Parson, but he also has just seen the results of his gem shifting. He's a dirtamancer, which mean she'll be minig gemstones for a long time, and may not have to kill anyone in the foreseeable future. I think he just got excited about not having to kill again, because he just became monetarily valuable.

[Gatelover12]

How did I know someone was going to suggest that. Wait until next comic, Thomas. This was foreshadowed.

I know it was foreshadowed, I'm just saying that it might be something else. I could easily be wrong. I probably will be, but I would find it hilarious if I wasn't.

He definitely has it frame 3 as he enters the portal, hard to see but there frame 5, and we see the scabbard again in frame 6. Where do you get the idea he doesn't have his sword?

I overlooked the scabbard at first. Looking back at the comic (and the previous ones) now, it looks as if that whole paragraph was moot. I overreacted. I have no idea why I thought that. I really should've thought out my first post more thoroughly.

Broken? No, I don't think so. We know he's hiding his anger at Parson, but he also has just seen the results of his gem shifting. He's a dirtamancer, which mean she'll be minig gemstones for a long time, and may not have to kill anyone in the foreseeable future. I think he just got excited about not having to kill again, because he just became monetarily valuable.

That... also makes sense. Though I could still see him exploding on parson, for some reason. Though given my previous "insights" tonight, I'm probably wrong there too. :/

[RainbowConickJr]

I'm sure this has been speculated upon endlessly and pointed out more than once, but is anyone reminded of BfGK 122 by this strip?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0135.html

It seems fairly clear that Wanda is daring Ansom to touch her with the Arkenpliers, which seems to cause him to balk. It also seems like the thing that was taken from her may very well have been the pliers themselves, as opposed to my original assumption, which was Jillian.

Apologies if this is well-tread water!

[kagato23]

I'm sure this has been speculated upon endlessly and pointed out more than once, but is anyone reminded of BfGK 122 by this strip?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0135.html

It seems fairly clear that Wanda is daring Ansom to touch her with the Arkenpliers, which seems to cause him to balk. It also seems like the thing that was taken from her may very well have been the pliers themselves, as opposed to my original assumption, which was Jillian.

Apologies if this is well-tread water!

Doesn't seem likely to me. I wouldn't see Stanley able to go without mentioning that his side LOST an Arken tool at some point. Rather, I think she has some sort of understanding, innate or otherwise, that the tool was meant for her. What was taken from her was Jillian. And/or her full mental capacity.

[Whispri]

Doesn't seem likely to me. I wouldn't see Stanley able to go without mentioning that his side LOST an Arken tool at some point. Rather, I think she has some sort of understanding, innate or otherwise, that the tool was meant for her. What was taken from her was Jillian. And/or her full mental capacity.

Wanda wasn't always a member of Stanley's side.

[RainbowConickJr]

Wanda wasn't always a member of Stanley's side.

Yeah. If at some point Wanda possessed the 'Pliers, or was in some way supposed to be the one they passed to, it would have been during her time with Faq.

[roadkillcoyote]

"well, you see, Tool, some moron flew away with all our best flying units, some of our best ground units, our master class foolamancer and our only artifact. I had to improvise from there"

Well, if you borrow Stanley's ego goggles it will no doubt look a little different. After all, the coalition split and some of Ansom's flying units left because Stanley took off. Obviously his brilliant strategy worked. Just your basic low level spinomancy...

[kagato23]

Wanda wasn't always a member of Stanley's side.

Then that would imply that somehow Ansom got to FAQ and raided it first. Then Stanley just happened to find at least 2 of their casters for his own, which Ansom would have apparently spared? Yet at the same time, he perfectly acted as if he never heard of the city or it's story.

Unlikely. Too much complication when the simpler answer is that Wanda never had the pliers. Not to mention with Ansom dead, the ideal time for most of the reveals necessary for these assumptions is past.

[HandofShadows]

Parson is in shock and has every right to be. I have the feeling he isn't going to have to much time to digest everything though. Stanley will be back VERY soon. And I get the feeling the fighting is not over, not by a long shot. While Jillian will hopefull be brought around (spell broken?), TV will likely see GK as easy picking right now and try to take it.

Sizemore must have smoked some good stuf when he was in the Magic Kingdom, that's why he is so happy.

Wanda, oh Wicked Wanda. (how many will get that reference? ) Well, she has her hand on the Arkenpliers and she is attuned. There is even more to this than what it seems. It is nice to see that those of us that said the 'pliers belonged to Wanda from way back where correct. This is also seems to confirms part of the thoery that Ansome destroyed Faq. If the pliers where Wanda's he would have HAD to take out Faq to get them. As evidence that Wanda was attuned to the 'pliers in Faq, we just have to point to Wanda going and finding the 'pliers is a short period of time without knowing where they where when GK blew. In other words she sensed where they where, just about proof positive that she was already attuned to them (then add in Wanda was able to influence them she fought Ansome).

This does bring up the small problem of if the 'pliers where Wanda's, why was Ansome able to take them. We might have just seen the reason. A suspicion I had that when Wanda and the 'pliers where together, they might have effect Wanda badly in some way, like in lack of self contol or sanity. So Wanda didn't keep the 'pliers with her.

It would NOT be a good fake out for Wanda not having the 'pliers at this point.

PS I think Wanda has a special ability, "change costume".

[teratorn]

Yeah. If at some point Wanda possessed the 'Pliers, or was in some way supposed to be the one they passed to, it would have been during her time with Faq.

Or Wanda's side was destroyed by Ansom, she managed to flee into the MK and from there was hired by Faq.

[Gez]

Sizemore is interestingly two-faced. He showed none of this elation in the Magic Kingdom, and now he shows none of his guilt and anger.

Confirmation that the city had not fallen to the enemy. Lots of people wanted Parson and co to be barbarians because the city fell, but with no enemy troops to seize it how could it have happened? I suppose the few remaining uncroaked were in a dungeon chamber or something, where they haven't been overrun by magma. And likewise for the golems, unless they were made from bauxite. (Yeah, I said that already.)

[BLANDCorporatio]

Sorry guys, I need to get this off my chest ...

Oh My God! They killed Scarlett! You BASTARDS!

Damn you laws of probability and common-sense! Damn you all to boop!

Phew, now that's over with, let's return to the comic at hand.

So, Wanda got the Pliers. And there was much rejoicing. Need I repeat, yet again, how amazingly imba Stanley's side is right now? Several people have mentioned that we do not know what the Pliers can do, and that it would be epic to see Wanda uncroak the coalition. I agree ... it would be the absolute game-breaker. Like that time I got to -32768 skeletons in HoMM 2.

So no, that won't likely happen; more likely, if anyone at all, Wanda will uncroak Ansom, just for kicks. Or ...

... I still think that one of my predictions ("Parson and/or the trimancer will abandon Stanley") has a chance of panning out, as in Wanda goes on her own with a retinue of ashen uncroaked.

Also, rock golems rock. Is there anything they cannot survive?

PS: Incidentally, that is the Scarlet Witch in the first panel. Yea, good job guys *grumble*wrong Scarlett*grumble*.

[paddyfool]

Good one on catching the Dr Strange lookalike - I was going to say that.

I suspect the Tool's reaction will be suitably awed, meanwhile. And as for what happens in the next chapter... it's wide open. This arc, it be tied up.

[Kasavin]

Let me just say I will be very disappointed if Wanda suddenly elevates herself to chief villain. Part of this is based around me liking the status quo. Parson, Sizemore, Maggie, and Wanda make a good team and have a nice dynamic going. Whats lacking is the backstory that makes characters motivations make sense. Parson's is pretty well known. So is Sizemore's. Maggie, however, is a complete unknown. What she popped at Gobwin Knob? What does she want out of life? None of this is known, yet she's absolutely vital to Parson's side. Now, more is technically known about Wanda, but what is known just makes here a bigger mystery. Why does she fight with out compulsion for Stanley when he destroyed her home town? If she's going to flip, developing her character a bit more first.

But like I said, thats not the real reason. One of the strengths of the comic is th humanity of all the characters and the absence of "Good vs. Evil(TM)." Everyone's place is determined by the game and no one can alter this. They certainly try though, and some put on a pretty act (Charlie), in the end, they are playing their roles trying to make sense of it. Devolving that to a good vs. evil finale is just disapointing.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Well, that does explain the sparkles here. I had assumed they were gems, but since Sizemore said the mountain was mined out I had taken him at his word.

BTW - nice catch with the Wanda Laughing; subtle, that.

Also: anyone else notice how Wanda's new outfit creates a fanged mouth, with red eyes

[HandofShadows]

Then that would imply that somehow Ansom got to FAQ and raided it first. Then Stanley just happened to find at least 2 of their casters for his own, which Ansom would have apparently spared? Yet at the same time, he perfectly acted as if he never heard of the city or it's story.

Unlikely. Too much complication when the simpler answer is that Wanda never had the pliers. Not to mention with Ansom dead, the ideal time for most of the reveals necessary for these assumptions is past.

I'm sorry we KNOW Wanda if from Faq, just as Jack and Jillian are. In fact Jillian states that she ran into a castor from Faq and there was a pic of Wanda. When Jillian tells her story to Ansome you see Wanda in the pic with King Banhammer. As for Ansome not knowing about Faq, the moment he saw Jillian ridding in to the RCC the first time he woudl have been able to guess that she had been from Faq due to the unussual style of her armor (Japanes inspired) and had a lie all set up. Heck he may have even invaded the place and never bothered to learn the name of it. Also when Wanda tells Ansome that he took a lot more from her, then she did from him, his reaction is FULLY aware that he knew what she was talking about and she was right.

[HandofShadows]

Or Wanda's side was destroyed by Ansom, she managed to flee into the MK and from there was hired by Faq.

But there is a physical charateristic that is know ONLY to be had by people from Faq, the eye's. Wanda is from Faq. sm

[greywords]

Count me in the camp that finds it vaguely inexplicable for Sizemore to move so rapidly in his attitude toward Parson from the last strip to this one. It's not unbelievable, but I agree with those that this would be one good place for a bonus strip in the hard copy to help ease that transition.

Never underestimate the power of hippimancer hugs.

As to being the richest side - basic economics takes over. The gems are only worth something, if there's a willing buyer.

As others have mentioned, money "just happens." Doesn't have to be a shop to convert, stuff just pops an unpops. "Cleaning happens at dawn," remember? This kind of brought up another thought, though. Since Erfworld is basically a giant D&D game, who's the DM? I'd postulate it's not actually the Titans - they're hands of the greater overgod(s). One option is the comic authors, of course, but I'm wondering if there are other thoughts and theories.

Is it just me... or is Wanda somewhat, um... ...Eviiiiiiiil?

Be careful about calling any particular character evil (see comic 31) - Stanley might call in the dwagons on you. It seems like there isn't really an alignment system in Erfworld as simplistic as the D&D one - actions and motivations are more fluid in their "evil" vs. "good" nature.

So Wanda went digging... underground... in a recently active volcano's caldera? What was she digging with? It's not like she's a dirtamancer.

Not by specialty, but she's skilled at all varieties of magic.

As evidence that Wanda was attuned to the 'pliers in Faq, we just have to point to Wanda going and finding the 'pliers is a short period of time without knowing where they where when GK blew.

She may also just have cast a Findamancy spell, you know.

Also, rock golems rock. Is there anything they cannot survive?

A Yanni vs. Barry Manilow dance fight. Everyone loses.

[raphfrk]

Also, Sizemore seems to have taken what that hippiemancer said to heart, either that, or what we saw last comic was a side of him that he never plans on showing Parson.

He has already told Parson that he hates him because he has to kill.

However, the explanation that his smile is a front would explain the sudden shift in mood.

Also, he says "so beautiful" about the volcano when he is part of the link.

Nah, very unlikely, given that corpses simply vanish at the start of the next turn if left unattended.

Would be cool though.

They wouldn't de-pop until the start of their own turn? If it is GK's turn now, then they may not have depoped.

It would be a little unfair, if attacking and then quickly ending your turn caused all your dead to depop. It would prevent them being uncroaked.

The city was totalled right? PClips? Why haven't they reverted to barbarian status? Also, how did the uncroaked survive anyway? They are even more quishy then the regular troops.

Not true, they have a few units still alive. Even 1 unit is probably sufficient to keep ownership of a city ... if everyone else within a multi-hex area is dead.

On aggregate, I'd call this a win for GK as they are in a far stronger position now compared to their enemies when you compare it to when we started the strip. OK, so Transylvito can cause them some grief, but they are otherwise occupied and its not as If the Tool didn't get his licks in during the last fight..

It is totally a win for GK. They wiped out the enemy, didn't lose the city and some of their units survived.

All they need to do now is have Jack make it look like the city wasn't destroyed and still has defenders.

Since none of the enemy survived to contradict them, no potential enemy will know that it is an illusion.

There are 5 arkentools, counting Charlie's. *edit: Whoops, misremembered, only four. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0042.html

It is implied that there are more than 4, so there are 4 "known". There could be 8, which would give one per type of magic (or 24 if there are sub-types).

As to being the richest side - basic economics takes over. The gems are only worth something, if there's a willing buyer.

Not necessarily true. In alot of games, things like gems can be directly converted into money. No matter how much they flood the market, they will at least be able to pay upkeep costs (which are not likely to be based on supply and demand).

Also, things like 'rush-orders' in civ games will likely use a fixed amount of cash. This would allow fast rebuilding of the side. It may take 1 turn to rebuild the city walls (ofc, Sizemore would take ages .

[BLANDCorporatio]

A Yanni vs. Barry Manilow dance fight. Everyone loses.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Wait ...

[Kasavin]

The idea that Ansom somehow raided FAQ and took the Arkenpliers flies far to much in the face of Occam's Razor. FAQ has been touted as a "bubble kingdom" until Stanley invaded and conquered it in one turn. Jillian has never given any suggestion that FAQ was ever compromised before Stanley's attack. I'll give you that it was never confirmed that Stanley did attack FAQ, the fact that he has two of their mancers and has an army of dwagons makes it pretty much a given that the authors wanted us to believe.

Furthermore, if Wanda did posess the Arkenpliers, she didn't tell anyone, because Jullian would have been suspicious as to how Ansom got them.

Finally, if Ansom attacked FAQ, a kingdom with no military to speak of, why didn't he just annex the place?

I'm certainly willing to speculate on a deeper history between her, but this theory has more holes than a Florida ballot punch card.

[dr pepper]

Wanda, oh Wicked Wanda. (how many will get that reference? )

I already made that reference a while back when there was discussion of Wanda's relationships. I said there was only room for one Candyfloss.

[Renx]

Also, let's not forget that Stanley's side has several other towns/cities which the Coalition conquered. Now that the Coalition is gone, it may be that they simply revert back to Stanley's ownership.

Really looking forward for the Tool to come back.

[greywords]

Pics or it didn't happen.

Wait ...

Ask, and you shall receive. Fairly quick and dirty - have to head to work soon.

Note: Not for the faint of heart

[VariaVespasa]

No, the cities will have been awarded to the various factions in the coalition, or at least be garrisoned by coalition members awaiting a final division of loot, and will thus not return to Stanley unless he goes and conquers them again. It may be that if more than one faction had troops garrisoning a unallocated city then fighting may have broken out till only one side had troops left in the city, but in no case do any of them revert to Stanley. "Best" case the garrison wipes itself out and the city goes neutral.

[mortissimus]

Let's see... Parson gets to leave the Magic Kingdom without so much as a slap on the wrist, Maggie is perfectly fine after the most epic trimancer link we've seen or heard of so far, Sizemore is downright chipper about the previous day's events despite previously stating his horror and revulsion, Wanda has the Arkenpliers and is attuned to them, and Parson's side is suddenly fabulously wealthy. All we need now is for Stanley to show up with a horde of newly tamed dwagons, pat Parson on the back, and name his chief warlord heir. Perhaps Wanda could uncroak the whole Coalition to top it off.

Seriously, if Parson wasn't dreaming before, he must be now.

My thoughts exactly. In addition the rapid progression on the page and the emotional flipflops reminds me of dreams.

[Catbus]

Sizemore gets to go back to digging, Wanda has a Tool, Stanley should be coming back, if he's not dead. I hope Parson finds his crispy body, the Arkenhammer, and attunes to it. It would make sense for the Magic Kingdom to remove the threat of the Arkentools as well, and make Parson able to attune to all of them.

Prediction:

Spoiler

Show

Parson reforms Erfworld by realizing that the original purpose of the Arkentools was to create, not to destroy; by teaming up with Charlie to gather all the tools in one place; and by rebuilding under a grand alliance, in which Parson sells out Stanley to put Charlie in charge because, well, he just likes him better, and Stanley is a spoiled brat who wants to keep fighting. The rebuilding is funded by Sizemore's gems.