New Star Trek Movie

[averagejoe]

My best guess is that it's trying to kill as much meat as possible, knowing it can go back for the big creature. But even that isn't a very good explanation for why it would chase Kirk... unless it's strongly drawn to movement, or is suffering from the giant ice-monster equivalent of rabies or some other insanity.

If he was suffering from some form of giant ice monster rabies then I don't necessarily buy old Spock driving him off with a burning stick (where did he get wood, anyways?) though I'll admit that I don't know enough about animal behavior to do anything but speculate. It does occur to me, though, that if savaging isn't a viable option for life on that part of the planet, then it might make sense to kill something and let it lie if it isn't immediately hungry just as a general behavior, since the body will otherwise keep in the cold. But, again, this is speculation; I don't know a lot about biology.

[Dervag]

If he was suffering from some form of giant ice monster rabies then I don't necessarily buy old Spock driving him off with a burning stick (where did he get wood, anyways?) though I'll admit that I don't know enough about animal behavior to do anything but speculate.

You have a point. That was just a speculation on my part, and the problem occured to me almost immediately. I thought it was still worth mentioning, though.

As for the firewood, my best guess is that Nero didn't want Spock to die immediately and so provided him with resources to survive for a while, in hopes of prolonging Spock's agony. Not necessarily the smartest thing to do, but Nero isn't really very sane.

It does occur to me, though, that if savaging isn't a viable option for life on that part of the planet, then it might make sense to kill something and let it lie if it isn't immediately hungry just as a general behavior, since the body will otherwise keep in the cold. But, again, this is speculation; I don't know a lot about biology.

That was my preferred theory. The ice-monster will kill everything it can find, then eat everything it can find, relying on the relative dearth of powerful scavengers to make sure its kill is still there when it comes back.

Note that if I'm right, the ice-monster probably came out of this situation thinking it had won- imagine a bear that kills a deer, then chases a rabbit for a few minutes until the rabbit escapes down a hole. The bear is having a pretty good day, no?

[KilltheToy]

You have a point. That was just a speculation on my part, and the problem occured to me almost immediately. I thought it was still worth mentioning, though.

As for the firewood, my best guess is that Nero didn't want Spock to die immediately and so provided him with resources to survive for a while, in hopes of prolonging Spock's agony. Not necessarily the smartest thing to do, but Nero isn't really very sane.

I get the feeling that if you want someone to watch their planet get sucked down a black hole, you generally want them to stay alive long enough to watch it happen. I'm guessing Nero's plan was to capture Future Spock, dump him on Delta Vega, then begin attacking Vulcan, then leave once the deed was done and have Future Spock die either by hypothermia, starvation, or by getting eaten by some horrbile ice planet-monster-thing. None of which would be particularly great ways to die.

[Seraph]

My best guess is that it's trying to kill as much meat as possible, knowing it can go back for the big creature. But even that isn't a very good explanation for why it would chase Kirk... unless it's strongly drawn to movement, or is suffering from the giant ice-monster equivalent of rabies or some other insanity.

it could be that the bear-thing is of a species that evolved a foul or poisonous taste to help discourage predators, and that the monster went for kirk because it knows not to eat the poisonous animal even if it is bigger.

[Corvus]

There are people who know what the Matilda II is? Next we'll be talking about Vickers VIs, A13s, H39s etc.

[Philistine]

Indeed. Normally we try to keep that sort of thing confined to the Real-World thread over in Roleplaying Games, but occasionally it'll become relevant elsewhere on the boards. Here, for instance.

[Lawless III]

This movie had a terrible script. The dialogue was extremely canned and none of the characters seemed to be more than barely fleshed out cliches.

As an action movie, this was okay. I just expected better from Star Trek.

[Ravens_cry]

It wasn't my Star Trek.
But then, my Star Trek is balding Shakespearian actor in pajamas.
A sexy balding Shakespearian actor in pajamas, but yeah. This was the franchise that, despite silly science and worse fights, produced such compelling episodes such as the haunting The Inner Light, the linguistic mystery of Darmok, the explicit social criticism of Let That be Your Last Battlefield, and the very human tragedy of time travel of The City on the Edge of Forever.
Star Trek at it's best can be both thought provoking and moving.
I personally do not find this to be Star Trek at its best.

[factotum]

Two of those episodes didn't include any balding sexy Shakespearian actors...just sayin'.

[Ravens_cry]

Two of those episodes didn't include any balding sexy Shakespearian actors...just sayin'.

I thought it only fair to include some of the better episodes of another series, the one that started the whole business. That's why I said 'franchise'.
But yes, a sexy balding Shakespearian actor is the 'Trek I grew up with.

[Dervag]

it could be that the bear-thing is of a species that evolved a foul or poisonous taste to help discourage predators, and that the monster went for kirk because it knows not to eat the poisonous animal even if it is bigger.

Ooh. That's a good one.

On the other hand, the bear-monster would be an apex predator on any other planet. It's hard for me to believe that anything eats them except the giant ice-monsters. And species with few predators generally don't evolve to be poisonous. That's mostly reserved for species too weak to fight back against predators and too slow to run away (like frogs and beetles), because they need a defense mechanism that works just as well even against a creature you cannot hope to defeat or escape.
______

There are people who know what the Matilda II is? Next we'll be talking about Vickers VIs, A13s, H39s etc.

Oh, I don't care much for any of those. But I have a soft spot for Matildas specifically. Though the only one I ever got to see was in a sorry state; it took an 88 to the turret at the Halfaya Pass and hasn't been the same since.

[LCR]

It wasn't my Star Trek.
But then, my Star Trek is balding Shakespearian actor in pajamas.
A sexy balding Shakespearian actor in pajamas, but yeah. This was the franchise that, despite silly science and worse fights, produced such compelling episodes such as the haunting The Inner Light, the linguistic mystery of Darmok, the explicit social criticism of Let That be Your Last Battlefield, and the very human tragedy of time travel of The City on the Edge of Forever.
Star Trek at it's best can be both thought provoking and moving.
I personally do not find this to be Star Trek at its best.

The Inner Light and Darmok are indeed the finest episodes in the franchise (and maybe that Pale Moonlight episode from DS9).
So yeah, I think I would have preferred another Picard/Sisko movie. Or maybe, since everybody ages, how about something completely fresh. There really was no reason at all to do a prequel. Really. No reason at all. And there was especially no reason to create an alternate universe in the first five minutes of the new movie, basically painting a big, red "**** you" all over the face of continuity.
If they wanted another Trek film so badly, they just could have thought of a new crew, put the plot somewhere in the, say, 26th century and everybody would have been fine.

[kpenguin]

Am I the only one who wanted an Enterprise movie, preferably set during the Romulan War and ending with the founding of the Federation?

[Graybacca]

Am I the only one who wanted an Enterprise movie, preferably set during the Romulan War and ending with the founding of the Federation?

No your not, but I'm happy with what we got also. I've only seen the movie three times so far.

[SmartAlec]

If they wanted another Trek film so badly, they just could have thought of a new crew, put the plot somewhere in the, say, 26th century and everybody would have been fine.

I don't know about that. It's worth bearing in mind just how badly-off the franchise was. It needed something big and impressive and loud to give it a shot in the arm and get people interested. And when people think 'Star Trek' - that is, the general public who don't know Star Trek to a great extent, people who wouldn't necessarily remember the Next Generation and might not have seen Deep Space Nine or Voyager - if they think anything, they think 'Kirk and Spock', even if they aren't exactly sure who Kirk and Spock are. And it's those people, those potential new fans, who have to be pulled in to get some life back into the franchise and make it worth money again. So that's what had to be done; that, or nothing, because Enterprise was dead, Voyager and DS9 were over, something weird and new would have been intimidating to someone who wasn't already a fan and I would have preferred anything other than another episode of the Picard and Data Show (which was what the TNG movies had become).

Who knows, maybe if the movie spawns a couple of sequels and becomes successful enough we might even see some new Star Trek tv series. But right now, Star Trek needs this movie.

[LCR]

I'm just sick of all the prequels.
I didn't need the Star Wars prequels, I didn't need Enterprise (although the last season was okay) and I sure as hell didn't need the new Star Trek movie.
If there was no way of realising any other idea than this abomination (well, at least from a Star Trek point of view), they should have left it at that.

[chiasaur11]

I'm just sick of all the prequels.
I didn't need the Star Wars prequels, I didn't need Enterprise (although the last season was okay) and I sure as hell didn't need the new Star Trek movie.

Maybe you don't.

The franchise as a whole, however, very badly did. It was this or a steady slide further into self parody, obscurity, and oblivion, ending in the franchise being left with occasional DVD rereleases, and general public memories of, at best, a once decent enough series of Fi-Sci TV shows that steadily decayed into abominations.

Since it's a pretty freaking good movie, I feel the option Abrams and co went with was by far the better option.

[Graybacca]

Since it's a pretty freaking good movie, I feel the option Abrams and co went with was by far the better option.

I absolutely agree.

[Raz_Fox]

It's a freaking Romulan dump truck. The Romulans are no more likely to build an unarmed warp-capable ship than they are to become a hippy commune.

Permission to sig, Dervag?

[Dervag]

Permission to sig, Dervag?

Permission granted.

In my opinion, being sigged is one of the higher honors possible on the Internet.

[Lawless III]

I don't know about that. It's worth bearing in mind just how badly-off the franchise was. It needed something big and impressive and loud to give it a shot in the arm and get people interested. And when people think 'Star Trek' - that is, the general public who don't know Star Trek to a great extent, people who wouldn't necessarily remember the Next Generation and might not have seen Deep Space Nine or Voyager - if they think anything, they think 'Kirk and Spock', even if they aren't exactly sure who Kirk and Spock are. And it's those people, those potential new fans, who have to be pulled in to get some life back into the franchise and make it worth money again. So that's what had to be done; that, or nothing, because Enterprise was dead, Voyager and DS9 were over, something weird and new would have been intimidating to someone who wasn't already a fan and I would have preferred anything other than another episode of the Picard and Data Show (which was what the TNG movies had become).

Who knows, maybe if the movie spawns a couple of sequels and becomes successful enough we might even see some new Star Trek tv series. But right now, Star Trek needs this movie.

That is an extremely good point. I think you just changed my opinion of this movie. It still wasn't very well made, but it never was trying to be a real Star Trek movie. It had mass apeal up the wazoo (where such things usualy go) and that's exactley what the franchise needs right now. I'm officially swallowing all my complaints in hopes that the new popularity this movie brought will breathe new life into the franchise.

[Lunaya]

Another thing to remember is that this movie is not a prequel. It's an alternate reality. I can say this because in the series and in the later movies:

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Vulcan was never destroyed. Lady Amanda (Spock's mother) is alive and well. Kirk grew up knowing his father and Uhura and Spock never had anything resembling a romance.

If it's not canon, it's not a prequel.

[Joran]

Another thing to remember is that this movie is not a prequel. It's an alternate reality. I can say this because in the series and in the later movies:

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Vulcan was never destroyed. Lady Amanda (Spock's mother) is alive and well. Kirk grew up knowing his father and Uhura and Spock never had anything resembling a romance.

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Actually, Amanda died sometime between TOS and TNG; Sarak remarried another human named Perrin.

I'm curious what the next step will be. Will we ever see anything else in the "original timeline"? I think another movie is given considering how much money this current iteration made, close to 200 million dollars at the moment in the U.S. alone.

[Wreckingrocc]

Not being a star trek fan myself (I've watched maybe one or two episodes of the series), I found the movie surprisingly enjoyable. I thought they explained everything nicely for the newbies, and, despite my limited knowledge (pretty much only character names, some vague concepts, and old actors :P), I was able to follow it easily.

I loved it, but, coming from a non-trekkie, I'm not sure if that's saying much. I have some trekkie friends who are pretty pissed off.

EDIT: Though I thought there were a few too many coincidences (the wolf-monster being eaten just before killing Kirk, and Leonard Nemoy Spock appearing just before the red giant monster ate him.

[Nerd-o-rama]

You know, I do have to wonder about a few things in the changed timeline. I understand how Nero showing up altered Kirk's backstory and personality, and the circumstances of everyone ending up on the Enterprise. For the most part, other parts of the backstory were simply never mentioned. What it doesn't explain is, among other technical details that I ignore because Star Trek science is retconned often enough anyway:

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1) Why Spock and Uhura are getting it on in this timeline - nothing should have really changed for either of them, except maybe from a butterfly effect of Uhura meeting Kirk.

2) Why Scottie was stuck off in bureaucratic exile, unless this happened in the original timeline and he simply got out of it before joining the Enterprise crew. For the moment, I'm blaming this one on all the ******* around in space-time that the cast of Star Trek Enterprise did, since it was Archer whom he got in trouble with in the first place.

[Dervag]

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1) Why Spock and Uhura are getting it on in this timeline - nothing should have really changed for either of them, except maybe from a butterfly effect of Uhura meeting Kirk.

In the original series, there's a bit of (for lack of a better term) chemistry between Uhura and Spock. Uhura flirts with Spock a little, although it's clear she doesn't take it very seriously.

I suggest that what we see in the new movie is related to that. We're seeing a younger, less mature Uhura. An Uhura who views Spock as a mentor, and who see Spock suffer a horrible disaster. She reacts to stress in a very human way. I don't think it's an unfaithful image of the character given the changes in circumstances.

Note that I think it would be a bit off-key if they wind up as an item.

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2) Why Scottie was stuck off in bureaucratic exile, unless this happened in the original timeline and he simply got out of it before joining the Enterprise crew. For the moment, I'm blaming this one on all the ******* around in space-time that the cast of Star Trek Enterprise did, since it was Archer whom he got in trouble with in the first place.

It's a good place to put the blame.

The whole point of the butterfly effect is that things which happen a substantial period of time after the change will be different in unpredictable ways. Scotty trying to demonstrate that his theories about long-range teleportation work is not out of character. Scotty trying it with an admiral's prize beagle sounds like the kind of thing he'd only try when he's drunk... but he gets drunk once in a while.

So it's not alien to the basic nature of the man for something like that to have happened to him.

[Stormthorn]

Well, I may be an idiot, but at least I can take consolation in the fact that most of the human race is similarly idiotic while I work on my graduate degree in physics.

Seconded. Only im a few years behind him on the degree and its Psychology.

Since the black holes mass increases the longer it's existing space-time should actually be MORE bent is you enter later and thus send you to a point in history that is further away from the one you started at.

Well black holes do sorta dissolve by emmiting radiaiton.
Dont know how fast they do it tho.

edit: My Boy has an inquiry: Why was a mining ship armed up the wazoo, and why was that hugefriggingmongous Lovecraftian monstrosity only manned by about 8 people?

Didnt need more? Watch Alien. That thing they tow must be HUGE but its just their tiny crew. If im remembering the mvoie right, which i may not be, being of poor memory.

ALSO

This movie was fairly terrible if you actually expected any sort of real quality. The plot was thin and full of holes (most of which have been discussed to death already), and the characters were all completely one dimensional. It was frustrating how shallow they all were. Instead of creating empathy through character developement and showing you their personalities, they just used the situations to try to make you like them and allowed one trait become their whole personalities. Kirk's the jocular bad ass, Spock is cold and logical. Who cares? They're bland, uninteresting, and generic. Don't even get me started on the dialogue. It was like a bad fan-fiction (I realize the phrase "bad fan-fiction" is redundant.) "I bet you're feeling really emotional right now!"

I wish I could unwatch this movie. Actually, I'm loathe to even call it a movie. It is in fact an insult to all serious film. However, no one wanted to watch a film. They wanted green women, explosions, and nostalgia. This thing was just a giant checklist of memorable lines and characters. Beam me up, Scotty? Check. Live long and prosper? Check. The words logical, illogical, and emotional? Check. Check. Check. Check check check check check check check check check check check check check check check check. Please let me just die before anyone says any of those words again!

Despite this, I completely understand why most of you enjoyed this movie. It was full of high fructose

I rest my case.

[BlueWizard]

Great Movie! Loved McCoy {Urban}.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, it wasn't Dawson's Creek. . .IN SPACE! which I feared it would be, so that's something in its favor.
But alas, it wasn't my kind of flick. Am I the only one who was more then a little aghast by young Spock marooning Kirk on the ice planet?
The only reason Kirk survived was because old Spock saving his life, of whom young Spock knew nothing about. So basically a Captain of a Starfleet vessel attempts to murder a cadet. And by the end of the film (the very end) they are chumming in a way that is delightfully reminiscent of Spock and Jim from The Original Series? Am I missing something?
And what happened to the brig? Admittedly Spock knows Kirk is clever and may try something, but that is why they invented sedatives dammit.
I am happy to see new ideas injected into the franchise, but when the newcomers see the movie, then look at the source materials, there's going to be a major mood whiplash. Nothing really relates.
I am not saying there wasn't some awesome coolness in this movie, I just don't see how it really fits with the rest.

[Joran]

But alas, it wasn't my kind of flick. Am I the only one who was more then a little aghast by young Spock marooning Kirk on the ice planet?
The only reason Kirk survived was because old Spock saving his life, of whom young Spock knew nothing about. So basically a Captain of a Starfleet vessel attempts to murder a cadet.

Well, I had the feeling that Kirk would have been fine if he just stayed put inside the escape pod. The escape pod would have kept him safe and warm until the people at the Federation outpost came to pick him up. He only got in danger because he recklessly left the pod.

I personally thought it was a pretty logical answer; the brig might encourage a mutiny or Kirk might escape, but good luck to Kirk getting off an ice planet with no ship.

And by the end of the film (the very end) they are chumming in a way that is delightfully reminiscent of Spock and Jim from The Original Series? Am I missing something?

For Kirk, the mindmeld probably gave him a lot of insight into how Spock thinks, so that'd help. Spock is probably happy that Kirk helped him avenge his mother.

The part I didn't understand, which was addressed early, is why did a cadet just leapfrog through all of the ranks of Starfleet straight to Captain =P