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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    What people? As far as we were shown, there were only two people at the base, Scotty and the midget. Not much of a rescue team. They also didn't know Kirk was coming. They expected someone to be arriving with supplies at some point, but Spock apparently didn't inform them of the incoming guest or even contact the base at all. Eventually (and a rather fast eventually) Kirk would run out of food and/or air and have to leave the wombie space pod. And without the aid of old Spock, Kirk would have been big red monster chow or possibly dead of exposure.
    Yeah, the rank jump is a wall banger but it is "justified", if still completely illogical and nonsensical, by being orders of Captain Pike.
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    What people? As far as we were shown, there were only two people at the base, Scotty and the midget. Not much of a rescue team. They also didn't know Kirk was coming. They expected someone to be arriving with supplies at some point, but Spock apparently didn't inform them of the incoming guest or even contact the base at all. Eventually (and a rather fast eventually) Kirk would run out of food and/or air and have to leave the wombie space pod. And without the aid of old Spock, Kirk would have been big red monster chow or possibly dead of exposure.
    Yeah, the rank jump is a wall banger but it is "justified", if still completely illogical and nonsensical, by being orders of Captain Pike.
    Admiral Pike. Who is now unable to command the vessel he'd been assigned to. And then there's the entire crew vouching for him, his acing the classes at Starfleet, and the fact the man just saved the entire Earth (and quite possibly the whole Federation) plus a ton of those above him just bit the big one...

    Not "most logical thing ever" but it makes some sense.
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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: New Star Trek Movie

    But what about Kirk getting bumped to XO by Pike earlier in the movie? That made very, very little sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    What people? As far as we were shown, there were only two people at the base, Scotty and the midget. Not much of a rescue team. They also didn't know Kirk was coming. They expected someone to be arriving with supplies at some point, but Spock apparently didn't inform them of the incoming guest or even contact the base at all. Eventually (and a rather fast eventually) Kirk would run out of food and/or air and have to leave the wombie space pod. And without the aid of old Spock, Kirk would have been big red monster chow or possibly dead of exposure.
    I'd hope that the escape pod can both sustain human life for a week or so and has a distress beacon. I remember the pod playing a message basically saying, "Stay put and a rescue team will be here shortly" though I could be wrong.

    Scotty and midget person have a transporter, which could also save his butt, if they ever got the distress signal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    But what about Kirk getting bumped to XO by Pike earlier in the movie? That made very, very little sense.
    I think Dervag had a pretty good write-up of a plausible reason why Kirk is XO.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=121
    Last edited by Joran; 2009-05-29 at 02:27 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormthorn View Post
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    I disliked this movie; although admittedly, I was always much bigger a fan of The Next Generation, anyway.

    Still, though. I found it laughably bad throughout the first half-hour, and eye-stabbingly bad by the end. While the actors seemed to take their work seriously, I don't think the writers did. I'm pretty sure they just thought they could get away with any-old-crap with the Star Trek title, since there just hasn't been one in a while.

    But, to be fair... it could have been worse. X-Men: Origins worse. Yeah, that was a bowl of crap.

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    And what happened to the brig? Admittedly Spock knows Kirk is clever and may try something, but that is why they invented sedatives dammit.
    Kirk's very presence on the ship proves that he has friends in the Medical section. Sending him to the brig with orders to sedate him might very well work... but it might also lead to a nasty incident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joran View Post
    The part I didn't understand, which was addressed early, is why did a cadet just leapfrog through all of the ranks of Starfleet straight to Captain =P
    The best (speculative) explanation I've heard is that Enterprise spent something like three or four years in dry dock being repaired after nearly getting torn into confetti by the black hole. We see viewscreens cracking aboard the ship, among other things. That indicates that a lot of the structural girders and such are damaged, so the ship is pretty much going to have to be rebuilt from the keel up.

    If so, then Kirk would have at least some time to rise through the ranks and gain experience. He'd still be getting promoted too fast, but only the kind of "too fast" consistent with his status as the hero of the decade, not the nonsensical kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepblue706 View Post
    I disliked this movie; although admittedly, I was always much bigger a fan of The Next Generation, anyway.

    Still, though. I found it laughably bad throughout the first half-hour, and eye-stabbingly bad by the end. While the actors seemed to take their work seriously, I don't think the writers did. I'm pretty sure they just thought they could get away with any-old-crap with the Star Trek title, since there just hasn't been one in a while.
    How is that different from the Star Trek tradition? The writers have always done things more or less entirely because they could get away with them.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    I went to see Star Trek a couple days ago with my brother, and we were both quite impressed. Admittedly, neither of us are huge Trek fans; my brother hasn't watched a single episode, and I'm just going off of what I remember from TVTropes. Honestly, it reminded me of the original Star Wars trilogy, in a good way. The action was entertaining, and the characters were enjoyable, especially the surprisingly tragic Big Bad, all of which made it really easy to ignore the niggling little details.

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag View Post
    How is that different from the Star Trek tradition? The writers have always done things more or less entirely because they could get away with them.
    I can't say I feel that any of the other Star Trek movies were particularly good, but the dialogue was seldom exceptionally bad, as I felt it was in this movie.
    Last edited by Deepblue706; 2009-05-29 at 01:22 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Yeah, throwing kirk off the ship wasn't at all justified.
    And then there was Zulu with the Katana. (In case it wasn't mentioned yet: Takei insisted on a rapier for "the naked time" since he thought a katana would be too cliché)
    Oh, and while they hinted that "They can die, the timeline has shifted" they should have followed throught with at least killing a minor major character. (Vulcan doesnt count. It's a planet. It's victims are faceless. And Spocks mum was too marginal for me to buy it either. Janice Rand or that irish guy would have been a good idea)

    Besides that i found it oddly fun. Maybe because i was prepared for anything after Nemesis and Insurrection, maybe because it really was. Plotholes? gotta agree... its star trek. It wouldnt be star trek without some major plot holes.

    Oh: And Uhura and spock? I think you are mixing up Uhura and Nurse chapel.

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    I enjoyed it as a stand alone film. Whenever i see movies like this i forget that anything came before or i will be deeply disappointed. The only exception was serenity. i lurve that movie
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  12. - Top - End - #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    THIS LOOKS SHOPPED I CAN TELL FROM SOME OF THE PIXELS AND FROM SEEING QUITE A FEW SHOPS IN MY TIME

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    So basically a Captain of a Starfleet vessel attempts to murder a cadet. And by the end of the film (the very end) they are chumming in a way that is delightfully reminiscent of Spock and Jim from The Original Series? Am I missing something?
    The plan was for him to stay in the pod and for him to be picked up by people in the nearby base when the pods beacon alerted them of his presence. The fact that it didnt work out wasnt something spock could foresee.

  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Oh, and while they hinted that "They can die, the timeline has shifted" they should have followed throught with at least killing a minor major character. (Vulcan doesnt count. It's a planet. It's victims are faceless. And Spocks mum was too marginal for me to buy it either. Janice Rand or that irish guy would have been a good idea)
    Good point.

    Oh: And Uhura and spock? I think you are mixing up Uhura and Nurse chapel.
    There's some justification in the original series; Uhura did flirt with Spock. Of course, it was pretty much one sided and she wasn't very serious, but that was a more mature Uhura we were seeing... and it's fairly one sided even here.
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  14. - Top - End - #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Am I the only one who wanted an Enterprise movie, preferably set during the Romulan War and ending with the founding of the Federation?
    Dude Im totaly with you on this.

    I loved the set of Enterprise, the cast, characters and sence of discovery of the show. Not only this but the characters where peaple are generation could really ralate to. Archer was a U2 (oldies) fan. A movie with this crew would have been great.

    Exept Trip's 'death' was lame and poorly written. Do to a rush job on the last show. Which was retconned in the novels. I face palmed on the line 'polarize the hull plating'. Last, the core of the series plot was time travel. This could have been 'forgotten' about in a movie.

  15. - Top - End - #315
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    Alright, I just got back from seeing the movie and was quite pleased. For me, the whole notion/plot device of the alternate reality and time travel takes most of the issues involving Star Trek cannon out of the equation, and skirt around the predicament for the most part. Although Spock's mother dying did annoy me some at first. But as I thought about it a little more, this has certainly been done before in ST:TNG with the episode Yesterday's Enterprise and the repercussions of said episode. Not to mention time travel has been done quite a bit throughout the series', as I can think of instances in the original, NG, and DS, off the top of my head. I was never really able to get into the original as much due to it being a bit before my time, and grew up in the midst of the movies, next gen, and DS9. I really did like that Spock's emotional side was brought out, as we've found out in NG episodes that emotion is a very big part of Vulcan history, so it was finally nice to see that aspect of things get some air time. After Enterprise, I had thought that the Star Trek franchise had pretty much come to a horrible and disappointing end, and that it was quite a pity to have completely destroyed an tv icon the way they did. But, I firmly believe after seeing the flick, that Abrams has successfully brought Star Trek to a whole new generation with this. Another movie is already in the works, and I'm actually hoping that he may eventually take the helm and jump back to the small screen for a new Star Trek series. After his successes with LOST and Fringe, I think that would be the next LOGICAL step.
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  16. - Top - End - #316
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    Finally saw this and, um, wow. That was awesome.

    My favorite was the part near the beginning of the last act (or would that be the end of the penultimate act?) where Chekov comes up with the plan to hide in Saturn's magnetic field, which is dependent on Sulu's piloting, and so on and the entire crew's standing together. Even if it wasn't realistic, I like that it was basically the crew's "rag-tag misfit" nature that made everything work out (like, they survived only because someone got "lungworm" and Sulu took over, but was a little slow, and because Kirk put everything together, etc).

    Also, special effects were win.

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  17. - Top - End - #317
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    well... except for the whole "how fast is warp again" thing ... because saturn - earth is quite a hop: 70 lightminutes when they are at their closest.

    I know, i know, red matter and all but while that stuff is just a way to say "we really didn't want to name our magic pixie dust" and i can't know what it might possible be, the other i *can* (or could if anybody had any idea how fast warp is and how fast you can decelerate) and it therefore stretches my suspension of disbelieve a little further.

    But yes: nice how they stood around. just like old times :)

  18. - Top - End - #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by magellan View Post
    well... except for the whole "how fast is warp again" thing ... because saturn - earth is quite a hop: 70 lightminutes when they are at their closest.
    Yes, but if warp travel can cover interstellar distances (even fairly short ones on the order of 10 to 30 light years) in anything less than months, Earth to Saturn should take seconds.
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  19. - Top - End - #319
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    As i said: how fast is warp?
    Wait a sec: am i remembering this correctly? the enterprise drops out of warp at saturn to disguise that fact, and then rides towards earth sublight?
    Ok, that one doesn't work at all.
    Warping from saturn to earth again leads us to the question how fast is warp and how far from your destination do you need to drop out to decelerate (and why take a tour of saturn first in the first place).
    I honestly can't recall what exactly it was they did.

    It's nothing major, just slightly rubbed me the wrong way. popping up behind something closer like earth or moon would have rubbed me a lot less personaly. (But hiding behind a planet was already done in wrath of khan)

  20. - Top - End - #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by magellan View Post
    As i said: how fast is warp?
    It's a bunch of different speeds, and they all seemed faster in this movie than in other sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by magellan View Post
    Wait a sec: am i remembering this correctly? the enterprise drops out of warp at saturn to disguise that fact, and then rides towards earth sublight?
    They warp to Saturn to get in-system but remain hidden. They beam Kirk and Spock from Saturn to Earth orbit. Then, they warp to the rescue intra-system.

  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    It's a bunch of different speeds, and they all seemed faster in this movie than in other sources.
    I believe that the stuff we see in this movie can be reconciled with the speeds typically used in the Star Trek continuity, which vary between about 100c and 1000c.

    And I think that's just as well, because if warp travel can manage sustained speeds much above 1000c, the entire plot of Voyager vanishes in a puff of smoke- yes, even the bits that make sense.

    The idea of Starfleet being able to zip around the galaxy at speeds much faster than that undermines the grandeur of the setting, in my opinion. In a universe where you can go anywhere interesting within a few days, there isn't much room for actual exploration. There's no concept of a frontier, and the idea of place, of one place being different than another, is a lot less significant.
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  22. - Top - End - #322
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    oh.
    In that case i totally confess that i am getting old and my memory isn't what it used to be :) sorry!

  23. - Top - End - #323
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    If it helps, Enterprise mentioned Warp 5 allows a craft to get from Earth to Neptune and back in 6 minutes.
    Last edited by SmartAlec; 2009-06-02 at 01:17 PM.

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    There's something I've just noticed: What about Capt. Braxton and his time cops? They were all over Voyager for, in comparison, minor transgressions, yet they don't intervene when someone blows up Vulcan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCR View Post
    There's something I've just noticed: What about Capt. Braxton and his time cops? They were all over Voyager for, in comparison, minor transgressions, yet they don't intervene when someone blows up Vulcan.
    We also don't see them intervene when the Time Ship went around erasing entire worlds from the timestream.

    This is one of the weaknesses of Star Trek; the writers willy nilly introduce new technology without really exploring the consequences of that new technology. One of the major examples for me was the one where the introduce a Federation sniper rifle with both a portable sensor eyepatch which can see through walls (privacy? What privacy?) and a teleporter.
    Last edited by Joran; 2009-06-01 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joran View Post
    . One of the major examples for me was the one where the introduce a Federation sniper rifle with both a portable sensor eyepatch which can see through walls (privacy? What privacy?) and a teleporter.
    I fell in love with that gun.
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  27. - Top - End - #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCR View Post
    There's something I've just noticed: What about Capt. Braxton and his time cops? They were all over Voyager for, in comparison, minor transgressions, yet they don't intervene when someone blows up Vulcan.
    They're Federation timecops. Chances are that in their time, there's some sort of complicated arrangement or treaty that each power's own timecops don't mess with other powers' business - otherwise the end result would be a continually-shifting time war scenario.

    So maybe Nero's out of their jurisdiction. Which means that it would be down to the Romulan timecops to stop Nero. And hey - maybe they don't care!

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    Well, there was a continually shifting Temporal War in Enterprise. Maybe that took up the timecorp's attention?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag View Post
    I believe that the stuff we see in this movie can be reconciled with the speeds typically used in the Star Trek continuity, which vary between about 100c and 1000c.

    And I think that's just as well, because if warp travel can manage sustained speeds much above 1000c, the entire plot of Voyager vanishes in a puff of smoke- yes, even the bits that make sense.

    The idea of Starfleet being able to zip around the galaxy at speeds much faster than that undermines the grandeur of the setting, in my opinion. In a universe where you can go anywhere interesting within a few days, there isn't much room for actual exploration. There's no concept of a frontier, and the idea of place, of one place being different than another, is a lot less significant.
    I agree. I have a couple of personal nitpicks to go along with this. In TNG, there was an episode where the Enterprise had to undergo a 50,000 light year overhaul. This after only 4 or 5 years. Voyager had to go 70,000 lys, so scaling that means they were only 7 years or so out of reach, a lot less drama if that's the case.

    But that was something that was written long before Voyager was even a concept, so no prob. What WAS a direct problem that somebody on the show should have noticed is with the "geography" of Trek space was in DS9, where DEEP Space Nine is apparently only 1 day's travel from Earth.

    Just in general, they never did a very good job of creating a sense of time and distance, and I always felt that was something that really could have added to the depth of the universe in exchange for just a little work. Some of the writers of the reference books have tried to retcon a lot of it, but since they're working from almost no data, it was never very satisfying.

    Overall, though, that's a relatively minor thing that's tickled the back of my mind. The great character work has always been the main reason I watched.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Well, there was a continually shifting Temporal War in Enterprise. Maybe that took up the timecorp's attention?
    He blew up a PLANET. A rather important one too. Think of all the things that happen through the series on Vulcan. Now they can't happen. Sure, there was/is a Temporal cold war going on, but they were able, with the help of Captain Archer and his crew, to stop an Alien Nazi from returning to his own time. Nero blew up the home planet of one of the founding members of the Federation. Besides, it's time travel, they have all the time in the world to fix it. More so.
    As well, there's some real fridge logic/wall banger in that the Vulcans have had warp drive for hundreds of years, yet they didn't create a single colony?
    I know the Vulcans are more insular then most humans, but it still makes little/no sense.
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    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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