Erfworld 156 - tBfGK 143

[BillyJimBoBob]

The only good thing is that if Wanda is telling this to Hamster it's because she trusts him. Wich means Parson now has one of the strongest characters of Efworld as his ally.

More like she has seen into his mind, as she refers to several times in this strip, and knows that Parson is no rival for her. Parson has no real desire to own an Archentool, or to build his personal power. Wanda does. And two people with completely separate ambitions can work very well together.

Alternatively, she has seen into his mind, and doesn't think he is worthy of any worry on her part. He is still fairly lost on Erf, and she is one of the closest friends he has. She prolly knows he won't attack her or hinder her plans.

On an entirely different note, Parson no longer seems as bothered by stairs as he was just after being called to Erf.

Haven't you learned by now that Parson has no real weaknesses? He is a Mary Sue, which does not make the story a poor one. But there can be no denying that Parson fits the Mary Sue trope very, very well.

[A. Hamster]

Perhaps the pliers turn dead commanders into nazgul, and dead casters into liches. Then anyone facing GK's army would have to save vs fear before they could do anything.

That seems appropriate for an epic-level artifact like the Arkenpliers. It would be cool to see Ansom, Waith Lord (Wraith Lord). Being a Royal, perhaps he'll have a ghostly crown floating over his head like the Lord of the Nazgul. If Wanda uncroaks enough Warlords, perhaps she'll have a band of Plierswaiths (the name can use some work) ...

Count me among the forumites who find the current Wanda sexy but scary. It seems like if you were to date her, you'd wake up naked in a hotel bathtub full of ice, and your kidneys would be missing. (Of course, Wanda probably will not waste material so you'd wake up as Uncroaked.)

[Midnight Roamer]

I don't know why anyone thinks Wanda was from anywhere other than Faq.

Because...

Plus, given the peaceful nature of Faq, it is unlikely that they would have somehow captured a croakamancer.

...it is equally unlikely that FAQ would have popped a croakamancer.

Plus, I'm not too sure a caster can change specialties, I think if they are popped a certain 'mancer, they stay that way even if they are good at another speciality and even prefer casting from such.

I agree, which makes it quite unlikely that a peaceful, isolated nation would have a use for a croakamancer. As some have said already, units may not even die except for in battle. Since it is unlikely that they would have a use for her and pop her, and you've already said that she probably didn't change to a croakamancer from something else, how can she be native to FAQ and not from somewhere else? I don't necessarily believe that, I'm just answering the question of why some people may. The conclusion fits the facts that you just laid out.

So now you know why some people embrace the notion that she was not popped there.

[T-O-E]

They probably can't control what subclass their casters are popped as.

[ComradeTaro]

Perhaps you pop a caster and what kind of caster you get is luck of the draw. A croakamancer stuck in a country with no real call for croakamancy would be a good reason for Wanda to develop skills in various unrelated branches of magic and it also accounts for other things such as her friendship with Jillian (both didn't fit in with the rest of the hermit kingdom of Faq) and her personality.

I see I was beaten to the punch by the previous poster...

[DevilDan]

They probably can't control what subclass their casters are popped as.

That's been mentioned before. It always struck me as a bit suspect.

[seans23]

Perhaps you pop a caster and what kind of caster you get is luck of the draw.

I doubt it, since everyone seems to have a thinkamancer.

[Thray]

They probably can't control what subclass their casters are popped as.

Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? The only casters we've seen that don't belong to Stanley have been Thinkamancers, which definitely suggests a degree of control in which casters you keep.

Besides, if FAQ didn't like Wanda, they could just refuse to pay her upkeep and pop a new caster.

Edit: Ninja'd!

[Goshen]

Wanda is basically letting Parson in on the cold, hard truth: The universe doesn't revolve around Parson.

QFT, Spot. In whatever form it takes, learning you aren't the center of it all is a grow-you-up lesson. IMHO, everybody needs it, but it sure ain't fun at the time.

Here's another interesting disconnect with Parson: He's absolutely brilliant, but he seemed to be only barely getting by in his "real" life. Mainly, he wasn't all that happy, even with his passion for gaming.

But when he entered Erfworld, he dealt with the challenges being decisive and effective. At first, his not taking Erfworld seriously must've been a help to him, but now that's gone. I don't think he's going to curl up, find a mountain, and play Kinko's all day. I think his experiences in Erfworld are going to make him very effective at anything he wants to do later on.

Maybe his next "Holy Boop" moment will be as it sinks in that there could be no end in sight for his being trapped on Erfworld. Maybe Charlie is trapped too and is only trying to make enough schmuckers to get home. (But I doubt it.)

Finally, Wanda is scaring the boop out of me!

[katyn]

The general impression that I get from King Banhammer is a player that's far too obsessed with the long term objectives of the game rather than concentrating on the here and now.

Imagine a game such as Civ4. The player in charge is not concerned with building units or upgrading them. Instead all he cares about is going for the cultural victory condition. To stay alive he attempts to avoid the other players as much as possible. What units he has are just there to maintain a cheap garrison and if he happens to spawn a Great Engineer then rather than attempt to rush a wonder, he'll instead save it for a golden age just so he can avoid having other players invade his city to capture the wonder.

If Wanda was popped into Faq, she was probably there as a worst case scenario contingency plan to save the capital or she was popped to aid Banhammer's philosophical discussions with relevance to death.

[BurntOfferings]

I think tis has probably been said before, but I suspect that the Pliers give the Croakamancer the power to create Uncroaked with all their original abilities. Knowledge, maybe. But I suspect an Uncroaked Ansom will still be just as strong a leader and will stay fresh. And an Uncroaked caster will still be a caster.

That's an interesting idea. I'm reminded of a certain croaked lookamancer; a lookamancer with a name; a lookamancer whose body could still be around, since it was moved.

[Spot]

Here's another interesting disconnect with Parson: He's absolutely brilliant, but he seemed to be only barely getting by in his "real" life. Mainly, he wasn't all that happy, even with his passion for gaming.

But when he entered Erfworld, he dealt with the challenges being decisive and effective. At first, his not taking Erfworld seriously must've been a help to him, but now that's gone. I don't think he's going to curl up, find a mountain, and play Kinko's all day. I think his experiences in Erfworld are going to make him very effective at anything he wants to do later on.

On Earth, he lacked anything he recognized as an appropriately-challenging channel for his skills, so his talents went unused.

Now that he's starting to wake up, and is realizing that (a) Erfworld isn't a dream or a fantasy but an actual world, and (b) that Parson is, in fact, the perfect warlord to end all warlords.

Turning Erfworld from a zero-sum never-ending wargame into a decent place for decent people (such as Sizemore) to live in... now that is a challenge worthy of Parson's skills.

[BarGamer]

I don't doubt that a lot of time and effort will go into this uncroaking. Whatever effect the Pliers may have had, Ansom would have been one of the most powerful uncroaked a master croakamancer could make. With the Pliers? This may be one of the most powerful Uncroaked creatures to ever walk the face of Erfworld. For all the reasons you state -- Royal, Chief Warlord, Heir.

Maybe it'd be an instant, full-effectiveness Uncroaking.

[Imgran]

If any caster got resurrection as part of their skillset it'd be a Croakamancer.

I doubt he comes all the way back. Heck, I don't even know whether Ansom is going to be any kind of useful unit or not, but I think he'll have his mind -- his real one -- because I think Wanda wants Ansom to see how badly he's failed. And then she might even just return him to the erf for all I know or for all she cared.

[Kilkrazy]

Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? The only casters we've seen that don't belong to Stanley have been Thinkamancers, which definitely suggests a degree of control in which casters you keep.

Besides, if FAQ didn't like Wanda, they could just refuse to pay her upkeep and pop a new caster.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Maybe to create a mancer, the ruler gives the build order, the money is deducted from the treasury, then a D100 is rolled against a table which could look like this:

1-50 = Thinkamancer
51-100 = Something else

The preponderance of Thinamancers on the Coalition side would be luck. Otherwise, there could be cultural factors involved if there is a choice. For instance, Ansom seemed dead set against Croakamancy, so Jetstone would not choose to pop a Croakamancer.

[R. Malcovitch]

Maybe the kind of 'mancer you can pop is determined by some resource. IE if you have, say, a volcano you can pop Dirtamancers, and Thinkamancers don't have any prereqs.

[BarGamer]

Maybe when you create a side, a Thinkamancer is auto-popped? Would kinda be in line with the Natural Thinkamancy stuff on units...

EDIT: Or maybe just sides that have a Thinkamancer are 'worthy' of playing with the big boys and girls. Thus, answering why we haven't seen any Thinkamancers with the other members of the Coalition. Just Vinny's and Charlie's.

[Kreistor]

Maybe it'd be an instant, full-effectiveness Uncroaking.

Well, I am not going to speculate on what the actual power is, but this I doubt. You're describing a convenience, not power. Stanley gets powerful units using the Hammer, but he has to Tame them, which if the word is accurately chosen, is a long drawn out affair. It might be synonymous with Subdue, from old DnD 1.0 which permitted capturing dragons, but that would be a dangerous combat. It's nice, but not anywhere near equivalent.

[factotum]

Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? The only casters we've seen that don't belong to Stanley have been Thinkamancers, which definitely suggests a degree of control in which casters you keep.

Conversely, way back in strip 8 Ansom complained that his forward intelligence was poor because the Coalition had no Lookamancers. If they could pop any type of caster they wanted, why would that be the case?

I'm also thinking that maybe casters aren't popped at all--that they have to be supplied by the Magic Kingdom. That might explain why there's a relative shortage of one type of caster over another.

[T-O-E]

If any caster got resurrection as part of their skillset it'd be a Croakamancer.

Or healomancers.

[Kreistor]

I'm also thinking that maybe casters aren't popped at all--that they have to be supplied by the Magic Kingdom. That might explain why there's a relative shortage of one type of caster over another.

That runs into problems with Loyalty (they would all have low Loyalty as mercenaries), and the capturing of Casters. If this were true, captured Casters would need to be returned to MK, and coerced Casters wouldn't exist, because the MK would put its foot down and demand that slaves go free, or they stop providing services to Sides that treat Casters poorly.

[Arkaim]

Or healomancers.

Or healomancers linked up with croakamancers.

[R. Malcovitch]

Speculation time!

The pliars' signature unit is obviously some sort of uncroaked, and there are currently limits on uncroaked effectiveness. Namely lack of free will and finite lifespan. I'm thinking that the pliars will enable Wanda to create some sort of Nazgul super-uncroaked that doesn't have either limitation. Ansom will retain his personality, but be loyal to Wanda either resentfully or willingly. The former would essentially make him her slave, obeying only through force. This I doubt. More likely is the latter option, in which Ansom's psyche is warped to include the same basic personality but unquestioningly loyal to Wanda.

This "brainwashing" option would cause some incredibly heavy implications in the (inevitable as the f*ing tides) confrontation between Ansom and Jillian. She might either snap and walk into his arms thinking he's alive (mental breakdown) upon which he kills her and she can't comprehend what just happened, leaving her to die. Basically the scene in about half of all zombie movies where a protagonist sees an infected loved one. Another option would be Jillian tears Uncroaked Ansom apart and swears vengeance on Wanda (right now I would put their relationship as strained but salvageable) which would probably cause Jillian's capture, prompting a dramatic dungeon scene.


However, considering Book 2 has "narrative distance" from Book 1 maybe none of this will happen at all.

[teratorn]

Corpses disappear at the beginning of the next turn - Ansom's corpse will go away at the beginning of the RCC's next turn (presumably Jetstone's), not dawn, as stated here.

Yes, but RCC is gone. Ansom will disappear at dawn.

[Oslecamo]

That runs into problems with Loyalty (they would all have low Loyalty as mercenaries), and the capturing of Casters. If this were true, captured Casters would need to be returned to MK, and coerced Casters wouldn't exist, because the MK would put its foot down and demand that slaves go free, or they stop providing services to Sides that treat Casters poorly.

Who says mercenaries always have low loyalties? Jillian had a fantastic loyalty for Ansom, to the point she managed to snap out of Wanda's mind rape. Perhaps they have low loyalty in the begining, but if treated well they become more and more loyal. Wanda didn't fully trust Hamster untill very recently after all, but now she's even telling him her power hungry plans.

As for capturing-hate from MK, I believe it's so hard to hire a mancer from the MK in the first place that it's better to go out there and capture your own mancers than waiting for one to become available for "legal" purchase, even if it means atracting some wrath from the MK. And hey, if they get paid, they're really not slaves right?

We're however sure that if mancers were sent to the magic kindgom and then their older masters died then they would become barbarians, aka independent units. Where they probably would offer their services to anyone else interested.

[raphfrk]

Or healomancers linked up with croakamancers.

Good plan.

I wonder if anyone actually tried it. Healing and uncroaking would appear to be opposites to a certain degree.

Given that casters are rare and linking up can kill the casters. It would be reasonable that all possible combinations haven't been checked.

Also, if only some sides have thinkamancers, and most have only 2-3 casters, then it wouldn't be possible to check some combinations, even if they wanted to.

[DoctorJest]

According to rob this is JUST before dawn when these events are happening, which is why none of the bodies are gone yet, Wanda needs to move fast to raise ansom or else she won't get the chance...

To the "natural thinkamancy wouldn't let Wanda betray Stanley camp" part of this is ONLY true if Lord Stanley the Tool, wielder of the Arkenhammer considers the holy artifacts of his gods less valuable than several cities, a point which is debatable at this time.

We also know Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley.

[joosy]

Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? !

Because the storyline requires a quick way for each side to talk to each other. Since they don't have telephones they all have to have a Thinkamancer or at least Thinkamancy scrolls.

i.e. the plot requires it.

[Welf]

i.e. the plot requires it.

Or good game design.

[Fjolnir]

We also know Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley.

"natural thinkamancy" (Loyalty, Duty, Obedience) is NOT a spell, no matter how many times people say that "Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley", the fact remains that ALL units are bound with natural thinkamancy to some degree, a good example of this is parson just before the trimancer link is sparked off CAN'T send Wanda, Maggie, and Sizemore away until he tries this maneuver. Since her Loyalty isn't very low, we must assume that she CAN'T easily betray Stanley unless she can somehow justify it to herself (similar to Jillian at the Dwagons, only not verbally.)