Erfworld 156 - tBfGK 143

[MadScientistMat]

And what's with Wanda suddenly explaining things? She didn't seem to be too keen on sharing before, even when it was important.
Of course it can all be explained (for example, Parson is only now seeing the results of his "work" in person, and Wanda could be thinking she has just won the game, so she's free to offer a couple of hints before ascending, plus the stress has just gone away and stuff) but it just feels odd to me.

I think Wanda is trying to comfort or reassure Parson that he hasn't been a bad guy - and that makes this strip disturbing on a different level, because it shows how far apart Parson's morality is from Erfworld's.

An Earth general who is in a hopeless situation would surrender to save his troops. For an Erf general, though, that's ordering his troops to pointless deaths. So when Parson blows up his own troops with a multi-megaton explosion, he feels guilty for causing so much death... but in Erfworld's morality, he's a great hero. Because he couldn't have saved his troops in any method, his only choices were, "Surrender and die," "fight it out and die," or "rocks fall, everyone dies." Under the circumstances, killing his own men was the right choice... but Parson can't accept that.

I suspect Wanda's comment that it was "hardly the first" apocalypse was no metaphor at all. If Erfworld is a game verse that has had several sequels, each game ending with some great cataclysm or apocalyptic battle, another apocalypse is nothing new. The way game sequel timelines often run, probably happens every 20 to 50 years. What passes for morality in strategy games is often simply rewarding you for accomplishing your mission, for the number of enemies defeated, for how good a minion you have been to your Overlord.

Erfworld has taken this to its logical conclusion - a great hero in Erfworld would be a great sociopath on Earth. I take back what I said earlier... it is getting darker.

[Bucket]

Wanda has been hurt - bad - by Jillian, and the way her spell over Jillian suffered such a catastrophic failure. Ansom is / was / is the root cause of that failure. Now she has the long-sought-after Arkenpliers, and - without even having to research their capabilities, here is what she'd likely do.

Hell hath no fury... She uncroaks her main rival, having him on hand for the eventual reunion with Jillian.

In a moment of high-drama, in revenge for "..what you (Ansom) took from me" - she gives the diabolocal lecture-ette, and touches undead Ansom with the Arkenpliers. ** POOF **

Dust.

[Oslecamo]

Prove that Vampires from Transylvito are uncroaked by a Croakamancer, Oslecamo.

Why do I have to prove it? Who said the only way to get uncroackeds if by a croackmancer creating them?

From what we've seen almost any kind of unit can be poped with money.

Mancers however can create certain kind of units whitout spending money, making it much more cost-effecient.

My hypothesis is mainly based on the transyvilto dance-fighting song. From there we I see that:

1-Like uncroackeds, transyvilto units decay.
2-Vinnie and the other warlords evolved from doombats wich leveled up enough, just like Stanley become a dragon riding artifact swinging overlord all the way from a simple pikemen.


Why Ansom doesn't despise Vinnie
Because Vinnie is a royal. Ansom is a super elitist, and for him someone who's a royal must surely be a cool guy. Plus Vinnie's not half rotten. Ansom is the kind of person who judges others by their exterior and titles. Plus it's very probable that Ansom's hate for Wanda's worck comes from the fact that Wanda made Ansom's elite troops fight against him. So even if they were shiny and perfurmed, Ansom would still call them abominations, because they would be fighting against him, a royal chosen by the titans.

Why does Vinnie has a free will?
Nobody said that all uncroackeds have no will. Like the other guy said vampires are normally considered special among the nonliving. Yes vampires are nonliving. The whole vampires are actually diseased people is very recent and really not part of fantastic fantasy.


Why non-living guys can hold a side:
GK stayed on Stanley's control with nothing but a bunch of uncroackeds and rock golems in there. Point.

[OverWilliam]

I am curious as to the 'Master Class' that we've seen mentioned. Can Master Class be applied to any level of caster like a template, enhancing their abilities over a normal caster of the same level? Or does Master Class just mean they've leveled enough times to have the title? A third option, is Master Class just in-game terminology for the highest level a unit can get? Is this restricted to just Casters or can there be Master Class infantry, if they live to level enough times?

[Goshen]

Yes. A "friend" that finds himself trapped in a nearly hopeless situation in another universe that he probably will never return from summons me to join the fun.

That would be the end of my friendship.

Hah! True 'nuff. Also, his "friends" didn't seem too upset when he suddenly disappeared.

[Thray]

I am curious as to the 'Master Class' that we've seen mentioned. Can Master Class be applied to any level of caster like a template, enhancing their abilities over a normal caster of the same level? Or does Master Class just mean they've leveled enough times to have the title? A third option, is Master Class just in-game terminology for the highest level a unit can get? Is this restricted to just Casters or can there be Master Class infantry, if they live to level enough times?

Master Class does not equal max level-Sizemore was always master class but he went up two levels in the battle. I'd guess master class is equivalent to having access to the highest level spells.

[Kreistor]

Why do I have to prove it? Who said the only way to get uncroackeds if by a croackmancer creating them?

Actually, nevermind. They did use the term "decay", didn't they. Sorry, shoulda read the song myself. Yeah, they used the word "decay". Now, it might be a metaphor, since artists do take that liberty to rhyme, so don't read too much into it, Oslecamo. But, yeah, I think that's adequate to demonstrate a life expectancy for all living units. (Before someone yells Transylvitians may not be living, bats are, and the song indicates they decay, too.)

[Ethesis]

Oh, this is absolutely gorgeous. As ever, Wanda is chilling and and calculating. And I thought of another disturbing implication: a major part of Parson's presence is that the casters of the Magic Kingdom wanted him there. The 'summon perfect warlord' spell was in reality a plot or even trap to lure some King or Overlord into starting the War to end all Wars. It did not work out that way in our world, not precisely... but perhaps that is what the Grand Abbie and her allies have in mind.

If I hadn't already fully been planning to follow Erfworld as far as the road will take it, this page would have convinced me to. The threads are coming together, and a tangled web do they weave indeed.

Indeed!

Things are really coming together.

[Suicide Junkie]

It could also be referring to their corpses decaying the turn after they die in battle.

As far as life expectancy, I'm sure it is very very short in Erfworld. You could probably count the days on your fingers. Grunts would drag down the average even if there are some rulers who have been alive since the beginning of the world.

[glissle]

Actually, nevermind. They did use the term "decay", didn't they. Sorry, shoulda read the song myself. Yeah, they used the word "decay". Now, it might be a metaphor, since artists do take that liberty to rhyme, so don't read too much into it, Oslecamo. But, yeah, I think that's adequate to demonstrate a life expectancy for all living units. (Before someone yells Transylvitians may not be living, bats are, and the song indicates they decay, too.)

The (partial) correlation we've seen between level / status and looking older is further evidence of life expectancy. However, the word decay might describe the disappearance of corpses after a turn. Or, TV might have a croakamancer and a routine practice of uncroaking its own casualties - though I suspect we're never going to see any uncroaked TV units, so as to maintain the enigma of their nature.

Edit: I guess I should refresh before posting if I go get a snack.

[Wakky]

Oh no! While reading these posts I think I just figured out the plot of book 2 and the end of the entire story! The bad part is I can't discuss it without the fear of ruining it for everyone else.

Or maybe my imagination is just working overtime tonight...

[Whispri]

Heh. I... was planning on stopping reading at the end of the book, but Uncroaked Ansom's make up for a lot. I'm also hoping for Lava Golems.

As far as dying of old age goes, I'll point to this. What's her name, the sword Princess was popped because of fears of conquest, not old age, she actually claimed he should never have had an heir, a ridiculous notion if age could claim him. Would Ansom have bothered asking why an heir was needed if the answer was so obvious? The girl is an idiot mind, and Ansom was a complete Ansom, but nevertheless, there's no way they could be ignorant of a concept that basic.

I believe someone asked what she'd think of this? But does it matter? She's done her worst and hated Stanley anyway.

As for Translyvyto, Vampires and Uncroaked, I see no reason why there couldn't be a side with Spectral Warriors for infantry led by Spectral Warlords and Casters with natural magic bonuses simliar to Transyvyto's powers of flight. Or a Kingdom of Ghouls or a side in which everyone's a Skeleton, a lot of the differences would just be cosmetic in game terms after all. Well maybe the Skeletons would be pushing it, but Liche and Death Knight equivalents for Casters and Warlords sounds about right. Does it really matter if rations pop in the form of blood, flesh or raw sorcery? As long as the upkeep has to be paid...

[ishnar]

oh.

My response to the whole, "how can Wanda keep going right to where something is and digging it up." Even though Steve already put out his theory, I just want to remind people that Sizemoretrimancer looked in the bones of the mountain, but Wandatrimancer was looking all over the surface. If anyone would know where all the troops fell, it would be her.

[Crod]

This is one of my favourite pages. An awsome discussion that tells us so much about both Wanda and Parson, I had to read it many times. Wanda is very, very scary and calculating, I just love panel 4.

[Moechi_Vill]

New comic is up.

Is Wanda going to uncroak Ansom? Is she even more scary than before?

nope, she's gonna super-uncroak him!

(hmm I hope he's not going to become a problem down the road)

Oh smeg nevermind, celebrate while you can: rejoice!

[EBass]

We have all stated that FAQ was unlikely to pop a croakamancer or capture one.

BUT Jilian states she did do merc work to keep the cash rolling in (and to amuse herself) it seems plausible that Wanda was a captured unit in the employ of another side who Jillian captured while doing merc work. If Jilian "saved" Wanda from the employ of a side who merely used her (perhaps in a link up) it might explain some of Wandas attachement to her?

Just thinking out loud.

[Gez]

1-Like uncroackeds, transyvilto units decay.
2-Vinnie and the other warlords evolved from doombats wich leveled up enough, just like Stanley become a dragon riding artifact swinging overlord all the way from a simple pikemen.

Stanley still looks like a pikeman. Vinny doesn't look like a bat. Also, read up on poetic license.

Nobody said that all uncroackeds have no will.

Yes they did.
Also, uncroaked casters function as infantry, and Bunny is a fully-functional thinkamancer.

Like the other guy said vampires are normally considered special among the nonliving. Yes vampires are nonliving. The whole vampires are actually diseased people is very recent and really not part of fantastic fantasy.

laff

Dracula-like vampires are very recent to begin with. Folktale vampires look nothing like Count Vinny. (Who is not a royal, by the way, just a noble.)

Why non-living guys can hold a side:
GK stayed on Stanley's control with nothing but a bunch of uncroackeds and rock golems in there. Point.

They're not holding the city for themselves, they're just being active units belonging to Stanley's side holding the city for Stanley. That's a huuuuuuuuuuge difference.

[MattR]

I think Parson's reaction to Wanda uncroaking Ansom will be more interesting AND important then his decisions during the battle, for giving us insight into how he views the people of erf. My money is on him objecting in some form:)

[teratorn]

I think Parson's reaction to Wanda uncroaking Ansom will be more interesting AND important then his decisions during the battle, for giving us insight into how he views the people of erf. My money is on him objecting in some form:)

Why? He needs to rebuild his forces as soon as possible.

[factotum]

I think Parson's reaction to Wanda uncroaking Ansom will be more interesting AND important then his decisions during the battle, for giving us insight into how he views the people of erf. My money is on him objecting in some form:)

He's had Wanda uncroak thousands of Coalition troops during the actual fight, why would he suddenly object to her doing it now?

[djharr]

I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! Now, I think everyone will agree that he very nicely fit the trope up until a few strips ago. In fact, he was almost a textbook Mary Sue.

Now someone will undoubtedly raise the lame objection: "But he DIED!!" Which just goes to show how unimaginative people here are. The fact that he is dead is only a minor character flaw, one of those nonessential factors that only emphasize how ridiculously overpowered he is in other ways.

Even though he is dead, he is about to have that small inconvenience fixed for him, as Wanda prepares to raise him from the dead using the Pliers, which will undoubtedly make him the most powerful undead creature in the history of Erfworld.

Now think about that. He died, yet, he is not going to remain dead, because of the artifact he himself was carrying. In other words, not only was he a Mary Sue before he died, he will doubly be a Mary Sue now because he provided his own means of coming back from the dead.

Clearly Ansom, not Parson, is the real Mary Sue in this scenario, and anyone who thinks differently is a narrow-minded cretin.

David

(And yes, I am mocking all the people who are finding Mary Sues under the beds, in the closets, at the top of Efedup....)

[VariaVespasa]

Master Class does not equal max level-Sizemore was always master class but he went up two levels in the battle. I'd guess master class is equivalent to having access to the highest level spells.

Er, as far as I know Sizemore has NEVER been labelled as master class, so your assertion is false. Can anyone point to any strip or source that says he's formally a master class caster?

[cover_bob]

I have a long shot theory here:

The reason the warlord riding the rammer said 'Titans...' was because for some reason they were able to identify 2 things: 1.) he has incredible strength and 2.) Parson is classified as royal.

The battle will go on and we will find out about all this at the end and for some reason we will all be afraid that the whole kingdom will be turned neutral despite defeating the alliance (like maybe the Tool decides to disband his kingdom when he thinks it is lost from a distance) but then the side remains because Parson inherits the right to rule (Royalty thing).

Then seeing that the side remained after it was abandoned, Stanley finds a new force by attacking the other alliance towns that are now unguarded and starts a campaign to take back GK by force. In finding a new ally in Charles Comm, who still wants Parson, they join up to defeat him.

Also, Wanda uncroaks the Prince and Bogrol and they become a pair of comic relief chars.

Looks like I called it!

[MattR]

One of the reasons why i think Parson will object is that Ansom was his opponent, he knew him well enough to make plans based on how he'd react to things... he had a personality, one Parson interacted with. I think Parson might have reservations about Ansom hanging around as a mindless drone (if uncroaking results in the usual willess kind). Theres that phrase 'i wouldnt wish the fate on my worst enemy.' He didnt know or have any kind of personal connection to the troops Wanda uncroaked. On top of that the decision to uncrak those troops was made during a life or death situation making it much more acceptable.

[MattR]

Looks like I called it!

There are just so many things in that theory that arent quite spot on =/ or at least far from confirmed yet... dont break out the champagne.

I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! Now, I think everyone will agree that he very nicely fit the trope up until a few strips ago. In fact, he was almost a textbook Mary Sue.

He's a Mary Sue because he secretly likes to wear dresses. There's no way Jillian would hook up with a norm after the kink that is Wanda :)

[raphfrk]

Master Class does not equal max level-Sizemore was always master class but he went up two levels in the battle. I'd guess master class is equivalent to having access to the highest level spells.

It could also be that each level range has a title, like

Novice, qualified, expert, master, grand master

If the highest level casters in the world are around level 15, then grandmaster might be level 12+ or so, even though technically, there can be casters much higher than that.

Also, Wanda is defined as Chief Croakamancer, though that is probably separate.

[galdon]

Yes. A "friend" that finds himself trapped in a nearly hopeless situation in another universe that he probably will never return from summons me to join the fun.

That would be the end of my friendship.

its not so hopeless right now though, they are low on units, but they are no longer under attack, wanda can start uncroaking as many units as she can this turn before they disappear, they are now the richest side in the world, but they have no commander units left, which would make it nearly impossible to continue to fight for the rest of the tools. they could wait and hope they can pop enough commanders in a city of rubble before another threat emerges, or they can use the summoning spell to get people parson knows are able to do the job.

also it'd be more cheerful than having parson have to croak or capture each of his friends as they are forced to try to kill him.

[fendrin]

Thoughts:

'Master class' may just mean 'really good' and not have a game-mechanics definition.

Transylvitians may be uncroaked, but there isn't much evidence of it. In the words of David Hume, "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." I choose to be wise in this instance('cause I don't always ) and thus choose to believe that Transyvitians are probably not uncroaked.

Is Wanda saying she is responsible for the downfall of Faq? What other apocalypse(s) could she be talking about, what else could she have 'wrecked and ruined'? She says it was predicted she would attune to the 'pliers. Either the predictamancer was really bad at his/her job or they were stupid enough to tell Wanda that she would attune to the 'pliers after the fall of Faq. Unlikely. I once again stand by my long-time (and perhaps unwise) claim that Wanda was Faq's predictamancer.

Hmm... if she was the predictamancer, she may have needed an heir to exist so that she could survive the fall of Faq, and thus told Banhammer to pop Jillian.

She also would have been able to allow Stanley to find Faq by not telling Jack the correct city to veil... or she could be the one who sent Jillian the thinkagram about the dwagons... or both... maybe for some reason Jillian needs to be anti-Stanley... maybe Wanda hopes/predicted that Jillian will croak Stanley...

I may be wrong, but everything fits and it would tie up quite a few loose ends...

[T-O-E]

A third option, is Master Class just in-game terminology for the highest level a unit can get?

Rob Balder said that there isn't a level cap.

[Ethesis]

I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! Now, I think everyone will agree that he very nicely fit the trope up until a few strips ago. In fact, he was almost a textbook Mary Sue.

Now someone will undoubtedly raise the lame objection: "But he DIED!!" Which just goes to show how unimaginative people here are. The fact that he is dead is only a minor character flaw, one of those nonessential factors that only emphasize how ridiculously overpowered he is in other ways.

Even though he is dead, he is about to have that small inconvenience fixed for him, as Wanda prepares to raise him from the dead using the Pliers, which will undoubtedly make him the most powerful undead creature in the history of Erfworld.

Now think about that. He died, yet, he is not going to remain dead, because of the artifact he himself was carrying. In other words, not only was he a Mary Sue before he died, he will doubly be a Mary Sue now because he provided his own means of coming back from the dead.

Clearly Ansom, not Parson, is the real Mary Sue in this scenario, and anyone who thinks differently is a narrow-minded cretin.

David

(And yes, I am mocking all the people who are finding Mary Sues under the beds, in the closets, at the top of Efedup....)

You know, not only are the strips getting better, the comments are getting better too.