Erfworld 157 - tBfGK 144

[instare]

If somewhere down the line Ansom breaks out of Wanda's control because of some "power of love" thing, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed. Just saying.

[Zombie Nixon]

If somewhere down the line Ansom breaks out of Wanda's control because of some "power of love" thing, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed. Just saying.

If he does disobey, he'll probably disband so it won't be that corny

[SteveMB]

Its also implied that TV abandoned the idea of chasing Stanley to take the city before him. Since thats where they expect Stanley to go.

Transylvito decided to investigate the Faq story and claim the sites for themselves. As for Stanley, there was no point chasing him, but he couldn't last long as a barbarian (see Vinny's comments -- since he's booped off everybody who might otherwise hire him as a mercenary, he'd have no source of upkeep).

As for the situation after the Coalition got wiped out, my guess is that they'll scout the site of Gobwin Knob and find it ruined (with Jack veiling all GK units and any signs of rebuilding). That raises the question of whether it's possible for an Erfworld city site to be ruined to the point where it can't be rebuilt -- if so, that's what they want to look like in order to discourage any attempts by other sides to claim the site.

[Pointyleaf]

If somewhere down the line Ansom breaks out of Wanda's control because of some "power of love" thing, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed. Just saying.

On the other hand, if he breaks off to get revenge on Charlie and to win Stanley's favor, that'd be pretty cool.

[Aquillion]

Hey, so, um.

Decrypt Bogroll? Please?

Misty too, assuming her body hasn't vanished (it isn't clear if moving and burying her prevented that for just one turn, or forever.)

[multilis]

"Wanda still has loyalty and duty to Stanley."

She was turned/captured somehow and captured units normally have low loyalty. She is under no loyalty spell.

We don't yet know the true backstory. Possible Wanda only was loyal to a prophesy that said Stanley was road to her pliers.

Having another dragon pop is a bit suspicious given we know chapter 2 will have narative distance from 1.

If Wanda believes that Stanley will demand the pliers, then Wanda might go barbarian and take whatever valuables she can before leaving.

On other hand perhaps in backstory Wanda made deal with Stanley that *she* would get pliers.

(We don't know his Toolship like she does.)

[Goshen]

Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...

Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side. Foxmud would be most likely, being Red's side.

[valce]

Yeah, if Ansom 'wakes up' I'll be upset :(

Would be pretty awesome though if Wanda made Ansom pretend to 'wake up' to trick the other side, and then when he actually wakes up nobody believes him and his own side croaks him :P

[Zictor]

Since no one got my Duncan Idaho (Dune) prediction i'm just going to say it.

Ansom will be used to fight against Jillian and Co.

Jillian and Co. will start losing

When all is about lost, Ansom breaks out of his uncroaked phase and becomes

un-uncroaked...thereby becoming regular Ansom again.

I got your reference, but I don't think they'll pull a Duncan Idaho here.
Ducan's role was too complex. Also, it was part of the Tleilaxu plan to try to make him reawaken his memories.

It seems that nobody really knows what Ansom is, or what Wanda is up to.

[the_tick_rules]

So maybe she can ressurrect troops whole now? That'd be total cheese.

[Saladman]

Battlespace...

<snip>

Each battle has a declared Battlespace. Each Side has a turn order, but only inside that Battlespace. Now there is no waiting for the activities on Front 1 waiting for the turns of people on Front 2.

Next up... how do you determine the size of the Battlespace?

Well, at day break, for each Side, determine what total area that could be reached. Next, determine where these areas overlap. Battlespace is wherever there is overlap. All units that can enter Battlespace are influenced by the Turn Order of that Battlespace. Units that are not capable of reaching Battlespace have normal day Turns.

<snip>

Or it might only amount to "no enemy units in hex (or moved into hex)." "Battlespace" may be a conversational rather than a technical term.

[Saladman]

A little thought: What happens to casters (and other special units) when they get decrypted? Will they stay casters/keep their special abilities? And can a unit be decrypted more than one time? If so, that would be incredible powerful.
Gk could send casters into the field and simply decrypt them if they croak. Use the masterclass foolamancer to veil troops, or send the dirtamancer with a lot of golems and some uncroaking and veiling spells to the front. And if it doesn't work, get the body with a strike force of dwagons. They could try to get an otherwise "useless" caster for fighting at the front.

We're told regularly uncroaked casters just fight as basic infantry. But that link back to page 116 is suggestive where it says "the more time and attention the caster spends uncroaking the unit, the closer it will be to its original strength and abilities when it was alive." With an attuned artifact, and as it seems that each artifact has a special unit... It's possible that Wanda can decrypt casters usefully, but we don't know one way or the other. It's likely Wanda doesn't even know for sure yet. I'd bet Decrypted Ansom is at least at his full strength and abilities, and quite possibly with a template or a new "Special" of his own. We have seen a regular uncroaked archon, so even if they are an artifact unit they follow some of the same rules as regular units and I imagine they can be decrypted, possibly following the same rule for their specials as casters.

I'd guess you can only decrypt a unit once, if only because it would be game-breakingly powerful otherwise. Even artifacts have some balance in wargames.

[Spot]

Dwagons pop! True Resurrection! So many questions answered!

I wonder...

...are Dwagons any different than say, Peeps, or Marbits, or Gobwins, or even Pikemen, in mental capacity?

Could that Dwagon that just popped work its way up through the ranks like Stanley did?

I mean... it popped into the world the same as the humanoids, so would it get treated like any other unit under Erfworld rules, or are non-humanoids like Peeps and Dwagons less intelligent under Erfworld rules?

[Spot]

Or it might only amount to "no enemy units in hex (or moved into hex)." "Battlespace" may be a conversational rather than a technical term.

My thoughts exactly.

[DevilDan]

I got your reference, but I don't think they'll pull a Duncan Idaho here.
Ducan's role was too complex. Also, it was part of the Tleilaxu plan to try to make him reawaken his memories.

It seems that nobody really knows what Ansom is, or what Wanda is up to.

If Ansom is Duncan, then that means that Ansom will be the real ultimate warlord (and more).

[BLANDCorporatio]

Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side. Foxmud would be most likely, being Red's side.

Huh? Since when do we know anything about Scarlett's side?

[nikx]

Originally Posted by SteveD
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...

Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side. Foxmud would be most likely, being Red's side.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html

Check the second to last panel.

[raphfrk]

If Ansom is Duncan, then that means that Ansom will be the real ultimate warlord (and more).

So, the spell has finally fixed its 'boop-up' and Parson was only a means to getting the perfect warlord?

[Kilkrazy]

It depends if a Warlord is a walking combat bonus or is supposed to create tactical and strategic plans.

Ansom clearly ha(s/d) higher leadership than Parson, and also made plans. Parson's plans were better, though.

Parson's Leadership bonus will increase with experience, assuming he can level up, which may not be possible.

Anyway, Parson can plan the strategy and Ansom can lead the actual fighting.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by SteveD
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...



http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html

Check the second to last panel.

Right, and they must know that through thinkmancer link. But can a thinkmancer tell the difference between loosing a link due to the unit croaking, or the unit switching sides?

It just struck me that if Parson spread the fact that Ansom betrayed the RCC and joined his side (and look he's still alive and working for us), that it would be a neat propaganda piece.

Should really have guessed that Ansom would be back from the panel he croaked. Too abrupt a way to go for someone the writers had spend so much time building up.

[HandofShadows]

I suspect that the Archenpliers can create only one or two units a turn. After all your creating a "super" unit, not a plain old Uncroaked. I also suspect there is a limited number of units that can be created/controled, but that number could be as high as 30 or 40.

[Goshen]

Originally Posted by SteveD
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

Originally Posted by Goshen
Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html

Check the second to last panel.

Aha! Good catch. Yes, word is definitely out.

[Kreistor]

Or it might only amount to "no enemy units in hex (or moved into hex)." "Battlespace" may be a conversational rather than a technical term.

I don't think that's possible.

Just look at Rations. They pop at dawn on the first day, After Charlescomm ends turn during the battle, and again at dawn on the latest day.

The rule, therefore, is that Rations pop at beginning of Turn. Turn start depends on whether you're in batte or not, determined by enemies in your Battlespace, and possibly by Intent of those enemies. If no enemies, your Turn starts at dawn, like everyone else in the world, taking turns simultaneously, but if you're in battle, you have a sequential order based on the Natural Turn Order.

On that first day, Bogroll already knows no one is in Battlespace, so he knows Rations pop at dawn.

[fendrin]

I don't think that's possible.

Just look at Rations. They pop at dawn on the first day, After Charlescomm ends turn during the battle, and again at dawn on the latest day.

The rule, therefore, is that Rations pop at beginning of Turn. Turn start depends on whether you're in batte or not, determined by enemies in your Battlespace, and possibly by Intent of those enemies. If no enemies, your Turn starts at dawn, like everyone else in the world, taking turns simultaneously, but if you're in battle, you have a sequential order based on the Natural Turn Order.

Or the turns of sides outside the battlespace take up no perceptible time (thinkagrams would obviously need to bring the observable flow of time into sync for the two sides temporarily). For most purposes, the two are effectively the same.

Consider though what happens when a side enters the battlespace of another side. If all the turns are simultaneous, you would have two sides in the same battlespace acting simultaneously, or you would need to have some sort of auto-turn-ending, or units 'frozen' in time waiting for their side's battlespace turn to start. All are somewhat kludgy rules.

On the other hand, if the turn sequence is preserved (but not perceived) when no one else is in your battlespace then all that would change is the perception of time, similar to the change of perception of time that let Parson know that there was another side taking a turn after Jillian, TV, and Charlie split from the coalition.

On that first day, Bogroll already knows no one is in Battlespace, so he knows Rations pop at dawn.

Or more likely he knows that no one in the battlespace has a turn before GK. It is pretty clear by that point that GK goes in the morning and RCC goes in the afternoon.

[SteveMB]

Or the turns of sides outside the battlespace take up no perceptible time (thinkagrams would obviously need to bring the observable flow of time into sync for the two sides temporarily). For most purposes, the two are effectively the same.

Consider though what happens when a side enters the battlespace of another side. If all the turns are simultaneous, you would have two sides in the same battlespace acting simultaneously, or you would need to have some sort of auto-turn-ending, or units 'frozen' in time waiting for their side's battlespace turn to start. All are somewhat kludgy rules.

On the other hand, if the turn sequence is preserved (but not perceived) when no one else is in your battlespace then all that would change is the perception of time, similar to the change of perception of time that let Parson know that there was another side taking a turn after Jillian, TV, and Charlie split from the coalition.

That's what it looks like to me -- Charlescomm and Translyvito still take their turn before Plaid, but since they aren't doing anything that affects Plaid their turns flash by in a moment as perceived by Plaid units. This is a game-like mechanic -- turns where nothing relevant happens go by quickly compared to turns where major battles or whatever occur.

[fendrin]

That's what it looks like to me -- Charlescomm and Translyvito still take their turn before Plaid, but since they aren't doing anything that affects Plaid their turns flash by in a moment as perceived by Plaid units. This is a game-like mechanic -- turns where nothing relevant happens go by quickly compared to turns where major battles or whatever occur.

One interesting implication is that all incoming thinkagrams from sides outside the battlespace would be clustered together just before and/or just after perceived turns.

[Fjolnir]

I would assume just before, though it might be a weird case of "Talking is a free action" but that particular night scene seems to imply thinkagrams before turns

[Happydork]

...As for the situation after the Coalition got wiped out, my guess is that they'll scout the site of Gobwin Knob and find it ruined (with Jack veiling all GK units and any signs of rebuilding). That raises the question of whether it's possible for an Erfworld city site to be ruined to the point where it can't be rebuilt -- if so, that's what they want to look like in order to discourage any attempts by other sides to claim the site.

If I were parson I would recommend that the veil be of GK at near full strength with only minor damage to the outer and inner walls. I would then use the dwagons to kill any scouts. The opposition will probably not send in warlords to scout if the dwagons attack in strength since the scouting warlord would die. No warlord = no way to see through the veil. The only way an intelligent side could break the veil would be to bring a large enough force in with a warlord to ensure that the valuable warlord would survive. After what happened at GK, I doubt anyone would be willing to take that risk.

[BillyJimBoBob]

And the turn issue on Stanley's end: I've only seen "Fog of War" mentioned once.

I don't recall it mentioned at all. But regardless, we know it exists. It has been shown. Check the third and sixth panels. The "foggy" hexes are those that the RCC has no intel on, including the center hex of the donut.

[Dr.Desastro]

All right, lets see, what is next. So we have the Erfworld's equivalent of a Death Knight now...i wonder, if Ansom the Decrypted (or perhaps Mason?) will remember, what he was in time. Also I am keen on Transylvitos next move - they were out of the coalition, right?