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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Minion992929 View Post
    Each Arken-item attunes to a specific class. ... That's why Wanda can. Sizemore couldn't use the Arkenpliars, ArkenHammer or Arkendish. He'll use the Arkendrill or whatever when it gets revealed. Maggie will get the Arkendish. Jack will get another one that isn't known about yet.
    This would mean that the Arkenhammer will only attune to a Piker ... or maybe just to a Warlord.

    I am not sure if Charlie will lose his dish quite so quickly. Unless, ofc, he is the target for Parson in book 2.

    Another option is that the 4th 'known' (but unknown to us) Arkentool is the target. Charlie seems pretty powerful, so if the 4th one is held by someone who it isn't attuned to, then it would be much easier to capture.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Ummm, of course it is a Deus ex machina. They are, after all, TOOLS OF THE TITANS (you know, the Deus in Deus ex machina?

    The Arkenhammer turned Stanley from a no-account warlord into a ruler with an air force so strong that it took the combined forces of most of the rest of the world to actually have a chance at whacking him.

    The Arkendish turned Charlie from ???? into a mercenary who is capable of fielding an air force that can both take out Stanley AND his capital in one round.

    The Arkenpliers have turned Wanda, who was ALREADY one of the most powerful individual characters we have knowledge of, by the way, into a Croakamancer of unparalleled strength.

    I don't see that this is particularly unreasonable. She was already strong. Assume that the Arkentools apply multiplicative rather than additive bonuses, then it is not surprising that the Arkenpliers would push Wanda right into outer space with regards to capabilities and powers.

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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Minion992929 View Post
    Even if he couldn't, if she kills him she reverts to barbarianism and sits around waiting to die.
    Not really, she'll have a huge army that doesn't need upkeep, and she can make units with no need for cities. If she manages to take a few gems with her she can pay for her own upkeep and that's all she needs.

    Besides, can't Ansom claim the ruins after Stanley is dead? Is he still a royal? What if she kills Stanley and then decrypts him?

    Not that I believe she'll do it.

    Oh, and by the way. Arkentools are sort of sentient entities. Can the pliers get along with the hammer?
    Last edited by teratorn; 2009-05-02 at 07:12 PM.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Minion992929 View Post
    See, Ansom is a big enough man to admit he was wrong reasnobly, and work with it from there.

    Parson isn't.

    Who's the better person?
    Err wut?

    Ansom got religion after being raised from the dead. No one is sure yet if Ansom's change of heart is due to sideeffects of the decrypting or is a genuine change of heart. Either way, I don't consider being killed and being raised from the dead a "reasonable" way to win an argument.

    Just where philosophically has Parson been wrong and refused to admit it? This isn't Parson's war hes fighting. Parson is fighting Stanley's war. Parson is just fighting for survival. The whole, if you disobey your existance will be ended thing.

    Ansom is going off in a Fanatical about-face declairing Parson to be the ultimate expression of the will of the Titans. Parson is saying "I don't think so" Parson is telling Ansom, "I was just talking smack dude." He's not claiming to be RIGHT.
    Last edited by ishnar; 2009-05-02 at 07:16 PM.
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by djharr View Post
    Ummm, of course it is a Deus ex machina. They are, after all, TOOLS OF THE TITANS (you know, the Deus in Deus ex machina?
    Okay well now we're just splitting hairs.
    Granted, they're godlike hairs of infinite size...

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Fascinating comic. I wonder how much of Ansom's change of heart is due to the Arkenpliers themselves and how much of it is due to Wanda putting her stamp on the decrypting?

    Concerning Decrypted troops: I can think of one limitation that would readily make simply killing and Decrypting your troops a less than optimum move -- if they become unable to level like regular Uncroaked, that would do it. Ansom may be stuck at level 10 now and cannot advance; it would not make him useless but it would make him lose potential. In the case of mass Decrypting, it would definitely be problematic; far better 100 living level 2 soldiers that may ultimately become level 6, 7 or even higher level troops than 100 Decrypted level 2 soldiers that never get any better. After all, you can always Decrypt them once they do get killed.

    Also, as mentioned it might not be possible to re-Decrypt a Decrypted once it gets killed again. That would be another big limitation right there.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by djharr View Post
    The Arkenhammer turned Stanley from a no-account warlord into a ruler with an air force so strong that it took the combined forces of most of the rest of the world to actually have a chance at whacking him.
    Err, this is the great western conflict. Not WW5. We don't know how big the world is, but by calling it great western conflict, I doubt more than 1/4 of the world's forces were involved. I actually believe it was even more local than that. My impression is that this alliance, with as many nations as it is, could still only have been a fraction of the world. Rome Total war had a Lot of factions, but the war theatre was only Europe, north africa, and the westernmost lands of asia. I doubt this war was larger in extent than the 30 years war. But because the nations seem to be city-states. It's probably even more local than that. I believe the forces involved are probably no greater than the Trojan war. Lots of "nations" but each nation being a city state means a whole different demographic that it does in modern times.
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Thumbs up Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Wow, now there's a specticle to behold.

    Rising from the ashes to become more dangerous than before, and to think that it was the coalition that brought the fire...

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    When Stanley gets back to the Knob, what does he find?

    First ... no Knob. He might blow his stack - most men get upset when their Knob is destroyed.

    Second ... a HUGE army of Elite Uncroaked - full brains, full talents, zero upkeep.

    Third ... a money source that will continue to fund upkeep and popping of elite and heavy units (like dragons).

    Fourth ... his worst enemy now a devoted follower of his Chief Warlord.

    Fifth ... multiple artifacts on his side (Arkenhammer, Arkenpliers, and Parson's wrist-comp). Each with it's unique powers and bonuses.

    Sixth ... everyone else is weakened.

    So what shall Stanley do? "The same thing we do every night Pinky ... TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!"

    Of course, now the issue is ... how Loyal is Wanda to Stanley? Can he compel her obedience? Or will she try to take over from him? (Stanley's an excellent Warlord and combat leader - he just sucks at being an Overlord. She might give him a job as Parson's assistant.) And if she does overthrow Stanley, what does that do to the summoning spell and Parson's enforced Loyalty?

    The Erfworld Saga should be getting intriguing in the next twenty or so strips.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    smile Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    Err, this is the great western conflict. Not WW5. We don't know how big the world is, but by calling it great western conflict, I doubt more than 1/4 of the world's forces were involved. I actually believe it was even more local than that. My impression is that this alliance, with as many nations as it is, could still only have been a fraction of the world. Rome Total war had a Lot of factions, but the war theatre was only Europe, north africa, and the westernmost lands of asia. I doubt this war was larger in extent than the 30 years war. But because the nations seem to be city-states. It's probably even more local than that. I believe the forces involved are probably no greater than the Trojan war. Lots of "nations" but each nation being a city state means a whole different demographic that it does in modern times.

    We don't really know, but I'm inclined to agree with you.

    A few dozen formerly-squabling city states, and a few associated non-city-dwelling tribes, and a mercenary forece thrown in to help, all banding together to take out ONE powerfull enemy?

    That sounds a lot like the Trojan war.

    The various warring states over in China at the time, had *armies* fighting each other, that outnumbered the entire total population of the tiny Greek city states at the time.

    So... if our ideas of the relative tiny size of the area being fought over by Stanley at the former-RCC is any guide, then the "seeekriiit FAQ conspiracy" to conquer the entire world is just barely getting started... and they are still the underdogs.

    Serious under-dogs.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    One potentially ominous thought:

    The royal radish motif on Decrypt!Ansom's vest didn't change into dwagons or hampsters, it changed into skulls... Wanda's logo.

    Is this significant, do you think? Are these new units loyal to Wanda?


    (Also, I'm not a first-time poster, but an old school poster with a new screen name).

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    What is more important is 'Is Wanda loyal to Stanley?'
    I sure hope so. Stanley is a far better ruler then Parson would be.

    Also, 'Will we see Ansom riding a Dwagon?'
    That's what I want to know.
    Last edited by Cracklord; 2009-05-02 at 08:00 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    ok, I have some concerning questions...

    Where did all those bodies come from??? It was established beforehand that bodies disappear at the beginning of the day if they are not moved. Only Ansom was moved around... though I suppose it could be argued that the others were, it seems like a weak excuse to me.

    Also, I'm willing to bet that decrypted units don't heal at the beginning of the day like everyone else. That would significantly diminish their effectiveness overall, and I doubt they can be raised more than once.

    As for some other weaknesses. Wanda has to be present to raise them... and she can only be so many places in a turn. As aforementioned, bodies disappear if they are not "moved"... so while it may be possible for every unit they kill to be decrypted, it would take some serious effort to do so.
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  14. - Top - End - #104

    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Bookkeeper@Arms View Post
    (Stanley's an excellent Warlord and combat leader - he just sucks at being an Overlord. She might give him a job as Parson's assistant.)
    Altough Stanley is far from being the perfect overlord, I think Wanda has even worst comand skills, since basically she doesn't really seem to care about people that much.

    Stanley is boss beause he's willing to take responsability. He can do hard choices and knows how to tell people what he wants them to do. Wanda easily falls in depression and prefers to keep stuff to herself. She's the perfect elite servant, powerfull and abitious, but not so powerfull that she doesn't need Stanley nor so ambitious that she would want to run her own side.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Ok, i magnified the decrypt army and it appears to consist of units of similar height. No twolls :(
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    So...Wanda is still under Parson and Stanleys control right? Because she is not the type of woman you want to give godly powers too and then turn loose.

    As a side note, how come the Hammers most useful ability is to turn birds into walnuts and visa versa, while the pliers can instantly destroy undead and rez people while simultaniously brainwashing them? Balance issues much?!

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    I've seen someone named Scarlet mentioned a few times on the thread, yet she seems to have entirely escaped my notice. Makes me feel a bit stupid, not noticing an entire character.
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post
    ansom is spouting off all the things that probably ran through his head before the pavement
    I find that unlikely. I think this new point of view has only come about since his decryption.

    As a side-note, I think I now find Ansom as odious as everyone else seemed to from the start. I like rounded characters - so the fact that Ansom was full of himself balanced off against the fact that he was a warlord who genuinely cared for his troops. Without that goodness, I find he just seems a bit... cheap.

    On the other side of things, I quite admired Parson when he flatly stated that he'd been "talking smack" to Ansom previously. It came across as quite professional and dispassionate: a general simply stating that he used whatever tactic he thought might give him an edge.

    As another side-note, I just reread the entire comic, and it reads incredibly well as a whole. Wanda, of all people, comes across as a much more complex character than she had been in my mind recently...
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by eminence_grise View Post
    I'm thinking that it's inevitable that Parson will be switching sides. You can't properly be a Perfect Warlord, from a narrative perspective, when the deck is already stacked so massively in your favor. Narrative demands heroes to be underdogs, and the last series of strips is building Gobwin Knob to be a serious overdog. Ergo, Parson has to find other employment.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up taking Charlie's offer now, probably also swiping Sizemore when he leaves, as it is pretty clearly indicated that Sizemore will be by Parson's side to the end (or nearly).

    There's also that fourth arkentool plotline dangling around loose. It would make for nice symmetry if that tool got dug up and put to use on Charlie's side, for a pleasing 2v2 War to End All Wars. Putting an ArkenShovel into Sizemore's hands has a certain ring to it, not that we have any idea what the fourth tool is yet. I don't think Parson will get his own tool, he's sufficiently plotworthy in his own right, he doesn't need any more help like that.
    Parson MUST stay GK because of the spell that summoned him as well as the fact that we know the dirtamancer will have to continue to support him. What is more likely is that the Tool and Wanda leave (not together). So it will be parson in charge of GK and his only advantage will be the gems and no tools. Which will spark an entirely new strategy system that will be awesome.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    smile Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormthorn View Post
    As a side note, how come the Hammers most useful ability is to turn birds into walnuts and visa versa, while the pliers can instantly destroy undead and rez people while simultaniously brainwashing them? Balance issues much?!
    The Hammer also lets you "tame" dwagons. That is to say, at a minimum let's you add them to your side's production queue, and (possibly) even tame wild ones also.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Decrypted units = "normal humans" as opposed to "game units". No upkeep, no Loyalty issues.

    Decrypted units = the end of the "game", the end of war.

    No wonder Hippiemancers were happy.

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Spot View Post
    The Hammer also lets you "tame" dwagons. That is to say, at a minimum let's you add them to your side's production queue, and (possibly) even tame wild ones also.
    I guess if thats the only way to get them then its worth it. I always assumed the taming thing ment they had bonus' to your build times and the stats of the critters.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Estelindis View Post
    I find that unlikely. I think this new point of view has only come about since his decryption.

    As a side-note, I think I now find Ansom as odious as everyone else seemed to from the start. I like rounded characters - so the fact that Ansom was full of himself balanced off against the fact that he was a warlord who genuinely cared for his troops. Without that goodness, I find he just seems a bit... cheap.
    In the words of the Tool, there is no 'Good' or 'Evil' side; there is 'Holy' and 'Unholy'. Nothing Ansom's said indicates he no longer cares for people under his protection- who, incidentally, were all dead and are now all uncroaked and working for Stanley.

    What's happened here, is that Ansom has had a religious experience orders of magnitude more powerful than we can imagine. He thought he was invincible, because he was serving the Titans. He died, and was brought back to life through the power of a literal tool of the beings who created his world.

    Given that this is Erfworld, there might not even be a loyalty spell involved...

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Has anyone noticed that Ansom isn't glowing red anymore?

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishy View Post
    What's happened here, is that Ansom has had a religious experience orders of magnitude more powerful than we can imagine. He thought he was invincible, because he was serving the Titans. He died, and was brought back to life through the power of a literal tool of the beings who created his world.

    Given that this is Erfworld, there might not even be a loyalty spell involved...
    Yeah. I was just rewatching Prince Caspian and the part at the end where Aslan roars at the dwarf who disbelieved him for so long...

    It's like being a believer, believing that your faith is true and your enemy to be faithless heretics, then you die because you were wrong and being resurrected by the grace and power of your enemy. You realize the side/force/being(s) you put your faith in didn't exist, but your enemy's "god" is very real.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Estelindis View Post
    I find that unlikely. I think this new point of view has only come about since his decryption.
    You mean a bit like the suggestion spell that lead Jillian to find excuses and rationalizations for the actions in favour of Wanda's side? It'll be interesting to see Wanda uncrypting another warlord.

    Parson with an army of dedicated fanatic warlords...
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    So let's take role now. Parson has

    * One of the best commanders in Erfworld by leadership stats

    * One of the largest armies in the world (if he really can get the entire uncroaked RCC)

    * Possibly the richest side in the world

    * Two ridiculously powerful artifacts
    - The ability to uncroak perfectly, meaning every slain army becomes his
    - The ability to tame dwagons, meaning he can horde what is presumably one of the most powerful units in the game
    - A ridiculously powerful croakamancer
    - A ridiculously powerful melee-overlord

    * One of the best tactical minds (+ ruthlessness)

    * Three other very powerful casters

    So here's my guess for the next pieces:
    Parson starts conquering the world.
    The losing side casts their own summon perfect warlord spells. They ask for some "who has beaten Parson before." They then get the people who gamed against him.
    Just an affable fellow, really.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Decrypted Ansom is... creepy.
    I like him. He seems to be devoid of all the pride he carried. He's now humbled, but to fill in the void where his pride was, something else is now there.
    Purpose.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Highwarlord View Post
    So let's take role now. Parson has [snip]
    You forgot his bracer, which has already been classified as an Artifact and is the equivalent of a Mathamancer all by it's lonesome. (Charlie was drooling after it as much as Stanley drooled after an Arkentool.) It hasn't been specified whether or not it gives any Artifact Bonuses in combat ... but it might give strategy bonuses.

    So here's my guess for the next pieces:
    Parson starts conquering the world.
    Stanley starts conquering the world. Parson is bound to him by Loyalty magic.

    The losing side casts their own summon perfect warlord spells. They ask for some "who has beaten Parson before." They then get the people who gamed against him.
    Very possible. If the Magic Kingdom informs them of Parson's origins. They might not if it conflicts with their mysterious goals.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Congratulations Parson, welcome to Ironic Purgatory where all your dreams come horribly, horribly true. Today you got to be a General, win against statistically impossible odds, and almost nobody had to die (permanently).

    What's your next wish?
    Last edited by small pumpkin m; 2009-05-02 at 10:40 PM.

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