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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    Given the fact that Stanley considered Parson a waste of resources, and Parson's huge upkeep cost (we still don't know if it's diminished after the Stupid Meal tools), he could simply dismiss Parson, 'cause he's a supreme leader and his side owns 2 arkentools.
    So, we'll have a barbarian Parson, free to ally with anyother side, against the unstoppable Titanic Holy Crusade.

    Well, i don't know if it's really a possible scenario, but still...
    Or he could order Wanda to kill and then decrypt Parson to negate his upkeep costs.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Or he could order Wanda to kill and then decrypt Parson to negate his upkeep costs.
    We don't know if decrypted units level up. Parson is still too low level to freeze his stats.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Or he could order Wanda to kill and then decrypt Parson to negate his upkeep costs.
    The BLAND Corporation is currently looking for an HR Manager. When can you start?
    The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Earendill View Post
    Decrypted units = "normal humans" as opposed to "game units". No upkeep, no Loyalty issues.

    Decrypted units = the end of the "game", the end of war.

    No wonder Hippiemancers were happy.
    Even with quotes, I have to disagree with qualifying units that don't require upkeep as "normal humans". See, I had an army of soldiers that I trained not to require food, clothing, shelter or any other commodities, but just as they finally learned the trick they all died.

    Same for "no loyalty issues", normal humans are quite often traitors, spies, rebels or mutineers.

    So, no. I don't think the Hippymancers' plan is to turn everyone into an army of Croakknights who want to conquer the world. That doesn't really sound like the type of goals a Hippymancer would strive for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bookkeeper@Arms View Post
    You forgot his bracer, which has already been classified as an Artifact and is the equivalent of a Mathamancer all by it's lonesome. (Charlie was drooling after it as much as Stanley drooled after an Arkentool.)
    Classified as an artifact? I beg to differ. Sizemore said "maybe artifact" because he didn't know at the time, but now we know it's been created by the spell cast by Wanda, spell which itself was created by people in the Magic Kingdom, which means it's only a magic item.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decius View Post
    1. No.
    Parson, however, is.
    Her loyalty is not compelled by a spell. That doesn't mean she isn't loyal. She's bound by Duty to Stanley, and it's not a spell because it's natural thinkamancy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Classified as an artifact? I beg to differ. Sizemore said "maybe artifact" because he didn't know at the time, but now we know it's been created by the spell cast by Wanda, spell which itself was created by people in the Magic Kingdom, which means it's only a magic item.
    Also, presumably, if it was an artifact, there would be an artifact bonus.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    We don't know if decrypted units level up. Parson is still too low level to freeze his stats.
    If decrypting is a more powerful form of making uncroaked and we know that uncroaked warlords level, then Ansome should be able to level.

    Remember Stanley went ballistic when Parson withdrew his units after destroying the seige thus denying his uncroaked warlords a chance to level.

    So, unless decryption is a completely different spell it follows that decrypted units can level.
    Last edited by Saracenus; 2009-05-04 at 08:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracenus View Post
    If decrypting is a more powerful form of making uncroaked and we know that uncroaked warlords level, then Ansome should be able to level.

    Remember Stanley went ballistic when Parson withdrew his units after destroying the seige thus denying his uncroaked warlords a chance to level.

    So, unless decryption is a completely different spell it follows that decrypted units can level.
    This is correct; I misremembered badly when I thought Uncroaked couldn't level -- ironically, I was thinking of the exact same page but entirely failing to recall the point. However, we do not know which rate Uncroaked level at; it could be less, and at any event they suffered the handicap of gradual but inevitable decay.

    Decrypted, however, do not decay, so it may well be an entirely different spell. Even so, it strikes me as logical that it is based on Uncroaking, which means it might have similar traits, only better. Decrypted may well be able to level just like Uncroaked units.

    But I remain unconvinced that Decrypting is all improvement and no penalty. I suspect there is some sort of downside to it, something not immediately obvious yet seriously limiting....
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Hack View Post
    But I remain unconvinced that Decrypting is all improvement and no penalty. I suspect there is some sort of downside to it, something not immediately obvious yet seriously limiting....
    "Decrypted units hunger for world domination and must attack every turn. Failing to find an opponent, they will turn on each other. Failing to find any target whatsoever they will turn on themselves."

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    I have, obviously, no idea. Just saying.
    The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by BLANDCorporatio View Post
    "Decrypted units hunger for world domination and must attack every turn. Failing to find an opponent, they will turn on each other. Failing to find any target whatsoever they will turn on themselves."

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    I have, obviously, no idea. Just saying.
    *snicker*

    Even so, that would be one example of a downside.
    My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Ansom is even more irritating now then the first time around. And I notice that he is talking to Parson as is Parson was the boss and that his loyalty is to him, not Stanley or Wanda.
    That could be another indication that Ansom's new mindset is based on psychology (the fanatic becoming equally fanatical to his new cause, and disdaining his former cause as a misleading delusion).

    After all, Parson is the one who (sorta) told him to his face that royal mandates were obsolete and that Stanley's attunement to the Arkenhammer indicated that he had the true mandate of the Titans. I suspect that Ansom has always harbored some unadmitted suspicion to that effect (because of his failure to attune to the Arkenpliers), and that Parson is probably the only person who's ever directly presented this viewpoint to Ansom. If so, it would be natural for Ansom, once his old worldview shattered, to glom onto Parson as the person who'd Gotten It Right[tm].

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishy View Post
    What's happened here, is that Ansom has had a religious experience orders of magnitude more powerful than we can imagine. He thought he was invincible, because he was serving the Titans. He died, and was brought back to life through the power of a literal tool of the beings who created his world.
    Also, he was brought back because the tool of the Titans that had rejected him had instead accepted the "demoness" Wanda as its true wielder. Add in whatever history between them is hinted at in their earlier confrontation.

    It's quite possible that Ansom, having his old worldview knocked into a cocked message hat, is now making sense of things by seizing on a new worldview with equal zeal. That's not uncommon among real-world fanatics who break away from a belief system.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Also, he was brought back because the tool of the Titans that had rejected him had instead accepted the "demoness" Wanda as its true wielder. Add in whatever history between them is hinted at in their earlier confrontation.

    Nice character development, for an undead uncroaked decrypted unit...
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Actually, it fits -- fanatics who have their worldview torn down are likely to become fanatics for something new cause rather than just normal people.
    Eric Hoffer pointed commented on precisely this phenomenon in The True Believer.

    Wanda is still loyal to Stanley: however, she could betray Stanley at any point because of the existence of the prophecy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zentei View Post
    PS: I mean, really - level 10 non-decaying and cogent Warlord for zero upkeep?
    Yeah, all you need to do is kill a level-10 warlord! I mean, who can't do that?

    Does "I remember ... most things" mean that Wanda purged him of at least some of his memories of Jillian? (Although it's even creepier if he remembers everything and just doesn't care anymore.)

    Quote Originally Posted by chefsotero View Post
    And that is the first time the absolute level of a unit is stated, other than that only up'ed 2 levels or such
    That depends on whether you think that Jillian was trying to insult whatshisface here.
    Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-05-04 at 01:59 PM.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    Oh, and did Ansom shave his chest hair? He still had it in 143...
    Well, maybe he's just been listening to what people say...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Dragon View Post


    Then again, maybe it's a blooper or a result of being decrypted.
    Wait...in 143 he doesn't have it either - it's just scratches on his body; maybe it all got burned off by the volcano...
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Looks like we've got an Alexander the Great scenario coming up. Only this time the conquerer doesn't need to use kindness to convert enemies and there may not be a disease to stop him.

    Although we need to wait and see if the mass decrypt'd are non-decaying. They could just take a really really long time or are mass-rezzed at their previous level.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahoo_Serious View Post
    What's the mechanic for assuming and maintaining control of a side? Does Stanley get to come back to GK after ditching it and automatically take over control of this grand new army just because he was once designated heir, or can Parson tell him to fall in line or buzz off? Will Wanda have to be subservient to the Tool, even though she's a Tool herself now? And is ReAnsom really so transformed that he'll accept orders from Stanley?
    Stanley never "ditched" in the sense that he never relinquished his control of GK, Parson, or its troops. He was never not its ruler. And he believes, as do others, that Stanley can simply end Parson's existence with a word. There's no reason to believe that Parson isn't still compelled to follow the Tool's orders.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Although we need to wait and see if the mass decrypt'd are non-decaying. They could just take a really really long time or are mass-rezzed at their previous level.
    I suspect this may be the drawback of the de-crypted. Its very possible that the uncroaked just have a "+x" to their uncroaked status. So Wanda won't be able to make more than a few non-decayers a turn. And I also suspect that units can't be endlessly decrypted.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    You are wrong. (And I will leave out the obvious dig at you for, uh, flagrantly flaunting vocabulary which you don't understand.)

    From here:

    Or here:
    Ansom is exaggerating his own importance by claiming to stand as a 'proof of a higher expression'; the only thing he's proof of is that Parson was better at backstabbing and Wanda happened to qualify for the artifact, but to him, it must be something big, epic, and grand. That's pretension.
    I have to disagree with you here. On the face of it I would have to agree with you, but in context I cannot.

    Bogroll's attack is not what defeated Ansom. Even with Ansom dead, his forces should still have won. Ansom was beaten by a big, epic, and grand explosion. Even if he had survived the betrayal he'd be just as dead and just as Decrypted. If Ansom were not a very good warlord, if Ansom's force should not have won handily by all reasonable expectations, then sure it would be pretentious. But Ansom was taken out by a rules exploit. This is like the kamikaze that took out the Mongolian fleet. An act of the Titans.

    Ansom isn't some plebe with delusions of grandeur, he is a man of grandure was raised by a tool of the titans, in a whole new way. Of course he would say "I" no one else had been raised yet.
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodimus View Post
    True perhaps, but in Wanda's case, her brilliance is in her underhanded manipulations, right?
    Good point.

    Anyway, unless some massive, gigantic turn of the tables happens prior to the end of this Book, I've got no reason to assume Parson, Wanda, Ansom and Stanley won't be rulers of all of Erfworld by the start of Book 2. Why mess about with all the technicalities when we already know what's going to happen? If Parson can win when he's given nothing, what do you think he could do when given everything??
    Heh, why mess with all the technicalities? Because that's what storytelling is. Sure we could write stories thus: There once was a prince who loved a princess. They got married and had lots of babies. The End. But that isn't an interesting story. You could say we knew Parson would win the battle of Effed up, so why bother to read all the intervening pages? You could have just waited till the book was finished and read the last page.

    I also disagree that we know that they will rule the world so easily. There is still a missing known arkentool and I personally disbelieve that Stanley's force is as grand as many believe. I'm thinking this whole battle was more in line with the battle at Troy. Also, there seems to be an assumption that Wanda can decrypt an unlimited number of soldiers. But there might well be some limitations on it.

    potential limitations.

    1. Maximum numbers
    2. Maximum distance
    3. Decreasing control.
    4. Weaknesses to certain attacks. Turning, healing,
    5. Weaknesses in certain terrain types.
    6. Maybe another croakamancer could switch an uncroaked unit's loyalty?

    Etc..
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormthorn View Post
    As a side note, how come the Hammers most useful ability is to turn birds into walnuts and visa versa, while the pliers can instantly destroy undead and rez people while simultaniously brainwashing them? Balance issues much?!
    And don't forget the flight capability and the electrical attacks of the hammer.

    Next time, perhaps complaints about balance issues should be withheld until we actually see these putative problems affecting the plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkgolem View Post
    The big issue I see coming is when Stanley comes back and says "Great job, I knew you had it in you all the time. Ok so, let me have the pliers now."
    Stanley seems to have been humbled; his belief in the Titan's plans for him have been shaken; he seems to have even learned a bit of self-doubt (or at least shown remorse in relation to Jack's prior mental damage). The Tool got his boop handed to him or nearly so, while the people he abandoned as being at best useless (suggesting that they may have been so incompetent that one could actually suspect betrayal) pulled off an impossible victory without him, his hammer, and his dwagons...

    My WAG for the next chapter: The next book opens as GK has already taken over nearly all of Erf, either right before, during, or after the time when he's taking over Charlescomm's stronghold.
    Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-05-04 at 02:29 PM.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    Stanley seems to have been humbled; his belief in the Titan's plans for him have been shaken; he seems to have even learned a bit of self-doubt (or at least shown remorse in relation to Jack's prior mental damage). The Tool got his boop handed to him or nearly so, while the people he abandoned as being at best useless (suggesting that they may have been so incompetent that one could actually suspect betrayal) pulled off an impossible victory without him, his hammer, and his dwagons...
    Yeah, but this newly humble Stanley is going to arrive back at GK and be subjected to Ansom's worship. How long do you think it'll take for Stanley's megalomania to return?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Yeah, but this newly humble Stanley is going to arrive back at GK and be subjected to Ansom's worship. How long do you think it'll take for Stanley's megalomania to return?
    Unsom doesn't strike me as a fawning sycophant. His personality and earnestness seems intact, and he was always about honor and duty and hierarchy. He will not be shy about criticizing Stanley as he isn't shy now about contradicting Parson.
    Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-05-04 at 02:41 PM.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    Unsom doesn't strike me as a fawning sycophant.
    Ansom says to Parson:
    "You spoke the truth. You were speaking for the Titans then."

    Excerpt of what Ansom is referring to:
    "I work for a Tool... The guy the Titans chose to lead... He is a 'Tool of the Titans'. That's higher than Royalty, dude. Stanley is your superior."

    It seems to me that Ansom would worship Stanley as the personal representation of the Titans on Erf.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Ansom says to Parson:
    "You spoke the truth. You were speaking for the Titans then."

    Excerpt of what Ansom is referring to:
    "I work for a Tool... The guy the Titans chose to lead... He is a 'Tool of the Titans'. That's higher than Royalty, dude. Stanley is your superior."

    It seems to me that Ansom would worship Stanley as the personal representation of the Titans on Erf.
    I guess his matter-of-fact, self-assured demeanor is open to interpretation.
    Quo vadis?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Ansom says to Parson:
    "You spoke the truth. You were speaking for the Titans then."

    Excerpt of what Ansom is referring to:
    "I work for a Tool... The guy the Titans chose to lead... He is a 'Tool of the Titans'. That's higher than Royalty, dude. Stanley is your superior."

    It seems to me that Ansom would worship Stanley as the personal representation of the Titans on Erf.
    Roman Catholics don't worship the Pope.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Ansom says to Parson:
    "You spoke the truth. You were speaking for the Titans then."

    Excerpt of what Ansom is referring to:
    "I work for a Tool... The guy the Titans chose to lead... He is a 'Tool of the Titans'. That's higher than Royalty, dude. Stanley is your superior."

    It seems to me that Ansom would worship Stanley as the personal representation of the Titans on Erf.
    "There is more to the Titan's will than whom they left in charge." Stanley was the one they left in charge, the Tool of the Titans. But he ran and didn't contribute much to the fight so I don't think Ansom is that interested in Stanley. Ansom had a tool and lost it to Parson not Stanley. In other words, Ansom didn't lose to a Tool, he lost to someone that wasn't even a tool. I don't think Ansom has suddenly become a zealous supporter of Tools, I think he has instead realized that even people without official titanic recognition, can be greater than Tools or Royalty. To wit, Ansom says "I'll be your captain" not Stanley's captain. He doesn't say, "Stanley was right." but "You were right."

    Ansom right now sees Parson as the mouthpiece of the Titans, albiet an unwitting one. If he has the ability to defect, then I predict Ansom will follow Stanley only as long as Parson does.
    "If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilkrazy View Post
    Roman Catholics don't worship the Pope.
    That is irrelevant. It does not matter if Ansom is worshiping Stanley per se or just treating him like a groupie treats a rockstar. It would likely have the same effect on Stanley.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    "There is more to the Titan's will than whom they left in charge." Stanley was the one they left in charge, the Tool of the Titans. But he ran and didn't contribute much to the fight so I don't think Ansom is that interested in Stanley. Ansom had a tool and lost it to Parson not Stanley. In other words, Ansom didn't lose to a Tool, he lost to someone that wasn't even a tool. I don't think Ansom has suddenly become a zealous supporter of Tools, I think he has instead realized that even people without official titanic recognition, can be greater than Tools or Royalty. To wit, Ansom says "I'll be your captain" not Stanley's captain. He doesn't say, "Stanley was right." but "You were right."

    Ansom right now sees Parson as the mouthpiece of the Titans, albiet an unwitting one. If he has the ability to defect, then I predict Ansom will follow Stanley only as long as Parson does.
    Perhaps, but I don't think that's what he's saying. The quotes in his speech bubble around "whom they left in charge" indicates to me that he is paraphrasing himself. In the thinkagram he proclamed his superiority because he is "directly descended from those whom the titans left in charge". That combined with he talk of being a "higher expression" leads me to believe that he is saying that attunement to a 'tool is superior to being popped as Royalty.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    "Worship" may be the wrong word for it, but Ansom's new attitude would lead him to show Stanley enough reverence to swell the Tool's head to the size of one of those dwagon-blimp veils.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    It's official: Arkenpliers > Arkenhammer
    i dunno bro. even if the dwagons do have an upkeep, first off they fly, second they have ranged attack and probably dps, third you don't need to look around for corpses in order to pop them

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0158.html

    Someone needs to do a photoshop on panel #2 and give Parson a tophat, the glasses are in perfect position...

    "I do find him quite unrefined though" or some other stick up the bumhole statement.
    There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

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