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Thread: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
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2009-05-04, 05:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Even with quotes, I have to disagree with qualifying units that don't require upkeep as "normal humans". See, I had an army of soldiers that I trained not to require food, clothing, shelter or any other commodities, but just as they finally learned the trick they all died.
Same for "no loyalty issues", normal humans are quite often traitors, spies, rebels or mutineers.
So, no. I don't think the Hippymancers' plan is to turn everyone into an army of Croakknights who want to conquer the world. That doesn't really sound like the type of goals a Hippymancer would strive for.
Classified as an artifact? I beg to differ. Sizemore said "maybe artifact" because he didn't know at the time, but now we know it's been created by the spell cast by Wanda, spell which itself was created by people in the Magic Kingdom, which means it's only a magic item.
Her loyalty is not compelled by a spell. That doesn't mean she isn't loyal. She's bound by Duty to Stanley, and it's not a spell because it's natural thinkamancy.Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2009-05-04, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-04, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
If decrypting is a more powerful form of making uncroaked and we know that uncroaked warlords level, then Ansome should be able to level.
Remember Stanley went ballistic when Parson withdrew his units after destroying the seige thus denying his uncroaked warlords a chance to level.
So, unless decryption is a completely different spell it follows that decrypted units can level.Last edited by Saracenus; 2009-05-04 at 08:47 AM.
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2009-05-04, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
This is correct; I misremembered badly when I thought Uncroaked couldn't level -- ironically, I was thinking of the exact same page but entirely failing to recall the point. However, we do not know which rate Uncroaked level at; it could be less, and at any event they suffered the handicap of gradual but inevitable decay.
Decrypted, however, do not decay, so it may well be an entirely different spell. Even so, it strikes me as logical that it is based on Uncroaking, which means it might have similar traits, only better. Decrypted may well be able to level just like Uncroaked units.
But I remain unconvinced that Decrypting is all improvement and no penalty. I suspect there is some sort of downside to it, something not immediately obvious yet seriously limiting....My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.
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2009-05-04, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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2009-05-04, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-04, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
That could be another indication that Ansom's new mindset is based on psychology (the fanatic becoming equally fanatical to his new cause, and disdaining his former cause as a misleading delusion).
After all, Parson is the one who (sorta) told him to his face that royal mandates were obsolete and that Stanley's attunement to the Arkenhammer indicated that he had the true mandate of the Titans. I suspect that Ansom has always harbored some unadmitted suspicion to that effect (because of his failure to attune to the Arkenpliers), and that Parson is probably the only person who's ever directly presented this viewpoint to Ansom. If so, it would be natural for Ansom, once his old worldview shattered, to glom onto Parson as the person who'd Gotten It Right[tm].
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2009-05-04, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Also, he was brought back because the tool of the Titans that had rejected him had instead accepted the "demoness" Wanda as its true wielder. Add in whatever history between them is hinted at in their earlier confrontation.
It's quite possible that Ansom, having his old worldview knocked into a cocked message hat, is now making sense of things by seizing on a new worldview with equal zeal. That's not uncommon among real-world fanatics who break away from a belief system.
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2009-05-04, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2009-05-04, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145
Eric Hoffer pointed commented on precisely this phenomenon in The True Believer.
Wanda is still loyal to Stanley: however, she could betray Stanley at any point because of the existence of the prophecy.
Yeah, all you need to do is kill a level-10 warlord! I mean, who can't do that?
Does "I remember ... most things" mean that Wanda purged him of at least some of his memories of Jillian? (Although it's even creepier if he remembers everything and just doesn't care anymore.)
That depends on whether you think that Jillian was trying to insult whatshisface here.Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-05-04 at 01:59 PM.
Quo vadis?
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2009-05-04, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Well, maybe he's just been listening to what people say...
Then again, maybe it's a blooper or a result of being decrypted.
Wait...in 143 he doesn't have it either - it's just scratches on his body; maybe it all got burned off by the volcano...
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2009-05-04, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Looks like we've got an Alexander the Great scenario coming up. Only this time the conquerer doesn't need to use kindness to convert enemies and there may not be a disease to stop him.
Although we need to wait and see if the mass decrypt'd are non-decaying. They could just take a really really long time or are mass-rezzed at their previous level.Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
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2009-05-04, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Stanley never "ditched" in the sense that he never relinquished his control of GK, Parson, or its troops. He was never not its ruler. And he believes, as do others, that Stanley can simply end Parson's existence with a word. There's no reason to believe that Parson isn't still compelled to follow the Tool's orders.
Quo vadis?
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2009-05-04, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Although we need to wait and see if the mass decrypt'd are non-decaying. They could just take a really really long time or are mass-rezzed at their previous level.
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2009-05-04, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
I have to disagree with you here. On the face of it I would have to agree with you, but in context I cannot.
Bogroll's attack is not what defeated Ansom. Even with Ansom dead, his forces should still have won. Ansom was beaten by a big, epic, and grand explosion. Even if he had survived the betrayal he'd be just as dead and just as Decrypted. If Ansom were not a very good warlord, if Ansom's force should not have won handily by all reasonable expectations, then sure it would be pretentious. But Ansom was taken out by a rules exploit. This is like the kamikaze that took out the Mongolian fleet. An act of the Titans.
Ansom isn't some plebe with delusions of grandeur, he is a man of grandure was raised by a tool of the titans, in a whole new way. Of course he would say "I" no one else had been raised yet."If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld
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2009-05-04, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Good point.
Anyway, unless some massive, gigantic turn of the tables happens prior to the end of this Book, I've got no reason to assume Parson, Wanda, Ansom and Stanley won't be rulers of all of Erfworld by the start of Book 2. Why mess about with all the technicalities when we already know what's going to happen? If Parson can win when he's given nothing, what do you think he could do when given everything??
I also disagree that we know that they will rule the world so easily. There is still a missing known arkentool and I personally disbelieve that Stanley's force is as grand as many believe. I'm thinking this whole battle was more in line with the battle at Troy. Also, there seems to be an assumption that Wanda can decrypt an unlimited number of soldiers. But there might well be some limitations on it.
potential limitations.
1. Maximum numbers
2. Maximum distance
3. Decreasing control.
4. Weaknesses to certain attacks. Turning, healing,
5. Weaknesses in certain terrain types.
6. Maybe another croakamancer could switch an uncroaked unit's loyalty?
Etc.."If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld
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2009-05-04, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
And don't forget the flight capability and the electrical attacks of the hammer.
Next time, perhaps complaints about balance issues should be withheld until we actually see these putative problems affecting the plot.
Stanley seems to have been humbled; his belief in the Titan's plans for him have been shaken; he seems to have even learned a bit of self-doubt (or at least shown remorse in relation to Jack's prior mental damage). The Tool got his boop handed to him or nearly so, while the people he abandoned as being at best useless (suggesting that they may have been so incompetent that one could actually suspect betrayal) pulled off an impossible victory without him, his hammer, and his dwagons...
My WAG for the next chapter: The next book opens as GK has already taken over nearly all of Erf, either right before, during, or after the time when he's taking over Charlescomm's stronghold.Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-05-04 at 02:29 PM.
Quo vadis?
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2009-05-04, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-05-04 at 02:41 PM.
Quo vadis?
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2009-05-04, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
Ansom says to Parson:
"You spoke the truth. You were speaking for the Titans then."
Excerpt of what Ansom is referring to:
"I work for a Tool... The guy the Titans chose to lead... He is a 'Tool of the Titans'. That's higher than Royalty, dude. Stanley is your superior."
It seems to me that Ansom would worship Stanley as the personal representation of the Titans on Erf.
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2009-05-04, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-04, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
"There is more to the Titan's will than whom they left in charge." Stanley was the one they left in charge, the Tool of the Titans. But he ran and didn't contribute much to the fight so I don't think Ansom is that interested in Stanley. Ansom had a tool and lost it to Parson not Stanley. In other words, Ansom didn't lose to a Tool, he lost to someone that wasn't even a tool. I don't think Ansom has suddenly become a zealous supporter of Tools, I think he has instead realized that even people without official titanic recognition, can be greater than Tools or Royalty. To wit, Ansom says "I'll be your captain" not Stanley's captain. He doesn't say, "Stanley was right." but "You were right."
Ansom right now sees Parson as the mouthpiece of the Titans, albiet an unwitting one. If he has the ability to defect, then I predict Ansom will follow Stanley only as long as Parson does."If I could just interrupt your stunningly dysfunctional group dynamic for a moment to interject." -- Erfworld
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2009-05-04, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
That is irrelevant. It does not matter if Ansom is worshiping Stanley per se or just treating him like a groupie treats a rockstar. It would likely have the same effect on Stanley.
Perhaps, but I don't think that's what he's saying. The quotes in his speech bubble around "whom they left in charge" indicates to me that he is paraphrasing himself. In the thinkagram he proclamed his superiority because he is "directly descended from those whom the titans left in charge". That combined with he talk of being a "higher expression" leads me to believe that he is saying that attunement to a 'tool is superior to being popped as Royalty.
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2009-05-04, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
"Worship" may be the wrong word for it, but Ansom's new attitude would lead him to show Stanley enough reverence to swell the Tool's head to the size of one of those dwagon-blimp veils.
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2009-05-04, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-04, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0158.html
Someone needs to do a photoshop on panel #2 and give Parson a tophat, the glasses are in perfect position...
"I do find him quite unrefined though" or some other stick up the bumhole statement.There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.