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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    I can't sleep, therefore I made this:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Blade View Post
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Anias View Post
    Well, maybe he's just been listening to what people say...
    I'm from a very different generation, an adult male with a shaved chest still triggers with me the same kind of response as seeing a bald woman. I hope it's a blooper.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    That depends on whether you think that Jillian was trying to insult whatshisface here.
    Yeah, I always thought she was referring to Leadership scores – it made sense in the context of who gives orders.

    Sure, Parson's Leadership was the same as his level when we first saw them, but since then he's gained the sword which included "Leadership!" in its advertised capabilities, so I see nothing which particularly links the two.

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    smile Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by hobgoblen924 View Post
    i dunno bro. even if the dwagons do have an upkeep, first off they fly, second they have ranged attack and probably dps, third you don't need to look around for corpses in order to pop them
    Good point.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158- TBFGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by hobgoblen924 View Post
    i dunno bro. even if the dwagons do have an upkeep, first off they fly, second they have ranged attack and probably dps, third you don't need to look around for corpses in order to pop them
    Well if you can make decrypted of any unit, the plyers can get you Dwagons, Archons.... well you get the Idea
    *remember, english is not my mother language, heck, it's not even my aunt language, well maybe my 3rd degree cousin language

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    I say the pliers aren't overpowered mostly because to get a powerful unit you must actually kill it. An archon or a dragon would require a serious loss of units to try and croak and you risk the wielder of the pliers in this plan.

    Though the reward for actually succeeding is very great in order to offset your loss. The no-upkeep and no decay uncroaked are your prize for winning the challenge of killing your enemy.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Perhaps, but I don't think that's what he's saying. The quotes in his speech bubble around "whom they left in charge" indicates to me that he is paraphrasing himself.
    Um, very small correction and no objection to anything else you wrote: Ansom is actually quoting Vinnie from here. Mind you, I find that interesting in and of itself: it could mean that Ansom's new attitude is based on doubts he might have been feeling even then.
    My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholdstare View Post
    I say the pliers aren't overpowered mostly because to get a powerful unit you must actually kill it. An archon or a dragon would require a serious loss of units to try and croak and you risk the wielder of the pliers in this plan.
    Not nescessarilly, since bodies only need to be moved to not desapear one can get some sistem to bring corposes to wanda after they been kill.

    But I do agree that you have an potentially higher payoff but with an potentially higher risk, IMHO the tools are balanced (all of them imba with regular joes, but hey its an artifact.....)
    Last edited by chefsotero; 2009-05-05 at 08:55 AM. Reason: typo
    *remember, english is not my mother language, heck, it's not even my aunt language, well maybe my 3rd degree cousin language

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Hack View Post
    Um, very small correction and no objection to anything else you wrote: Ansom is actually quoting Vinnie from here. Mind you, I find that interesting in and of itself: it could mean that Ansom's new attitude is based on doubts he might have been feeling even then.
    It seems to me that Vinny is echoing Ansom's rant. So it's a quote of a paraphrase.... quoting and paraphrasing seem rather transitive to me.

    I agree with you though. I think Ansom's vehemence was fueled by his refusal to accept the implications of the Titans' choice of non-royals to wield the 'tools.

    BTW, Wanda makes the third case out of three of 'tools attuning to non-royals. Perhaps royals are simply incapable of attuning? I am of course making an assumption that Wanda is not a royal, but it seems likely.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    It seems to me that Vinny is echoing Ansom's rant. So it's a quote of a paraphrase.... quoting and paraphrasing seem rather transitive to me.

    I agree with you though. I think Ansom's vehemence was fueled by his refusal to accept the implications of the Titans' choice of non-royals to wield the 'tools.

    BTW, Wanda makes the third case out of three of 'tools attuning to non-royals. Perhaps royals are simply incapable of attuning? I am of course making an assumption that Wanda is not a royal, but it seems likely.
    Let us not jump to conclusions. Any Royalty worth its salt would comprise only 0.0001% of the population, or about 1ppm. So in all likelyhood the Tools would atune to peasants, because there's more of them.
    The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by BLANDCorporatio View Post
    If they are not the strongest side right now, it will be very easy for them to become so. That's why I say the game is already broken...
    I disagree. It seems to me the writers have teased us with far too many questions and far too much incomplete background material on Erf and its origins, history, and mechanics for Erf to be so small that Parson could break it with one exploit. I think we're going to need a lot more PLOT, more than two books worth, before we've exhausted this background, and this means a lot more exploits for Parson to find. IIRC, Parson only began at 2nd level, so he character has a lot of room to grow, and GK was only one of 10 cities the Tool, as one of an unknown number of sides, used to control. My guess is that GK was only the intro sortie or chapter, and there's a lot more of Erf to discover.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLANDCorporatio View Post
    It just, for some reason, doesn't ring well that Book 2 will start with Erfworld united under Stanley
    Agreed.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahoo_Serious View Post
    I disagree. It seems to me the writers have teased us with far too many questions and far too much incomplete background material on Erf and its origins, history, and mechanics for Erf to be so small that Parson could break it with one exploit. I think we're going to need a lot more PLOT, more than two books worth, before we've exhausted this background, and this means a lot more exploits for Parson to find. IIRC, Parson only began at 2nd level, so he character has a lot of room to grow, and GK was only one of 10 cities the Tool, as one of an unknown number of sides, used to control. My guess is that GK was only the intro sortie or chapter, and there's a lot more of Erf to discover.
    There's a lot more of Erfworld to discover, true.

    That there's something out there capable to effectively counter Parson and Co., as they currently are, is what I am doubting. The thing is, we see Parson's hand, so to speak, and it's a very good one, plus he's a good player. He might not have a Royal Flush, but something significantly high up the list that you figure it's unlikely anyone can top that.

    (Edit: and would be tempted to call for a sleeve inspection when someone does, in fact, best it.)
    Last edited by BLANDCorporatio; 2009-05-05 at 11:02 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Hack View Post
    Um, very small correction and no objection to anything else you wrote: Ansom is actually quoting Vinnie from here. Mind you, I find that interesting in and of itself: it could mean that Ansom's new attitude is based on doubts he might have been feeling even then.
    I suspect that both the vehemence of his old attitude and the direction of his new attitude are driven in part by doubts about why the Arkenhammer had attuned to Stanley while the Arkenpliers refused to attune to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLANDCorporatio View Post
    Let us not jump to conclusions. Any Royalty worth its salt would comprise only 0.0001% of the population, or about 1ppm. So in all likelyhood the Tools would atune to peasants, because there's more of them.
    Even indifference to the distinction between royals and peasants would be pretty disturbing for someone of Ansom's (old) worldview.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by BLANDCorporatio View Post
    Let us not jump to conclusions. Any Royalty worth its salt would comprise only 0.0001% of the population, or about 1ppm. So in all likelyhood the Tools would atune to peasants, because there's more of them.
    It was pure speculation, that's all. On the other hand, I am fairly sure that attunement is not simply a random occurrence. That significantly weakens any reasoning based on population density...

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    It was pure speculation, that's all. On the other hand, I am fairly sure that attunement is not simply a random occurrence. That significantly weakens any reasoning based on population density...
    And we doon't really know the royallity status of charlie
    *remember, english is not my mother language, heck, it's not even my aunt language, well maybe my 3rd degree cousin language

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    It was pure speculation, that's all. On the other hand, I am fairly sure that attunement is not simply a random occurrence. That significantly weakens any reasoning based on population density...
    I seem to recall that the Archentools are aligned with fate magic. If so, who they choose to wield them is all part of a bigger picture that we cannot see as of yet.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by chefsotero View Post
    And we doon't really know the royallity status of charlie
    Parson says that he is a commoner, Ansom doesn't argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    I seem to recall that the Archentools are aligned with fate magic. If so, who they choose to wield them is all part of a bigger picture that we cannot see as of yet.
    Ansom says that "fate magic is powerless" in his case. That could be his way of saying that it is not his fate to be attuned to the 'pliers. It does not necessarily mean that the 'tools are Fate-aligned.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by chefsotero View Post
    And we doon't really know the royallity status of charlie
    Actually, we do. Charlie is an Overlord which means he isn't a Royal.
    My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    I stand myself corected
    Last edited by chefsotero; 2009-05-05 at 03:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    BTW, Wanda makes the third case out of three of 'tools attuning to non-royals. Perhaps royals are simply incapable of attuning? I am of course making an assumption that Wanda is not a royal, but it seems likely.
    We don't know if Wanda is royal, noble or commoner. She was popped in a city with a king, so it is possible.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    What is Charlie's tool? Parson said he is attuned to it... what does it do?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    The Arkendish? It gives him a mastery of Thinkamancy, and probably the archons.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by chefsotero View Post
    Not nescessarilly, since bodies only need to be moved to not desapear one can get some sistem to bring corposes to wanda after they been kill.
    Ah, yes. A Meat Wagon would come in handy.
    Last edited by mortissimus; 2009-05-05 at 04:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    The 'Pliers are not a game-breaker by any stretch of the imagination. The Royal Crown coalition was forged when only a few people thought Stanley was a threat. Once word spreads on how powerful Stanley is, others are going to naturally unite against him.

    The largest armies in the world don't protect against assassinations. Foolamancy could get a stack in to attack Stanley directly, or kill Wanda in her sleep. Parson isn't the only one to be able to think laterally - Charlie might prove very treacherous. (Mind control spells on garrison guards?)

    Vinny has shown, in my opinion, tactical ability similar to Ansom's, if not better. (Vinny could smell the trap that was Parson's very first ploy.) He just didn't have the motivation to use it to lead before. He might, now.

    The 'Pliers will certainly make raising and maintaining a large army easier. But the bigger the target, the more weak points it has. They might not be able to take Gobwin Knob, but containment works just as well, and the more area they take, the more they have to defend, and the more spread-out they get.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf von Ehrwal View Post
    We don't know if Wanda is royal, noble or commoner. She was popped in a city with a king, so it is possible.
    That would make her Jillian's sister. I think they would have mentioned that.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Marbit-Chow View Post
    The 'Pliers are not a game-breaker by any stretch of the imagination. The Royal Crown coalition was forged when only a few people thought Stanley was a threat. Once word spreads on how powerful Stanley is, others are going to naturally unite against him.
    Fundamentally disagree.

    Everyone on Erfworld would probably be wondering what happened, did Stanley do it on his own or with inside-RCC help, could he do it again, what should he be paid not to do it again, could we get a hold of the technology (and boop anyone else).

    Well played, this situation can make Stanley the racket-leader of the world.

    At the very least, it buys him several turns in which everyone figures out what to do next.

    The assasination idea is interesting, but remember that as yet nobody knows exactly what happens, except for GK. They wouldn't know whi to target anyway. And if we see that some new coalition is forced to resort to assassination and covert ops after being defeated soundly on the battlefield, well that is to acknowledge the imbalance and asymmetry of the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marbit-Chow View Post
    The 'Pliers will certainly make raising and maintaining a large army easier. But the bigger the target, the more weak points it has. They might not be able to take Gobwin Knob, but containment works just as well, and the more area they take, the more they have to defend, and the more spread-out they get.
    I don't follow. In these kinds of games, expansion is usually a necessary condition to achieve the goals and any weaknesses that it implies are to be taken in stride. It does not mean that the side that can expand fastest is a weak side- usually they become the strongest. Particularly since after every successful engament they can swell their ranks.
    The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    The game structure does not necessarily allow an assassination as we would understand it from the real world.

    Take Advance Wars as an example, no matter how much you hate the enemy leader, or how hard you beat them in a battle, you can't actually kill them because there are no rules that let you.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilkrazy View Post
    Take Advance Wars as an example, no matter how much you hate the enemy leader, or how hard you beat them in a battle, you can't actually kill them because there are no rules that let you.
    Stanley is completely mortal as seen by the battle in the pass.

    OTOH, maybe if you are in a city, you are completely safe.

    Maybe a foolamancer could act as an assassin and enter a city's hex, or maybe a thinkamancer could overwhelm natural loyalty of the troops.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    Quote Originally Posted by mortissimus View Post
    Ah, yes. A Meat Wagon would come in handy.
    Indeed, but I do prefer this meat wagon But any system could do, and the idea isen't even new, Sizemore do colect his material for his Crap-Gollens, Wanda could get someone to colect her material.
    *remember, english is not my mother language, heck, it's not even my aunt language, well maybe my 3rd degree cousin language

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    Default Re: Erfworld 158 - tBfGK 145

    There's a worse possibility...

    Think about it. Someone is reanimated as a new, uberpowerful type of undeadcroaked; says they now stand as proof of a higher expression; and decides to take over the world. Come on, we know what that means:

    Erfworld is about to have one of those "army of the undead out to kill everyone" scenarios.

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