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2009-09-20, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- The Netherlands
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
About the imbalance that is Undead vs Orc, perhaps this article can be of help, even though it sounds pretty micro intensive to me, and I lack the knowledge and experience to judge how viable it is. Nevertheless, it does sound interesting, and it's a nice read: http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55953
Er kommt aus der Dunkelheit der Grube
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2009-09-21, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Copenhaqen, denmark
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
All right, so I've finally got myself together to actually try DotA instead of just rejecting it. Now first, hell thats a fun game second, the people in it are about the worst jerks I've met. I have no idea about a lot of things like strategy and such, and when I ask for help, they just call me retarted.. So anyone got some tips for a new DotA player?
I can tell you so much that I honestly have no idea what to put in a signature here..
Avatar by Thelizard
English is not my native, just so you don't jugde me to harsh
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2009-09-21, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
About the imbalance that is Undead vs Orc, perhaps this article can be of help, even though it sounds pretty micro intensive to me, and I lack the knowledge and experience to judge how viable it is.
However, I'm not sure of the viability of that, either.
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2009-09-21, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Yay!
Lib linked me to this article a while ago, I haven't gotten to giving it a try yet though.
Well... precisely due to the horrid community, a lot of people here do not play DotA out of principle (and some other reasons, too). You'd probably have more success asking the people in the DotA thread, though I'm not sure if it's still alive. Though I believe it's not old enough for reviving it being considered thread necromancy...
What little advice I could give you (and my experience with DotA is limited to say the least): Pick some hero and learn how to play him or her first before progressing to others, read up in guides how to pick skills and, most importantly, items for the heroes you play, take care it's the creeps that take the damage from other creeps and not you, be careful when your creeps pass the river (you are in danger from being sneaked up on from behind then).
I see pretty much the same issue with this strategy. It helps the UD make a stand against the Orc on T2, when usually one would have to reach T3... but it makes it much more difficult to live to see T2 in the first place! A Blademaster picking off accolytes or even fiends will hurt badly without a Death Knight around.
Also, a Lich as third hero seems insane to me. Low hit point Intelligence-heroes are too fragile to make good third heroes, in my opinion. I play fairly often with three heroes... but I always make sure the third hero is a sturdy Strength hero, maybe Agility, but surely not Intelligence.
I think a hybrid of what that article proposed and what UD usually do against Orcs might work best - fiends and DK at T1, adding a Lich, statues and banshees at T2, as well as more fiends if the Orc goes for wyverns and ghouls if he goes for raiders. Necros and wagons in the case of kodos.
...then again, many Undeads use banshees in this matchup anyhow.Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-09-21 at 03:40 PM.
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In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-09-21, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- late febuary
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
i never understood not using banshees.
current excuse for incoherence: heat
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2009-09-21, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
The problems with using banshees are the following:
Firstly, it requires you investing a fair amount of resources into getting another building and upgrading the banshees. You have crypts and slaughterhouses no matter what, but a temple of the damned and banshee upgrades would be an additional investment that does not directly add units to the army and may delay your T3 (and you never want to delay your T3 as Undead).
Secondly, if you face opponents with good and much pierce damage, they are too fragile. That essentially rules out using them against Undead (fiends or gargoyles - either will tear your banshees apart) and makes them a poor choice against Night Elves (where it's usually a race against the number of dryads anyway).
Thirdly, their abilities often won't help you all that much anyway.
Curse? Humans will area dispell it with priests or steal it with spellbreakers. Night Elves will break it with dryads - sure, the dryads run out of mana sooner than you, but you won't live long enough to see their mana depleted anyway, because you failed to invest the resources bound in the banshees into something actually useful. Undead will laugh and empower their destroyers. Only with Orcs do you have a good chance for them not having the dispell ready or not being able to dispell quickly enough.
Antimagic Shell? Since most people don't use debuffs against Undead in the first place, the usefulness of this is greatly limited. A large part of spells typically used against Undead is not of a type that affects their units in the first place, and many of those that are can be countered by micro alone. Granted, situationally, it may turn out to be useful, but again, most of these situations are "TC with shockwave".
Possession? A good army can disrupt it easily enough, unless you bring really many banshees or the opponent gets the totally wrong units. The former is easy in a map like Micro Arena, will leave you too weakened for too long in a real game though, the latter relies on the opponent making a cardinal mistake, which is a poor basis for a sound strategy.
As usual, all of the above only for solo games. In team games, matters look quite differently.Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-09-21 at 07:42 PM.
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In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-09-21, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- San Diego
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Interesting, I thought Anti Magic Shell was mostly for preventing some damage on hero abilities like Shockwave or Storm Bolt. I know it changed in one of the patches (or more).
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2009-09-21, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Which is correct (I always keep forgetting how AMS works, I use it far too rarely). The thing is, Storm Bolt is a one target spell, and will most likely end up being used against your hero. Which you can counter simply by keeping the hero further in the back and not letting him get focused, and keeping a healing or invulnerability potion on him - much cheaper than getting Adept Banshees only for the heroes.
Shockwave would be a good reason to get Antimagic Shell, sure, but I specifically mentioned that. What else is there in the terms of area damage? Chain Lightning? Belongs to Orcs, too (where, as I said, banshees can indeed make sense). Blizzard? Most will go for Water Elementals, and it can be countered by micro anyway. Flame Strike? Can be countered by micro alone. Rain of Fire? Very rare sight, and can be countered by micro too. Carrion Swarm? Hardly anyone ever uses that. Frost Nova? Okay, that's a good reason to get it, but getting banshees against Undead with their excellent piercing damage choices is risky as hell. Orb of Disruption? Yes, that would prevent the destroyers from murdering your abominations... but then again, just getting more fiends or gargoyles and killing the destroyers would do so even more effectively.Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-09-21 at 08:26 PM.
LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-09-22, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- San Diego
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Nevermind. >.>
Ahh, well. Someday I'll take some pictures and write up a bit on what I'm doing right now (microprocessors). It's really cool when things work out, but these unusual programming hiccups need to be expelled through brute, monotonous force.
But I'll actually be gone because there are two more book-work assignments due Monday and I'm not finding the time to do them yet.
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2009-09-23, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
And back - should be able to resume coming to the sessions now.
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2009-09-23, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Somewhere!
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
I no longer work where I used to work and my schedule is definitely more open. Which means I may return to being able to play WC3 on the actual meeting days. Like I did the first week of Summer and never did again.
My last breath... ...is also my mintiest...
Avatar credit goes to a strictly platonic friend.
Former Avatar credit goes to Howl.
Spoiler
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2009-09-23, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Welcome back, Baneling! I was already worried you were gone for two weeks instead of one, and we'd be missing you on this weekend as well.
Great to hear, Copper!LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-09-23, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Bosstown, MA
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
So, after a long absence during which time I managed to somehow get into college, I'm planning to return to the group this Friday, or, barring that, this Sunday. Looking forward to some players who can school me on most maps, LAN games with my friends back home have been getting stale, since I outclass most of them at most maps.
Writings and music:
How To Be A Good Team Leader
Champion Rap Battles: Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath
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2009-09-23, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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2009-09-24, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Welcome back, DM.
So, reminder: Tomorrow is our next custom map session. I hope to see you all there.LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-09-24, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
i should be able to get on tomorrow before the session ends.
Last edited by Nohwl; 2009-09-24 at 05:40 PM.
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2009-09-24, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- IL
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2009-09-27, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
To those who don't know, I won't be able to come to the Sunday session tomorrow (er, technically today) because I'm seeing a friend. I might shoot for being on during the week though, but no promises.
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2009-09-27, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- San Diego
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
One of these days I'll play online videogames again.
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2009-09-30, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- The lake in Legoland
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
This is scary. We got pushed to the second page. We need something to discuss! Ideas?
I play HU mostly. So what are some of your favorite stratagies and build orders?
I don't have anything in specific after t1. I normally start with a farm and alter then rax then lumber mill, shop, and blacksmith in no perticular order after that. Unless I completely forget about the shop. I get 2-3 footman before switching to rifleman. My first up is normally black gun powdler. Any ideas on how to improve that?Avatar by Neoseph7
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2009-09-30, 02:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Scout? If you are going vs. NE or Undead, dual rax + defend can be good for a late T1 rush. Defend & footmen is also great for creeping, since so many creeps do piercing damage.
If you are facing NE, get mortar & slow asap, since NEs have a lot of mobility and weakness to siege/AoE damage with low HP, unarmored units (dryad, huntress, archer).
I try to get shop asap, since human items are quite good. With a lesser pot of clarity, a scroll of healing, 6 militia, 2 footies, and a hero, you can have an expansion building before the first night fall with no losses in HP, units, and a very minor dent to mana.
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2009-09-30, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- late febuary
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
defend is useless against late T1 NE. defend only works VS piercing attacks. huntresses do normal. only idiots who think theyre good enough and people who are near-pro level use archers. i agree on fiends though-you dont stand a chance without defend and long rifles.
HU really suck T1, you need at least T2 to be useful is most matchups outside of a rush.
also; someone get on Bnet. im bored.current excuse for incoherence: heat
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2009-09-30, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Care to join ICCup?
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2009-10-01, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
There is an ICCup for WarCraft?
How popular is it, what kind of people play there, and... why? What advantage does it have over the regular BNet ladder?
Reminder: Tomorrow is our next custom map session. Not sure I'll be able to make it, but I'll try.LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-10-01, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Well, tomorrow is my birthday (only recently realized it was on a Friday) so I don't think I'll be able to make the session. May be able to pop in for a bit at the end but no promises.
Jeez, after I come back saying "I can come to the sessions again" I have to miss two in two weeks...
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2009-10-01, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
Hardly believable now that you were still twelve (if barely) when this group was founded, isn't it?
Which reminds me... *checks*
Wow, how could we miss that? Last Friday marked the second anniversary of this group!Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-10-01 at 01:10 PM.
LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-10-01, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
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2009-10-02, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Southwestern Germany
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
I won't be able to participate today after all... I'm at my parents, with only my laptop, and for some reason I never was able to figure out my laptop is always hit by bluescreen when running WarCraft.
No D&D group tomorrow either (no headset here).
I'll be back home in time for the Sunday melee session though.
Would it be as crazy as the Blizzard Easter map?
Also, happy birthday, Baneling!LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2009-10-02, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- late febuary
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Re: GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)
it bluescreens? what OS? what manufacturer/model number?
current excuse for incoherence: heat
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2009-10-02, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007