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Thread: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
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2009-05-12, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-12, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-12, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
If you happen to be in possession of an entire city filled with thousands of corpses and no opposition at all... then I can see how the pliers might be considered overpowered. Under normal circumstances, however, I don't believe they are. They're just being used under currently ideal circumstances.
Alot of the "OMG!" over the pliers is because of the circumstances caused by Parson's gambit with the volcano, not because of the inherent power of the pliers themselves.
Are they powerful? You bet! They're a tool used to fashion the world itself, and as such are immensely powerful. Are they OVERPOWERED? I doubt that, especially since we haven't seen everything the other tools can do.
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2009-05-12, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
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2009-05-12, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
Quite right. We know they are not magic items because they are made by the spell not 'a mortal'. Two of the three (the glasses and the armband) are things that no 'caster would ever create (the former because it replicates an ability all 'casters and warlords already have and the latter only works with Parson's watch).
That depends on how an artifact is defined. If it is 'an object with magical properties not made by a mortal' then yes. However, if an artifact is 'an object with magical properties made by the titans' then no. We don't have that definition, so we don't know. It seems to me that Parson's items fall into a linguistic gap. They are technically neither magic items nor artifacts, but there isn't a word to cover that. Sizemore essentially says he doesn't know what to call it, and Charlie probably called it an artifact because that's the term Parson used in his sales pitch.
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2009-05-13, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
No, I assume that they'll know about Wanda eventually. It only has to be eventually.
They weren't "stopped cold", they started trying to pierce the veil. And they pierced it, contrary to your apparent belief that it cannot be done. They didn't do so before Stanley had left the hex, it's true, but unlike your plan, my plan doesn't rely on working out perfectly in every battle. It relies on working out, by chance, once, and then never being needed again.
Are you arguing that the other uses are broken to the extent that having them at Parson's disposal will make the story unworkable? If not, then I don't think they are relevant. And if so, I don't think you're right.
But you think his opinion has changed?
And yet it has, whether you are right about a schism or not. This line of argument baffles me, as it's quite obviously not what happened.
The smart money does not get placed with so many unknowns on the board. What is the position of Jetstone, of Transylvito, of Charlescomm? Gobwin Knob is in a position to rapidly recover. There are other sides in the world, though, and they are not in need of recovery.
There is a difference between overpowered and merely powerful. None of them are gamebreakingly broken. I notice a few of them (among those with which I am familiar) have major and somewhat arbitrary weaknesses (Lord of the Rings, War of the Worlds...) I find that somewhat appropriate.
Do you know what context is?Last edited by Bogardan_Mage; 2009-05-13 at 02:02 AM.
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2009-05-13, 04:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-13, 05:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-13, 05:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
irt. Bogardan Mage:
I guess the only way to settle the (over)powerful issue is to play Erfworld several times and count outcomes; second best would be some spreadsheet crunching. Since none of those options is available, we'll stay undecided for a while yet.
You seem to agree that GK is in a position to rapidly recover its former strength. I say yes to that, adding that it could recover very easily at the expense of everyone else by employing all those things we've discussed (or not) about, like battle reinforcements through decryption, rapid city-rebuilding, intelligence gathering, and any ideas perfect Warlords Parson and Unsom come up with; all GK needs is competence in battle not perfection in either battle or diplomacy.
Whether Parson would gladly continue this game: here, probably not. His attitude changed, it is made obvious on his face, in his words. A klog would be definitive, but it is not necessary at this point. Can he get out of his obligation to Stanley, can someone or something cancel that, what about the other GK-ers? Something's got to give, too much build-up. We're in for an interesting Book 3 (no typo).
irt. Bogardan Mage and teratorn:
Well, I don't understand. Who's dissin' who and why?The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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2009-05-13, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-13, 05:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2009-05-13, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
It's not clear, «corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved just disappear at the start of the next turn.» What's moving? Picking Misty in his arms would allow her body to remain an extra turn? By moving one might be able to keep a body for a few turns. I wonder if they'd smell.
Last edited by teratorn; 2009-05-13 at 05:59 AM.
Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).
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2009-05-13, 06:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-13, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
There was an update to the wiki on this issue.
Corpses disappear at the start of their side's next turn.
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2009-05-13, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-13, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
It is the start of their respective side's next turn, so Jetstone troops (for example) wouldn't de-pop.
However, you do make a good point. Charlie moves before GK, so the Archons should have de-popped.
A better phrasing would have been that they "survive" one enemy's turn.Last edited by raphfrk; 2009-05-13 at 10:05 AM.
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2009-05-13, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
If by 'overpowered' you mean 'undefeatable' then I am right with you on none of those enemies not being overpowered. Seriously though. GK, even with Wanda and the 'pliers, is nowhere near as powerful as Sauron. I mean, Sauron was immortal. The only reason he lost the war with the elves is because his hubris got the better of him. Seriously, fighting on the front lines without using the invisibility power of the ring? Foolish. If it hadn't been for that, he never would have lost the one ring and would have had to trip and stumble into the Cracks of Doom in order to be destroyed. Stick a sword in Wanda and she's croaked. Seriously, no comparison.
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2009-05-13, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
Hmm, the pliers would entirely change the way troops are put on the field. Looking at the old maps, troops tend to be put in groups of 8 as I believe that's the max group bonus. Doing that now means you lose. A huge group of GK can just go hex by hex through all of your troops replacing loses and adding new troops every step of the way with decrypted. Unless the enemy can mount attacks without loses (something that can be prevented with proper planning), attrition no longer applies to GK.
Zombie apocalypse for the win!
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2009-05-13, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-13, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-14, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
I responded to you. Teratorn responded to me stating what was basically my argument, but taking my statement out of context so it looked like I was arguing against it. It pokes rather more holes in your argument than it does mine, and I was annoyed that it was used as though it was arguing against me when I had just be arguing the exact same thing against you.
So you also agree with me but think you don't? You agree that BLANDCorporatio's fears are unfounded?
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2009-05-14, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-15, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
True, but not relevant to the point. You seemed to be indicating that Wanda would not be targeted until her newly expanded powers had been displayed. This is not the case. As a caster she will be attacked with whatever resources can be brought to bear against her. She looks to be a fairly significant character in Book 3 (or whenever the story resumes with GK after Book 2) and so will probably enjoy a fair amount of plot armor. But she will still be attacked as often and as vigorously as any wise opponent is able to muster.Something in the game mechanics might discourage larger stacks. Such as traps, or any "AOE" type effect.
Last edited by BillyJimBoBob; 2009-05-15 at 09:42 AM.
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2009-05-15, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
Firstly, I love Stanley's brutal takeover of Faq. Yelling "Stop! ... Hammertime." while zapping a balloon pants wearing creature just screams class. The only way to make it better would be repeated claims of untouchability.
Furthermore, while I was looking at the cast page, I noticed that both Stanley and the Arkenhammer have "Taming Dwagons" listed as strengths. Does this mean that Arkentools align with people who share at least one strength with themselves? Perhaps the power of the arkentool is determined by the degree to which the tool's strengths and those of the wielder align.
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2009-05-15, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146
In other words, there's no real reason to believe that the spell-created equipment for Parson should not be classified as magic items, just the desire to call them artifacts. Why couldn't they be magic items? They are a byproduct of a spell created and cast by mortals.
Don't forget we are talking about two different things, the bracer, glasses, and sword are not directly what puzzles Sizemore: it's Parson's calculator watch, which uses semiconductors, "magic" from Parson's world and thus new to Sizemore.
Now what I find cool is that the items pop with the food, so that the perfect warlord spell is seen to integrate with the existing magic system that deals with upkeep, that provides food for regular Erf units.Quo vadis?