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Thread: Erfworld 162

  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Why does everyone assume that ... just because he broke Erfworld's control for one fleeting second .. that he is now permanently free?

    It may have been a one time thing brought on by extreme emotion and stress. He's still *in* that world. When the next book starts, we may find he can't swear again. And then he may spend the next book or three trying to figure out how he broke free of the control of Erfworld -- of Fate Magic -- and still longer do it again.

    One second of free expression is not freedom. It may take the next book -- or many books -- for him to become truly free. Who knows?
    This right here is effectively why I mentioned not being able to tell whether or not Parson got his pupils back in the last panel, which would have been another indication of his freedom. I wonder if it was a deliberate decision for us not to be able to tell, or a limitation brought on by image size.
    Last edited by Juhn; 2009-05-24 at 04:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    I like the ending part, the cursing probably distracted attention from it, but the sword represented ruthlessness. He could actually be a hippymancer afterall; a hippy doesn't need ruthlessness.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    The doom artifact melted in the volcano? That always gets rid of it never to reappear again; no ominous sparkels of magic flying away too... aw, crap.

    Also very well drawn Jamie did a very good job on this strip. And congrats to Rob, this strip was very powerful use of a swear word. The best I can recall by a wide margin.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Wow, that was amazing. I never thought such a commonly-used swearword in the world at large could be made into a crowning moment of awesome. The cutesy lack of swearing in the comic so far really made this have such a huge, meaningful impact. Epic win.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by ishnar View Post
    Well, no one was called a troll for "not liking the strip." rather there were some unjustified accusations made and a few closed minded comments made that drew a negative response. If someone just came on and said, "The ending just didn't do anything for me." then they would not have been accused of trolling.
    The thing that drew most ire (and the troll comment) was Jamin's post that called the strip vulgar, and trying to be dark and edgy. They are just subjective measurements, and don’t deserve comments telling him to "grow up," "lighten up," and worse. Thinking the strip is vulgar boils down to someone saying "The ending just didn't do anything for me. Here's why:" why in nine hells rationalizing a dislike of something is considered trolling I'll never know.
    Last edited by WarriorTribble; 2009-05-24 at 06:29 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    In my opinion using the f-word is rude and never justified.
    In your opinion that swear was important way to show parson's control over his own fate
    Is my opinion right? For me it is. Is your opinion right? For you it is.
    Swell. Unfortunately for you, all opinions are not born equal. Hell, I can think of half-a-dozen situations in which using the word is justifiable, just off the top of my noggin.
    As writers, Rich and Rob think the word has merit when applied in the right situation. As a writer, I agree. And may I ask, from which position exactly are you opposing?

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    XD Brilliant. In other words Rose, you're not Parson Gotti.
    Yes, I know. For one thing, I don't try to swear nearly as often as he does.
    Dude, have you been reading this comic? If you had his life you'd be swearing too.
    Gamers swear all the damn-hell-ass time. Rob's most likely going for verisimilitude with his portrayal of Parson, the epitome of 'gamer'. Not making a value judgement about profanity. Representing a traditionally profane section of society accurately.
    Would you prefer it if soldiers in the war movies minded their p's and q's too?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Gorilla View Post
    Swell. Unfortunately for you, all opinions are not born equal. Hell, I can think of half-a-dozen situations in which using the word is justifiable, just off the top of my noggin.
    As writers, Rich and Rob think the word has merit when applied in the right situation. As a writer, I agree. And may I ask, from which position exactly are you opposing?
    So my opinion is less than yours because you are writer. Kay in that case as a comedian I decide all that is funny in the world. Wait no that isn't how it works. we all human and deserve to have our voices heard.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    So my opinion is less than yours because you are writer.
    Hey, don't put words in my mouth. I asked you a question.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    oh maybe I misunderstood What do you mean by position?
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    oh maybe I misunderstood What do you mean by position?
    I was asking if you had any special insight which might make your opinion carry more weight.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    No I don't have a phd in Erfworldology I have an opinion it worth just as much as yours. Why is yours better than mine?
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    No I don't have a phd in Erfworldology I have an opinion it worth just as much as yours. Why is yours better than mine?
    I'm not saying it's better. I'm throwing my lot in with Rob and to a lesser extent Rich, who both have made it clear where they stand and what they think that profanity can contribute to a scene of catharsis. It's a technique I've used in the past, and will use again; although considering the mechanics of Erfworld itself, this was an especially effective instance.

    People, and I will include myself in this, are irritated because several posters, including yourself, seem inclined to dismiss this attempt at a poignant and dramatic coda to an unquestionably epic story as merely an offhand and vulgar application of an overused epithet.

    I won't apologise for not holding your opinion in the same esteem as theirs, as they're both artists whose work I respect, whereas I don't know enough about you to confer upon you a similar level of regard. Having assumed that you don't define yourself as a writer and that therefore that you weren't likely to be familiar with creative use of profanity, I mentioned my occupation as an indication that I perhaps would be more cognizant of the creative process that would lead to a product like the one we are discussing.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Wow...Just wow.

    Nice conclusion too part one.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Well I can see that my words are not wanted here. Clearly if I have a different opinion than the creators of something they are right and I am wrong. Well by that logic we should love everything because writers wrote it.
    But I just want to say that I never attacked anyone it was you guys who said "I wish I could flame him" "Grow up" "You don't write so you are not as cool as people who do" You are all just defending what you love and I can understand that but there was no need to attack me for not liking it. I don't like swearing or over the top violence or sex scenes. If you do, great it doesn't hurt me. I was not trying to troll because truthfully I did not think that anyone would really care enough to respond. I am sorry if my not loving that swear and not saying that it is the greatest thing ever has hurt you somehow.
    I hope you all keep on enjoying Erfworld
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Well, I at least like seeing dissenting opinions. If nothing else, I've this crazy theory that the anger people feel for unpopular opinions will eventually exhaust them, and make people slightly more tolerant (or at least more civil) overall.
    Last edited by WarriorTribble; 2009-05-24 at 08:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Well, I'm back. I said I wasn't going to post after Stanley made his run for the mysterious Stealthy Mountains, and I meant it. But now that the story is over, I do have a few observations to make, both story and audience.

    There were a number of plot holes in this story, and for as much thought and argument that went into the audience participation area, after a certain point no one wanted to point them out. I would say that the intimidating walls o' text that often come from the regular posters had a bit to do with it.

    First, (and for those who remember me) there was the "Why did Parson put Jillian back into play so close to the Donut of Doom?" Yes, I'm STILL beefing on that. Having played numerous hex based games, I know you don't put an enemy piece back on the board where there is ANY possibility of them hitting your strongest units, or anything super critical to you plans.

    Second, and the reason I left, mountains are not stealthy. They don't hide behind the trees, they don't duck down into valleys. They LOOM! They DOMINATE the skyline! If they are lurking way back on the horizon, they are far away. Too far for Stanley to fly to in a single move, especially if they were the shorter ranged dwagons as was presented in the story. And I lived in the Shadow of Pikes Peak when I wrote of my displeasure with that particular plot point, and often drove east quite a ways into Eastern Colorado. One thing I noticed, even 40 or 50 miles away was The Mountain. So when we see Gobwin Knob, and a lack of "nearby" mountains, I'm gonna say something about it. The mountains on page 3? Yeah, I saw them. Notice the haze around them, their small size? That's usually indicative of distance.

    Third, can't these guys count? Seriously, "one" does not equal "many," in any math text book I ever studied. Now I'll admit I was a Liberal Arts major (History and Political Science, and a Master's of Education), and took the easiest Algebra class I could find for my math credits, but HERE it says GK has one metal golem, while here there are four more. Now before you try to say the metallic color is the same as the soft rock golem, Golem (sorry, didn't want to dig up the umlat, but I know it belongs there) must be the same as the Christopher Cross golem, let me cut you off right there with a "Don't even try it!" Golem more or less equals Kiss, and Beth not withstanding, Kiss was metal through and through. The Hard Rock Golems were presented as brown, in this panel, so if Golem was only a Hard Rock unit, the color shift needs to be explained in story. If Sizemore upgraded his Hard Rockers into Metal, we kind of need to see that somewhere, otherwise it is what is commonly known as an asspull.

    Fourth: varying gravity. It's a different world, with different rules, but Wanda should have been all over the Arkenpliers here, and not having to wait until the end of the story. Sure, it would have changed the endgame, but if the authors could just stop cheating Parson to advance the story, it would have been much more satisfying.

    There is more, but I'll hold off for now.

    So, you're probably asking why do I read the story, if I don't like it so much? Actually, I loved this story, from the time I started reading it about 30 pages in until the ending. The artwork is amazing, the story and especially the details are so rich and clever, what's not to like? Besides the gaping plot holes that so many people are willing to ignore.

    I'll see you guys over on the Erfworld page! I'm using the Erf version of my GiantITP avatar, so feel free to tell me in all the myriad ways I am wrong, and Rob and Jamie wrote nothing but pure perfection.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Well, I'm back. I said I wasn't going to post after Stanley made his run for the mysterious Stealthy Mountains, and I meant it. But now that the story is over, I do have a few observations to make, both story and audience........
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    So my opinion is less than yours because you are writer. Kay in that case as a comedian I decide all that is funny in the world. Wait no that isn't how it works. we all human and deserve to have our voices heard.
    "We are all human and deserve to have our voices heard."

    That is a fine and noble sentiment, right up until somebody uses it to say something like "The sun revolves around the earth" or "I think we should boil the children alive." These, while they are certainly opinions, are not in any way worth hearing.

    All opinions are not equal. If you express an opinion that is contrary to the prevailing social currents, then you should expect some antagonism. That doesn't have to mean you're wrong, but it does mean that if you can't handle antagonism, then you shouldn't express your opinions.

    <3 :)

    PS: I liked the strip, can't wait for the book :)
    Last edited by valce; 2009-05-24 at 11:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valce View Post
    If you express an opinion that is contrary to the prevailing social currents, then you should expect some antagonism.
    Really, now. I wouldn't call six forum pages "prevailing social currents". Personally, I found the cussing less significant than the fact that Parson threw away the sword. There are strong symbolic associations with that gesture.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Bravo, great comic, great ending and quite outstanding job Mr Balder and Mr. Noguchi. I can't wait to get my hands in the printed version and I'm very glad I got the chance to read it here. Many thanks.

    I do have to agree partially with Srufing HalfOrc thou, there r some minor plotholes in the comic. But IMHO and great stroy counts way more then the ability to proprely acount for golens

    And about the discussion if booping is good/bad/should be used/will be... seriously....

    Its an matter of opinion. If someone is an vegetarian someoneelse shouldn't be cooking steak in this veggie kitchen. That dosen't mean that steaks ar good or bad, just that they shouldn't be in the space that belongs to someone that don't like then.

    Mr. Burlew created an wonderfull 655 course vegie meal, and in his house he welcomed erfworld that gave us an 150 course vegie meal plus one single strip of bacon.

    I personaly like brazilian BBQ quite a lot, but hey this ain't my house and here there is some amazing food, so lets enjoy this place under the rules of the guy how made it all. Now if in the 2nd Erfworld book there is going to be more meat, thats up to Rob and Jamie, now they are in there own joint. But one thing that I belive really matters, and I'm quite shure won't be an desapontment is: "Will the food be Tasty?"Vegetarian or not, I bet it will.

    Oh boy I need to get out more, way to many culinary analogies
    *remember, english is not my mother language, heck, it's not even my aunt language, well maybe my 3rd degree cousin language

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    "We are all human and deserve to have our voices heard."

    The fact that this was thrown into a forum debate over a comic strip and a swearword suggests that the guy who said it has some trouble with perspective.

    The fact that it was taken completely seriously suggests that the lot of us need to leave our keyboards and go outside. Howsabout we lay the debate to rest? Fine, done, amen. The sword's glowing eyes have been pointed out as a possible sign that the magic in it is dissipating or moving elsewhere. If we go by the giant hippiemancer gambit, it's also a sign that the sword has done its job by getting Parson to choose throwing it away. But when you're against the hippiemancer conspiracy, what isn't its instrument?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir View Post
    As someone who read the first few strips way back when and thought "what a waste of time" and gradually changed his mind as things progressed I've now come full circle.
    So, Faramir has returned to considering it a waste of time?

    I know it's not what was intended, but it's what “come full circle” means: returning to your starting point.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Nice. A great conclusion to Book 1.

    Of course, come Book 2, it'll probably show up in his Stupid Meal. Cursed items are like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    First, (and for those who remember me) there was the "Why did Parson put Jillian back into play so close to the Donut of Doom?" Yes, I'm STILL beefing on that. Having played numerous hex based games, I know you don't put an enemy piece back on the board where there is ANY possibility of them hitting your strongest units, or anything super critical to you plans.
    Needed to be within range of the column so Ansom could be lured out to rescue her. That was the plan at that moment. IIRC, it wasn't until the next turn that he came up with and implemented the doughnut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Second, and the reason I left, mountains are not stealthy.
    Artistic license. Plus, erfworld may not have the best draw-distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    HERE it says GK has one metal golem, while here there are four more....If Sizemore upgraded his Hard Rockers into Metal, we kind of need to see that somewhere, otherwise it is what is commonly known as an asspull.
    I'll admit that this one has me wondering as well. Likeliest suspect is that they were upgraded as the aformentioned bonus that golems receive when lead by a Dirtamancer, but that certainly can't be proven without the authors confirmation. I don't expect them to explain everything in their comic, but it would have been nice to know in this particular case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Fourth: varying gravity. It's a different world, with different rules, but Wanda should have been all over the Arkenpliers here, and not having to wait until the end of the story.
    Varying gravity? Eh, not really. Pliers fall. She gives orders, then flies down. Flying is probably slower then falling, especially as she does need to pull up a little towards the end of the flight. Plenty of time for an intercept shot. Some of the perspective shots do look a little off, but I would chalk that up to artistic license once again.
    As for waiting the extra time, Parson needed to be forced into using his terrible last resort in order to grow as a character. Decrypt would have probably won the day, but not in such a horrific manner that would allow Parson to question himself and the world. This is the position that the authors needed him to be in for the next chapter. I don't think winning the battle in any other way would have had the necessary impact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorTribble View Post
    The thing that drew most ire (and the troll comment) was Jamin's post that called the strip vulgar, and trying to be dark and edgy. They are just subjective measurements, and don’t deserve comments telling him to "grow up," "lighten up," and worse. Thinking the strip is vulgar boils down to someone saying "The ending just didn't do anything for me. Here's why:" why in nine hells rationalizing a dislike of something is considered trolling I'll never know.
    It may not be trolling, but it's telegraphing "I missed the entire point!" pretty loud and clear.

    You know, there's a forest out there, and one might see it, if they stop focusing so much on those pesky trees getting in their way.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by valce View Post
    That doesn't have to mean you're wrong
    Nor does it mean you're right.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    The boop filter isn't the only rule Parson broke - throwing away the sword would seem to be a violation of Duty.

    I wonder if he will order Wanda, Sizemore and Maggie not to mention the sword to Stanley (who doesn't know he had it). I guess until Book 2, and probably even then, I'll just have to assume that Stanley is so overwhelmed by everything that's happened that what the sword thing says about Parson's loyalty won't stand out to him.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    No I don't have a phd in Erfworldology I have an opinion it worth just as much as yours. Why is yours better than mine?
    I kinda see your positions as one of Armchair Moralist. You sit back and simply criticise whatever media that violates your personnal convention. It's easy to have basic moralities in that situation (like your "Swear words are never acceptable", very basic)

    I am in the same boat than you. However, there are some people (writers) who actually have to ask themselves wether or not a swear word here would emphasise what they want to say, or if it would be simply vulgar. Then again, maybe they effectively want to show vulgarity, and that's the point?

    The people who properly write and try to be serious about it (and don't go over the top to create Cluster F-bomb) have to consider swearing in their work, and thus they have more experience in actually consdering the pros and cons of including swear word into their story.

    You? You read, and say: "that's wrong". You don't consider, you simply criticize/condone the media that you absorb, like the majority of the population.

    Are you wrong because of it? No. wether you are right or wrong in the argument is irrelevant on how much you are qualified to talk about it. Like somebody said, you can be right for all the wrong reasons, or wrong for all the right reasons.

    Personnally, I think that any "absolutism" view of morality, in any kind of case, is wrong. If you restrict yourself to always take the same side of an issue, no matter the circumstances, then I say you would lack proper consideration of that issue. which is why I totally dislike Rorschak's morality, he is an abomination (but he's great as a character). Rorschach is right, but for the wrong reasons. In the end, he does good, but he is still misguided, in my opinion.

    There are issues that I have difficulties to find the circumstance that would make them "acceptable" on the side of morality. But because I lack imagination doesn't mean I don't have to always look at what's presented to me.

    So, for me, saying that "swearwords are never justified" is wrong. But you could say: "Saying **** in that coming was out of place" might be right. In the end, you are simply examining Erfworld #162, and its content. So rather than making generalisation out of your jugement of #162, or using your generalisation to juge #162, let's just keep our talk @ #162, without needing to create Grand Rules of Morality out of it.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by glissle View Post
    The boop filter isn't the only rule Parson broke - throwing away the sword would seem to be a violation of Duty.
    In that precise moment, probably Parson was totally free from Erfword's rules.
    But Duty compels you not simply to obey, but to act in a way that favors your Leader.
    Parson could throw away the sword, if said object doesn't let him think by his own way.
    A strategist most precious weapon is his mind, and Parson is no exception; he's not confortable with the sword.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 162

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexei P View Post
    Really, now. I wouldn't call six forum pages "prevailing social currents".
    I think valce was talking about the increasingly casual use of profanity across society. I may be wrong.
    Last edited by Island Gorilla; 2009-05-25 at 06:24 AM.

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