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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    It's set in a futuristic world with advanced science, robots and laser guns, it's a freaking sci-fi fantasy.
    No, it's set in a fantastic world with demons, angels, magic and 5000 years old wizards wanting to bring the apocalypse. Definitely fantasy.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mask View Post
    No, it's set in a fantastic world with demons, angels, magic and 5000 years old wizards wanting to bring the apocalypse. Definitely fantasy.
    Scie-fi fantacy.
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    You can say it's Fantasy because we have everything in it
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    To deny the hyper-advanced technology already present from the Sovices... It's just silly. It may take place in a fantasy world, but it still has sci-fi elelments. As previously mentioned, the Pern series qualifies as Science-Fantasy and yet seems to have little to do with science, so a fantasy series with LOTS to do with technology MUST qualify.
    Last edited by Darklord Bright; 2009-05-30 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    Scie-fi fantacy.
    It has no elements of science fiction other than the advanced technology.

    No extraterrestrials, no spaceships, does not happen in the future, does not speculate on the future of science, could not happen in any way in reality, ergo: fantasy.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mask View Post
    It has no elements of science fiction other than the advanced technology.

    No extraterrestrials, no spaceships, does not happen in the future, does not speculate on the future of science, could not happen in any way in reality, ergo: fantasy.
    Sci-Fi does not have to have all of those things. If I recall, there WERE spaceships in an FFF comic not long ago, they looked like giant whales. Some sci-fis don't even have space travel.

    Edit: That being said, I do not believe it is a purebred of either genre.
    Last edited by Darklord Bright; 2009-05-30 at 09:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    There was also Vendetta and Q had some battleship too...
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Chocobo View Post
    Holy hell. If you could split atoms like you split hairs you could power a country on fission energy.
    It has robots and spaceships. That's not science fiction enough?
    Yeah, I probably could. But I'm not Dr. Manhatten yet.
    Star Wars has WWII dogfights, storylines ripped straight from Arthurian legends, swordfighting, and magic. It's not Science Fiction, there is no solid grounding in science anywhere in the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    It's set in a futuristic world with advanced science, robots and laser guns, it's a freaking sci-fi fantasy god damn it!
    It was intended to be Sci-Fi, but dragons, vampires and mages turned up in the first few comics, so the Sci-Fi part went out the window.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    Sci-Fi does not have to have all of those things. If I recall, there WERE spaceships in an FFF comic not long ago, they looked like giant whales. Some sci-fis don't even have space travel.
    Nameless and MM were commenting on P3, which hasn't featured spaceships yet. It's assumed they're there, Fort Longcat was built in that era for example, but we haven't shown any in comic.

    I should make a P3 comic one of these days. I have the opportunity while we're waiting on Lying to make a FFF one.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    Sci-Fi does not have to have all of those things. If I recall, there WERE spaceships in an FFF comic not long ago, they looked like giant whales. Some sci-fis don't even have space travel.

    Edit: That being said, I do not believe it is a purebred of either genre.
    Fantasy has magic. Science fiction has science and no magic (it could possibly happen in the real future).

    ABR has magic, ergo it is fantasy.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Keris Rain View Post
    Nameless and MM were commenting on P3, which hasn't featured spaceships yet. It's assumed they're there, Fort Longcat was built in that era for example, but we haven't shown any in comic.
    Ah, I see. I misunderstood. Still, I'm looking for the comic I was referencing to be sure I actually saw it. It was either MMs or Lying's.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    It's here.

    EDIT: These spaceships can use FTL in a magical corridor that contains hell and heaven, I don't think they're science fiction.
    Last edited by Mad Mask; 2009-05-30 at 10:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Keris Rain View Post
    Nameless and MM were commenting on P3, which hasn't featured spaceships yet.
    I'm sure they did:

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mask View Post
    It's here.
    Aha! The whale-ship-things!

    I still don't agree that it's a pure fantasy though. It's certainly not sci-fi, but it's also not fantasy. Also, the Science = scifi, Magic = Fantasy thing is a fallacy if ever I've heard one. If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.

    Edit: Would Stargate become fantasy if the gate was a magical travel device like TJH intead of a Wormhole-manipulator-doohicky? I'm tempted to say yes, given that it would probably become a modern fantasy, but what if the planets were still planets and the aliens were still aliens?
    Last edited by Darklord Bright; 2009-05-30 at 10:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    Aha! The whale-ship-things!

    I still don't agree that it's a pure fantasy though. It's certainly not sci-fi, but it's also not fantasy. Also, the Science = scifi, Magic = Fantasy thing is a fallacy if ever I've heard one. If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.
    So we can call it Science Fiction even if it doesn't include science ?

    In my book, both of these examples would be fantasy for reasons I have already mentioned.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mask View Post
    So we can call it Science Fiction even if it doesn't include science ?

    In my book, both of these examples would be fantasy for reasons I have already mentioned.
    No, but you CAN call it science fiction if it contains Science as a prevailant theme with Magic as a small detail of a single alien race or other such thing. I never said otherwise. I merely said that the presence of science does not deny the presence of magic, or visa versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    Aha! The whale-ship-things!

    I still don't agree that it's a pure fantasy though. It's certainly not sci-fi, but it's also not fantasy. Also, the Science = scifi, Magic = Fantasy thing is a fallacy if ever I've heard one. If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.

    Edit: Would Stargate become fantasy if the gate was a magical travel device like TJH intead of a Wormhole-manipulator-doohicky? I'm tempted to say yes, given that it would probably become a modern fantasy, but what if the planets were still planets and the aliens were still aliens?
    You do know that there's been made international rules for what is needed for something to be science fiction don't you (there''s made rules like this for all genres) They state that science fiction has to be in the future of the time it was wrote and a possible one (given the beliefs of the tie of course, else most of the stuff would change genre because it's proven wrong) so nope none of this could be Science fiction (magic is impossible)
    I can't remember what fantasy needs but I'm pretty sure aliens are allowed (I think that there's something with mystical/magical creatures that aliens can be, like in EGS)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post

    At first, it was the smiley faces and the mannerisms. Then, it was the infernal magpie. It struck a chord. A cutely fiendish, macabre chord.

    An then I saw Keveak in the sorting hat and you are just the cutest thing when you want to be. My gosh look at that. It's squee-inducing.

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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Does it really matter?

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Keveak View Post
    You do know that there's been made international rules for what is needed for something to be science fiction don't you (there''s made rules like this for all genres) They state that science fiction has to be in the future of the time it was wrote and a possible one (given the beliefs of the tie of course, else most of the stuff would change genre because it's proven wrong) so nope none of this could be Science fiction (magic is impossible)
    I can't remember what fantasy needs but I'm pretty sure aliens are allowed (I think that there's something with mystical/magical creatures that aliens can be, like in EGS)
    I was not aware there were 'Rules' for fiction. In spite, I may have to go and see how many genres I can mix together and see how many heads I can make explode trying to work out what mix it is.

    And no, it doesn't really matter. I just have this awful twitching need to defend my point if it is challanged.
    Last edited by Darklord Bright; 2009-05-30 at 10:30 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mask View Post
    EDIT: These spaceships can use FTL in a magical corridor that contains hell and heaven, I don't think they're science fiction.
    FTL is generally sketchy when you define elements of hard science fiction. It's fantasy, but generally allowed as a plot device, otherwise interstellar travel would be infeasible.
    Hyperspace, though, is generally considered on the soft side.

    Quote Originally Posted by -skimmer- View Post
    I'm sure they did:

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    -snip-
    Ah yes, I'd forgotten the incident with the "Plotaporter". Which, despite P3 being a prequel to F3, doesn't constitute time travel for some reason.
    I'm not sure as to the canonicity of that entire arc, what with the "richest person in the whole universe" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.
    If they used magic as in "tapping into the cosmic forces", then it would be a fantasy element, and so the genre would be Science Fantasy. If they used "magic" with the aid of technological marvels, then it would be Sci-Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    Would Stargate become fantasy if the gate was a magical travel device like TJH intead of a Wormhole-manipulator-doohicky? I'm tempted to say yes, given that it would probably become a modern fantasy, but what if the planets were still planets and the aliens were still aliens?
    Stargate already presents the gate as a magical device. Do they have any understanding of how it works? Could they build their own? It's Clarke's third law in action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keveak View Post
    You do know that there's been made international rules for what is needed for something to be science fiction don't you (there''s made rules like this for all genres)
    I'm going to be very doubtful of this unless you can cite them.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Whats that TV Tropes? You have something to say?
    Science Fiction
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    I couldn't resist!
    FFF
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    That... When...

    O,,o

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    I think now I see the problem with genre 'rules'. There is no way of telling to what extent you can take them each way before the genre changes.

    (And a quick check of 'international fiction genre rules' brings up many hits detailing how hard it is to tell what classifies as what genre, so a deal of skepticism is won by me as well.)

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    Does it really matter?
    Probably not, but it makes for interesting conversation.


    Keris or MM; what's FTL? I only know the acronym as "For the lose"...
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by memnarch View Post
    Probably not, but it makes for interesting conversation.


    Keris or MM; what's FTL? I only know the acronym as "For the lose"...
    Faster Than Light.
    Always makes me think of Battlestar Galactica.
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    I couldn't resist!
    FFF
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    That... When...

    O,,o

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    It was intended to be Sci-Fi, but dragons, vampires and mages turned up in the first few comics, so the Sci-Fi part went out the window.
    It does have spaceships as Skimmer pointed out.
    So as I said it's a sci-fi fantasy.
    And even though that's not exactly what sci-fi fantasy means, I don't care.
    Last edited by Nameless; 2009-05-30 at 10:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    It does have spaceships as Skimmer pointed out.
    So as I said it's a sci-fi fantasy.
    And even though that's not exactly what sci-fi fantasy means, I don't care.
    From the descriptions I've seen, these plots are exactly that, but I'm starting to care less and less about genre classifications as this conversation drags on.

    Why limit myself to a 'Genre'? Why work within the bounds set for me when writing, for me, exemplifies the desire to break free from those bounds? Do the impossible just to see if I can?

    ...I'm going to go write a story now.
    Last edited by Darklord Bright; 2009-05-30 at 10:48 AM.

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    smile Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Keris Rain View Post

    I'm going to be very doubtful of this unless you can cite them.
    Ask your English teacher or something, I've only heard them mentioned once (it's part of basic danish education to know the genres and what they generally are not why) but I know that they are part of some official rules for literature (I believe it's for stuff like "the years best Scifi book" awards so you are sure it qualifies for it, or maybe it's just how governments are) whether or not we need to use them is up to us, they only matter if we want to have it official (we could call it scifi but they might say fantasy).

    EDIT:
    @Bright: I never work by genre, I think oof genre as something you say it is when done (like I could start a story with scifi and later add magic if I wanned)
    Last edited by Keveak; 2009-05-30 at 10:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post

    At first, it was the smiley faces and the mannerisms. Then, it was the infernal magpie. It struck a chord. A cutely fiendish, macabre chord.

    An then I saw Keveak in the sorting hat and you are just the cutest thing when you want to be. My gosh look at that. It's squee-inducing.

    Avatar by me.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    You guys seem dead set on fitting it into either science fiction or fantasy. Why? It can certainly be both or a mixture of the two, as Nameless said.
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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterPenguin View Post
    You guys seem dead set on fitting it into either science fiction or fantasy. Why? It can certainly be both or a mixture of the two, as Nameless said.
    To be fair, I said it first, but let's not steal Nameless' thunder

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    High Fantasy Science Fiction

    Done.

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    Default Re: Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Fam

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Bright View Post
    Why limit myself to a 'Genre'?
    So that we can the argue about it.

    To be fair, I said it first, but let's not steal Nameless' thunder
    SHUSH! It's my time to finaly be right about something!
    Last edited by Nameless; 2009-05-30 at 10:52 AM.
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