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    Default [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    A while back, while doing a search on the net, I think I ran across a mention of a prestige class that allows you armored casting with all of your classes, if you already have it on one of your classes, such that a warmage / sorcerer, or a beguiler / wizard, or a spelltheif / ... well, you get the idea... would be able to cast their spells while wearing armor.

    Is anyone on the boards familiar with this prestige class?

    And if so, does anyone think it would be worth it?
    Last edited by Josh the Aspie; 2009-05-27 at 01:27 AM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    Is anyone on the boards familiar with this prestige class?
    Edit:
    From Surreal's Lists of Stuff
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane Spell Failure (ASF) reduction - or casting in armor
    Bard, light armor
    Fighter, Armored Mage alternative class feature, Complete Mage, light armor
    Duskblade 1, 4, 7/20, Player's Handbook 2, casting in light armor, medium armor, then heavy shields respectively
    Bladesinger 6, ecl 11, Complete Warrior, cast in light armor
    Hexblade, Complete Warrior, casting in light armor
    Spellsword 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10, ecl 6, Complete Warrior, 10/15/20/25/30%
    Rage Mage 2, ecl 7, Complete Warrior, -10% in light or medium armor
    Spellthief, Complete Adventurer, casting in light armor
    Fochlucan Lyrist 1, ecl 11, Complete Adventure, cast in light armor
    Warmage 1, 8/20, Complete Arcane, casting in light then medium armor
    Suel Arcanamach 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 7, Complete Arcane, 5% each time
    Battlecaster, feat, Complete Arcane, allows casting in armor one category heavier (unclear whether you gain proficiency)
    Geomancer 1, ecl ?, Complete Divine, see text

    Dragon Devotee 3, ecl 8, Races of the Dragon, ignore ASF for 0-level and 1st-level spells
    Arcane Heirophant 1, ecl 6, Races of the Wild, casting in non-metallic light or medium armor
    Runesmith 1, ecl 6, Races of Stone, cast in any armor, see text
    Knight of the Weave 2, ecl 7, Champions of Valor, cast in light armor, in medium at level 8
    Pale Master 4, 8/10, ecl 9, Libris Mortis, -10% each for undead armor
    Knight Phantom 1, ecl 6, Eberron: Five Nations, casting in light armor
    Corrupt Avenger 1, ecl 7, Heroes of Horror, light armor
    Silver Key 1, ecl 5, Eberron: Dragonmarked, light armor, abjuration only
    Githyanky Battlecaster, feat, Monster Manual 4, light armor
    Fatemaker 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook, light
    Ebonmar Infiltrator 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text
    Urban Savant 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text
    Knight of the Weave 2, ecl 7, FR: Champions of Valor, cast in light for all classes, medium at level 8

    Twilight, armor enhancement, Book of Exalted Deeds, -10%
    Thistledown, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
    Leafweave, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
    Feycraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
    Githcraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
    Hellforged, armor template, DMG2, +5%
    Blue Ice, component, Frostburn, cast [Cold] spells without ASF
    Note that the base classes listed here typically only cast in-class spells in armor.
    Spellthief with the Master Spellthief feat (CS) is an exception.

    Since you can get the ability through armor enhancements and the class routes typically lose caster levels, I don't think it's worth it via PrC.

    A Mithril Chain Shirt can work pretty easily for most characters once wither Twilight or Thistledown/a template is applied.

    And I think the MIC gives rules for enhancing robes and non-armor clothing, but I could be making that up.
    Last edited by Goatman_Ted; 2009-05-27 at 01:40 AM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    A while back, while doing a search on the net, I think I ran across a mention of a prestige class that allows you armored casting with all of your classes, if you already have it on one of your classes, such that a warmage / sorcerer, or a beguiler / wizard, or a spelltheif / ... well, you get the idea... would be able to cast their spells while wearing armor.

    Is anyone on the boards familiar with this prestige class?

    And if so, does anyone think it would be worth it?
    Only way it's worth it is for a Beguiler/Wizard/UM, to get other benefits from that lost CL. Generally armor<spells. AC 1000 is not much better than AC 80, and often is no better than AC 40. However, as a caster, you probably will have AC of about 10 points lower than it needs to be, which isn't worth it, since that lost spell level could have been giving you Displacement or similar. Armor can only boost it so much(you could just Use Mage Armor for the same benefit up until about level 6, and similar, better, splls for higher levels).

    That said, there are ways of getting Armored Casting and making it decent. Spellsword 1 works, as long as you stop there. ASF reducers like the classic Twilight Mithral, maybe tossing Feycraft or similar, and IIRC there's a Dwarf-only PrC that gets you casting in any armor called the Runesmith or something. Incantrix 10 works, too, if you use Still Spell.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Beguiler/Wizard/UM was actually the build I was looking at the armor for.

    Spellthief obviously does not apply here.
    Prestige bard looses spell-levels.

    And most of the other classes seem to as well.

    Yeah, I'm not really looking at loosing MORE caster levels.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    The feat Master Spellthief in Complete Scoundrel does what you're looking for, though you need a level of Spellthief to take it.

    Mithral reduces ASF by 10%, Twilight enchantment reduces ASF by 10%, a Thistledown Suit from Races of the Wild reduces ASF by 10%. A +1 Twilight Mithril Breastplate with a Thistledown Suit has a 0% chance of arcane spell failure. You're better off buying a Lesser Rod of Extend and using Greater Mage Armor IMO.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Blue Ice, component, Frostburn, cast [Cold] spells without ASF
    Snowcasting!
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Can't you just use still spell? I know it takes a higher level slot, but if you take a PrC don't you lose slots anyway, so by avoiding them it's the same overall? I'm not familiar with the classes mentioned though, so if any of them give full casting progression that would be better than this way.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    A while back, while doing a search on the net, I think I ran across a mention of a prestige class that allows you armored casting with all of your classes
    I think it's the PrC Spellsword (Complete Fighter).
    It's not a great class, but a one lev. dip can be good (if I remember correctly, at first lev., the chance of spell failure for armor, is reduceD by 10%)
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagren View Post
    Can't you just use still spell? I know it takes a higher level slot, but if you take a PrC don't you lose slots anyway, so by avoiding them it's the same overall? I'm not familiar with the classes mentioned though, so if any of them give full casting progression that would be better than this way.
    I asked about this a while ago, I had a picture in my mind of a Wizard casting whilst wearing full plate. Apparently, you can still everything and be okay. You can even skip armour proficiencies if you go Eldritch Knight, which makes up for the attack penalties.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcsw View Post
    Snowcasting!
    Your avatar combined with that post somehow made this whole thread awesome.

    :)

    But yeah, tons of ways to get it.
    If you want really heavy armor all you need is the ability to ignore the arcane spell failure in any sort of armor and then take the battlecaster feat.

    Geomancer is my favourite.
    Though a single level of Barbarian and rage mage is cool. ;)
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Yes, I am familiar with many of the ways to reduce Arcane Spell Failure chance.

    I was simply seeing if there was a way to remove Arcane Spell Failure chance for certain armor classes period without loosing a casting level.

    Also, Spellsword requires proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, meaning I'd still need a level dip someplace to get -that-.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    if your a Dwarf and willing to spend feats on Armour proficiency - Rune Smith lets you cast in heavy amour
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    Also, Spellsword requires proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, meaning I'd still need a level dip someplace to get -that-.
    Kinda cheesy, but often cited as a work around, is to gain the outsider type by hook or by crook. There is a regional feat in PGtF called Otherworldly, but its only open to some humans and elves. That allows you to qualify for Spellsword or Eldritch Knight. Another option would be to be a full planetouched, and buy off the LA. Lesser Planetouched don't have outsider weapon/armor proficencies, IIRC.

    If you are looking at armor as a cheap place to stash a couple extra enchants like Fortification, Freedom, or Soulfire, consider a Mithril Buckler. Wizards aren't proficient with bucklers, but the only penalty you suffer for non-proficiency is that you take the armor check penalty as a penalty to your attack rolls. Well, Mith Bucklers have -0 ACP, they also confer a -0 penalty to hit. ALSO, a Mithril Buckler has 0% ASF, which means that it doesn't hinder you in any way. So, you could buy a Mithril Buckler +1 with Soulfire on it for a scant ~26000g and never worry about negative energy again!
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie
    Beguiler/Wizard/UM was actually the build I was looking at the armor for.

    Spellthief obviously does not apply here.
    Obviously?

    Unless you're using an Illumian, replacing a level of Wizard with a level of Spellthief has the same Wizard spellcasting level once you hit level 12 and casts the same level of Beguiler spells (albiet advancing a level behind).

    Yeah, I'm not really looking at loosing MORE caster levels.
    Amended list:
    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal
    Runesmith 1, ecl 6, Races of Stone, cast in any armor, see text
    Urban Savant 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text

    Twilight, armor enhancement, Book of Exalted Deeds, -10%
    Thistledown, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
    Leafweave, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
    Feycraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
    Githcraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
    Hellforged, armor template, DMG2, +5%
    Blue Ice, component, Frostburn, cast [Cold] spells without ASF
    Last edited by Goatman_Ted; 2009-05-27 at 12:53 PM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    You... have a very good point there Goatman.

    I was indeed planning on playing Illuman, but I recently looked at the book, and unless there is an Errata out for that book that I did not find when searching, the Illuman ability adds +1 to the CL of -all- of your casting classes. Thus meaning that since it would also boost wizard's casting level, a beguiler 1 / wizard 4 / Ultimate Magus 10 still looses 2 levels of wizard casting.

    This would leave the online kobold ritual and feat that looses you 3 hp the only way to avoid the second level loss (and then only if you go sorcerer for your spontaneous casting class).

    Edit: Also, yes, Still spell looks like a good option.
    I was just trying to figure out if there was a good class out there to spread the armored casting from my beguiler to my wizard without caster level loss.
    Last edited by Josh the Aspie; 2009-05-27 at 09:35 PM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    You know what is hillarious. I was just googling for alternate armor materials to reduce AFC and this thread came up. I read it and my own post above was not helpful in the slightest. lol.

    Trying to find a costing for Glass-steel dammit (at uni without my books)...

    Anyway, just thought I'd note the hilarity at finding your own post in google on the same topic you are looking for and finding that you are not helpful to yourself... rofl.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    There's always the Githcraft Mithril Twilight Full-Plate for Spellswords around the world; heaviest real armor in the game at 0 ASF. And same as a Breastplate for anyone else. For those who really want to wear an armor as Wizards.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcsw View Post
    Snowcasting!
    Even better: Icemail Armor gives the same bonuses, but with a +2 to cold spells. Guess what Snowcasting turns all your spells into?

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    There's always the Githcraft Mithril Twilight Full-Plate for Spellswords around the world; heaviest real armor in the game at 0 ASF. And same as a Breastplate for anyone else. For those who really want to wear an armor as Wizards.
    With the much cheaper alternative being Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt.

    But.... depending on you level just casting extended Mage Armor each morning is probably fine.

    And honestly, as a Wizard, who needs Armor? Mirror Image says hi.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    You... have a very good point there Goatman.

    I was indeed planning on playing Illuman, but I recently looked at the book, and unless there is an Errata out for that book that I did not find when searching, the Illuman ability adds +1 to the CL of -all- of your casting classes. Thus meaning that since it would also boost wizard's casting level, a beguiler 1 / wizard 4 / Ultimate Magus 10 still looses 2 levels of wizard casting.
    It's +1 per power sigil, in other words +2 after second level. Up to a maximum of your HD.

    Combine with Practiced Spellcaster, this means you can get through UM without losing any caster levels.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by aje8 View Post
    With the much cheaper alternative being Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt.

    But.... depending on you level just casting extended Mage Armor each morning is probably fine.

    And honestly, as a Wizard, who needs Armor? Mirror Image says hi.
    Armor enchantments say hello too (and yeah i know about bracers but hey another source isn't bad)

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    If you can figure out a cheesy no caster level drop entry into Geomancer, it works perfectly.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Incantrix 10 works, too, if you use Still Spell.
    I didn't think her capstone reduced metamagic adjustments below +1.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    I have personally always resorted to this thread, when it comes to finding wizard-friendly armor, although it's basically just throwing money at the problem.

    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=621174

    As has already been mentioned, grabbing miss chances will probably end up saving your hide more than the armor, but, at least with the armor, you can grab some special properties.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Master Spellthief is probably the best dip if you want to cast in armor. It lets you cast in light armor, and if you want to blow another feat, you can then cast in Medium armor, which means Mithral Full Plate. Since Spellthief has +1d6 Sneak Attack, it also lets you get into Unseen Seer with minimal pain.

    In fact, Rogue1/Spellthief1/Wizard5 lets you get into Arcane Trickster a level early. And with Master Spellthief as your 3rd level feat, you get to cast in light armor at no penalty, making it a pretty nice skillmonkey caster hybrid.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2009-08-05 at 12:41 AM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Pshhh, Arcane Trickster is crap compared to Unseen Seer. The spells you get from USS are WAY more useful than the 1-2 dice you get from AT at most levels. The best Arcane Rogue builds I've ever seen are:

    Spellthief1/Wiz4/USS10/AT5
    or
    Spellthief1/Wiz4/USS10/AT3/Archmage2

    With Master Spellthief, you don't suffer any CL loss from Unseen Seer since you apply abilities in the most desired order. Pick up either Divine Insight or Guidance of the Avatar (if allowed), Hunter's Eye, and something like Grave Strike or Vine Strike as applicable for your campaign. Persist Hunter's Eye (8th level spell) and go to town. Useful at all levels except maybe like...3 when you are 1 spell level behind for 2nd level spells, but only as much as the Sorcerer is...
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Pshhh, Arcane Trickster is crap compared to Unseen Seer. The spells you get from USS are WAY more useful than the 1-2 dice you get from AT at most levels. The best Arcane Rogue builds I've ever seen are:

    Spellthief1/Wiz4/USS10/AT5
    or
    Spellthief1/Wiz4/USS10/AT3/Archmage2

    With Master Spellthief, you don't suffer any CL loss from Unseen Seer since you apply abilities in the most desired order. Pick up either Divine Insight or Guidance of the Avatar (if allowed), Hunter's Eye, and something like Grave Strike or Vine Strike as applicable for your campaign. Persist Hunter's Eye (8th level spell) and go to town. Useful at all levels except maybe like...3 when you are 1 spell level behind for 2nd level spells, but only as much as the Sorcerer is...
    I would say this interpretation is wrong but if one is using this interpretation of master spellthief it is impossible to ever get a penalty to your caster level from any source.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post
    I would say this interpretation is wrong but if one is using this interpretation of master spellthief it is impossible to ever get a penalty to your caster level from any source.
    Yeah, I have to agree. It might be RAW, but it's stinky cheese, especially if you still want to claim the USS caster level bonus on divine spells (in that case, you will be applying the feat and the DSP-ability in different order when determining your Divine Spell Power bonus to divination spells, than when determining your penalty to all other schools of spells. If you get zero effect from DSP, that's a bit less cheese, IMHO, but still cheese)

    But, yeah, circumventing PrC penalties like that would be iffy indeed in my game, especially if the Master Spellthief feat is taken before the third level of Unseen Seer, where the DSP+1-ability kicks in.

    It would be like taking the Craven feat and after getting the Craven feat's effect, you apply your Immunity to Fear-ability. No. It will not fly.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    Yeah, I have to agree. It might be RAW, but it's stinky cheese, especially if you still want to claim the USS caster level bonus on divine spells (in that case, you will be applying the feat and the DSP-ability in different order when determining your Divine Spell Power bonus to divination spells, than when determining your penalty to all other schools of spells. If you get zero effect from DSP, that's a bit less cheese, IMHO, but still cheese)

    But, yeah, circumventing PrC penalties like that would be iffy indeed in my game, especially if the Master Spellthief feat is taken before the third level of Unseen Seer, where the DSP+1-ability kicks in.

    It would be like taking the Craven feat and after getting the Craven feat's effect, you apply your Immunity to Fear-ability. No. It will not fly.
    Oh I do not even think it is raw if I am remembering the ability correctly.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Armored Casting Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post
    Oh I do not even think it is raw if I am remembering the ability correctly.
    The ability doesn't mention oddball combination of feats that will try to eliminate all penalties to caster level, ofcourse. The intention is, obviously, to make the Unseen Seer lose caster levels in other schools than Divination.

    Master Spellthief doesn't make a character immune to losing caster levels, which is what the cheese-idea seems based on. The idea wouldn't fly even an extended Fly spell. :)

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