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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    I'd also highly reccomend anything by Neil Gaiman, but especially Neverwhere, Stardust, and The Graveyard Book. Personally, I think American Gods is his best work, but you gotta ease up to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    EDIT: Twilight + Lost Boys =

    I can't get the image of Edward getting Death By Stereo!'d out of my head. (Yup, that exclamation mark is mandatory )


    EDIT: How did I get so many damn typoes in there?
    Last edited by Malfunctioned; 2009-06-03 at 12:05 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by MountainKing View Post
    And Mal... I'm going to start hitting on you in my head now. I don't know when I'll stop.


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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    I'd also highly reccomend anything by Neil Gaiman, but especially Neverwhere, Stardust, and The Graveyard Book. Personally, I think American Gods is his best work, but you gotta ease up to it.
    I quite like Books of Magic too.


    Quote Originally Posted by MountainKing View Post
    And Mal... I'm going to start hitting on you in my head now. I don't know when I'll stop.


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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    I'd also highly reccomend anything by Neil Gaiman, but especially Neverwhere, Stardust, and The Graveyard Book. Personally, I think American Gods is his best work, but you gotta ease up to it.
    American Gods is beyond good. Neil Gaiman also has the advantage of having different works to suit your maturity:

    The Day I Swapped My Dad For Two Goldfish & The Wolves In The Walls - small children.

    Stardust & Coraline - adolescents

    The Sandman - moody teenagers

    American Gods & Anansi Boys - Grownups.

    Not to say you can't enjoy everything he wrote at any age. Because he's good.
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    Speaking of nosedives, Children of Dune and beyond...

    Terry Pratchett, on the other hand, just gets better as he writes more. The way that experience is supposed to work.
    On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    I thought the actor was attractive.
    As Cedric Diggory.
    Quite. I was sad when he died. THAT'S RIGHT - HE DIES!

    Movie was baaaaaaaad. Didn't read the book because I didn't feel like devoting longer than...2 1/2 hours?...of my time to it. Will probably not watch the others unless dragged into it by a female friend - again. Will NOT ever spend money on them, ugh.

    Wanna see some people hate on me? A) I haz a new Recaiden dolly that is hella kewt, and B) I LOVED THE WHEEL OF TIME SERIES!
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
    I like reading through Moving Pictures and trying to spot every single reference. And I quite enjoyed the Moist novels. Going Postal was much better than Making Money, and they're no Night Watch, but they're amusing enough and I don't want Discworld to get too noir.


    * Actually, Making Money was pretty bad.
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  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
    Well, the first Moist novel wasn't bad. It's when the second one looked exactly like the first one but in different decorations that something started to look wrong.
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  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
    Do not blaspheme against Moist Von Lipwig. He has the most badass name of any protagonist ever.

    @Irish - I've noticed that younger children (8-12) think Coraline is a wonderful adventure, and adults (20-death) tend to walk around the house turning on all the lights after reading it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    @Irish - I've noticed that younger children (8-12) think Coraline is a wonderful adventure, and adults (20-death) tend to walk around the house turning on all the lights after reading it.
    When I read Wolves In The Walls to my little sister she went around the house with a stick looking for them. Neil Gaiman is obviously an excellent tool for raising your children.
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  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    And that's exactly why they should read that sort of literature, otherwise they'll never comprehend it.
    Well, yeah, eventually.
    But I don't really want my extremely immature fourteen year old sister reading it now, kthnx.
    She wouldn't enjoy it, and, if she could force herself to read it, I think it would scar her for life.
    However, since I'm a "nerd" and had already been exposed to such things at her age, it was a fine read by me, if a little long and dry (Anne Rice can be accused of such things, really...).

    The problem here is that my sister is intelligent (beyond most of her grade level, anyways), and yet she enjoys stupid things. She's not nerdy, she wouldn't enjoy Pratchett or Gaiman, and so even getting her to read Twilight was a victory for me.

    She couldn't be the prince, and she'd never be a princess.
    and she didn't want to be a woodcutter,
    So she'd be a witch
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  12. - Top - End - #252
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Dude, if your sister doesn't take to Gaiman, I'd suggest gving up on her now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    Well, yeah, eventually.
    But I don't really want my extremely immature fourteen year old sister reading it now, kthnx.
    She wouldn't enjoy it, and, if she could force herself to read it, I think it would scar her for life.
    However, since I'm a "nerd" and had already been exposed to such things at her age, it was a fine read by me, if a little long and dry (Anne Rice can be accused of such things, really...).

    The problem here is that my sister is intelligent (beyond most of her grade level, anyways), and yet she enjoys stupid things. She's not nerdy, she wouldn't enjoy Pratchett or Gaiman, and so even getting her to read Twilight was a victory for me.
    I've never been a fan of pandering to immaturity. I started reading adult novels at around the age of twelve (mainly Michael Moorcock).
    I don't believe in 'teen' literature. Either you're still a child, and should stick with children's books, or you have the mental maturity to read books for grown-ups.
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  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    I'm guessing I shouldn't point out that I liked making money more than going postal? Of course people have said I have bad taste before...
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  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    No, LOTR and the Chronicles of Narnia are packaged as health food but secretly are extremely bad for you. Too much thinly veiled allegory, gender-related bigotry (Susan), paternalism, social-class snobbery and racism (Calormenes and Southrons) in the diet can lead to coronary heart diseases.
    ...huh?

    I'm not sure what's wrong with "thinly veiled allegory", as it worked just fine for Animal Farm and Gulliver's Travels, and I'll usually take "thinly veiled allegory" over a book that feels the need to beat you into the head with its message repeatedly without any allegory whatsoever. The other things I find to be rather overstated.
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2009-06-03 at 12:05 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by doliest View Post
    I'm guessing I shouldn't point out that I liked making money more than going postal? Of course people have said I have bad taste before...
    You're entitled to your own opinion.
    After all, some people like Twilight.
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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    Speaking of nosedives, Children of Dune and beyond...

    Terry Pratchett, on the other hand, just gets better as he writes more. The way that experience is supposed to work.
    Well, I've been reading through Dune very very slowly. I must say, it's one of the most amazing Sci-Fiís ever.
    I've been a fan since I got the "Dune 2000" game when I was about 7 (still my fave RTS game).
    They're making a new Dune movie too which I hope comes out well.
    Anyway yeah, Frank Herbert= God amoung authors.
    I haven't read Children of Dune yet, but I saw the movie(ish) and it was very good.

    = Kiefer Sutherland kicking the crap out of Cullen for 24 hours.
    It's so true.

    I can't get the image of Edward getting Death By Stereo!'d out of my head.
    Someone has to make it!
    Last edited by Nameless; 2009-06-03 at 12:07 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    I've never been a fan of pandering to immaturity. I started reading adult novels at around the age of twelve (mainly Michael Moorcock).
    I don't believe in 'teen' literature. Either you're still a child, and should stick with children's books, or you have the mental maturity to read books for grown-ups.
    You might as well say there aren't teenagers, then. There are just kids and adults, and, by dammit, if I want to marry a thirteen year old, if she isn't still reading See Spot Run and playing with Barbie Dolls, she's ready to be an adult and I damn well can.
    Last edited by RabbitHoleLost; 2009-06-03 at 12:09 PM.

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    and she didn't want to be a woodcutter,
    So she'd be a witch
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    ...huh?

    I'm not sure what's wrong with "thinly veiled allegory", as it worked just fine for Animal Farm, and I'll take "thinly veiled allegory" over a book that feels the need to beat you into the head with its message repeatedly without any allegory whatsoever. The other things I find to be rather overstated.
    I suppose the fact that I raised the point shows how much I approve of the particular allegory.
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  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    if I want to marry a thirteen year old,
    You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
    If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    I go by the "whatever floats your boat" school of thought. I've never read the Twilight books and I don't really plan to (teen romance novels aren't my cup of tea). However, I have no problems at all with the books or the fans. Again, if someone else finds the novels enjoyable, good for them.

    One of the major arguments against the Twilight books is that it encourages "abusive relationships". Honestly, that's like arguing that reading A Clockwork Orange is going to encourage the reader to join a street gang or that reading The Sun Also Rises is going to encourage the reader to travel to Spain and get drunk during the fesitival of San Fermin. Just because one enjoys reading a book doesn't mean that they'll emulate the characters in it. Remember, the "influence" argument is the same one that opponents of violent video games use to try and restrict those.

    Another argument is that the Twilight series is bad literature and they should be reading something "better". By those lines, I suppose that they should write a letter to an English Literature departmart and restricting themselves to what the professors classify as acceptable reads. What people choose to read in their free time is only their business. The person among us who hasn't enjoyed reading escapist literature may throw the first stone here.

    Perhaps what I find most baffling is that a community that often prides itself on openness and acceptance can be so dismissive and elitist when it comes to some of the likes and dislikes of others. All of us dislike some forms of media. However, if we dislike something it doesn't mean that someone else can't like it nor does it mean we can criticize them for liking it. Personal taste is just that, personal.

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
    If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
    Hogwash, if we did that we'd be no better than the japanese! That is assuming we're still discussing non-japanese countries.
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  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by doliest View Post
    Hogwash, if we did that we'd be no better than the japanese! That is assuming we're still discussing non-japanese countries.
    You've lost me, completely and utterly.
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
    If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
    Its becoming less and less culturally acceptable as we realize the mentality that goes hand in hand with age.
    Perhaps being a teenager is a cultural phenomenon, but so is being a toddler or a middle-aged person, and there are certain things that are and aren't acceptable for that age-era.
    Toddlers are really just kids, aren't they? But there are certain things that are acceptable and some that aren't for them, just the same. You cannot give a toddler a toy with small parts, because their minds aren't ready for such things, and they're likely to eat them and possibly choke and die, or some such.
    At the same level, a young teenager may not be ready for such heavy topics, though it really depends on the teenager in question. You and I were obviously able to tackle darker concepts at a young age, but my sister would be uncomfortable and would possibly swear off reading yet again (And I've just convinced her to read The Looking Glass Wars, too v.v)


    ...To be fair, my sister was mostly uncomfortable with the last Twilight book, regarding the sex and the violent "Caesarean section".

    She couldn't be the prince, and she'd never be a princess.
    and she didn't want to be a woodcutter,
    So she'd be a witch
    and know things

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  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    ...To be fair, my sister was mostly uncomfortable with the last Twilight book, regarding the sex and the violent "Caesarean section".
    I'd be more worried about those that weren't at least a little uncomfortable with those...
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Bella: (Waking up to see Edward sitting by her bed) *Shock horror but obviously aroused*
    What are you doing here? :o

    Edward: I want more cookies GOD DAMN IT! >:I
    Last edited by Nameless; 2009-06-03 at 12:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    I'd be more worried about those that weren't at least a little uncomfortable with those...
    <<
    Oh. Right. I was...er...totally uncomfortable. I lawled so hard v.v

    @ Nameless: I love you. I love you so hard
    Last edited by RabbitHoleLost; 2009-06-03 at 12:24 PM.

    She couldn't be the prince, and she'd never be a princess.
    and she didn't want to be a woodcutter,
    So she'd be a witch
    and know things

    -- The Wee Free Men, Terry Pratchett
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    <<
    Oh. Right. I was...er...totally uncomfortable. I lawled so hard v.v
    You're, of course, the exception, dear necrophilamancer
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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    <<
    Oh. Right. I was...er...totally uncomfortable. I lawled so hard v.v

    @ Nameless: I love you. I love you so hard
    Dear Princess Celestia,


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    Default Re: Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnedIrishman View Post
    You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
    If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
    There's definitely some biology there. There are parts of the brain that don't finish maturing until the early twenties, and deficiency in those areas has real effects on behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    One of the major arguments against the Twilight books is that it encourages "abusive relationships". Honestly, that's like arguing that reading A Clockwork Orange is going to encourage the reader to join a street gang or that reading The Sun Also Rises is going to encourage the reader to travel to Spain and get drunk during the fesitival of San Fermin. Just because one enjoys reading a book doesn't mean that they'll emulate the characters in it. Remember, the "influence" argument is the same one that opponents of violent video games use to try and restrict those.
    If it weren't for the fact that a noticeable sector of the fan base rhapsodizes about the relationship in the book and wishes they were in a similar relationship, I'd agree.

    But while most literature doesn't cause the reader to imitate people in the story, I think there are exceptions. There are cases where the story can encourage people with a pre-existing tendency to follow it. For a mentally healthy person, Twilight is harmless, like any other story. But for a mentally unhealthy person, I worry that it may encourage them to do things against their own interests.

    Some people read books as escapism, but I've actually known a few people who tend to use things that happen in books as excuses for things they do in real life. And there's a limit on how high-octane the fuel I'm willing to give people like that is.

    Another argument is that the Twilight series is bad literature and they should be reading something "better". By those lines, I suppose that they should write a letter to an English Literature departmart and restricting themselves to what the professors classify as acceptable reads. What people choose to read in their free time is only their business. The person among us who hasn't enjoyed reading escapist literature may throw the first stone here.
    Agreed.

    Perhaps what I find most baffling is that a community that often prides itself on openness and acceptance can be so dismissive and elitist when it comes to some of the likes and dislikes of others. All of us dislike some forms of media. However, if we dislike something it doesn't mean that someone else can't like it nor does it mean we can criticize them for liking it. Personal taste is just that, personal.
    Agreed. It leaves me cold, but the only reason I have any real problem with it is that I'm worried about its ability to convince silly people to do even sillier things. That's not a huge thing, to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    At the same level, a young teenager may not be ready for such heavy topics, though it really depends on the teenager in question. You and I were obviously able to tackle darker concepts at a young age, but my sister would be uncomfortable and would possibly swear off reading yet again (And I've just convinced her to read The Looking Glass Wars, too v.v)
    You do realize the risk if she starts picking up John Ringo books at random after liking those, right? If dark concepts are liable to make her swear off reading, the wrong Ringo book might knock her all the way into aphasia.
    My favorite exchange:
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty
    If your idea of fun is to give the players whatever they want, then I suggest you take out a board game called: CANDY LAND and use that for your gaming sessions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Obviously, you have never known the frustration of being stranded in the Molasses Swamp.
    _______
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeavelli View Post
    Physics is a dame of culture and sophistication. She'll take you in, keep you warm at night, provide all kinds of insight into yourself and the world you never find on your own.

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