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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    I have an levle 11 Druid/10 MoMF. I want to optimize his items and feats a little, as currently, he is one of the weaker party members, although undoubtedly the most versetile.

    In any case, we have 1 million to spend, and my current equips are just over that. But if you take a look at my equipment list, I'm sure you'll find stuff that is extra. Feats are also sub-par, in my opinion, but I don't know how to fix them.

    In any case, I want high strength, dex, and con scores since my DM allows me to add the amount I have in a stat over 10 (human average) to the score I get when wildshaped. And I am focusing on wildshaped fighting, casting is nearly unimportant, especially since I can homebrew epic progression to the MoMF.

    So, here is the character sheet:
    http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetvie...sheetid=128319

    Good luck!

    Oh, and no cheese, please!

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Dump the scimitar. It does you no good since any form you shift into will have a natural attack. Replace it with a +1 [Whatever Weapon Enhancements You Want] Amulet of Natural Attacks. Buff yourself with Magic Fang and go to town with +5 Claws of Whatever. You'll want to throw out every single attack spell you've prepared. A rogue does as much damage as your spells do as a basic melee attack, so you're much better off buffing yourself instead.

    Alot of the +AC items are also sort of pointless. AC 41 is significant at level 12, but at 21 it's not even a speed bump. Anyone who wants to hit you, will. Anyone who doesn't want to hit you, won't care about your AC. At very least dump the bracers in particular, since +1 Wild [Whatever Enhancements You Want] Dragonhide Full Plate gives +13 with a magic vestment and offers no penalties for significantly less cost.

    You might want to nick Improved Grapple, Oaken Fortitude from Complete Divine, Practiced Spellcaster(Druid), Power Attack and possibly Snatch if you like to use flying forms. You can dump every feat but Improved Multiattack/Multiattack and Natural Spell to get those.
    Last edited by ZeroNumerous; 2009-05-31 at 09:28 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous View Post
    Dump the scimitar. It does you no good since any form you shift into will have a natural attack. Replace it with a +1 [Whatever Weapon Enhancements You Want] Amulet of Natural Attacks.
    What book is this from?

    Buff yourself with Magic Fang and go to town with +5 Claws of Whatever. You'll want to throw out every single attack spell you've prepared. A rogue does as much damage as your spells do as a basic melee attack, so you're much better off buffing yourself instead.
    I agree completely. Any recommended spells?

    Alot of the +AC items are also sort of pointless. AC 41 is significant at level 12, but at 21 it's not even a speed bump. Anyone who wants to hit you, will. Anyone who doesn't want to hit you, won't care about your AC. At very least dump the bracers in particular, since +1 Wild [Whatever Enhancements You Want] Dragonhide Full Plate gives +13 with a magic vestment and offers no penalties for significantly less cost.
    My DM says I need proficiency with heavy armor for that, which I don't have. Anyways, why dump the AC? AC 41 might be low, but when I add in natural armor and damage reduction from my wildshaped form, it's a nice bonus.

    You might want to nick Improved Grapple, Oaken Fortitude from Complete Divine, Practiced Spellcaster(Druid), Power Attack and possibly Snatch if you like to use flying forms. You can dump every feat but Improved Multiattack/Multiattack and Natural Spell to get those.
    Alright, except I need Endurance and Alertness for the PrC in the first place.


    Thanks, and any other recomendations?

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    ZeroNumerous's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babale View Post
    What book is this from?
    Savage Species. It might have been updated in Magic Item Compendium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babale View Post
    I agree completely. Any recommended spells?
    Obscuring Mist gives you a miss chance. Exceedingly useful defensive spell.

    Resist Energy/Protection from Energy lets you take less damage from energy attacks.

    Fog Cloud also gives you a miss chance.

    Gust of Wind stops medium-sized meleers.

    Spider Climb gives you mobility in tight corridors without having to shift out of your melee form.

    Wind Wall shuts down archers, which you will hate.

    Stone Shape is ridiculous if you're imaginative.

    Magic Fang, Greater makes all your natural attacks +5 weapons.

    Freedom of Movement makes sure you never get grappled when you don't want to be.

    Giant Vermin gives you grappling buddies.

    Death Ward makes you immune to negative energy effects and [Death] spells.

    Awaken is good to use on your animal companion then diplomance it to follow you.

    Control Wind is ridiculous if you're creative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babale View Post
    My DM says I need proficiency with heavy armor for that, which I don't have. Anyways, why dump the AC? AC 41 might be low, but when I add in natural armor and damage reduction from my wildshaped form, it's a nice bonus.
    On proficiency: You don't need it to wear it. Being non-proficient just imposes the Armor Check Penalty as a penalty to attacks. Wild melds the armor with your body and removes the Armor Check Penalty but lets it still provide it's bonuses.

    On AC dumping: Because any melee-centric monster will have +40 or higher to hit. You get a greater benefit padding your HP rather than attempting to keep up with the attack bonus scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babale View Post
    Alright, except I need Endurance and Alertness for the PrC in the first place.
    Forgot how much the pre-reqs on MoMF suck.
    Last edited by ZeroNumerous; 2009-05-31 at 11:14 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Hm... Nice...

    A couple of things:

    I decided that Assume Supernatural Ability is useless because I get Epic Wildshape next level, and that does that automatically, and upgrades all my Improved Wildshapes into Epics (DM's ruling.) Am I right?

    And why shouldn't I keep QuickChange? Free action wildshape=win, no?

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Nah, if it's an epic campaign then 21st-level spellcasters would be far more versatile let alone powerful ;)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    We don't have any pure spellcasters, except for 1 who's a lich.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babale View Post
    And why shouldn't I keep QuickChange? Free action wildshape=win, no?
    How often will you actually Wild Shape? Unlike Shapechange, it does not heal you to do so therefore there is no benefit to changing forms. The only actual benefit you get is quick-changing to a flight form but that bonus is removed by casting Air Walk.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    If you can switch/retrain your class levels, definitely do so. Switch to Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 8/ Nature's Warrior 1/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF +2/ WS +1, in that order. Your feats should be Track (R1), Combat Reflexes (H), Power Attack (1), Alertness (3), Endurance (R3), Leap Attack (6), Blindsight (9), Robilar's Gambit (12), Improved Initiative (15), Defensive Sweep (18), and Improved Elemental Wild Shape (21).

    Leap Attack is in Complete Adventurer. Blindsight is in Masters of the Wild, it grants you Blindsight 120 feet, since according to WotC's feat index there is no newer version to supersede that one. Robilar's Gambit and Defensive Sweep are in the PHB2, and Improved Elemental Wild Shape is in the DMG at the back of the Characters chapter. Use the Distracting Attack ranger variant in PH2, and all of your 1st level spell(s) prepared should be Rhino's Rush from the Spell Compendium. Your Nature's Warrior trick should be Nature's Weapon.

    Get a Belt of Magnificense +6 from the Miniatures Handbook, it grants an Enhancement bonus to all six of your ability scores for 200,000 gp. Add the properties of a Monk's Belt to it for x1.5 the cost, or 19,500 gp, and remember that it adds your Wisdom bonus to AC. Add the properties of a Belt of Hidden Pouches for x1.5 the cost, or 7,500 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 231,000 gp.

    Get a Cowl of Warding from Magic of Faerun, it takes a head spot and grants constant Freedom of Movement and Mind Blank, plus it turns six levels of spells each day as though by Spell Turning, for a cost of 200,800 gp. Add the properties of a Circlet of Mages four times (for twelve charges/day) at x1.5 the cost, or 30,000 gp, which allows you to retain a spent 1st level spell 12 times each day. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 234,800 gp.

    Get a Gemstone of Heavy Fortification from the Draconomicon, it costs 35,000 gp, and Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp. You can Wild Shape into a dragon form and permanently embed it into yourself, so you'll always be immune to critical hits and sneak attacks. Add the properties of the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone for 4,000 gp, the Iridescent Spindle Ioun Stone for 18,000 gp. Total cost is 61,000 gp.

    Get Bracers of Armor +10, which is not an epic item, for 100,000 gp. Get it enchanted with a +5 Enhancement bonus to its armor bonus for 100,000 gp. Add the properties of Armbands of Might at x1.5 for 6,150 gp, and Armbands of Elusive Action ten times (for ten charges/day) at x1.5 for 12,000 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 218,150 gp.

    Get a Shirt of the Fey for 15,000 gp, add +5 Resistance to saves for 25,000 gp, add a +5 Enhancement to natural armor for 50,000 gp. That pricing is from the Magic Item Compendium page 234. Add Armor Spikes that are +1 Valorous from Unapproachable East, which causes you to deal double damage on all attacks after a charge, at a cost of 8,350 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 102,050 gp.

    Get a Ring of Evasion for 25,000 gp, add Deflection +5 for 50,000 gp, and add the properties of a Ring of the Darkhidden at x1.5 for 3,000 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 82,000 gp.

    Total cost for all that should be 929,300 gp, leaving you 70,700 gp for whatever else you want.

    You can full attack with Unarmed Strikes and use natural weapons as secondary attacks, or full attack with natural weapons as desired. You can take the form of a 12-headed Cryo- or Pyrohydra, which with Robilar's Gambit will give you a 12-bite AoO every time you're attacked, plus you'll have Fast Healing 22 in either form and you'll get their breath attacks. You can take the form of any creature up to 16 HD that has an elemental subtype, and gain all of its supernatural and extraordinary special attacks and qualities. Warshaper allows you to change forms at will without using up one of your daily Wild Shapes. Note that the Complete Adventurer Errata adds your Master of Many Forms levels to your maximum Wild Shape hit dice. Your next epic feat should be Spellcasting Harrier. Good combat forms to take include War Troll (MM3), Cave Troll (MM3), and 12-headed Hydras. At the end of each day switch into an Immoth (MM2) and make Ice Runes of all your remaining Rhino's Rush spells, which if you didn't use any should be at least 13 considering your Circlet of Mages charges. Ice Runes last forever regardless of your form, so even if you're out of Rhino's Rushes you'll still probably have some of those saved up.

    With Armbands of Might you can Power Attack for -2 to hit and get +4 damage, which is increased to +8 when Leap Attacking which is not given as a multiplier, so the increased damage is doubled to +16 when charging due to the Valorous enchantment, or tripled with Rhino's Rush (doubled again) for +24. It doesn't look like much, but when a 12-headed hydra's full attack goes from 36d10+360 to 36d10+648 that tripled +8 for Power Attack on twelve attacks really starts to show. Plus you'll get another twelve bites like that every time you're attacked using Robilar's Gambit.

    In War Troll form you'll get its DR, Regeneration, and SR, and remember that whenever you heal HP damage, such as from Fast Healing, you heal an equal amount of nonlethal damage, such as from Regeneration. Note that when Regeneration converts damage into nonlethal damage, it stays as nonlethal damage regardless of your form, so you can switch into hydra form and fast heal both your regular damage and your nonlethal damage at the same time. Also remember Warshaper grants you fast healing, which is in addition to what you get back from Regeneration.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    If you can get your AC stupid high, it's worth it. Otherwise, take elusive target, and call it a day. (Comp Warrior)

    For purposes of this, assume your opponent can reliably hit an AC that's equal to your level x3.

    So, 63. That means, you'll want an AC around 80, to be considered decently armored.

    And yes, that's an attainable number.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
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    If you can switch/retrain your class levels, definitely do so. Switch to Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 8/ Nature's Warrior 1/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF +2/ WS +1, in that order. Your feats should be Track (R1), Combat Reflexes (H), Power Attack (1), Alertness (3), Endurance (R3), Leap Attack (6), Blindsight (9), Robilar's Gambit (12), Improved Initiative (15), Defensive Sweep (18), and Improved Elemental Wild Shape (21).

    Leap Attack is in Complete Adventurer. Blindsight is in Masters of the Wild, it grants you Blindsight 120 feet, since according to WotC's feat index there is no newer version to supersede that one. Robilar's Gambit and Defensive Sweep are in the PHB2, and Improved Elemental Wild Shape is in the DMG at the back of the Characters chapter. Use the Distracting Attack ranger variant in PH2, and all of your 1st level spell(s) prepared should be Rhino's Rush from the Spell Compendium. Your Nature's Warrior trick should be Nature's Weapon.

    Get a Belt of Magnificense +6 from the Miniatures Handbook, it grants an Enhancement bonus to all six of your ability scores for 200,000 gp. Add the properties of a Monk's Belt to it for x1.5 the cost, or 19,500 gp, and remember that it adds your Wisdom bonus to AC. Add the properties of a Belt of Hidden Pouches for x1.5 the cost, or 7,500 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 231,000 gp.

    Get a Cowl of Warding from Magic of Faerun, it takes a head spot and grants constant Freedom of Movement and Mind Blank, plus it turns six levels of spells each day as though by Spell Turning, for a cost of 200,800 gp. Add the properties of a Circlet of Mages four times (for twelve charges/day) at x1.5 the cost, or 30,000 gp, which allows you to retain a spent 1st level spell 12 times each day. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 234,800 gp.

    Get a Gemstone of Heavy Fortification from the Draconomicon, it costs 35,000 gp, and Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp. You can Wild Shape into a dragon form and permanently embed it into yourself, so you'll always be immune to critical hits and sneak attacks. Add the properties of the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone for 4,000 gp, the Iridescent Spindle Ioun Stone for 18,000 gp. Total cost is 61,000 gp.

    Get Bracers of Armor +10, which is not an epic item, for 100,000 gp. Get it enchanted with a +5 Enhancement bonus to its armor bonus for 100,000 gp. Add the properties of Armbands of Might at x1.5 for 6,150 gp, and Armbands of Elusive Action ten times (for ten charges/day) at x1.5 for 12,000 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 218,150 gp.

    Get a Shirt of the Fey for 15,000 gp, add +5 Resistance to saves for 25,000 gp, add a +5 Enhancement to natural armor for 50,000 gp. That pricing is from the Magic Item Compendium page 234. Add Armor Spikes that are +1 Valorous from Unapproachable East, which causes you to deal double damage on all attacks after a charge, at a cost of 8,350 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 102,050 gp.

    Get a Ring of Evasion for 25,000 gp, add Deflection +5 for 50,000 gp, and add the properties of a Ring of the Darkhidden at x1.5 for 3,000 gp. Wilding Clasp it for 4,000 gp, for a total cost of 82,000 gp.

    Total cost for all that should be 929,300 gp, leaving you 70,700 gp for whatever else you want.

    You can full attack with Unarmed Strikes and use natural weapons as secondary attacks, or full attack with natural weapons as desired. You can take the form of a 12-headed Cryo- or Pyrohydra, which with Robilar's Gambit will give you a 12-bite AoO every time you're attacked, plus you'll have Fast Healing 22 in either form and you'll get their breath attacks. You can take the form of any creature up to 16 HD that has an elemental subtype, and gain all of its supernatural and extraordinary special attacks and qualities. Warshaper allows you to change forms at will without using up one of your daily Wild Shapes. Note that the Complete Adventurer Errata adds your Master of Many Forms levels to your maximum Wild Shape hit dice. Your next epic feat should be Spellcasting Harrier. Good combat forms to take include War Troll (MM3), Cave Troll (MM3), and 12-headed Hydras. At the end of each day switch into an Immoth (MM2) and make Ice Runes of all your remaining Rhino's Rush spells, which if you didn't use any should be at least 13 considering your Circlet of Mages charges. Ice Runes last forever regardless of your form, so even if you're out of Rhino's Rushes you'll still probably have some of those saved up.

    With Armbands of Might you can Power Attack for -2 to hit and get +4 damage, which is increased to +8 when Leap Attacking which is not given as a multiplier, so the increased damage is doubled to +16 when charging due to the Valorous enchantment, or tripled with Rhino's Rush (doubled again) for +24. It doesn't look like much, but when a 12-headed hydra's full attack goes from 36d10+360 to 36d10+648 that tripled +8 for Power Attack on twelve attacks really starts to show. Plus you'll get another twelve bites like that every time you're attacked using Robilar's Gambit.

    In War Troll form you'll get its DR, Regeneration, and SR, and remember that whenever you heal HP damage, such as from Fast Healing, you heal an equal amount of nonlethal damage, such as from Regeneration. Note that when Regeneration converts damage into nonlethal damage, it stays as nonlethal damage regardless of your form, so you can switch into hydra form and fast heal both your regular damage and your nonlethal damage at the same time. Also remember Warshaper grants you fast healing, which is in addition to what you get back from Regeneration.
    I won't be switching classes due to both flavor and cheese reasons. However, I apreciate the advice on items and feats, and will most likely use at least part of that.

    Talic:

    I agree. My overall plan is to get at least 70 AC, at which point natural armor and DR from my forms will take over.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    How about a Wildshape Amulet? From...Savage Species, if I remember right. Don't have my books on me to check. Can't go wrong with +4 effective wildshape level.
    My characters:
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    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help Optimize a MoMF's Items and Feats!

    No more tips?

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