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2009-06-01, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Look, you're an evocation wizard with access to a master of teleportation, a powerful necromancer, and an archmage-sorcerer combo whose specialty was being able to cast everything without needing to prepare it. The fiends specifically said the splice replenished spells slots not spells. This is in line with how the rules work for normal rest, meaning prepare new spells (even if you pick the same spells as the day before, you are still preparing new spells). There is absolutely no need what so ever for V to have prepared a single utility spell while spliced since Jephton can cover it all freeing Vs spell slots for Evocation spells for maximum power. Maximum. Power. This was Vs line of thinking, its consistent with everything we know and see. This "hole" only appears if you didn't catch what was written and/or don't know how socerers/wizards work.
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2009-06-01, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
About the MitD...
commentary spoilers from WaXPs:
SpoilerRich has said that he isn't going to reveal what the MitD is until near the end of the strip. So unless he lets the MitD out of the box, and we don't get to see what it is, I wouldn't exactly count on the MitD getting out anytime soon.Last edited by Porthos; 2009-06-01 at 10:54 PM.
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2009-06-01, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I've always wondered if that is meant to be up to the DM to decide or not. I suspect that the D&D designers expected that the players would have to defeat the lich before seeking out it's phylactory. However, the rules do say that the phylactory contains the life force of the lich so could be assumed that the soul of the lich is always there and that the body is remote controlled from it.
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2009-06-01, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It's fairly clear that, in this comic, his soul is in his body at all times. While I can't guarantee it (only The Giant can), the circumstantial evidence (his soul speaking from his Phylactery only when he lost his body despite the fact it would be really useful in other situations his body was alive) seems to point towards the Phylactery being a new resting place for his soul after his body is crushed.
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2009-06-01, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It might be up to the DM, yes. However in this case...
Start of Darkness spoilers:
SpoilerXykon states that his soul isn't in the phylactery when it is threatened at one point. It is still up in the air whether or not Xykon could make a new one. But it would appear that Xykon wouldn't be acting the way he is if he could make a new one so easily.
Thus when the phylactery goes away, Xykon is just one bad day away from Final Death.Last edited by Porthos; 2009-06-01 at 10:58 PM.
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2009-06-01, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
You sat in the theater and screamed that Star Trek sucked because warp drives are impossible, didn't you?
Here's the explanation: The rules, while very similar to D&D 3.5 edition, aren't completely the same. We in fact know this is the case, as we have seen other differences before (you are also labeling these "plot holes"). Except, if there is a difference between how you say they work, and how the author says things work, guess who wins?
SCRUBBED.
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2009-06-01, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Man, that whole "sound in space" thing really made it hard for me to enjoy Star Wars.
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2009-06-01, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Denton, TX
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Wow, what a bunch of crying over a web comic! Don't you folks get it? Enjoy the story, take it with a grain of sand, laugh a little, and move on!
The way some of you argue about minute details like they are a matter of life or death make you sound as pathetic as they made some Star Trek fans sound when Shatner was on SNL.
"What was the combination of the safe in episode <blah blah blah>?"
Seriously, does every single detail have to be dissected so much? Were any of the legs on the roaches too short? Did the MitD have one too many yellow pixels for eyes? Were the wound marks on V just a hair shorter from one frame to the next, with no explanation? ARGH!
I used to really enjoy some of the good points folks would make about cute facets I may have missed, or references I may not have gotten. I've enjoyed many a spoiler. But this constant nit-picking over supposed flaws that some readers just can't let go of gets to be too much.
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2009-06-01, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
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2009-06-01, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Final panel was epic. I literally lol'ed.
I have been thinking for a while that Xykon's phylactery might get thrown into the Snarl. Never predicted Blackwing though. lol
Oooo. I just thought of something...
SpoilerWhat if the Snarl is able to get control of Xykon's soul after destroying the phylactery and use it to control Xykon? That would be pretty insane.
Edit: Oh, I guess this is unlikely since others have pointed out that Xykon's soul stays out of the phylactery except when his body is destroyed. But that gives me another idea: what if the Snarl holds onto the phylactery instead of destroying it, and next time Xykon bites the dust, he gets regenerated next to the Snarl and it takes control of him. Still pretty unlikely I guess, but it would be pretty crazy.
Last edited by fruityjanitor; 2009-06-01 at 11:08 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Even if it is possible to make a new Phylactery (rulebooks disagree) it still takes a week of work and a large amount of gold, not to mention the time spent putting abjurations on it to protect it. Though considering they captured a huge city and he has the biggest army for a few hundred miles and a cloister effect up, it's unlikely he would be killed while working on the Phylactery; scry and die wouldn't exactly work again (and by "work" I mean "teleport in and start attacking" and not "teleport in and successfully defeat Xykon" because we know how that turned out) since nobody has epic teleports at this point.
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2009-06-01, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Xykon's plot armour
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2009-06-01, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Xykon's plot armour
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2009-06-01, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
This makes no sense. A blank spell slot is a blank spell slot, they don't "remember" what spells you had in them before. You can't claim that he would have had to "look over his spells" to get new ones because, logically, he still would have had to do that to get his previous set of spells. The splice magically filled up all of his slots, there's nothing in the rules that says anything about this because this simply doesn't exist otherwise. If the splice can replenish his previously prepared spells, spells he already has written down in his spell book, then the splice can just as easily replenish ANY OTHER spell he has written down in his spell book.
The splice obviously removed the "sitting down and study your book" requirement of replenishing spells. However, I have confidence that V knows what his spells do well enough without having to study his spell book for hours. He could easily decide to fill his spell slots with spells he's sure will be useful without spending an hour thinking about it.
There's no plot hole. You're being upset for the sake of being upset.
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2009-06-01, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
The existence of rationales does not mean a story is without plot holes. With that mindset then things like the Star Wars and the Star Trek series would have perfect consistency, and the die-hard fans themselves would admit this isn't so. Even one of the more popular plot holes; how did people know about Rosebud in Citizen Kane when the guy died alone, has a perfectly reasonable rationale; the man had a nurse so he might've been medically monitored or even recorded.
For now V should have a flight spell since that's what the Fiends promised. Maybe later Rich will explain why V is magically depleted (perhaps the loss of the splices drained V's mental fortitude?) then assuming the explanation makes sense this won't be a plot hole, but for now I'm afraid it is. If it'll appease anyone though, I do believe it's a minor one.Last edited by WarriorTribble; 2009-06-01 at 11:22 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure what's more amusing. JeptCloak's ire over Rich Burlew's comic, or everyone else's ire over JeptCloak.
The real plot hole we should be looking into is, where did that tower COME from?
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2009-06-01, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
The way that I read the Monster Manual ("a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force.") has always meant: destroy said phylactery, no more lich. So what if he said his soul wasn't there? That could easily be a lie.
Last edited by Ghostwheel; 2009-06-01 at 11:20 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Prediction:
Blackwing succeeds in dropping the phylactery into the rift, Xykon kills O-chul, soul binds him, animates his corpse, then subdues the fleet and has O-Chul's zombie slaughter countless azurites while his soul watches.
Xykon also does more or less the same for VLast edited by Zombie Nixon; 2009-06-01 at 11:26 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
"The rejuvinating effects of the Soul Splice will allow you to start with all spell slots fully replenished."
That's what was promised, I can't speak for others, but I read that as the effect being like V sitting down to prepare all h** new spells. Maybe it does just restore the spells V previously had, but there's no evidence either way. If it is the first way, then it's well within V's character to not think h** ongoing flight spell would be dispelled."They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2009-06-01, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2009-06-01, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
The fact that his soul has been there only when his body was destroyed means nothing to you? The fact that (in branch books) there are rules about making a new Phylactery is also a bit of a dent in your theory. (50k gp and a week of work, I think. Or it might have been 5k gp.)
Face it, the only info we have here is that the game is homebrew and anything goes, and that Xykon has only ever had his soul speak through his phylactery when his body was totally destroyed. I'm placing my bets on "phylactery only hides his soul when his body is destroyed."Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-06-01 at 11:31 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I fear this may be the end for V ...
At least Xykon was funny.
What would your fellow paladins say if they saw you picking pockets to make ends meet? You know, if I hadn't murdered them.
Last edited by FoE; 2009-06-01 at 11:30 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I always balk at 'creating black holes.' They're not all that mysterious. We know they can't be spontaneously created any more than ice cream sundaes can be spontaneously created.
The difference here is that the source material is also fiction, and thus it's not a huge deal if the details get muddled.
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2009-06-01, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Ok, I didn't want to wade thru 8 pages, so if someone bought this up already, I apoligize in advance, but if V sends hir familiar into the rift, won't that damage V? Losing a familiar results in permanent loss of con and Hp if I remember correctly.
Thank you Ceika for the avatar
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2009-06-01, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-01, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It would seem that Rich's logic is you have to destroy the Lich and the Phylactery. Which makes sense to me and it is an area that is up for DM interpretation.
The next thing is that it is already established that the Phylactery doesn't hold Xykon unless his body is destroyed first.
In an earlier thread it was figured out that it would take about 4 months to rebuild the Phylactery and cost an enormous amount of money. From the way Xykon is acting - peeved but not frantic - he probably can rebuild it, but he may not have the money right now and he certainly doesn't want to have his soul's hidey hole taken away, making him vulnerable to permanent death by the next lot of heroes who decide to jump him, maybe tomorrow or next Friday.
O-Chul is under the idea that destroying the Phylactery will destroy Xykon, not just inconvenience him.
So, who is correct? I think we'll find out in the next two or three pages.
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2009-06-01, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It's always been there.
Seems Xykon grew it after Cloister.Last edited by wzeller; 2009-06-01 at 11:39 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
A valiant effort, my friend, but one that will fall on deaf ears. I try to do actual analysis all the time and it's just shouting in the darkness. But any rules question is met with swarms of responses. I agree that people should just enjoy the ride, but momentum is in the opposite direction here.
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2009-06-01, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I am guessing the Phyalctery will get destroyed...or lost (would I rule out V/Ochul dropping it and with a bit of Deus Ex Machina, it falls into the hand of Thanh or someone?)
I can't see end of phylactery= end of Xykon. If anyone is going to kill Xykon, it would most likely be Roy, not V.
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2009-06-01, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread