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2009-06-01, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Well, that's what the debate seems to be about. I mean, I don't know D&D very well at all, but from the viewpoint of someone who knows literature, it would make no sense to kill Xykon here and now- but in terms of plot progression, it does make sense for the phylactery to be destroyed and Xykon is now 'living on the edge'.
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2009-06-01, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
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2009-06-01, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-01, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with all your complaints? do you think you're helping Rich become a better writer and prevent more plot holes? (in my opinion theres none) because basically all you're becoming is an annoyance to most of the people here who actually enjoy this comic, seriously, if you don't like how the story develops, then please go watch something else you would like, you're taking a webcomic way too serious, and your comments are just making more and more people ignore you from now on.
So, what's the point?
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2009-06-01, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Possibly absurd alternate alternate theory--are magic-users automatically aware of what spells they have prepped? Is it possible that V has simply forgotten abut the spell slot refresh? Could this be a "Wait a minute, I had a 22" moment for V?
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2009-06-01, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
fft fft fft fft fft fft fft fft fft...
~rawr...
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2009-06-01, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html
On a lighter side, proof that V is no stranger to plotholes
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2009-06-01, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
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2009-06-01, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Waaaiit a minute.
What's wrong with taking V's word for it?
If V says it, and it's not impossible or outlandishly improbable, why should we question it?
Think of it this way. O-Chul and V just survived that last Meteor Storm that Xykon threw at them. Is this a plot hole? It would be if their surviving it was impossible or, again, outlandishly improbable. However, if we can come up with reasonable explanations... Xykon rolled low, they rolled high, the healing potions were more effective than we at first thought, etc., then it's not a plot hole. And the comic doesn't have to explain this! As long as there's some reasonable explanation for them surviving, then there's absolutely no reason for us not to accept the fact that they DID survive it, as evidence that one such reasonable explanation is in effect.
It's necessary for the comic (or any of the people here) to come up with an irrefutable proof for the exact chain of events leading to V saying that she has no flight spells left. A single reasonable explanation—even a fairly unlikely one!—is quite sufficient.
On the flip side, for all that JeptCloak is being chastised for being a reactionary, he's managed to debate this more calmly than most of the people who are attacking him.
Well except for the Lame Trek crack.
(<3 Star Trek)
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2009-06-01, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
My vote is female.
Snap.
Xykon can't lose this easily. He has to live up to his BBEG/Recurring villain status. Being a combination of the two means he's got some serious plot armor - which he has apparently not relied on yet.
Also he's the wittiest of all characters combined.Last edited by imp_fireball; 2009-06-01 at 11:49 PM.
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2009-06-01, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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2009-06-01, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
This is certainly an interesting turn of events. I really hope that V's familiar will help out with O-chul's plan. Or that V has a Bull's Strength or Cat's Grace spell prepared. Both should help with that thrown object problem.
Thanks to Ceika for my avatar of Tobimaro.
Ponytaur by the awesome Dirtytabs.Thanks!
My Dragons need your help. Please?
I now have a blog. Check it out!
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2009-06-01, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
This is one of "is it a game or reality" things. Even if V the wizard should know what spells are available, V's player might easily forget in the heat of the game that spells had been refreshed. (This is particularly true if the fairly intelligent V were being role-played by a less-intelligent player. It's hard to play an 18-INT character with a 13-INT brain )
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2009-06-01, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Rifting the phylactery neatly solves the problem that this story arc simply canNOT end with Xykon's destruction, yet SOMETHING has to happen to change the dynamics between the Heroes and the Big Bad (...otherwise, you don't have plot ... and OOTS knows plot!) Making Xykon suddenly vulnerable to the Real Death is especially significant after his explaining-motivation speech in the last 2 panels of 652.
To take your analysis one step farther, Redcloak ...
Spoiler...has good reason to think Xykon won't go along with Redcloak's Ultimate Plan. Therefore, will the Order help Redcloak backstab Xykon at the key point?
This would be an easier sell if the Order were somehow to appreciate the fundamental justice of Redcloak's plan to set up a goblin society, free from being mere XPs for humanoids. Establishing that growing realization would be a huge plot meta-arc. So far, O-Chul is the only member of the order to reach across racial lines (with MiTD).
At any rate, unless the Giant has decided to call it quits by next Friday, Operation Rift Toss can be only a partial success ... still massively heroic of course.
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2009-06-01, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I like this view on things.
Haha, well...I think Rich might be trying to talk about D&D through this almost. The same way Miko was a represenation of ridiculous Paladins, V in this state could be that of people who play with high-level characters straight off, with no idea how to play them.
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2009-06-01, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
If you like my thoughts, you'll love my writing. Visit me at www.mishahandman.com.
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2009-06-02, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
For what you're saying to be true, we need a scene where V gets the splice, then sits around for an hour while perusing his spellbook. The splice was merely a torrent of energy with three souls attached that revitalized V. There's no indication that it also gave him the opportunity to somehow speed through an hour worth of study to prepare new spells.
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2009-06-02, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2009-06-02, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, there is. The indication that you're looking for is V just said he was out of Fly spells. This is all the explanation that is needed for us to say, "Oh, I guess it didn't work that way."
If the scene works with Explanation A but does not work with Explanation B, then guess what? Explanation A is valid until proven otherwise.
All anyone needs to do is stop looking for an excuse to criticize the author's skill.
EDIT: Plus, V was offscreen for some time between popping out from the Azure City fleet and Haley entering her room. He may have chosen to re-cast his Fly spell at that point for whatever reason. There are multiple possibilities, none of which are explicitly forbidden by the rules. Especially since the main effect, the Soul Splice, was invented by the author to act however he found convenient.Last edited by SPoD; 2009-06-02 at 12:16 AM.
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2009-06-02, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
The ironic thing is that if it wasn't being advanced only as part of an overall "Vaarsuvius was robbed of his/her rightful victory over everything" grudge, I would find "Vaarsuvius didn't take any time to study or even apparently think about which spells to prepare, so the splice probably gave him/her back the exact same spells s/he had prepared that morning" a very interesting and compelling point.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2009-06-02, 12:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Do you enjoy every single pice of entertainment out there? You nver had reasons for not liking something only for others to think you're just being nitpicky or a killjoy? If the answer to either is no, then what right do you have for telling people to just shut up and like something?While V... wasn't himself these past few strips I like to think he still had enough foresight to prepare a flight spell while stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere (where a simple wave could kill him). I mean imo that's on par with a lich guarding his Phylatery.
Last edited by WarriorTribble; 2009-06-02 at 12:13 AM.
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2009-06-02, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
so...well Blackwing help with throwing the thingy or will he carry it? Actually...do we even know the gender of Blackwing? It's annoying enough to not know the gender of Vaarsuvius
SpoilerProud Activist of The Goblinoid Sub-Type
Originally Posted by The TygreOriginally Posted by RowsenOriginally Posted by Sir Dar
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2009-06-02, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Understood. I don't have any knowledge from those other books. I was just relating my experience with the game as I have played and ran it.
While the Giant is showing a home brew world, we all have our own expectations and pre-conceptions about the rules that the world of OotS follows. I don't get bent out of shape if Rick's rules are different than mine. I just love the story that he is telling.
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2009-06-02, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Destroying the phylactery would mean that Xykon is mortal and easily (relatively) destroyed until he can create a new one.
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2009-06-02, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-02, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
So the question becomes: What is the average airspeed of an unladen schrodinger's familiar?
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2009-06-02, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
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2009-06-02, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
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2009-06-02, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Aside from alertness, is there any possibility Blackwing grants accuracy or something like that?
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2009-06-02, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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