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    Default The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    I just wanted to make the sorcerer/wizard build useable so i created this prc

    Spontanious preparer
    Prerequisites
    Ability to cast 2d level spells without preperation
    Ability to prepare 2d level spells
    knowledge (arcane) 10 ranks
    Spellcraft 10 ranks
    Spell mastery

    class stats
    HD: d4
    class skills: (not listed in alfabetic order) Spot, listen, knowledge (all), Spellcraft, concentration, sense motive, diplomacy and bluff
    Skills: 2 + int mod
    {table][tr][td]lvl[/td][td]bab[/td][td]Ref + Fort[/td][td]Will[/td][td]special[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]+0[/td][td]+0[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+0[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]7[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]8[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+6[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]9[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+6[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][tr][td]10[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+7[/td][td]+1 caster level in both preparing and spontanious spellcasting class[/td][/tr][/table]

    the +1 caster levels must be put into two different classes and they must ve the ones used to qualify for this prc. This also results in more spells known and spells per day
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    hm...I suppose it might work, clearly the one's it's really meant to appeal to are the sorcerer/wizard combos, and maybe fellas like warmage/wizard. I could possibly see a bard taking this, but not likely.

    The prerequisites and skills are a little odd. Why toughness? and what exactly makes this class aligned with chaos?

    course, you'll have to be 11th level to use it at all, so that's an impressive investment of prerequisites right there.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    well toughness was something that i just thought that it would be nice, i can remove it and the chaos part was because i think being able to cast both prepared and spontanious spells is pretty chaotic

    edit: and i don't see how you have to be 11th level
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by gijsstrider
    edit: and i don't see how you have to be 11th level
    I think the calculation was thus:
    3rd level prepared spells - 5th level Wizard
    3rd level spontaieous spells - 6th level Sorceror
    Total: 11 levels

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    oops, meant 2nd level spells
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    a more appropraite feat prereq might be the 'spell preparation' feat. Let's the sorcerer or bard prepare a spell so they can metamagic it without penalty.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    out of which source does it come?
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)b

    believe it's in complete arcane, but that's probably not the first place it popped up.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    So... they have twice the spells?

    maybe a little bit unbalanced, but maybe not.

    Only if they abuse the already abusable persistent spell, quick spell and others to make use of several spells at a time

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomada
    So... they have twice the spells?

    maybe a little bit unbalanced, but maybe not.

    Only if they abuse the already abusable persistent spell, quick spell and others to make use of several spells at a time
    it's probably not more unbalance than the mystic theurge

    edit: and i want it to be usable with people who only have the core rulebooks
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by gijsstrider
    it's probably not more unbalance than the mystic theurge

    edit: and i want it to be usable with people who only have the core rulebooks
    The class itself is not the problem. But it expands the albuses that already are in place.

    Think of all those muchkins out there that already muchkin out the wizard/sorcerer, and think they doing it with both... at the same time.


    Now, a class that gives both Psionic and arcane/divine spellcasting... THAT would be HORRIBLY... WRONG!

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomada
    Now, a class that gives both Psionic and arcane/divine spellcasting... THAT would be HORRIBLY... WRONG!
    Uh, you mean the Cerebremancer (Psionic + Arcane)? * It's right there in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomada
    Now, a class that gives both Psionic and arcane/divine spellcasting... THAT would be HORRIBLY... WRONG!
    You mean the Cerebremancer? What's so wrong about that? Or do you have the same complaint about Mystic Theurge?
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Given that the Cleric has turning, better HP and BAB this might signal that Divine spells are worth less than Sorcerer spells...so this PrC might seem a little too much.

    Maybe you get 8 sorcerer and 8 wizard levels spread out over the 10 level series

    +1 sorcerer and wizard
    +1 sorcerer or wizard
    +1 sorcerer and wizard
    +1 to class not selected at level 2
    +1 sorcerer and wizard
    +1 sorcerer and wizard
    +1 sorcerer or wizard
    +1 sorcerer and wizard
    +1 to class not selected at level 7
    +1 sorcerer and wizard


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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    And how could a wizard sorcerer be counted as munchkiny before? I mean I know they get a ton of selection of low level arcane spells, but D+D isn't the sort of game where it's that profitable to focus on your low level spells to the exclusion of your higher level ones. Unless there is some strategy I'm missing.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider
    Uh, you mean the Cerebremancer (Psionic + Arcane)? It's right there in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
    Quote Originally Posted by douglas
    You mean the Cerebremancer? What's so wrong about that? Or do you have the same complaint about Mystic Theurge?
    Yep, psionics in general are wrong, wrong wrong.

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    I think you may want to include the word "arcane" in front of your spell requirements. I could take 1 level of sorceror, and 5 levels of druid. meet the skill requirements, and be able to cast 2nd level spells prepared(druid) and spontaneous (summon animal) then go apply the bonus casting to sorc and druid, or cleric and sorc, or cleric and druid. faster access to arcane heirophant (without counting towards animal companions)
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanosect
    I could take 1 level of sorceror, and 5 levels of druid. meet the skill requirements, and be able to cast 2nd level spells prepared(druid) and spontaneous (summon animal)...
    That's a good point there. Of course, the usual phrasing is "ability to cast X spells without preparation." I think that is supposed to eliminate the above situation because the druid still has to prepare some other spell before he or she can spontaneously summon.

    So perhaps the requirements should be:
    "Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells without preparation.
    Ability to prepare 2nd level arcane spells from a spellbook."

    As a pretty standard "Beefed Up Multiclass" PrC I do not see the need for either the Chaotic alignment or the contact with an outsider requirements. And the Toughness feat doesn't seem to be necessary for the concept either.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Nice idea but I don't see it being too useful as a primary caster in a party. Mystic Theurge gets access to divine and arcane, which I see as more useful than having a poopton of arcane spells for a secondary caster. But in a party with a pure divine caster and another character who can act as a secondary divine, this could be a useful character.

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    the thing, here, is that he could use a lot of metamagic feats (he has a LOT of spell slots, afterall).

    and could abuse persistant, quick and other metamagics.

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    will remove the toughness/chaotic part then. know the planes won't work anymore than either so lemme think *picks phb* how about spell mastery as a prereq? and i'll make the know arcane 10
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by gijsstrider
    how about spell mastery as a prereq?
    Sounds good to me.

    and i'll make the know arcane 10
    Make sense. Minimum start is level seven anyway.

    As for other skills to replace Knowledge (the planes), how about Spellcraft?
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    yeah, that's nice
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider
    Uh, you mean the Cerebremancer (Psionic + Arcane)? It's right there in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
    Quote Originally Posted by douglas
    You mean the Cerebremancer? *What's so wrong about that? *Or do you have the same complaint about Mystic Theurge?
    i think he meant a class with arcane + divine + psionics
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomada
    the thing, here, is that he could use a lot of metamagic feats (he has a LOT of spell slots, afterall).

    and could abuse persistant, quick and other metamagics.

    How so? I don't know that he'd have any more spell slots than a sorcerer/divine spellcaster.

    And how would he abuse them?
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    i think he meant a class with arcane + divine + psionics
    Egads, I hope no one ever creates such a thing. It would just be wrong. Not that the truly powergamey would use it, though - see below.

    Regarding the hypothetical brokenness of the OPs class, I think it's not. Actually I think that aside from cool flavor it's not strong. What you get is lots of spells per day, and a good combination of flexibility on-the-fly with flexibility in situations where you can plan ahead. However, you're still limited to arcane only. In contrast, Mystic Theurge gets access to both arcane and divine magic.

    Many people's initial reaction to the MT is that it must be horribly broken, since it gives you two full spell progressions at once. However you will be behind in caster level, and you run into serious MAD. Furthermore, you can still only cast one spell at a time, no matter how many you have per day.

    I, too, am curious as to how this class could abuse Persistant spell/Quicken etc any more than a normal caster.
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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    he'd have almost twice as many spell slots at any given time. that's how.

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    Default Re: The spontanious preparer (prc, PEACH)

    Yes, but none of those metamagics are really worth a higher slot. Chances are, a spell from the next level is better. The only time metamagics really become useful is when you can take the Automatics, at epic. By which point it's all gone to hell with broken-ness anyhow.

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