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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Alright, having evoked the name of the divine fruit in the title, I welcome you to my attempt at creating a prestige class. :)

    A little bit of explanation for the prestige class before I launch into the actual aspects of the class. I'm about to take part in a homebrew campaign with a new group (yays), and part of my character's backstory is that he's a member of a tribal society, based mostly on the Tauren from Warcraft. Part of the race's belief system is centered around a person known as the Chosen One, who is born again and again to lead his people, dies, and is reincarnated with little or no memory of his past lives. Thus, each time the Chosen One dies, the tribal minotaurs (my term for them to avoid the copyright fairies) search for a new Chosen One to lead them. Through a series of trials and tests, they winnow through the candidates and find the new Chosen One.

    As you might expect, my character happens to be one of those who might be the Chosen One. ;) Anyway, I looked through the D20 source material available on the D20srd looking for a prestige class that exemplifies the idea of a holy protector and warrior. And yes, I think one of the first things people will tell me is multi-class to Paladin... or I should be a Paladin from the get go. I'd agree, but my Cleric is the group's only source of healing at the moment, so instead what I looked for was a class that would allow continued level advancement while also increasing my combat effectiveness a bit, as I'm also one of the group's two primary tanks. (The rest of the party is a fighter or ranger, a rogue, a mage and a bard. So as one of the only two possibly heavy armor wearers, I'm going to be in the front a lot.)

    However, looking through the SRD, there are only three prestige classes for clerics, and none for paladins. The Hierophant is obviously meant for clerics or druids, but you have to be level 13 to get into it, and it doesn't really fit my character. The Mystic Theurge is meant for mage/cleric characters so they can cast spells as level 15 mages/clerics rather then level 10 mages/clerics. The Loremaster is technically possible for a cleric, but looks to be more mage-based, and again, doesn't fit the character concept I'm trying to fill.

    So here's my attempt to mix together the abilities. My goal was to make a class that mixes some of the features of fighters, paladins and clerics together to make an effective prestige class that isn't horribly overpowered. Please tell me what you think of it.

    [hr]

    Chosen of the Tribes

    A holy warrior who comes but once a generation, rising again and again throughout the history of the Tribes to lead the People. *Each generation, the Tribes search for the Chosen, who is reincarnated without the knowledge of his past lives. Through a grueling series of trials, those who aspire for the position are separated from the true Chosen, until at last he stands alone.

    Prerequisites:

    BAB: +5
    Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 8 ranks, Heal: 4 ranks
    Must be able to cast divine spells
    Alignment: Must be any Good

    Must pass the Trials to become a Chosen (requires DMís aid, anywhere from one to eight trials, testing the aspirantís faith, martial skills, wisdom and empathy)

    Hit Die: d8

    Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (int)

    {table]
    [tr]
    [td]Level[/td]
    [td]Base Attack[/td]
    [td]Fort[/td]
    [td]Ref[/td]
    [td]Will[/td]
    [td]Special[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    1
    [/td]
    [td]
    +0
    [/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td]+0[/td]
    [td]+0[/td]
    [td]Smite Evil 1/day[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    2
    [/td]
    [td]
    +1
    [/td]
    [td]+3[/td]
    [td]+0[/td]
    [td]+0[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class, Sight of the Ancients[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    3
    [/td]
    [td]
    +2
    [/td]
    [td]+3[/td]
    [td]+1[/td]
    [td]+1[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class, Divine Grace[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    4
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]+4[/td]
    [td]+1[/td]
    [td]+1[/td]
    [td]Aura of Courage[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    5
    [/td]
    [td]
    +3
    [/td]
    [td]+4[/td]
    [td]+1[/td]
    [td]+1[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class, Smite Evil 2/day[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    6
    [/td]
    [td]
    +4
    [/td]
    [td]+5[/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    7
    [/td]
    [td]
    +5
    [/td]
    [td]+5[/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    8
    [/td]
    [td]
    +6
    [/td]
    [td]+6[/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td]+2[/td]
    [td][/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    9
    [/td]
    [td]
    +6
    [/td]
    [td]+6[/td]
    [td]+3[/td]
    [td]+3[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class[/td]
    [/tr]

    [tr]
    [td]
    10
    [/td]
    [td]
    +7
    [/td]
    [td]+7[/td]
    [td]+3[/td]
    [td]+3[/td]
    [td]+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class, Smite Evil 3/day, Aid of the Ancients 1/week[/td]
    [/tr]

    [/table]

    Class Features:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Chosen gain proficiency with martial weapons and light, medium and heavy armor if he did not already possess them. Note that this does not supersede other class restrictions that may apply. (Example: druids may not wear metal armor still.)

    For the purposes of turning, Lay on Hands and other abilities, Chosen levels are added to the base class. (So a Paladin 5/Chosen 1 would turn as a 3rd level Cleric and be able to Lay on Hands like a 6th level Paladin)

    Smite Evil (Su)
    Once per day, a Chosen may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. He adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per Chosen level. If the Chosen accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. *If the character already possesses the ability to Smite Evil, the number per day from the Chosen is added to his previous ability.

    The Chosen gains the ability to Smite Evil 1/day at 1st level, 2/day at 5th level, and 3/day at 10th level

    Sight of the Ancients (Su)
    I need to add this in once I get a hold my DM again. From what I recall, it's mostly roleplaying fluff that has no real impact on combat... it allows you to see ethereal objects and spirits that are normally not visible, but it is disrupted if you take hostile action, hostile action is taken against you, or even if you're jostled too hard. So it's mostly roleplaying fluff. (Which isn't bad! It just means this isn't a combat ability.)

    Divine Grace (Su)
    At 3rd level, a Chosen gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. If the Chosen already receives the benefit of Divine Grace from another class, such as the Paladin class, his saves change so that his Will save matches his Fortitude save for the levels of Chosen. (So where at Level 10 he would receive +7/+3/+3, he instead receives +7/+3/+7)

    Aura of Courage (Su)
    Beginning at 4th level, a Chosen is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.

    This ability functions while the Chosen is conscious, but not if he is unconscious or dead. *If the Chosen already possesses an Aura of Courage, the effect is enhanced: Each ally within 10 feet of him is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).

    Aid of the Ancients: Once a week, the Chosen can call on the spirits of his ancestors, summoning a ghostly incarnation of a previous Chosen to his aid. The summoned Chosen lasts 1 round / level. The ghost of the Chosen has an ECL of -2 to your current level, and gains levels as the Chosen does as he gains greater access to his past memories of that life.

    [hr]

    My basic goal is to allow clerics, paladins and fighter/clerics to enter this class around level 5-7, depending on progression. (A cleric would be eligible at level 7, a paladin at level 5, and a fighter/cleric at level 6)

    For Clerics, you gain some useful paladin abilities such as Aura of Courage, Divine Grace and Smite Evil, and you gain most of your spellcasting progression. For Paladins, you gain some enhancements to your current abilities.

    Once I think up eight good trials (and assuming I haven't fled in shame as this PrC is flamed for being ever-so-munckiny) I'll add those into the prerequisites for the class. If you do like the class, you can modify the name from 'Chosen of the Tribes' to 'Chosen of (insert diety)', and it should work equally well. Remove Sight of the Ancients and modifying Aid of the Ancients should make the class workable for most religious organizations.

    Please tell me what you think of the class, and what changes you would make.

    Possible steps to reduce the class's power:
    • Reduce the HD to d8 - this is more of a reduction for paladins then clerics.
    • Reduce the HD to d6 - definite reduction for paladins, reduction for clerics, and doesn't really fit the class... but less HP does make you more vulnerable.
    • Remove the Bonus Feats at levels 3, 7, 9. Remove the Leadership bonus feat. (or some combination of these)
    • Remove the Aura of Courage or Divine Grace ability
    • All of the above *:P *;D Though at that point, I'd just modify the Eldritch Knight class and change the arcane spell caster level progression to divine and call it good.

    One note: I possess only the basic book set - Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual. I also possess a few supplements such as the MM2, Manual of the Planes and the like, but nothing like the Book of Exalted Deeds, where I'm sure there's some cleric and paladin prestige classes. So please limit suggestions for feats or classes to look at to sources that are freely available or are from the basic books. Thanks!

    Edit #1 - Spelling mistake corrected
    Edit #2 - Added 'Alignment must be any good to prerequsites and removed spellcaster progression at 1st level
    Edit #3 - Changed HD from D10 to D8, Removed Leadership, Removed Bonus Feats, Removed spellcaster progression at 4th and 8th levels.
    Edit #4 - Changed BAB progression to 3/4, moved Divine Grace from 2nd Level to 3rd Level

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    this seems a bit overpowered to me, i think it would be better if you dropped the spell progression at fisrt level
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Add the "Alignment: Must be good" to the prerequisites. Otherwise it makes no sense.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Thanks for catching that, Maryring. Originally, I simply mandated that the person had to be within one alignment step of the diety, which I believe is NG... then I took that out to make it easier to move to other setups then this homebrew campaign and forgot to add what you suggested in.

    Removed the +1 caster level at 1st level... though honestly, I'm more willing to part with the Leadership bonus then the caster level. Still, eventually becoming the equivelant of a level 16 cleric isn't bad... (Since I'm pretty much the only tank, I'm crossing over to become a fighter/cleric and I'll probably be Fighter 3/Cleric 7/Chosen 10 if the campaign goes from level 1-20), and sacrificing one level for a pure cleric isn't bad either.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Okay, the first, biggest easiest way of answering the question "Is this prestige class overpowered?" is by asking the question "What does my character give up by taking levels in this class instead, and what is he getting in return?". So, since you're approaching this from the cleric angle, let's look at it from there.

    Your cleric is giving up:
    Improved Will saves.
    That's it.

    In return, he gets:
    d10 HD
    Improved BAB
    Smite Evil
    Aura of Courage
    Lay On Hands (not sure on this one, you worded it kind of weirdly)
    Leadership
    Three Fighter Bonus Feats
    Aid of the Ancients

    Judges? [glow=red,2,300]Bzzzzzzzzzt![/glow] Wrong! This prestige class is overpowered. Yes, a cleric would be getting into it slower than a paladin, but once he gets there, he's going to be very happy.

    Really, what you're trying to do is extremely difficult. Clerics are generally accepted as one of the most powerful classes from the core books, if not the most. So anything that gives them more tricks without some drawback should be carefully watched. And to be honest here, what this looks like the most is a way of being a paladin with cleric casting. Which is, to say, "Bah-roken". If you want those abilities so badly, play a paladin, not a cleric ;). The big problem is niche management: healers don't get to fight like the fighters, fighters don't get to sneak like the sneakers, sneakers don't get to blast like the blasters, and so forth. But the thing is, clerics are already beefy combat monsters, once you let them buff themselves up to full speed. (Watch a mid-to-high level cleric go nuts with Divine Favor and Righteous Might active and see what I mean.)

    As for suggestions on how to how to fix this, well, I'ma gonna need some more information from you about this "Chosen" character. What's he known for? What's his deal? He continuously reincarnates and leads his people? So does the Dalai Lama, but he ain't no warrior ;)! What kind of flavor would you like this guy to have (and if you say "paladin with cleric casting", I'ma give you the buzzer again ;).)?

    Really, to be honest, I'd save yourself some headaches, ask the DM if you can take the "Sight of the Ancients" as a feat or something, and then play a multiclassed cleric/pally, 'cuz that seems to be what you're shooting for. Yes, you won't have the combat abilites of a full paladin or the healing of a full cleric, but there's really no way to get both of those without breaking the balance of the game.
    Ohh! What's that!

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Simu-ninja attack!

    May I suggest looking at this for inspiration? It's basically the paladin as a prestige class, from Unearthed Arcana, and it seems to be what you're trying for.
    Ohh! What's that!

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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Lay on Hands - That was more for paladins. What I meant was that the Paladin would recieve his lay on hands (which operates on class levels) as Paladin levels + Chosen levels x Charisma bonus = healing total.

    I'll take your word on clerics being one of the most powerful classes - my view on them is heavily influenced by the fact that most games where I played clerics tended to die early on, and early on, I'm a fighter with worse attack, dice that hate me, and two healing spells a day, which I tend to need for myself since I'm the tank. ;)

    Honestly, as for the Chosen bit... wish I could help you. I'll need to hit up the DM about it. ;) I'm just trying to create a prestige class to match the social position. Luckily, it's not going to come up for a while, since I have a rather extensive quest to deal with before I can even think of heading home and dealing with this Chosen business. *grins*

    As for Paladin/Cleric... nah. Most of the really nice Paladin feats fall after level 3, and as I'm our only decent healer (we have a bard, who's good for backup, but...) I'm going to have to focus on Cleric over Paladin. I suspect I'll end up going Cleric 17 / Fighter 3. :)

    Thanks for the brutal honesty. ;D

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Picasso007
    Simu-ninja attack!

    May I suggest looking at this for inspiration? *It's basically the paladin as a prestige class, from Unearthed Arcana, and it seems to be what you're trying for.
    Thanks, I'll take a look at that and see if I can't modify it. See, my character is a 7'2" minotaur, and while he's technically Medium, he's coming in at the large end of the scale... I get pictures of him getting on a horse and the horse bending in the middle... and a large portion of the Paladin class is wrapped around the mount. ;)

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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    I like the idea you have, but I was also going to post something like Picasso007.

    The problem with designing a PrC this way is that you often want him to do too much.

    In my opinion the Paladin is the strongest class, but you have the alignment restriction and you need lots of high stats to use all the abilities.
    This class has almost all paladin abilities and a looser alignment requirement. It still needs high stats to use all the abilities though.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrfalcon

    Thanks, I'll take a look at that and see if I can't modify it. See, my character is a 7'2" minotaur, and while he's technically Medium, he's coming in at the large end of the scale... I get pictures of him getting on a horse and the horse bending in the middle... and a large portion of the Paladin class is wrapped around the mount. ;)
    If you're basing this around the Tauren already, why would you not take a non-standard mount as well, and ride something like a rhinocerous?

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak
    If you're basing this around the Tauren already, why would you not take a non-standard mount as well, and ride something like a rhinocerous?
    Because I wish to avoid the copyright fairies. ;) I'm actually trying to move the race more towards a good-aligned minotaur group then the Tauren.

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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Eliminate the bonus feats.
    Reduce the HD to d8.
    Lose the spell casting progression at 1st, 4th, 8th.

    I'd look at the prestige paladin in the uneathed arcana..

    Also note you have to be 6th level to have the leadership feat. So I think techincally you couldn't pick up this prestige class till 7th level.
    Always attack a manís strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle thatís where the action is. And itís the same in life. Donít run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    That's sort of a chicken and the egg... but let's take the paladin. He has all the necessary abilities at level 5, so at level 6, he takes Chosen 1, and should then be eligible for Leadership, as he's now a 6th level character.

    *edit* Moot point, since I removed the Leadership bonus feat anyway. ;P

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Alright, following the detriments/bonuses list Picasso did on the original class, here's what paladin/clerics would gain or lose at the moment.

    Clerics give up:
    Will save progression (from good to poor)
    3 caster levels

    Gains:
    Smite Evil 3/day
    Divine Grace
    Aura of Courage
    Aid of the Ancients

    Paladins Give up:
    D10 HD to D8 HD for ten levels (up to 20 HP)
    BAB progression (-3 BAB total)
    Remove Disease (2/week as opposed to 5/week)
    3 caster levels

    Gain:
    +1 Smite Evil (Paladin 10/Chosen 10 would be able to Smite evil 6/day)
    Bonus to Divine Grace (Will progression from poor to good)
    Aura of Courage (allies immune to fear if within 10')
    Aid of the Ancients

    ----

    So overall, it's a decent trade for some paladin-like abilities for the cleric, and a moderate to poor trade for the paladin for some enhancements to his current abilities.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Hate to bump my own topic, but I'd like to see what people think of the changes I made.

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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    It looks good. I like it.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Chosen (New PrC... PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrfalcon
    Paladins Give up:
    D10 HD to D8 HD for ten levels (up to 20 HP)
    BAB progression (-3 BAB total)
    Remove Disease (2/week as opposed to 5/week)
    3 caster levels

    Gain:
    +1 Smite Evil (Paladin 10/Chosen 10 would be able to Smite evil 6/day)
    Bonus to Divine Grace (Will progression from poor to good)
    Aura of Courage (allies immune to fear if within 10')
    Aid of the Ancients

    ----

    So overall, it's a decent trade for some paladin-like abilities for the cleric, and a moderate to poor trade for the paladin for some enhancements to his current abilities.

    Playing a Paladin I recogniceded you have forgotten the advancing Paladin Mount counting what he gives up.
    I think the "Aid of the Ancients" is no match for that.


    Also I think the class could qualify for a " May continue to advance as a Paladin"

    And how many Skillpoints does he get?
    I would gues 2+Int like all of the classes involved.
    Sorry for my bad English.&&&&Don\'t aske the GM for to powerfull items. &&He could give you more as you can handle...

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