Base Class: The Engineer [3.5; PEACH]

[Karma Guard]

Dynamo Cannon!

Never leave.

A possible Vocation might be to add on range; a snipery sort of one. Make it useful to the surveyor 'chain' and then you've made a hybrid! :V

And if you really want a companion, another vocation could just give you a familiar pulling from a limited little list that is basically 'effigy creature XYZ, Animated Object, Those Little Beetles That Are Metal Named (which I can't remember :V), (with levels) Hammerer, Pulverizer, so on, so forth, maybe a babby version of the item familiar that isn't ridiculously broken', with further vocations to make the thing better.

That'd be the simplest way to do it.

Also:

"150gp per character level" for making the Dynamo Cannon. That's a bit unfair, isn't it? Someone who decides to pick up the more gun route gets kinda screwed by this (even though I know it's not a lot of money AT ALL, logically, it sticks out.).

[Lappy9000]

A possible Vocation might be to add on range; a snipery sort of one. Make it useful to the surveyor 'chain' and then you've made a hybrid! :V

Ah, good idea.

And if you really want a companion, another vocation could just give you a familiar pulling from a limited little list that is basically 'effigy creature XYZ, Animated Object, Those Little Beetles That Are Metal Named (which I can't remember :V), (with levels) Hammerer, Pulverizer, so on, so forth, maybe a babby version of the item familiar that isn't ridiculously broken', with further vocations to make the thing better.

Honestly, I really, really don't want to give an engineer a mechanical companion. Especially they already exist; they're called homonculi.

"150gp per character level" for making the Dynamo Cannon. That's a bit unfair, isn't it? Someone who decides to pick up the more gun route gets kinda screwed by this (even though I know it's not a lot of money AT ALL, logically, it sticks out.).

How is that worse than the 1,000 that a suit of mecharmor costs?

[Owrtho]

Just curious, but in regards to the costs on vocations, are those one time fees, or do they for some reason have to pay them every time they level even if they don't do anything to the equipment that should require cost. Also, why should it cost more to take them at higher levels than lower levels when there is nothing that makes them better by doing so? Or is the cost only paid when you take it or one of the vocations that require it, and in that case is the cost the amount times the player level or the level required to take the vocation?

Owrtho

[13_CBS]

Without mecharmor, an engineer can already sub-tank utilizing Precision in place of their BAB, go straight skill-monkey with lots of crafting prowess, pick up some battlefield control with the Vernacular Architecture vocations, and even cancel out magic with the Neuroarcanics vocations. Heck, they could go heal-bot if their party consists of constructs (circa Eberron). So, yeah, I'd argue that an engineer has at least 5 party options, without the use of mecharmor

Yes, but an engineer with a mechanical companion can do at least two of those things at once, like Druids with animal companions.

[Hunter Noventa]

This is one of the most awesome things I have ever seen, I am definitely showing it to my DM this weekend.

I may have missed it in my skimming of the topic, but how about melee vocations in a similar vein to the dynamo cannon. Like I dunno...a drill/pick/chainweapon that can be charged with different elements, used with or without the mech armor.

And maybe a choice of capstones. One could be the mobile fortress. Another creates uber mecharmor complete with Super Robot traits. Possibly even transformation. And if you took the drill, a Giga Drill breaker of course. And Sunglasses.

[Lappy9000]

Just curious, but in regards to the costs on vocations, are those one time fees, or do they for some reason have to pay them every time they level even if they don't do anything to the equipment that should require cost. Also, why should it cost more to take them at higher levels than lower levels when there is nothing that makes them better by doing so? Or is the cost only paid when you take it or one of the vocations that require it, and in that case is the cost the amount times the player level or the level required to take the vocation?

Mmm, I'm gonna work on that.

Yes, but an engineer with a mechanical companion can do at least two of those things at once, like Druids with animal companions.

Druids are also massively over powered. Sorry, but I'm standing firm on this one. It would definitely be worth a Prestige Class, though

This is one of the most awesome things I have ever seen, I am definitely showing it to my DM this weekend.

You flatter me with your kind words

I may have missed it in my skimming of the topic, but how about melee vocations in a similar vein to the dynamo cannon. Like I dunno...a drill/pick/chainweapon that can be charged with different elements, used with or without the mech armor.

I like the idea. I think I'll tweak Thermal Transfer and possibly add in a new vocation.

And maybe a choice of capstones. One could be the mobile fortress. Another creates uber mecharmor complete with Super Robot traits. Possibly even transformation. And if you took the drill, a Giga Drill breaker of course. And Sunglasses.

Multiple capstones...I like it.

Engineer: PIERCE THE HEAVENS WITH YOUR DRILL!!!

[imp_fireball]

I really love this class and I think it would make an excellent addition to my campaign setting Orcs Unite! (if players ask that is; I did say I was allowing homebrew), since it's got a deal of technology paired with magic.

Although mender's touch doesn't really make sense. Standard action? That's like 3 seconds. In 3 seconds, you can't even screw in a nut - they can be darn tight after all. For the sake of fluff, I'd say that the engineer does, in fact, use a bit of magic (which is obvious after you look at the first of his vocations which give him spell-like abilities).

Mender's touch might simply be the result of his outlook on magic, his knowledge of the sciences allowed him to naturally learn how to customize a mend spell right from level one through pure innovation (he thought it out for a really long time and then eventually realized that he could do it). This doesn't necessarily mean he studies magic, since he doesn't understand every little intricacy that a wizard supposedly claims to understand about magic.
-----

Some guidelines on raw material costs for building, maintaining and repairing mecharmor would be nice.

What about modifying? Of course, for my campaign I could easily rule a techcraft check to modify and reduce it when it assumes that the engineer is more familiar with the mecharmor since they built it themselves.

There'd also be material and/or parts costs for modification which can be at GM discretion (I already made rules for parts in OU).

Blah Blah capstone ability blah

What about capstone vocation(s)? Some of them (or perhaps all) wouldn't have any prerequisites except requiring that the engineer be 20th level. Perhaps you could also sectionalize them into something called 'capstone vocation' which can only be taken every ten levels or whatever to prevent abuse in epic levels when an engineer ends up taking all of the capstone vocations in say, an ECL 30 game.

I was also thinking that, as a higher level vocation, the dynamo cannon could create portals - temporal dimension doors. Also the ability to teleport enemies that you attack to random locations - or locations that you program (programming might be a decipher script check or whatever) as a touch attack.

Would demand an appropriate saving throw from the enemy and is sort of magical in itself.

[Lappy9000]

I really love this class and I think it would make an excellent addition to my campaign setting Orcs Unite! (if players ask that is; I did say I was allowing homebrew), since it's got a deal of technology paired with magic.

Thankee greatly!

Although mender's touch doesn't really make sense. Standard action? That's like 3 seconds. In 3 seconds, you can't even screw in a nut - they can be darn tight after all. For the sake of fluff, I'd say that the engineer does, in fact, use a bit of magic (which is obvious after you look at the first of his vocations which give him spell-like abilities).

Mender's touch might simply be the result of his outlook on magic, his knowledge of the sciences allowed him to naturally learn how to customize a mend spell right from level one through pure innovation (he thought it out for a really long time and then eventually realized that he could do it). This doesn't necessarily mean he studies magic, since he doesn't understand every little intricacy that a wizard supposedly claims to understand about magic.

...Mender's touch is a Supernatural Ability. And, yes, you pretty much summed up the relations between engineers and magic right there.

What about modifying? Of course, for my campaign I could easily rule a techcraft check to modify and reduce it when it assumes that the engineer is more familiar with the mecharmor since they built it themselves.

There'd also be material and/or parts costs for modification which can be at GM discretion (I already made rules for parts in OU).

Seriously, simplicity is crucial. Stuff like this starts to get complicated for the more casual players. Besides, many of the vocations are pretty much modifications. I just don't feel the need to stat out every aspect of an engineer's talents specifically when a neat little series of vocations works just fine.

What about capstone vocation(s)? Some of them (or perhaps all) wouldn't have any prerequisites except requiring that the engineer be 20th level. Perhaps you could also sectionalize them into something called 'capstone vocation' which can only be taken every ten levels or whatever to prevent abuse in epic levels when an engineer ends up taking all of the capstone vocations in say, an ECL 30 game.

That would fall under "The Epic Engineer."

I was also thinking that, as a higher level vocation, the dynamo cannon could create portals - temporal dimension doors. Also the ability to teleport enemies that you attack to random locations - or locations that you program (programming might be a decipher script check or whatever) as a touch attack.

Portal guns. Great idea!

[Drothmal]

First of all, this class is so amazing that it pushed me over the fence to make an account so I could ask questions and make comments. Thanks!!

Questions:

1) I'm not sure I completely understand the amount of innovation points. Is it amount + (int modifier) (level) or just amount + (int modifier)

If the latter, wouldn't it be better to make it more like the psionic points? I mean a good int is nice at the begging, but eventually you would have enough innovation points and skill points to make choosing Int as one of your main stats less than desirable

2) Does the mecharmor increased size stack with Monkey grip: If so, someone that starts with large size, uses monkey grip, a mecharmor and a heavy material weapon could get 4 size advancements, which would make it very scary (don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a massive weapon, but I was just curious if this is within what you wanted)

3) Would engineer by the favored class for gnome?

4) Can they multiclass with Barbarian? This would seem a bit odd, and maybe trying to take advantage on stacking the rage + the mecharmor


Suggestion and comments

How about adding an equivalent to improved critical? Like giving a 18-20 crit range, but if you do you an only evolve the weapon twice


I think that the best idea is giving different caps for the different builds, some ideas could be

AT field:

Activate for 5 points, you can keep it up for 2 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, 2X armor reinforcements
You make a 5' radius field that dissipates incoming physical and magic attacks (or you could give a 10+engineer level+Int modifier SR and a 20+engineer level+Int modifier AC. Activating and holding the field is a full round action and no attacks can come from inside the field. (Yes, this was inspired on Evangelion, ).

Zero-Drive (stolen from the Gundam series):

Activate for 6 points, you can keep it up for 3 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, Overdrive
You use your incredible intellect to gain an insight on the battlefield, predicting movements, finding weaknesses and preempting enemies
After you activate (swift action), you become the first in the initiative order for next round. You gain a +4 bonus to Attack and +6 to AC (maybe a bit more, since it's a cap...)

Iron man (hopefully, no need to explain where this came from)
Requirements: mecharmor, maximized natural weapon damage
You make the armor smaller, give it flight, more DR, more strength and make it restricted to using the natural weapons

Charge Cannon (megamanX ftw)
Requirements: Maxed out cannon damage
You charge your weapon for X turns (charging is a full round action)
You do one blast at your maximum attack bonus + #of turns charging
You deal damage X(#of rounds charging + 1). Stacks with critical
If you move more than 5 feet a turn, you loose the charging (but you still expend the points)
Cost: A sort of Fibonacci series depending on the number of turns, like
4,6,10,16,26
I can just imagine an engineer saying, "you guys hold him for 30 seconds" and then blasting the crap away of the boss after all the party has been acting as meat shields



I also want to say how much I thank you for this awesome class!! I've been a DM for a while now and it's been a long time since I've gotten so exited about playing as a character with a class. My comments are meant with the best of intentions

Drothmal

[DracoDei]

You know... if you hadn't made the mech-armor a requirement, I would have found a way to let gnomish engineers into the Society*... even if it was Technically a seperate PrC with the same fluff and a lot of the same rules...

Wait!

I have it!

You take your armor to pieces, and using the blueprints in the Society library for inspiration, you rebuild it as a quadrupedal design for your blink-dog partner, incorporating the saddle into it!

Does that sound worth doing?


*Full name below

Spoiler

Show

THE MILITANT ARM OF THE RIGHT-HONORABLE, BOTH IN BATTLEFIELD CONDUCT AND IN MORE EVERYDAY CIVILITY, GNOMISH SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY AND THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THE STORAGE OF ENERGIES OF MOTION IN WOODEN AND METAL ARMATURES AND THE RAPID RELEASE AND RESTORATION AFTER RELEASE OF THOSE ENERGIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROJECTING, WITH PRECISION, PROJECTILES, USUALLY OF A POINTED NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CAUSE HARM, FREQUENTLY TO POINT OF DEATH, AND IN RARE INSTANCES MEASURES BEYOND DEATH TO THOSE THAT GARL GLITTERGOLD WHOSE PRANKS ARE ALWAYS BOTH AMUSING AND INSTRUCTIVE, AGREES WITH OUR OWN HEARTS ON THE POINT THAT THE WORLD IS DECIDEDLY AND STRONGLY LIKELY TO BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT BEING IN SUCH CONDITIONS AS MAY FROM TIME TO TIME ALLOW THEM TO PROJECT FORCE UPON OTHERS BY MEANS OF MARTIAL ENDEAVOR.

[TSED]

Random ideas:

1) Flying potion-dispensers as a vocation. Build a gizmo, select a target, it goes and attacks it with potion contents (be it cure X wounds or Super Acid).

2) On that topic, improved consumables as a vocation. Chemist Major, or some such. Some other people have stated it. I disagree that there can be too many Vocations (HOWEVER: you might want to separate them into different 'trees' for ease of use).

3) For a capstone idea...

Spoiler

Show

Easily Inspired
Every moment seems to inspire you with some new hair-brained scheme.
Every time you successfully make a spot, listen, search, or knowledge check by 5 points or more over the needed DC, you regain 2 inspiration points.
Every time you knock an enemy to or below 0 hit points, you gain 3 inspiration points.
Every time an ally within 60' of you is knocked to 25% or less of their maximum hit points, you gain 4 inspiration points.
Every time YOU are knocked to or below 25% of your hit points, you regain 1 inspiration point for every 2 points of damage you have taken.

Eh? Eh? Kind of unbalances the class a smidge, but at that level wizards are waltzing around turning their familiars into Spell-Stitched Dire Half-Red-Dragon Young Adult Black Dragons and making their own demiplanes, so being able to keep up the effort might help.

[Karma Guard]

How is that worse than the 1,000 that a suit of mecharmor costs?

I don't care about armor ( ._.)9 MORE GUN LESS RUN

And I totally forgot about homunculi. Those will do nicely.

[Gorgondantess]

Wow. Great class, but in my opinion, the mecharmor needs expanding.
1st of all, it needs some better arsenal. How about being able to enchant the cannon? There needs to be some scaling in its abilities, or it will be quickly outdated.
Also- attatchable blades. Give it a greatsword, and maybe a vocation for a mundane shocking burst enchantment on it- running electricity through the blade.
Also, jetpacks. The mecharmor needs jetpacks. And hydraulic arms, for additional strength bonuses.
All in all, consider scaling things. The cost of the mecharmor scales- why not its abilities? Beyond just a speed bonus, I mean. Make the natural attacks and armor bonus gain an enhancement bonus equal to engineer level/4 (rounded down, of course). Maybe allow a vocation to customize where the enhancement bonus goes, so you can trade a +1 for keen, or something like that.
Anyhow, I hope you'll take my suggestions into consideration. Looks like it could be a lot of fun to play.

One last thing- can you take a feat for extra vocations?

[0650]

My only thought would be: Can one apply magic item abilities to the dynamo cannon as a ranged weapon and/or the mech as armour? If not at high levels they become outdated as magic armour + boots of speed + belt of giant strength is for the most part a better option

[Lappy9000]

First of all, this class is so amazing that it pushed me over the fence to make an account so I could ask questions and make comments. Thanks!!

Questions:

1) I'm not sure I completely understand the amount of innovation points. Is it amount + (int modifier) (level) or just amount + (int modifier)

If the latter, wouldn't it be better to make it more like the psionic points? I mean a good int is nice at the begging, but eventually you would have enough innovation points and skill points to make choosing Int as one of your main stats less than desirable

2) Does the mecharmor increased size stack with Monkey grip: If so, someone that starts with large size, uses monkey grip, a mecharmor and a heavy material weapon could get 4 size advancements, which would make it very scary (don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a massive weapon, but I was just curious if this is within what you wanted)

3) Would engineer by the favored class for gnome?

4) Can they multiclass with Barbarian? This would seem a bit odd, and maybe trying to take advantage on stacking the rage + the mecharmor


Suggestion and comments

How about adding an equivalent to improved critical? Like giving a 18-20 crit range, but if you do you an only evolve the weapon twice


I think that the best idea is giving different caps for the different builds, some ideas could be

AT field:

Activate for 5 points, you can keep it up for 2 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, 2X armor reinforcements
You make a 5' radius field that dissipates incoming physical and magic attacks (or you could give a 10+engineer level+Int modifier SR and a 20+engineer level+Int modifier AC. Activating and holding the field is a full round action and no attacks can come from inside the field. (Yes, this was inspired on Evangelion, ).

Zero-Drive (stolen from the Gundam series):

Activate for 6 points, you can keep it up for 3 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, Overdrive
You use your incredible intellect to gain an insight on the battlefield, predicting movements, finding weaknesses and preempting enemies
After you activate (swift action), you become the first in the initiative order for next round. You gain a +4 bonus to Attack and +6 to AC (maybe a bit more, since it's a cap...)

Iron man (hopefully, no need to explain where this came from)
Requirements: mecharmor, maximized natural weapon damage
You make the armor smaller, give it flight, more DR, more strength and make it restricted to using the natural weapons

Charge Cannon (megamanX ftw)
Requirements: Maxed out cannon damage
You charge your weapon for X turns (charging is a full round action)
You do one blast at your maximum attack bonus + #of turns charging
You deal damage X(#of rounds charging + 1). Stacks with critical
If you move more than 5 feet a turn, you loose the charging (but you still expend the points)
Cost: A sort of Fibonacci series depending on the number of turns, like
4,6,10,16,26
I can just imagine an engineer saying, "you guys hold him for 30 seconds" and then blasting the crap away of the boss after all the party has been acting as meat shields



I also want to say how much I thank you for this awesome class!! I've been a DM for a while now and it's been a long time since I've gotten so exited about playing as a character with a class. My comments are meant with the best of intentions

Drothmal

Welcome to the forums! Your compliments make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

1) "An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis." So, yes, number on the table + Intelligence modifier.

Also, what do you mean about the Innovation? Are you implying that it's bad to have too many skill points?

2) I have no idea if Powerful Build stacks with Monkey Grip. The feat has gained too much infamy to get a clear source on it, and I don't own that book. Anyone got an answer? (although, to my limited understanding, I don't think it will be a problem).

3) I'm sure someone is probably gonna houserule that in.

4) Sure, although I imagine they'd stack the Rage with the Overdrive.

You know... if you hadn't made the mech-armor a requirement, I would have found a way to let gnomish engineers into the Society*... even if it was Technically a seperate PrC with the same fluff and a lot of the same rules...

Wait!

I have it!

You take your armor to pieces, and using the blueprints in the Society library for inspiration, you rebuild it as a quadrupedal design for your blink-dog partner, incorporating the saddle into it!

Does that sound worth doing?


*Full name below

Spoiler

Show

THE MILITANT ARM OF THE RIGHT-HONORABLE, BOTH IN BATTLEFIELD CONDUCT AND IN MORE EVERYDAY CIVILITY, GNOMISH SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY AND THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THE STORAGE OF ENERGIES OF MOTION IN WOODEN AND METAL ARMATURES AND THE RAPID RELEASE AND RESTORATION AFTER RELEASE OF THOSE ENERGIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROJECTING, WITH PRECISION, PROJECTILES, USUALLY OF A POINTED NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CAUSE HARM, FREQUENTLY TO POINT OF DEATH, AND IN RARE INSTANCES MEASURES BEYOND DEATH TO THOSE THAT GARL GLITTERGOLD WHOSE PRANKS ARE ALWAYS BOTH AMUSING AND INSTRUCTIVE, AGREES WITH OUR OWN HEARTS ON THE POINT THAT THE WORLD IS DECIDEDLY AND STRONGLY LIKELY TO BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT BEING IN SUCH CONDITIONS AS MAY FROM TIME TO TIME ALLOW THEM TO PROJECT FORCE UPON OTHERS BY MEANS OF MARTIAL ENDEAVOR.

What do you mean "made the mecharmor a requirement?" That was the one thing I was specifically trying not to do with the class. It's an engineer, not a mechwarrior (although you can totally build one to be that way)

My only thought would be: Can one apply magic item abilities to the dynamo cannon as a ranged weapon and/or the mech as armour? If not at high levels they become outdated as magic armour + boots of speed + belt of giant strength is for the most part a better option

It's a weapon, isn't it? Of course you can!

Random ideas:

1) Flying potion-dispensers as a vocation. Build a gizmo, select a target, it goes and attacks it with potion contents (be it cure X wounds or Super Acid).

2) On that topic, improved consumables as a vocation. Chemist Major, or some such. Some other people have stated it. I disagree that there can be too many Vocations (HOWEVER: you might want to separate them into different 'trees' for ease of use).

3) For a capstone idea...

Spoiler

Show

Easily Inspired
Every moment seems to inspire you with some new hair-brained scheme.
Every time you successfully make a spot, listen, search, or knowledge check by 5 points or more over the needed DC, you regain 2 inspiration points.
Every time you knock an enemy to or below 0 hit points, you gain 3 inspiration points.
Every time an ally within 60' of you is knocked to 25% or less of their maximum hit points, you gain 4 inspiration points.
Every time YOU are knocked to or below 25% of your hit points, you regain 1 inspiration point for every 2 points of damage you have taken.

Eh? Eh? Kind of unbalances the class a smidge, but at that level wizards are waltzing around turning their familiars into Spell-Stitched Dire Half-Red-Dragon Young Adult Black Dragons and making their own demiplanes, so being able to keep up the effort might help.

1) Not a lot of synergy, since these guys don't make the greatest alchemists.

2) Separating the ideas into trees was the original idea, and one that didn't work out too well, hence why I'm limiting the number of vocations.

3) It's a great idea, but they're Innovation points, so the fluff doesn't fit in quite as well.

Wow. Great class, but in my opinion, the mecharmor needs expanding.
1st of all, it needs some better arsenal. How about being able to enchant the cannon? There needs to be some scaling in its abilities, or it will be quickly outdated.
Also- attatchable blades. Give it a greatsword, and maybe a vocation for a mundane shocking burst enchantment on it- running electricity through the blade.
Also, jetpacks. The mecharmor needs jetpacks. And hydraulic arms, for additional strength bonuses.
All in all, consider scaling things. The cost of the mecharmor scales- why not its abilities? Beyond just a speed bonus, I mean. Make the natural attacks and armor bonus gain an enhancement bonus equal to engineer level/4 (rounded down, of course). Maybe allow a vocation to customize where the enhancement bonus goes, so you can trade a +1 for keen, or something like that.
Anyhow, I hope you'll take my suggestions into consideration. Looks like it could be a lot of fun to play.

One last thing- can you take a feat for extra vocations?

Maybe some scaling, although the greatsword idea is kind of silly (you can just pick up Martial Weapon Proficiency).

Edit: Not at the moment, no.

[DracoDei]

Sorry, someone suggested that they all should get it and for some reason I thought you had adopted that and edited it into the main post...

Ok, so they don't HAVE to have mech-armor... would creating a parallel class for gnomish engineers who are members of the Society be worth it do you think?

[Kellus]

Wow. This looks really incredible. Great job! I'm trying to think of ideas for a suitable capstone right now.

One quick question: if you can only get Mecharmour at level 3, what's the point of having a speed bonus listed on the table for levels 1 and 2?

[Owrtho]

You can get a dig speed at level 1. It and the climb speed also use the speed bonus table.

Owrtho

[Kellus]

Ah, good catch. Never mind! Great class!

[Lappy9000]

Ah, good catch. Never mind! Great class!

Thankee

And thank you, Owrthro, for doing some of my Q&A for me.

[Eldrys]

Holy Nine Hells

Only got one thing to say to that:
Let's just say that you should wait until Sunday rolls around. Although it may take a while before you actually see that.

It's past the weekend. A NEED MA' MEGA DRILL.

[Lappy9000]

The important part is the "Although it may take a while before you actually see that." I was implying that it was one of the new weapons I'll be introducing in my campaign setting, which may take a while before anyone sees it.

I might post them up separately; I just hadn't originally planned to do so.

[Eldrys]

The important part is the "Although it may take a while before you actually see that." I was implying that it was one of the new weapons I'll be introducing in my campaign setting, which may take a while before anyone sees it.

I might post them up separately; I just hadn't originally planned to do so.

Now all you get is this:

[Lappy9000]

Now all you get is this:

Well, I ain't posting them here; don't wanna derail the thread

[Eldrys]

Well, I ain't posting them here; don't wanna derail the thread

Okay but you at least have to post a link to your campaign world. If you do I'ss throw across lake Michigan and give you back a .

[Drothmal]

1) "An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis." So, yes, number on the table + Intelligence modifier.

Also, what do you mean about the Innovation? Are you implying that it's bad to have too many skill points?



Sorry, I did not explain myself properly: I was thinking that maybe the innovation points should depend on Int the same way that power points for psionics depend on Wis (that is, a progression of how many innovation points you get out of a certain intelligence modifier).

I think is great to have so many skill points! It totally fits with the class and I love it. I was just thinking that there should be more of an incentive in increasing the Int even further than a +3 or +4 (in which case you would have 10 SP per level, which I always think as a lot). Even though I guess you need a high Int for things such as the overdrive and such... I was just thinking that there were many possible builds in which having a very high Int might not be a priority, which feels wrong in my mind... Sorry if this statement is confusing. I'm having a hard time expressing what is bothering me about it.

Btw, what did you think of the caps?

[Owrtho]

Just curious, but in regards to the costs on vocations, are those one time fees, or do they for some reason have to pay them every time they level even if they don't do anything to the equipment that should require cost. Also, why should it cost more to take them at higher levels than lower levels when there is nothing that makes them better by doing so? Or is the cost only paid when you take it or one of the vocations that require it, and in that case is the cost the amount times the player level or the level required to take the vocation?

Asked this before, and all you said is you were going to work on that. Wondered if you had come up with anything in regaurds to it or were still working on it. I myself would recomend something along the lines of that the cost is x per minimum level of the vocation and must be paid when taking the first vocation and any vocations that require it before you get the benefits of said vocation. Thus upon taking the mecharmor you would pay 1000 x 3 =3000. taking any of the other level 3 vocations requireing mech armor (Armor Reinforcement or Ranged Artillery) would also cost 3000. Taking Overdrive or Weapon Augmentation which require level 6 would cost 6000, etc.

Owrtho

[Lappy9000]

Okay but you at least have to post a link to your campaign world. If you do I'ss throw across lake Michigan and give you back a .

The big honkin' banner in mah sig

1) "An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis." So, yes, number on the table + Intelligence modifier.

Also, what do you mean about the Innovation? Are you implying that it's bad to have too many skill points?

Sorry, I did not explain myself properly: I was thinking that maybe the innovation points should depend on Int the same way that power points for psionics depend on Wis (that is, a progression of how many innovation points you get out of a certain intelligence modifier).

I think is great to have so many skill points! It totally fits with the class and I love it. I was just thinking that there should be more of an incentive in increasing the Int even further than a +3 or +4 (in which case you would have 10 SP per level, which I always think as a lot). Even though I guess you need a high Int for things such as the overdrive and such... I was just thinking that there were many possible builds in which having a very high Int might not be a priority, which feels wrong in my mind... Sorry if this statement is confusing. I'm having a hard time expressing what is bothering me about it.

Btw, what did you think of the caps?

Ah, I've gotcha' now. Intelligence is important to the class, but unlike a wizard, an engineer isn't going to be useless without it, which I put down as a good thing. But...putting in some more Intelligence-based abilities may not be a bad idea.

Asked this before, and all you said is you were going to work on that. Wondered if you had come up with anything in regaurds to it or were still working on it. I myself would recomend something along the lines of that the cost is x per minimum level of the vocation and must be paid when taking the first vocation and any vocations that require it before you get the benefits of said vocation. Thus upon taking the mecharmor you would pay 1000 x 3 =3000. taking any of the other level 3 vocations requireing mech armor (Armor Reinforcement or Ranged Artillery) would also cost 3000. Taking Overdrive or Weapon Augmentation which require level 6 would cost 6000, etc.

Owrtho

Ah, sorry, I get distracted and forget things easily. That idea is waaay better than what I planned to do. I'll put that up with haste!

[Owrtho]

Ah, sorry, I get distracted and forget things easily. That idea is waaay better than what I planned to do. I'll put that up with haste!

Glad to see you like the idea (it also takes care of the main problem I had with the class). Though I'd suggest wording it slightly differently so that it is clear that the additional cost is for when each additional vocation is taken.

maybe "____ requires x gp. Plus an additional x gp must be spent when taking each vocation with the ____ as a prerequisite before the benefits come into effect." rather than "____ requires x gp plus an additional x gp for each vocation with the ____ as a prerequisite."

Owrtho

[Eldrys]

The big honkin' banner in mah sig

OK, I is happy now