MitD - What We Know

[HamsterOfTheGod]

If we're going by the book, a casting of Maze affects only one target at a time. But aside from teleportation and wish variants, a psionic time hop does fit what's been observed so far, and can affect multiple targets.

A 5th level psion can use time hop, and an adult amethyst dragon is a 5th level kineticist...

[Super_slash2]

I'm sorry, isn't it possible you're over-thinking the Go Board image?

When I looked at The Go Board I didn't think it was a picture of The MiTD. I thought it was a representation of O-Chul's point.

The white pieces represent Xykon (to me, the white part looks like his skull) and the black part represents The MiTD. And it seems like the white is threatening to destroy that base of pieces, just as Xykon is threatening to crush The MiTD's ability to reason and fight back. But just like the Go game, Xykon cannot crush The MiTD as is, just as white cannot take The MiTD, even though The MiTD is surrounded by Xykon's 'skull'.

I thought it was a very VERY neat visual representation of O-Chul's speech and I don't really think it's supposed to be a clue to what the MiTD is. Or to O-Chul.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

I will soon have all of these strips tacked to the wall of my apartment for reference, as I sit in the dark, scribbling wild theories about the identity of the MitD and drinking some lukewarm caffinated beverage.

That's how I spend ALL my time...you aren't doing it yet?

[Corwin Weber]

Would BioWare sue if the Mitd was actually a Miniature Giant Space Hamster?

I see I'm not the first one to have thought of this. Well sort of, anyway.

A giant space hamster would be possible. They're big, they're strong, they can't normally talk.... but with gnomish breeding programs going on who knows what one could do?

Bioware wouldn't have any say in the matter either. WOtC would. GSH's are from Spelljammer. The original rights holder was TSR, and I assume WOtC got them after that.

[Kish]

Same thing for Sphinxes ;)

D&D Sphinxes aren't nearly powerful enough. Can I prove that the creature in the darkness is not a humorous hybrid of real-world and D&D sphinx to account for all his traits? No. But it's not the way I'm going to bet.

[Salt_Crow]

I'm more supportive of "non-evil evil outsider" idea. Considering how MitD could not see the gate warded by Dorukan, my assumption was that the wizard had somehow enchanted the gate to become specifically imperceivable to a certain range of creatures.

[slb]

Can I put a vote in for a Hagunemnon (Protean)?

Most interesting proposal I've read so far

[Hurkyl]

In comic #550, we see the MitD's arm / claw / something. We also get the position of his mouth relative to his eyes. (We get that in #375 too)

And, there is the alledged picture in #651.

Have there been any other clues to his actual shape? Have any of our artists tried sketching out what it might look have?

[tomandtish]

Actually Hurkyl, as far as 550 goes, I think I'll have to disagree. You see the bucket (gray), the handle of the bucket (the long black line) and the stew pouring into it's mouth (the brown). I don't think any part of what you see is actually the MitD.

[Hurkyl]

Ah yes, that looks accurate.

[tomandtish]

Don't worry, I thought the same as you at first, until I looked at it again.

Actually, looking back at 375 and 550 (and a few other places) we see lots of instances of him "holding" something with no appendage being visible. Telekinesis?

[Faltenin]

I still like the Pit Fiend theory.... because it gives a very nice revelation for comic 666

[Nerdanel]

I wonder if Celia is able to perceive the gates...

We don't know if the Snarl actually has the [Evil] or [Chaotic] subtype. If Dorukan made the gates invisible to Outsiders in general, they would target Half-Earth Elementals too, as the inherited template makes them Outsiders with the [Earth] subtype.

[ZerglingOne]

Link the post in your signature! That way it'll show up on every post you've ever made. ! Nice job by the way.

[daggaz]

So what has to sleep after using its various SL abilities???

[Calmness]

Hmm... it's not a construct or well, anything that does not sleep. There are still plenty of choices though.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

A 5th level psion can use time hop, and an adult amethyst dragon is a 5th level kineticist...

OK it was probly not time hop

[EmperorSarda]

Actually, looking back at 375 and 550 (and a few other places) we see lots of instances of him "holding" something with no appendage being visible. Telekinesis?

The Mitd is Homestarrunner!

[xocist]

Why, no matter how many times people say it, do the baby-snarl/tarresque claimers never seem to understand the concept of non-unique.
Incidently, nobody else seems to have pointed this out, so I feel I should share my wisdom with you. But first:
As previously mentioned it can't be a construct, as it eats, however nobody seems to be making any such claims so far, so that's good. Also the probability of it NOT being a youngling of it's species (note: species, NON-BLOODY-UNIQUE) is so overwhelmingly small that I don't think there's any point even contemplating it. Just look at, firstly his behaviour, and secondly Haley's comment on him.
Also, and this is the bit you lot seem to have missed, it can't be an outsider, undead or dragon... Simply because doesn't have coloured speech bubbles. This includes a pit fiend.
I am unsure of what has been said outside the webcomic, from what I gather we should be able to recognise him on sight with ease. Taking all of this into account, the pokemon theory is the most sensible one I've heard. Eithe rthat or the rock one... hehe... that one was funny... Though, I must admit this is not due to them being overly credible... it's just none of the other ones fit... Umm... I was going to say more stuff on the matter but, oh well-... can't remember it now...

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Also, and this is the bit you lot seem to have missed, it can't be an outsider, undead or dragon... Simply because doesn't have coloured speech bubbles. This includes a pit fiend.

You mean like Sabine?

[satorian]

I don't know much about pokemons, to the point that the only one i would recognize is pikachu. They aren't all that easily recognizable for anyone currently over about 25, which includes not only a bunch of playgrounders but the Giant himself. Also, don't they all look different from one another? They aren't really a recognizable species so much as a bunch of big monsters that all look different from one another. They are all unique. Pokemon, thankfully, is out.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I have to say, the latest comic (#662) increases the chances of MitD being Snorlax (or its baby form, munchlax). Points in its favour:

• The eating, of course.
• Unexpected to the hunters not because it is in a forest, but because it's in D&D (but the world contains ninjas thanks to the monkey god... maybe Odin likes Pokemon as he likes puppets? Although the Paladin's use of pokeballs suggests the southern gods)
• Gets sleepy after using his powers
• Normally doesn't talk (just says is name over and over again, like any pokemon), but can talk (unlike, say, Tarrasque).
• Snorlax's (and munchlax's) powers include Earthquake, increadibly strong punches, and metronome. I don't believe that MitD caused the teleportation, though.
• Sheer amount of HP would be the same as damage resistance, with the added bonus of explaining the papercut (those hurt even if they are small).
• Since pokemon levels are not tied to age, being a high-level munchlax explains its mental abilities. Also its open eyes.
• Not inmune to psychic abilities (normal effectiveness)
• Given the reactions to the MitD being a pokemon, it fits the "Horrible, and yet so Beautiful" comment like a glove. Any number of forum members will likely scream as much.

Edit:

I don't know much about pokemons, to the point that the only one i would recognize is pikachu. They aren't all that easily recognizable for anyone currently over about 25, which includes not only a bunch of playgrounders but the Giant himself. Also, don't they all look different from one another? They aren't really a recognizable species so much as a bunch of big monsters that all look different from one another. They are all unique. Pokemon, thankfully, is out.

I disagree. I don't like the pokemon games, but even though I am over 25 I recognise them as pokemon (even if I may not know their names). The Giant obviously knows enough about Pokemon to have the pokeball jokes and the "I choose you" line, and Snorlax is amongst the better known types. Oh, and they don't all look different. They come in species - munchlax and snorlax is one. Pikachus are another. Each species has hundreds of members (except for some of the rarest pokemons, I think. Mew is likely unique).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Calmness]

I don't know much about pokemons, to the point that the only one i would recognize is pikachu. They aren't all that easily recognizable for anyone currently over about 25, which includes not only a bunch of playgrounders but the Giant himself. Also, don't they all look different from one another? They aren't really a recognizable species so much as a bunch of big monsters that all look different from one another. They are all unique. Pokemon, thankfully, is out.

Eh, they are recognizable to anyone who likes the games (spinoffs or otherwise), or that has watched the cartoon. Still, i don't think the MITD is a Pokemon. The closest thing would be that maybe it is somebody's holy mount, and that has to come out of a Pokeball, though i don't think that's likely either.

Edit:Huh? Snorlax can talk? Since when?

[Rotipher]

The MitD is a young titan.

Except that a young titan wouldn't look much different from a human being if it's Medium, or a giant if it's bigger than that. So why would those hunters from SoD have been so astonished to encounter a Common-speaking human or giant in a rain forest?

[Rotipher]

1. Maybe belongs to a species. But as an alternative, it may belong to an identifiable type of creature, such as "tentacled monstrosity", without necessarily being easily identified as a specific species.

Alternately, it could be that the MitD only resembles whatever creature the hunters mistook it for. There are a lot of critters in D&D, or in Nature for that matter, which look like something they're not.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Edit:Huh? Snorlax can talk? Since when?

According to Meowth, any Pokemon can learn to talk. Most don't bother/never get the chance. This fact already puts the pokemon theory ahead of most of the other theories presented (demons and such can talk, tarrasques and other creatures can't, Pokemon can but usually don't)

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Rotipher]

Finally found a possible creature. I had to go old school and whip out my 2nd Edition stuff. There is only one way to get an iconic D&D creature that would not be easily recognized by a majority of D&D fanboyz... and that's going old school.

What is the creature you ask?
A Ki-rin

A ki-rin is an herbivore. If the MitD was one of those, eating all that stew would have probably given it a stomachache.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Link the post in your signature! That way it'll show up on every post you've ever made. ! Nice job by the way.

Thanks! I'll be sure to do that.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Okay, I've waded through six pages of this thread, and it's about as much as I can stomach, so if what I am proposing has already been suggested, just let me know. I won't be offended. Just don't expect me to keep reading the same, lame half dozen suggestions over and over and over and over and over...

Let's approach this from a different angle, shall we? It is incontestable that Xykon expected the MitD to be of use to him against his enemies, and is in fact a bit peeved that it hasn't been as useful as he would have liked. This, without a doubt, tells us a good deal.

First, although he is sometimes capricious, Xykon is not stupid. He is, in fact, an epic level caster, and his knowledge and abilities are not to be trifled with. And he - and this is crucial - thinks that the MitD is (a) quite powerful and (b) likely to be of use in his undoubtedly evil schemes.

Now, it could be that this is because most of the creatures of the MitD's species are also evil, but that raises the question of why Xykon doesn't just go and get one that is full grown and - presumably - more powerful. I see two answers to this question: one, Xykon would himself feel threatened by such a being, which ought to give us pause, or, two, creatures of the MitD's species are not, in fact, normally evil. There is also the possibility that creatures of the MitD's type are rare enough that an adult one would be impossible to come by, even if desired, but I'll set that aside for the moment - not because I think it implausible, but rather simply because I wish to discuss the others first.

The second option explains, simultaneously, two things. First, why use an immature (x) when a mature (x) would be stronger, one imagines? Well, for starters, it would be, ceteris paribus, more easily manipulated. Second, why keep the MitD in the dark all the time; why spring him on the party by surprise? For a long time I assumed it was just Xykon's feckless sense of drama, but I'm not so sure anymore. Perhaps there is an inherent surprise value to the MitD, something more than just what would attend to seeing a very powerful monster. After all, as someone pointed out, the OotS takes on powerful monsters all the time. If the MitD is of a monster type that is not usually evil, though, or even usually good, seeing it at Xykon's side would, in fact, have a powerful effect on morale.

This depends, however, on the monster being something that Xykon's enemies would recognize. It also depends on the monster being of a kind that has a natural arc of intellectual development - that's the only way it would have been safe for Xykon to try to bend it to his will (that is, knowing it won't come into its full intellectual abilities for some time).

Most of the speculation so far has been on the abilities of the monster, and all this has gotten us is (heaven help us) talk of Pokemon and Final Fantasy and (kill me now) ENDLESS references to the tarrasque. Let's set that aside for the moment and think about how Xykon and Redcloak have interacted with the MitD, how they fit it into their plans, and what that tells us.

There's a lot to be debated about the finer points of the proposals I've made, but they are just a starting point, after all. What do people think?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Okay, I've waded through six pages of this thread, and it's about as much as I can stomach, so if what I am proposing has already been suggested, just let me know. I won't be offended. Just don't expect me to keep reading the same, lame half dozen suggestions over and over and over and over and over...

<snip>

There's a lot to be debated about the finer points of the proposals I've made, but they are just a starting point, after all. What do people think?

Well, three points spring to mind. One, it is new, so don't worry about that. Two, it is not a bad idea, but neither is it particularly useful (see below). Three, you didn't actually propose anything that fits your concept.

Now, as for point number 2, you suggest that instead of looking at the hard facts of MitD, we base ourselves in the unexpressed feelings towards MitD of Xykon and Redcloak (and I imagine the other characters that have interacted with out-of-darkness MitD).

The main problem I see with this is that it is going to be rife with points of view and different interpretations. We already have problems with such facts as MitD being responsible for the teleportation (if it was teleportation), it would only be worse if we add your angle. For example, in my opinion, Xykon is weird about a lot of stuff. He keeps MitD in the darkness out of a sense of drama (explicitedly stated) and not because it is powerful (IMO). I doubt Xykon would keep around a monster more powerful than himself - he would kill it and raise it, as he did with the dragon. But regardless, this tell us very little about MitD that wasn't already covered under the "beautiful/horrible", really.

Also, I think you give MitD too much importance in Xykon's schemes. MitD has never featured prominently or otherwise except as part of the obligatory monologue section of Xykon's denounment back when he was being a clichèd villain. Since then, MitD has not once been part of any of their plans. Thus, all the indicators you mention about his powers and so on are basically reduced to Xykon's idea of revealing him at the height of his speech back in Dorukan's dungeon. Given all that has happened since, it really is a single point from which to try to obtain any significant conclusion. Which is likely why you didn't really point your finger at anything. Basically, any semi-powerful monster would do. After all, it is with Xykon and Redcloak because they had the chance to pick him up at a circus. Hardly something that they planned in detail - more a spur of the moment idea, and certainly nowhere near central to their gate plans.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf