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Thread: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
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2009-06-11, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
PEACH stands for Please ? And Comment Here...right?
On to the prestige class.
Aspect of Pun-Pun
Long ago, there was a kobold wizard named Pun-Pun. By using some loopholes and several sourcebooks, he became mightier than any god. He retreated from reality, but still affects the Material Plane as wished.
Some kobold scholars are aware of this entity, and ask him for aid. These are the Aspects of Pun-Pun.
Requirements: Kobold, Knowledge (history) 10 ranks, Knowledge (any other) 5 ranks, able to cast 2nd-level spells.
HD:d10
Skills: 4+Int mod/level; all skills class skills.
Good saves: Fort, Will
BaB: Good
Profciencies: None gained
{table=head]Level|BaB|Fort/Ref/Will|Benifets|Spellcasting
1|+1|+2/+0/+2|-|+1 level of previous spellcasting class
2|+2|+3/+0/+3|Bonus feat|-
3|+3|+3/+1/+3|Ability|-
4|+4|+4/+1/+4|Ability score bonus|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5|+5|+4/+1/+4|Bonus feat|-
6|+6|+5/+2/+5|-|-
7|+7|+5/+2/+5|Ability|-
8|+8|+6/+2/+6|Bonus feat, Ability score bonus|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
9|+9|+6/+3/+6|-|-
10|+10|+7/+3/+7|-|
11|+11|+7/+3/+7|Bonus Feat, Ability|-
12|+12|+8/+4/+8|Ability score bonus|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]
Bonus feat: This can be any feat.
Ability: This may be an ability from any class that is gained at a level equal to or lower than 1/2 your character level or 1/2 your ranks in you highest Knowledge skill, whichever is less, plus your Inteligence modifier.If it is from a prestige class, you must meet all requirements for that prestigge class. Alternativly, it can be an ability from a monster that has hit dice not exceeding 1/2 your character level or ranks in your highest Knowledge skill (whichever is less)+you Int modifier-10 (minimum 3). As a third option, you may gain a natural attack; see the table below. The ability must be approved by Pun-Pun, who is fine with anything that does not allow power like his (e.g, broken abilities like the Sarruk's (sp?) Manipulate Form).
Aspect of Pun-Pun Natural Attacks
Spoiler{table]Bite|1d4
2 claws|1d3
Gore|1d4
Slam|1d4
Sting|1d4
2 tentacles|1d3
4 tentacles|1d2[/table]
Ability score bonus: Increase any ability score by 1.
So, what do you think?
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2009-06-11, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly = PEACH
One thing you should know about putting that PEACH tag in your title is that people are going to critique it, and while noone's likely to be mean about it, they are going to be honest.
First off, I'd advise checking out the Guide to Homebrewing. It's an extremely useful guide and even shows you how to make those neat little tables.
Now, I'm not sure how good of an idea this class is. If it's a joke-class sort of thing, it's probably fine, but since Pun-Pun is a build requiring huge amounts of meta-knowledge and general cheese...well, let's just say that I personally wouldn't want any player having a Prestige Class that makes the Pun-Pun build "real" in the world.
That being said, the class is very bland. There are no class features at level 1, and the ability to pick any feat (do they need to meet all prerequisites?) as well as any class feature (even though it's restricted, the section is confusing and poorly worded) is just asking to be abused.
Interestingly, the prerequisites have no mechanical basis in the class, by which I mean, why do you need 2nd-level spells if the class can't cast spells at all? Also, making the class a traditional 10-level PrC would help you to squeeze some of the class features together, eliminating some of those dead levels.
But, yeah, hope this review doesn't come off as overly harsh (it wasn't meant to be), but I think the class could work...with a lot of effort.Last edited by Lappy9000; 2009-06-11 at 11:37 AM.
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2009-06-11, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Thanks!
One thing you should know about putting that PEACH tag in your title is that people are going to critique it, and while noone's likely to be mean about it, they are going to be honest.
First off, I'd advise checking out the Guide to Homebrewing. It's an extremely useful guide and even shows you how to make those neat little tables.
Now, I'm not sure how good of an idea this class is. If it's a joke-class sort of thing, it's probably fine, but since Pun-Pun is a build requiring huge amounts of meta-knowledge and general cheese...well, let's just say that I personally wouldn't want any player having a Prestige Class that makes the Pun-Pun build "real" in the world.
That being said, the class is very bland. There are no class features at level 1, and the ability to pick any feat (do they need to meet all prerequisites?) as well as any class feature (even though it's restricted, the section is confusing and poorly worded) is just asking to be abused.
Interestingly, the prerequisites have no mechanical basis in the class, by which I mean, why do you need 2nd-level spells if the class can't cast spells at all?
Also, making the class a traditional 10-level PrC would help you to squeeze some of the class features together, eliminating some of those dead levels.
But, yeah, hope this review doesn't come off as overly harsh (it wasn't meant to be), but I think the class could work...with a lot of effort.
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2009-06-11, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Here's my two cents, with a table for extra helpfulness:
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+1|+2|+2|+2|Bonus Feat
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+3|Ability
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3|Bonus Feat
4th|+4|+4|+4|+4|Ability Score Bonus
5th|+5|+4|+4|+4|Bonus Feat
6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|Ability
7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Bonus Feat
8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6|Ability Score Bonus
9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Bonus Feat
10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7|Ability[/table]
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2009-06-11, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
You do realize that this class is completely, utterly, and totally broken, right?
"Okay, at Character Level 14, I pick up Violet Veil as my Ability. I already picked up the Rapid Abjuration from Abjurant Champion earlier, since it was just a first level ability. Now I can drop Violet Veils as Swift Actions. I win."
Seriously, this class gets to cherry pick from the classes with the most broken abilities (those which are only five-level PrC's) easier. At 5th character level, I get my first ability (3 levels of Cleric + 2 of this class). I choose Divine Reach from the Heirophant class (a 1st level ability for that class). Now I get to apply Reach Spell for free to all divine casting.
No. Just... no. Not as anything other than a complete joke.
The only way to do this is to ban PrC's from being emulated. Even then, however, it's still broken depending on which sources you allow.Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2009-06-11 at 01:03 PM.
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2009-06-11, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Ahh...you meant a table with the saves/BaB on it!
Nice varient, but I think it might be too powerful.
Say, why doesn't someone try comparing it?
Notice the bolded parts. I built that in to avoid people making overpowered builds. (along with no class feature at 1st level and losing spellcasting).
Touche.
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2009-06-11, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-11, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Broken by virtue of being too open-ended. Saying that Pun-Pun will decide if you can have the ability or not doesn't help the DM decide at all. I think you should give a listing of specific abilities at each interval that the player could choose from. Example:
Level 3: Sneak attack +1d6, rage 1/day, scent, 1d4 damage bite
Level 7: Sneak attack +2d6, greater rage 1/day, fast healing 3, two 1d6 damage claws
Level 11: Sneak attack +3d6, greater rage 3/day, pounce, three 1d4 damage tentacles
Quick list, but you get the idea.
If you're going to require casting spells to enter the class, you should probably advance spellcasting. If you worship Pun-Pun, you don't stop when you take the class. If you follow in his footsteps as a wizard, you don't stop your studies when you take the class. I don't think that the fluff fits at all.
Not advancing spellcasting is like making a PrC require Power Attack, Cleave, and Leap Attack, and then not advancing BAB. You don't have to advance the spellcasting at every level, but if you have to nerf it that badly by requiring spellcasting and then not advancing it, your other class features are definitely unbalanced.
Which, by the way, they are. I know Pun-Pun had great all-around saves and HD and skill points and everything, but you're making a class for a follower. If you took out all the class features as-is, it might be balanced. I think you'd probably prefer to tone down the other aspects?
If you put {table=head] instead of just {table] at the start of the table, it turns your first row into a heading and looks better. Also good to bold that row.
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2009-06-11, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Why? Broken=too good=Pun-Pun no likey.
I think you should give a listing of specific abilities at each interval that the player could choose from. Example:
Level 3: Sneak attack +1d6, rage 1/day, scent, 1d4 damage bite
Level 7: Sneak attack +2d6, greater rage 1/day, fast healing 3, two 1d6 damage claws
Level 11: Sneak attack +3d6, greater rage 3/day, pounce, three 1d4 damage tentacles
Quick list, but you get the idea.
If you're going to require casting spells to enter the class, you should probably advance spellcasting. If you worship Pun-Pun, you don't stop when you take the class. If you follow in his footsteps as a wizard, you don't stop your studies when you take the class. I don't think that the fluff fits at all.
Not advancing spellcasting is like making a PrC require Power Attack, Cleave, and Leap Attack, and then not advancing BAB. You don't have to advance the spellcasting at every level, but if you have to nerf it that badly by requiring spellcasting and then not advancing it, your other class features are definitely unbalanced.
Which, by the way, they are. I know Pun-Pun had great all-around saves and HD and skill points and everything, but you're making a class for a follower. If you took out all the class features as-is, it might be balanced. I think you'd probably prefer to tone down the other aspects?
If you put {table=head] instead of just {table] at the start of the table, it turns your first row into a heading and looks better. Also good to bold that row.
In your example ("making a PrC require Power Attack, Cleave, and Leap Attack, and then not advancing BAB"), that is something I have never seen done.
Whoawhoawhoa. Hold on. I missed this. How exactly do you plan to get 10 ranks in Knowledge (history) at level 3 cleric?
Everyone assumes that this is overpowered. But who would disagree that the kobolds are weak?
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2009-06-11, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
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2009-06-12, 02:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
This is true.
Fax Celestis has a class, the Medium that gets this ability that may be sort of what you're looking for:
Spiritual Emulation (Su): At 20th level, a medium can call upon the experiences of the slain and departed to grant him some of their abilities. As a full round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, she may spend power points equal to or less than her medium level, as well as expending her psionic focus. Upon doing this, she may temporarily gain one specific class feature from another class, of a maximum level up to one-half the power points spent on this ability. For instance, a medium that spent fourteen power points on this ability could gain a class feature from any other base class of up to seventh level. This is only for that one class ability, not the whole class feature progression. Continuing the example, the medium could select the Sneak Attack ability of a 7th level rogue, the Resist Nature's Lure ability of a 4th level druid, or the Bonus Feat gained by a 6th level fighter. In all instances where the class feature acquired mentions levels of the granting class, the medium can treat her medium levels as levels in that class for determining the strength of effects. She cannot gain spellcasting, manifesting, or a similar ability: these features require years of training and more power than the spirits she works with can provide. Further, she cannot gain any class feature that requires some sort of recharging (such as rest, restoration, or merely waiting). This temporary ability lasts for a number of rounds equal to the medium's Intelligence modifier. While a medium is using this ability, she cannot regain psychic focus.
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2009-06-13, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
"Broken" means game-breaking. It's impossible to say, "Ability A is going to be broken in all campaigns." The only universally broken ability (Manipulate Form) is specifically mentioned in the entry. An ability that lets you deal +20d% damage on melee attacks would be great in a combat-heavy game, but in a diplomat-ey campaign it would be useless, and its use is limited in a campaign full of fast/flying monsters with ranged attacks that can just stay out of melee range (like, I don't know, DRAGONS). If you don't think you can tell what's broken, you shouldn't be DMing. And, if that's the case, you don't have to allow it. This is for a campaign with an experienced DM.
More like giving a sorcerer a spell list. Your way is like telling the sorcerer to invent his own spells, with no guidelines for doing so.
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2009-06-13, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
*Poof*
Nope. That would be a sorcerer who can take any spell in the rulebooks. Instead, he's limited to Arcane, and the Arcane spells that aren't Wizard specific (of which there are one or two).
Besides, any class that's going to lead to arguments between the players and the DM, or that requires heavy thought to determine the complete ramifications of, should probably be revised to the point where this is no longer an issue. I know I'd only put that much work into allowing class where the class in question adds a great amount to a player's character...not one that appears to be strictly humorous in nature (Aspect of Pun-Pun? It currently sells itself as something not be allowed or taken seriously. I'd recommend a name change). Also, the formula for determining abilities is FAR to complex for a D&D formula, and the number of books needed for this class is staggering.
Here's a list of some abilities which aren't broken, but are often to powerful, and would lead to Player/DM arguments (most players don't always bow down to rule 0 without some conflict).
-Regeneration
-Magic Immunity
-Damage Reduction (why take Damage Reduction 5/magic if I can get, say, Damage Reduction 10/-)
-Quickness
-Cannibalize (from the Dusk Giant in MMIV) [Free hit dice? Sure!]
I'm stopping there, but the list goes on...and on...and on. So I also recommend a new flavor for the class, and a list of selectable abilities. Personally, however, I see no reason to have this class when the Chameleon (do everything), Factotum (emulate everything) and Master of Many Forms (be everything) already exist. With those options already in place, this seems a class only for getting obscene power. Which, I understand, is not the point...but that's how it conveys itself to me.Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2009-06-13 at 09:11 AM.
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2009-06-13, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
1st of all, please don't use strange colors/fonts in all of the words in your posts. That makes things more complicated for me.
A sorceror with maybe a half-dozen spells, sure.
]Besides, any class that's going to lead to arguments between the players and the DM, or that requires heavy thought to determine the complete ramifications of, should probably be revised to the point where this is no longer an issue. I know I'd only put that much work into allowing class where the class in question adds a great amount to a player's character...not one that appears to be strictly humorous in nature (Aspect of Pun-Pun? It currently sells itself as something not be allowed or taken seriously. I'd recommend a name change). Also, the formula for determining abilities is FAR to complex for a D&D formula, and the number of books needed for this class is staggering.
Here's a list of some abilities which aren't broken, but are often to powerful, and would lead to Player/DM arguments (most players don't always bow down to rule 0 without some conflict).
-Regeneration
-Magic Immunity
-Damage Reduction (why take Damage Reduction 5/magic if I can get, say, Damage Reduction 10/-)
-Quickness
-Cannibalize (from the Dusk Giant in MMIV) [Free hit dice? Sure!]
I'm stopping there, but the list goes on...and on...and on. So I also recommend a new flavor for the class, and a list of selectable abilities. Personally, however, I see no reason to have this class when the Chameleon (do everything), Factotum (emulate everything) and Master of Many Forms (be everything) already exist. With those options already in place, this seems a class only for getting obscene power. Which, I understand, is not the point...but that's how it conveys itself to me.
B. I'm trying to make a class with the potential for a small fraction of Pun-Pun's power; e.g. rules from flavor. Give a good flavor suggestion, and I'll be more specific on the abilities (it'd help if you gave me a list of suggestions).
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2009-06-13, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
What you're basically attempting to do is make a class who can alter reality as will - not in any specific manner, just alter reality, since that is the essence of the Punmaster - and yet keep it balanced.
One of these does the trick already without a whole lot (in the cleric's case, without any) flavor alteration. And that's staying only in the free materials. Chameleon and Factotum and Incarnates can do a lot of the other stuff. None of them are weak, exactly, but mutual respect among the gaming group generally solves most problems of overpowered status anyway.
Prestige Classes primarily exist to provide a mechanical solution to a wide concept that has poor mechanical implementation without the class, or to provide a very specific set of abilities for a very specific organization or discipline. Your class is, at current, neither.
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2009-06-13, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
GLARING FACTUAL ERROR: Kobold wasn't a wizard! Originally he was a friggin' Psion, of all things. Then, I believe a sorcerer but could be wrong.
His latest incarnation is a first level paladin.
Why it's broken: 3 level dip in this class (at the cost of 2 caster levels) in exchange for grabbing the capstone of some 10 level prestige class you qualify for. Then pick another prestige class with good class abilities to take instead.
Why it's broken #2: Let's take, say, Incantrix. Take 10 levels of Incantrix. Then take its capstone again as a 2 level dip. I only said Incantrix as an example, but getting a class feature twice? You can get more than one sneak attack, so why can't you get "every metamagic feat is reduced" twice? Or "dex mod is added to melee damage" twice? Or whatever.
Summary: Found the class boring, and its abilities poorly thought out. Come on, if you're going to make a tribute to Pun Pun make it Fun Fun.
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2009-06-13, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-13, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
i can't stand pun pun and anything related to him. but i am posting here to point something out:
you asked for a critique, and as lappy said in the very beginning, people are going to give it to you. obviously you can take or leave their advice as you choose, but when every other poster on the thread says it is broken, and you are the only one that thinks it isn't, something is wrong.
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2009-06-14, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Pun-Pun is a wizard in the version I saw him in. I was unaware of the others. Mind if I see said paladin?
Why it's broken: 3 level dip in this class (at the cost of 2 caster levels) in exchange for grabbing the capstone of some 10 level prestige class you qualify for. Then pick another prestige class with good class abilities to take instead.
Originally Posted by Me, in the OP
Why it's broken #2: Let's take, say, Incantrix. Take 10 levels of Incantrix. Then take its capstone again as a 2 level dip. I only said Incantrix as an example, but getting a class feature twice? You can get more than one sneak attack, so why can't you get "every metamagic feat is reduced" twice? Or "dex mod is added to melee damage" twice? Or whatever.
Summary: Found the class boring, and its abilities poorly thought out. Come on, if you're going to make a tribute to Pun Pun make it Fun Fun.
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2009-06-15, 06:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Ingredients
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Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2009-06-15, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Max out Know (Religion), take Skill Focus (Know Religion) as your feat, get some other kobolds to Aid Another your know religion check while you use a library or etc. to get a +6 bonus to your +10 Know (Religion) check, say some fiend's name three times, he shows up and gives you a candle of three wishes, you begin making a couple wishes that end with you having the lovely broken ability, etc. etc.
The paladin is important because the fiend loves corrupting paladins.
WHY DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THE LIMITATION?!?!
If you are at least 20th level at the time, sure. If you are a wizard 7/Aspect of Pun-Pun 3 (the lowest level you can get the Ability class feature), you need an Int of 20 or more. Doable, but requires you to roll an 18 in Int at 1st level and to put both ability bonuses from level in Int.
0) Some people use point buy. 18 is not hard to get with point buy.
1) Qualify for the PrC. Not hard to do most of the time.
2) 8 ranks in a knowledge skill. Doable by level 5.
3) 22 int, which is EASY at level 9 (you can't really get in earlier than 7, as you mentioned, but you then have 2 levels to go) fuels you to get a class feature from a 10 level prestige class without increasing the skill ranks past 8. You may have forgotten that you get magic items, like, oh, "Headband of Intellect." Or a dragonwrought kobold who is also a Great Wyrm who has a lovely +3 to int.
4) Enjoy a 10 level prestige class's capstone at ~lvl 10!
5) Use the bonus feat from Aspect to help qualify for your next PrC.
Disadvantage: Full spell level behind a 'straight' wizard.
Advantage: Incantrix capstone.
Okay, that requires a near-epic build(Wizard 5*/Incantrix 10/Aspect of Pun-Pun 3), at least 17 ranks in a Knowledge skill**. (*Assuming a 5th-leve wizard can take Incantrix;**Not that important, but worth considering.)
First of all, nice pun-pun on Pun-Pun. Also, why is it boring? Poorly thought out, you explained. Boring? No.
In short, you're left with a 3 level long sludge in order to get an ability you really shouldn't have, then you drop out. A bonus feat is not exciting. +1 to a stat is not exciting. +1 caster level with d10 HD is not exciting. A class ability you shouldn't have IS exciting, but not because of this class. Because of another class. A caster-only prestige class with 12 levels with only +4 to caster level... No one's going to make it that far.
Ever.
In short: I suggest you make it open to all kobolds somehow, drop the 'any class feature EVAR!', make it useful but not gamebreaking for any kobold class, and make up your own awesome class abilities. Basically make a separate list of crazy weird and useful things that they can choose from every level, and maybe a class feature they can advance (ie: sneak attack AND bonus fighter feats [because kobold fighters are teh suq], spell casting progression, etc.).
Then your spellcasting Pun Pun worshipper can still be a spellcaster but now has tentacle attacks and a gore attack, as well as permanent spiderclimb and can make 60' jumps. The kobold fighter has totally beefed up and a statue of ice follows him around all the time, then when it dies it reforms and goes back to following him. Also he has three arms and Powerful Build (while maintaining Slight Build somehow) and three-hands a Greatsword. Also he cries POISON. So on and so forth; make the kobolds totally bizarre aberration-esque vysages of metagamery.
Actually, that sounds like a delightfully fun list to create.
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2009-06-15, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Ok, I just have to chime in here and say that to me, dropping the "any ability EVAR" part of this class would completely destroy the point. Also, I think that there is nothing wrong with the GM having to sit down and do some serious thinking when a particular PC levels up per se. The totally bizzare mix-and-match of abilities that have no thematic connection is very much key to the feel of this class, as is the fact that it has NO connection to the personality of the character taking it.
That having been said, a rule about "No getting an ability at a character level more that 2 lower than you could otherwise have gotten it." MIGHT be good to keep the capstone grabbing under control...[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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2009-06-15, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
The amount of thinking a GM potentially has to do to get this class to work consistently is akin to making your own class. This thing is grossly underpowered in the hands of the unimaginative and grossly overpowered in the hands of the clever and persistent. That's about as broken as you can get.
That having been said, a rule about "No getting an ability at a character level more that 2 lower than you could otherwise have gotten it." MIGHT be good to keep the capstone grabbing under control...
If this is to be a real class, he will have to actually make up his own abilities and place them in a pool to be balanced.
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2009-06-15, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Possibly put it as the capstone instead? Any ability EVAR could be good times at epic or near-epic levels (when no one cares any more). Minimum level 7 to get in, 12 levels, so you're at 19 or higher to get the capstone.
Not the best fix, but that feel is still there.
The trick will be to make the other levels worth taking.
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2009-06-15, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Gender
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
You can't leave class features up to DM fiat, which is exactly what this class does. You have no rules spelled out for what can and cannot be taken. It needs to be explicitly stated what is "broken" and what is not. One person's broken is another person's balanced (see ToB; batman).
Also, it's a 12-level class with 3 completely dead levels. Dead levels are bad.Proudly without a signature for 5 years. Wait... crap.
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2009-06-15, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
And two of them are consecutive!
This class would be an absolute crawl to get through.
Pun Pun is not about crawling ever so slowly to get to class features the DM won't allow you have anyways.
He's about REAL ULTIMATE POWER, NOW.
Also, I think I'm going to make my Initiate of Pun Pun prestige class off of my ideas if you don't find a way to make this awesome. Because that really does seem like a fun class to make.
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2009-06-15, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Honestly, because it seems like a cop-out. I'm probably beating a Dead Horse with a +8 Vorpal Keen Greatsword, but you need to specify the "ability" thing better (I still think my earlier suggestion was perfectly valid) and to squash the class into 10 levels to make the progression flow better.
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2009-06-15, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Near Atlanta,GA USA
- Gender
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
FWIW there were more limitations than just "GM approval", and I suggested even more... the one thing that DOESN'T fit the class is any sort of finite list.
[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
Extended Signature
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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2009-06-15, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
Agreed. On all points.
A. That's true, but I don't think a DM unable to tell what's broken and what isn't should be using homebrew. B. ??? You answered yourself! I can't make a list of broken/not broken ablities! Fly at will is great, unless you are consistantly in tiny dungeon rooms! True Strike at will is probably broken, but maybe not if combat is a rarity! It varies. C. Dead levels are there because I think that, without some, the class will be too apealing.
Go ahead. Mind if Istealuse some of your ideas?
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2009-06-15, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Aspect of Pun-Pun (PEACH)
A DM unable to tell what's broken or not shouldn't be using homebrew, but the homebrew shouldn't require him to be doing all of the work, either. I can drive my car without my left side mirror, I've done it after some kid broke it with a rock, and if you're not able to you probably shouldn't be driving.
The car should still have a left side mirror.