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2009-06-13, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Lawson, Sydney
How does the Bard stack up with the other full casters out of the picture? [3.5]
I frequently read about how underpowered the Bard is, so puzzle me this:
How would you rate the Bard in a core-only environment if all other full-casters are disallowed (and full manifesters are disallowed too, just in case anyone still believes that psionics are core)?Last edited by Ogremindes; 2009-06-14 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Changed title from "Out of Curiosity..."
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2009-06-13, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Gender
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5]
Since they'd be the premier buffers and healers in D&D in that scenario, bards would be pretty damn important. You'd only want one in a group, however (probably with a paladin or ranger for backup heals).
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2009-06-13, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5]
Bard without full casters?
So, rated against Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger and Rogue...
Monk is worse, undoubtedly. Rogue is better. Barbarian is likely better. Ranger is better. Not sure on Fighter. I hate Paladin, so they go down too.
I still wouldn't want to play one, but you might need one.Last edited by sofawall; 2009-06-13 at 11:27 PM.
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2009-06-13, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
Bards aren't really underpowered. They look underpowered against something like, say, a Druid, but that's not because Bards are underpowered, it's because Druids are overpowered.
Bards are actually fairly balanced. They start slow, like most arcane casters, but get pretty good once you hit level 6 or so. Their spellcasting is okay, their skills are second only to a Rogue, and Inspire Courage can be pretty good if you take the time to buff it.
If all other full-casters were disallowed, Bards would become the only full casters, and thus at higher levels would be the most powerful characters in the game.
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2009-06-14, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
Yeah, Bards are good. They do best if there are either more or less than 4 players, and with more splatbooks. I wouldn't play one core-only(but I hate core-only anyways), but they are pretty nice even then. They can fill multiple party roles if you are missing characters, or they can buff the party to high heaven if you've got extras. A Bard in a party with a Druid, for example, is a scary combo.
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I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-06-14, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
- St. Louis
- Gender
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
Did anyone else get the reference?
Bards are actually pretty fun. I think they would do well in the enviornment you suggested...in fact, they would become an absolute nessessity in every adventuring party.
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2009-06-14, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- where the wind blows
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
Bard is my favourite class in 3.5, and I played it more than anything else. Though, I'm never good at crunch, so I never know if it's underpowered.
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2009-06-14, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
So, really stupid meme aside, check my sig for the Joker Bard for how a 'mere' Bard can challenge even a Batman Wizard.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
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2009-06-14, 12:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Lawson, Sydney
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2009-06-14, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
Core only, Bards aren't terrible but aren't great either. With all splatbooks allowed, they become absolutely insane buffing machines that can send an entire party's damage output through the roof, and after the first round or two can keep casting significant battlefield control spells at the same time.
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2009-06-14, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- The Elemental Pole of Oil
- Gender
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2009-06-14, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Location
- USA
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
They hold their own. They're not flashy, can't do insane amounts of damage or throw around a great deal of magic, but any party they join becomes stronger by more than just one character's worth. If you're good at teamwork, you'd probably be good at playing a bard. And if your party gets any sort of RP challenges, your bard suddenly becomes the most powerful member of the party. Diplomacy can get pretty broken with high enough checks. At high levels, his biggest challenge tends to be not being trampled by hordes of enthralled fangirls...
Last edited by Callista; 2009-06-14 at 01:00 AM.
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2009-06-14, 01:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Lawson, Sydney
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2009-06-14, 03:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Lawson, Sydney
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2009-06-14, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Out of Curiosity... [3.5 Bard]
It can be adapted to be a PC as well. In fact, in some ways it works better as a PC because Diplomancy works better PC vs NPC. Perform: Oratory + Mass Suggestion = you own this town. Have fun.
Want to screw over the BBEG? Diplomance his allies against him. You win without ever having to go on the stupid adventure in the first place.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora