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    Default Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    “You watch my back, I’ll pick the lock”
    “You pick the lock, I’ll watch your back”.

    -Chal “Fingers” and Randy “Nine Toes”, Dual Daggers
    The concept of the “Partner in Crime” is so universal it has entered standard language. However, there are some for whom the term literally applies. In dim alleys and bandit lairs everywhere, people form partnerships, whether to gain a companion, a skill set that complements ones own, another dagger on your side if things get rough, or just another set of hands with which to carry loot. Most of these partnerships are temporary things, often falling apart at the first conflict of interest, some of them flourish and prosper into a true working relationship, such teams become highly efficient in all aspects of their work, from breaking and entering, to fighting when a job goes bad.
    Dual Dagger
    Prerequisites
    At least 8 ranks in one skill
    3d6 Sneak Attack
    Alignment: Must not be directly opposed with the alignment of their partner on either axis.
    Special: Must take this class with a partner who takes it at the same time. The partners must spend at least a week together in intensive training.
    Dual Dagger
    Hit Die: D6
    Skills Per Level: 5+int
    {table=head]Level|Base AttackBonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Two-on-one +1
    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Theive’s Cant, Here, Take This, Sneak Attack +1d6

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    | Two-on-one +2, Expert Cooperation.

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Lingering Attack, Sneak Attack +2d6

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Hey, Get Up!, Two-on-one +3, Ultimate Flank

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Move as One, Sneak Attack +3d6
    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Two-on-one +4

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    | Sneak Attack +4d6

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Two-on-one +5

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Of one Mind, Sneak Attack +5d6 [/table]

    Class Features:

    Partners: If a Dual Dagger get’s separated from his partner, or if the partner dies and cannot be resurrected, they may train with a new partner who has at least one level in Dual Dagger. However, if the partners are of different Dual Dagger levels, they only get the class features available to the one with fewer Dual Dagger levels. This does not apply to their Sneak Attack class feature.
    Two-on-one: A pair of Dual Dagger’s become very adept at fighting the same foe simultaneously. When both partners flank the same target they gain an additional +1 bonus to attack and damage. This bonus increases by one every other Dual Dagger level.
    Thieves’ Cant: At second level, the partners become so familiar with one another that they can communicate to each other Via a shorthand made up of expressions, gestures, in-jokes, and unfinished words. If two partners wish to communicate to one another, they may use this odd code. The partners understand each other perfectly, but anybody else must make a DC (15+ Dual Dagger level) sense motive check to understand them.
    Here, Take this: At second level the partners reach a level of coordination that allows them to, as an immediate action, pass a small object to their partner, provided the partner is within 20 feet and has at least one hand free. The object is immediately available.
    Expert Cooperation: At third level the partners reach a level of rapport that allows them to work cooperatively on skill checks. When one partner assists another with a skill check, they receive a circumstance bonus equal to their Dual Dagger’s class level, rather than the regular +2 bonus they would normally receive.
    Lingering Attack: When one partner sneak attacks a target, that target is considered Flat Footed against the other partner until the end of the next round.
    Hey, Get up!: At Fifth level the bond between the partners grows stronger. If one partner is reduced to less than zero hit points, the other can take a full round action to put them back on their feet, giving them 1d10+Charisma Modifier temporary hit points. These hit points last a number of rounds equal to the average class level of the partners. A given team can only do this once per day.
    Ultimate Flank: At fifth level, the partners become very adapt at flanking an opponent. They need not be on opposite sides of a foe to flank them, in addition, for the purpose of flanking a foe with improved uncanny dodge, the partners have an effective rogue level equal to the sum of both partners rogue levels, plus the sum of their Dual Dagger levels.
    Move as one: At Sixth level, the Partners reach an instinctive level of understanding that lets them move and attack simultaneously. Both partners may use the higher of their two initiative scores.
    Of One Mind: At tenth level, the partners have spent so much time and trained together so much that they have picked up talents from each other. A Dual Dagger may use the base saving throws or skill ranks of their partner. In addition, they develop a level of rapport that means they are in constant unconscious communication. If the partners are within 20 feet, and one partner succeeds on a sense motive check or makes a will save against a mind-affecting or illusion spell or effect, both partners do. If the spell is single target, like Suggestion, it fails immediately provided the partners are within 20 feet of one another.


    Homebrewer's Notes

    As you may have guessed, this is a follow up to my Synchronized Swordsman PRC. This time I decided to focus on Rogues rather than fighters. It's a work in progress, so I'm looking for input. The big thing that bugs me is the name, Dual Daggers dosn't work as well as Synchronized Swordsman. Also, I wish the capstone was somewhat flashier. I like "Of One mind", it's good and it fits the class, but It's a passive bonus which is kind of boring. So yeah, Please comment and suggest.
    Last edited by BRC; 2009-06-24 at 04:02 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    Bump. Come on, I know you're reading this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    First thing to say: I like this idea, but what if there're more than two people in a party wanting the class?

    Obviously, even two people requires enough people or the right kind of campaign. Makes an excellent NPC class too
    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post

    Partners: If a Dual Dagger get’s separated from his partner, or if the partner dies and cannot be resurrected, they may train with a new partner who has at least one level in Dual Dagger. However, if the partners are of different Dual Dagger levels, they only get the class features available to the one with fewer Dual Dagger levels. This does not apply to their Sneak Attack class feature.
    I don't like this as much, I feel the one with the more class levels should still be able to grant the bonuses to their partner, but not get them from the partner. (Or get them, but not grant them, dpending on your preference)

    But I don't think it'd come up often so *meh*
    Two-on-one: Like it.
    Thieves’ Cant: Could the DC be partly based on bluff ranks (maybe 10+bluff-mod+class lvl) because as is, it's possible that just using bluff could work better than using the class ability.

    Expert Cooperation: Makes sense to me.
    Lingering Attack: Oooh, if they can get off one sneak attack they can both sneak attack forever?
    Hey, Get up!: A full-round action? I'm not sure this'd get used over magical healing. Why not a standard action?
    Move as one: This is very cool.
    Of One Mind: Definitely a powerful capstone.

    Some more possible bonuses (especially if you remove/move something):
    Distracting feint; you may feint as a move action (or as a swift action if you have Improved Feint). You do not gain any bonuses from this feint; instead the opponent is flat-footed for your partner's next attack.
    Improved Move as One: Not only do you and your partner act on the same initiative you may take your actions in any order (ie. you may make a standard action, followed by his move action, followed by your move, then his standard)
    Uncanny Dodge: I just think this class should have it as some point. Maybe only when close to the partner though?
    Have This: You may pass, or throw, your partner any useful item/weapon as an immediate action. Their catching it is also an immediate action. Weapons or tools thus passed are immediately usable.
    Last edited by Kingreaper; 2009-06-23 at 09:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    It looks cool, your Synchronized Swordsman PRC was great, I just hope to see you tob this one two.

    Now if it where me I would make it to where the Sneak attack pre req would be at 2d6 instead of the 3d6 as noted above for the TOB version and have Shadow Hand be the pre req style, to get in with. Now for the styles that is can pick from as it goes up in lvl I would say Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, and Tiger Claw.
    Last edited by LunarWolfPrime; 2009-06-23 at 10:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    I like it, a little barren in the later levels but I assume that's because its not yet finished. I read your Synchronized Swordsman PrC when you were brewing it earlier, and I think this is a much cleaner approach than that (probably due to your experience from it) so well done there. Also, might be nice to link it for all those who didn't see it?

    A few other points, you don't state what Improved Aid is, and the Move as one write up isn't in bold. It also might be nice to have them spaced out a little (a line between each ability), it just makes it more readable is all.

    Anyway, my opinion:

    Two-on-one: Nice scaling ability, but I personally feel its a little weak in that they have to flank their target, considering some things are hard to flank or can't be flanked thats a lot of power lost right there. Either add some more ways to help in gaining a flank, or change it to just if they strike the same foe (or buff up the damage/advantage a little).

    Thieves’ Cant: Nice ability, but I agree with Kingreaper in that it should incorporate a bluff check, possibly just say its a bluff check +dual daggers level for anyone else to understand, but they always succeed.

    Expert Cooperation: Nice simple boost which makes sense.

    Lingering Attack: Very very powerful, with the two round duration (I assume in addition to the same round) this effectively lets them forever SA anything regardless of placement forever due to the chance to renew it even after a missed round. I wouldn't say to remove it, but I might change the duration to one round (in addition to the same round), and point out that this is also unlikely to make them attempt to flank opponents for the Two-on-one bonus as its pitiful in comparison.

    Hey, Get up!: Logical, works, not much to say here. Maybe give additional moral bonus to saves against massive damage and save-or-die spells equal to level as (standard distance limit).

    Move as one: Works nicely, simple boost overall, might be nice to add in some bonuses to cover each others movements? Maybe allow attacks caused by one to prevent AoO against the other (and hence allow them to get flanking easier). Or possibly cover each others movement, so one can hide using the other as cover?

    Of One Mind: Powerful, but I think fair reward considering the fact that two players have to burn 10 levels in being almost the same character.

    As I pointed out, flanking gained bonuses seem a little weak overall, so I'd address that by making it more potent or add in other abilities that feed off it/make it easier to obtain flanking positions.

    I love Kingreaper's Have This ability, and this should be in there early on I feel.

    Also I'd like to see something along the lines of this in there as well...
    Double Act: Any social interactions can be boosted by having both partners contribute, allowing better results and confusing their foes easier.
    Double Talk: Whenever either partner makes a bluff, diplomacy or intimidate check, the other may choose to aid them, performing the same action, and adding 1/4 of their result to the initial check.
    Bewilder: As a simultaneously move action performed by both partners, you may each make a DC 25 bluff check to cause one creature to become dazed until the end of their next round, this language dependant compulsion affect.
    Hoodwink: You may make a DC 20+level of character targeted bluff check to give your partner a bonus equal to your Dual Dagger level on any slight of hand, hide, or move silently check they make in the same round, you may continue this action the following round with a separate roll and a +1 DC check for each round you have been hoodwinking them. Failure by more than 10 causes the creature to realise your intentions (possibly causing them to attack).

    Thats my 2cp for now anyway, I'll keep an eye on the thread to see what other shineys you produce =)

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    Might I suggest the name "Synchronized Scoundrels"?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper_Monkey View Post
    Two-on-one: Nice scaling ability, but I personally feel its a little weak in that they have to flank their target, considering some things are hard to flank or can't be flanked thats a lot of power lost right there. Either add some more ways to help in gaining a flank, or change it to just if they strike the same foe (or buff up the damage/advantage a little).
    A fair point, but bear this in mind...it's a +5 bonus to attack and damage. Sure, +5 damage may not mean much...but when two sneak-attacking characters get off a flank with a total of an additional +7 to hit...well...things get bad for the victim. Quickly.

    I would, however, allow them to flank from any two squares adjacent to the foe...don't require them to be opposite each other.

    Also, change Lingering Attack to only the next attack by the teammate. That way it doesn't get so out of control, but still has a nice little kick when it activates.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    Made some changes and am considering adding the Distracting Feint ability described above. My main concern right now is with the wording on Ultimate Flank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    More appraisal later, but...

    You said you weren't happy with the name. Other options include...

    Twin Tricksters (or Thieves)
    Deadly Duo (or Deadly Deuces)

    Just throwing some ideas courtesy of a Thesaurus and alliteration.

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    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Dual Daggers (PRC) PEACH.

    Interesting, and, in a pinch, a cohort (or whatever it is that you get from the leadership feat), could be the second thief.
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