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Thread: Ender's Game

  1. - Top - End - #61
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ender's Game

    Parson is not like Ender.

    For the simple reason that Parson is not a child.

    Ender's game is completly focused on the fact that ender is a child. That he is a brilliant mind, with a child's morals in a child's body.

    Parson comes from a world with a mind possessing the exact opposite - the maturity of real life.

    Ender is a genius with a child's understanding, thrust into an adult's world with adults pulling the strings.

    Parson is a genius with a regular person's understanding of ethics and Morales, and thrust into a cartoon world of fantasy.

    Stories are not parallel at all.

    Even looking at the endgame, parson used a scorch and burn.

    Ender just dropped a bomb of anhillation on his enemy.

    Even their strategies are different. Ender is not the best strategist in Ender's game universe. Bean is. Ender is *almost* a good a military thinker as Bean, being able to come to the same conclusions much of the time. But Ender has to work for it, and to Bean he virtually breathes in strategy and blows out godly battle plans. Ender's true strength, that makes him greater than bean is his ability to connect with and fully utilize his commanders. He is capable of understanding the minds of others, and putting them in positions which pefectly suit them. If ender had failed and it had come down to bean leading, it would have been harder to win because it would be Ender's extremly good strategy excuted by perfect commanders vs Bean's nigh perfect strategy executed by good commanders. Ender was all about the human element, how to use extremly good people to maximum potency.

    This is much clearer in Ender's shadow and seqaules.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Though when Bean puts the effort in- he's an exceptional commander of adults. Shadow of the Giant stressed that all the children were egotists- hungry for victory and command.

    Ender was better able to manage the other children- but would he have done as well with real soldiers the way Bean did?
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    Sorry, most of my research comes in the form of textbooks for the various philosophy classes.

    The biggest one people harp on is the fact that the parent's knew his true gender. Children pick up on a lot more then they are generally given credit for, in the way of body language and subverbal tells. It's very unlikely that the parents could have given no hint whatsoever as to the childs true Gender.
    Then why'd they keep using Money after his work was known to be patently unreliable?
    This statement lacks verisimilitude.

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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    You want me to take a stab in the dark at their motivations?

    Money is in a position of Authority. Academic Authority is actually some of the most powerful, from a psychological point of view. Money tells them they are wrong, and they listen because to not would mean doubting the Academic Edifice which Money's Career and reputation are a part of.

    If you need proof of the power of authority, go look at the Milgram Experiment. If people are willing to kill someone just because they are told to, they'll mess up their own sons life easy.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    I'm familiar with the Milgram experiment, though I'm not certain the principles apply. The family could have very easily found a psych that encouraged Bruce's being Bruce.
    This statement lacks verisimilitude.

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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    I'm more talking about the parent's. Money's position as a Psychological Professor, and holder of a degree placed him in a position of Authority. The Parent's in turn, were converted into his actors, and ignored their knowledge and observations, simply because Money told them to.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Ender's Game

    That's who I'm speaking of, as well. I'm fairly certain another Doctor of Psychology could have been found, with equivalent or superior credentials compared to Money's, that would have encouraged penile reconstruction.


    On another note: I've just picked up "Ender in Exile" today. Almost finished. At the point where Ender's assistant, Abra,
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    discovers the remnants of the Formics' recreation of Giant's Cup scenario.
    Honestly, the Alessandra storyline was a bit unnecessary. Interesting, but unnecessary.

    What frustrates me is the lack of any closure regarding Bean's spawn on Ganges. Has Card written anything on that?

    EDIT: *headdesk* Just finished. Ignore above paragraph.
    Last edited by YesImSardonic; 2009-08-02 at 03:05 PM.
    This statement lacks verisimilitude.

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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Shadow of the Giant stressed that all the children were egotists-
    was this conclusion reached by the studies of the same folks from the university of the obvious who determined Paris, France to be the snobbiest city in the world?

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by KBF View Post
    Remember: To be a Stu, it has to be written badly. If you have to really observe the character and study the varying aspects of his story for you to notice, it's probably not a Stu. There are a lot of would-be Stu's out there that would make some good media horrifying to read/watch, but are just written so you never notice. I'd like to give a few examples but, as you can understand, it's a very... Sensitive subject. Nobody can really agree who is a Stu and who isn't. Usually if these debates occur in a very mature way, it's not a real Stu.
    this is incorrect. Dante is a Sue in the divine comedy, which is a brilliant...Epic? Story? Poem?...thing.
    Last edited by tribble; 2009-08-04 at 10:08 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Ender's Game

    The point I was trying to make, is that the fact Bean isn't especially good at commanding the other children, compared to Ender, doesn't mean Ender would be better at commanding ordinary troops than Bean, as well.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    First of all, if you haven't read Ender's Game yet, but intend to, stop right here, as this post will contain spoilers.
    What if you havnt read Enders Game but you have read Enders Shadow?

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikyon View Post
    Parson is not like Ender.

    For the simple reason that Parson is not a child.

    Ender's game is completly focused on the fact that ender is a child. That he is a brilliant mind, with a child's morals in a child's body.

    Parson comes from a world with a mind possessing the exact opposite - the maturity of real life.

    Ender is a genius with a child's understanding, thrust into an adult's world with adults pulling the strings.

    Parson is a genius with a regular person's understanding of ethics and Morales, and thrust into a cartoon world of fantasy.
    Mmm, that is a most interesting point of view.
    Though one could argue that what this means is that both are thrust into a world which is not theirs and does not share their respective moralities.

    Quote Originally Posted by sikyon View Post
    Stories are not parallel at all.
    Here, I disagree. Parallel does not mean identical, and I think enough similarities abound to warrant such a term.

    Quote Originally Posted by sikyon View Post
    Even looking at the endgame, parson used a scorch and burn.

    Ender just dropped a bomb of anhillation on his enemy.
    ...the difference being?

    Quote Originally Posted by sikyon View Post
    Even their strategies are different. Ender is not the best strategist in Ender's game universe. Bean is. Ender is *almost* a good a military thinker as Bean, being able to come to the same conclusions much of the time. But Ender has to work for it, and to Bean he virtually breathes in strategy and blows out godly battle plans. Ender's true strength, that makes him greater than bean is his ability to connect with and fully utilize his commanders. He is capable of understanding the minds of others, and putting them in positions which pefectly suit them. If ender had failed and it had come down to bean leading, it would have been harder to win because it would be Ender's extremly good strategy excuted by perfect commanders vs Bean's nigh perfect strategy executed by good commanders. Ender was all about the human element, how to use extremly good people to maximum potency.

    This is much clearer in Ender's shadow and seqaules.
    I'm not sure how this is supposed to relate to my point.
    Yes, I know that Bean is the supreme strategist, while Ender is the supreme commander. So? Your point?

    Incidentally, Parson was never called the perfect strategist, either. He's the perfect Warlord, whatever this might include.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormthorn View Post
    What if you havnt read Enders Game but you have read Enders Shadow?
    Well, that works, too, though I think Game provides better evidence for my point.
    Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-08-06 at 08:53 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Ender's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    ...the difference being?
    Ender dropped it on his enemy's home base, Parson did it on his own.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    Ender dropped it on his enemy's home base, Parson did it on his own.
    Oh, I see.
    Well, in either case the result was the obliteration of both forces, with the exception of the commander in question and his closest friends.
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