The Demons: A WW game - Night 6

[Aemoh]

*carefully avoids the FC vs Murska wagons*

*points at TwoBitWriter*

*goes back to lurking*

[Oddity]

Oddity surveys the situation. The terminal had told him to make a meaningless vote the previous day, no way he was going to trust it now. He figured that since he was shying away from technology, he might as well pull out his 'divining rods' to determine who to vote for this day.
He spent all morning walking around in circles, the rods never deciding to agree. At one point, one of them lunged at him and he thought it was going to chop his head off! (sharp rods ((no idea why))), but in the end they pointed squarely to Fleeing Coward.
(crossed over his head... whatever)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, I figured that this would be as good a time as any
(just in case the bandwagon swings the other way.)
ROLECLAIM COMING!
I am a/the Vampire (voider) and I am neutral.
I would like to offer my support for Murska, as I believe he may actually be telling the truth for once. This game definitely has many obscure roles and I wouldn't be surprised if a third killer was thrown in the mix to put everyone off. I am somewhat skeptical that Murska found another (different) voider, but I put that down to the 75% chance and also, as I mentioned, the obscurity of roles.

Hm. I didn't actually kill last night, which is odd. In fact, I used a scry. I also found a neutral baner who claims his role name is 'Clown' and he has the ability to void any and all actions, including kills, scries, voids and such, against one person per night.

Not that I have chosen a side yet, but why would any Special Forces operative decide to lynch a potentially powerful ally under the pretense of 'Murska is a wolf'. Sure I have done a tiny bit of anti-Murska rallying, but that was when he had Visible gaps in his story.
(If you see holes, fine by me, just saying I can't. There is the fact that his story is convenient, but that never always means it can't be true)
Phew, That was a long one.

[Fleeing Coward]

I think kill powers, the extra death yesterday night and the fact that he conveniently scries as a wolf is a quite a big hole for someone known to make up roles.
But that's just from the perspective of one of few villagers here that didn't seem to get a secret role.

I'd also like to remind the seer to remain careful who they reveal themselves to. The wolf alpha may very well scry as one of these "secret neutral roles" that seem to be coming out at an alarmingly high rate.

[Oddity]

Heh. I tried to stop you from doing something last night, turns out you were 'unable to act'. Duno if that means you weren't able to get on to PM an action or if simply, you didn't have a power role.

Didn't want to stop Murska because then I wouldn't be given a scrap of information to help prove he had powers.

[Fleeing Coward]

Abit hard to act since I'm a vanilla villager.
The way this game is going, I'm really beginning to think the game was broken from the start if current number of "secret roles" is any indication of actual numbers.
Seriously, I already count at least 5 secret roles including 2 that get to pick their sides (assuming everyone's telling the truth). That just shouldn't be happening in WW games in my opinion.

[Oddity]

The truth, or the roles?
Heh

[Fleeing Coward]

Both
I'm betting on Murska lying here because I agree with Jontom that the other possibility is that the game's pretty much screwed for the villagers already.

[Oddity]

'twould be a shame.
Come to think of it though, My role means I don't exactly have to care.
(Still staying neutral)

[rakkoon]

"Tis is terrible, apparently I was rong about the uneventful night. I've been going through the archives and I must sey tat Murska has done some similar action in past missions, maybe he is the best qualified to futher investigate this strange phenomenon "

Really guys, now we have something to work with :-)
Either Murska is not lying and he may turn into a Demon later or he is lying and he is a Demon.
Percentage wise I prefer those odds to people I have no idea of whether they have three arms or not.

[Oddity]

((If FC is a villie then wouldn't he be an acceptable sacrifice for a possibly friendly power-role?

Just as long as everyone doesn't adopt a policy of 'Lynch the Neutrals'.))

Oddity turns round to check if the nearby Murska is telling *all* lies.

Divinin' Rod seys no.

[Fleeing Coward]

Except there's absolutely nothing against me except a bandwagon that gained momentum quickly that Murska started on me for hating neutrals which isn't true since I targeted Murska particularly because there was a second night kill against someone other than me when I offered to be the extra night kill victim.

Like I said, I don't hate neutrals, I just never bought Murska's story for one second.

Your choices are these:
1)Lynch a villager and give the wolves an even bigger advantage than I suspect they already have
2)Lynch someone with a history of making up/ lying about roles when he's a wolf and who even if he's telling the truth this time, can turn to the wolves at any time.

I suggest that if I die to the lynch that the villagers take a real close look at those that's been pushing my bandwagon after lynching Murska.

[rakkoon]

That's what I meant with now we have something to work with, people are having opinions that can be analysed. I would be nice though if we actually managed to kill a Demon in the process of all of this....

[toasty]

Oddity... I have a hard time trusting you, funnily enough. Not that I trust Murska (erm... he's Murska? That am I'm voting for him so duh I want him dead) .

If the seer would be so kind as to scry Oddity, that would be lovely. Though telling us would be the hard part.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'd like to point out again even if Oddity scries as vampire, that's no reason to trust that he is neutral. What everyone needs to remember is that we still don't know what the wolf alpha scries as.

[smuchmuch]

Abit hard to act since I'm a vanilla villager.
The way this game is going, I'm really beginning to think the game was broken from the start if current number of "secret roles" is any indication of actual numbers.
Seriously, I already count at least 5 secret roles including 2 that get to pick their sides (assuming everyone's telling the truth). That just shouldn't be happening in WW games in my opinion.

There is a faint possibility that this game is a big practical joke (a bit like funhouse) based more on fun than balance and that almost everyone got a fancy role or item.

[toasty]

There is a faint possibility that this game is a big practical joke (a bit like funhouse) based more on fun than balance and that almost everyone got a fancy role or item.

This is a possibility that I very much like. A game where everyone has a special power would be (game breaking as well as) awesome.

[Murska]

Well, I'm willing to help the villager team since I'm un-nightkillable now, after finding the Clown. But fighting the lynch every single day?

[Fleeing Coward]

Well, I'm willing to help the villager team since I'm un-nightkillable now, after finding the Clown. But fighting the lynch every single day?

This just gets better and beter doesn't it? You now conveniently can't be night killed as well as having very useful powers to help the villagers.

Am I really the only not buying the story you're trying to sell?

[banthesun]

PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE!!! WE'RE MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE!!!

We don't have to lynch FC, he's already offered to let Muskra night kill him. Why don't we have a test of powers here? If Muskra kills him in the night, then he musn't of killed anyone yesterday, so we have a third killer or Muskra is just a demon with extra kills, which sounds even more overpowered. If FC survives the night, then Muskra's lying, either about killing someone last night or about his role. Either way, we lynch him, the narrator reveals his role. If he's revealed as a demon, then we know FC is also a demon as unlikely as that seems. In the mean time, we get another shot at who to lynch. Remember; no lynch is a win for the wolves.

On another note, what seems to be the problem with friendly night killers shooting randomly? It follows the same logic as the no lynch thing I stated above.

[TwoBitWriter]

I'll switch my vote to TwoBitWriter. There's something about that guy that I just don't trust...

[Murska]

Clown - Can send balloon animals at a person once per night, preventing any night-actions(kills, scries, etc.) from affecting him.

Go ahead, try 'em at me the next night?

[Fleeing Coward]

Clown - Can send balloon animals at a person once per night, preventing any night-actions(kills, scries, etc.) from affecting him.

Go ahead, try 'em at me the next night?

To try powers at you means to let you live today by lynching me. If you're a wolf, you know that's the best you can hope for.

I only see 2 possible situations here.

1) You're lying as usual which seems more and more likey the more you reveal about other supposed "secret roles".
2) The narrators stuffed up big time. Seriously, a second baner for one of the 5 secret roles that we seem to know about already? Might as well end the game right now because it's broken as hell.

[Jontom Xire]

On another note, what seems to be the problem with friendly night killers shooting randomly? It follows the same logic as the no lynch thing I stated above.

We had this argument before in a different game where there were lots of villagers with night kills.

If a friendly night killer shoots randomly, they have as much chance of killing an important good guy power role as they have of hitting a bad guy. They are most likely to hit a villager. Hitting a good guy power role or a villager is bad for team good. Thus using a night kill randomly is very much more likely to help team evil win.

Lynches are very much the same with a couple of important distinctions: First it is a group decision, not just some ego-maniac power tripping over having a night kill ability, and secondly it gives voting records that can be analysed to find suspicious activity which helps us to find wolves. Not voting means no suspicious activity (although choosing not to lynch is in itself a lynch vote of sorts).

On that topic, the subject of voting for a no-lynch is in itself an open debate. Some people think a day one lynch is too random, while others insist that not lynching on day one offers no voting records thus making day two just as random. Personally I'm on the fence, leaning towards preferring a no lynch on day one, but with lots of voting to analyse (not that you can analyse it much anyway).

[banthesun]

I like no-lynch day 1 just to give everyone a chance to play the game, but according to my logic a lynch is always a good thing. For my first game I made a big probablity table for wolves victory (which I promptly hid from everyone as I was the alpha), and assuming completely random voting, the wolves chances go up every day that passes without a lynch. See, if we're shooting randomly, though we are more likely to kill our own, it's the only chance to kill the wolves. The wolves however, will generally not be shooting randomly. In nearly every game, each of their kills will be a villager. Lynching randomly doesn't give us a good chance of winning, that needs analysis, but it gives us a better chance of winning.

The same logic applies for night killing as well, though if it's a one of ability, it would generally be safer to save it for a few turns.

[Fleeing Coward]

Since it looks like I'm as good as dead unless something changes.
I'm making 1 last list of who I think are the wolves this game from nothing more than gut instinct and the fact that they pointed at me

Murska
Cpt. Soup
deathpigeon
Hero 1.0

Also, in the unlikely case that Murska somehow turns out to be neutral and the game is as stuffed as I think it is:
smuchmuch would be at the top of my wolf list for pushing for my lynch followed by Murska's.

[banthesun]

I actually think it is that stuffed awesome, then again, I don't have experience with Muskra and his lies.

[Fleeing Coward]

Notice how it's mainly the newer players that are voting for me.
Guess they have to learn somehow that believing anything Murska says isn't something you should be doing

[rakkoon]

May I ask who the new players are?
This is my first game and I have absolutely no fluff, wouldn't it be logical that the more experienced players receive the more advanced roles since new guys cannot be trusted to not screw up?

Oh, and I didn't vote for you FC, I'm on the other bandwagon

[RedScholarGypsy]

Alright, I'm starting to get a little suspicious, as three neutrals sound more like a third team, with a Win Condition no one knows about. However, It seems team good also has more powered players than are known about, so balance may still be possible. Occam's razor, however, says Murska's a wolf, as does Murska's constant.

I believe in 1st turn lynches, or at least trying for them. Anyone who doesn't vote 1st day, except Darkcomet as he never does(paranoid psycho), usually gets my notice. Trying to always get the right lynch slows down the game far too much; I want to win, yes, but I want to have fun, and faster-paced games somehow end up being more fun, at least for me.

Back to the vote on hand, I know for a fact this is not the first time Murska lied about being neutral; in Civ I he did, but then he was a simple villager trying to survive until the end; he didn't claim any powers or special scrying. When Murska first told me this, I asked him what he did to Lamech to piss him off so much.

I do support most of FC's list of possible wolves, keeping open minded about Murska. Let Murska kill one of those of your choice, FC, for this night kill, since he no longer has to worry about keeping the night kill to prevent wolf blackmail. I guess you want Cpt. Soup, since he's top, though deathpidgeon is on mine for personal reasons.

Ultimately the question is how long do we let Murska live? Because right now he and his team of neutrals probably have more power than either side in terms of special abilities and freedom of win condition but not in votes. As the game progresses, I predict more and more people will want the neutrals dead, simply to exclude the possibility that they aren't wolves. Therefore, it's the neutral's best interest to help the villagers as much as possible and get the wolves early, if they have this much power via special abilities.

I say we wait until day 6. If by then we haven't gotten a wolf, we bring Murska's lynch back up for a vote; until then, table it.

[Cpt. Soup]

You say that it's in the best interests of the neutrals to side with team good but this is Murska the maverick player who doesn't often keep to the more sensible paths.It seems a bit long a wait until day six, if Murska's a wolf with a power he could do some serious damage in that time. I was more in mind of killing him the next day regardless of the outcome of FC's lynch. I'm pretty skeptical about Muska's claims, mainly the clown baner that uses party balloons, it's something that seems really out of place in what we've seen in this WW setting so far..

I was suspicious of FC because he was making alot of noise about Muska's usual crazyness. But after FC's admission about his reasons I'm wavering in that suspicion. But it's pretty late to turn the tide of this lynch, it was too late for some hours actually. Regardless of my doubts about my doubts of FC's innocents, I believe I'll stand by my point.

There are a couple of reasons why I didn't point at Muska. To start, if Muska turned out to be lying his mouth off about this whole neutral thing when lynched, FC would pretty much have a free pass for the rest of the game as the mob leader, The loss of the ever suspect Muska would hardly be a blow for team wolf but would be well worth the trust gained if they lead the wagon. Secondly, if FC was still lynched regardless of my point(and he totally would be), Muska may just have turned his attentions to other posters that slighted him, he's been pretty vindictive to his accusers so far.