FullMetal Alchemist & D20

[tokara2132]

I have often been to adultswim.com, the website for the late night bloc of shows of Cartoon Neywork. In a certain area, there was a D&D posting topic. In it, I had come up with an idea for a FullMetal Alchemist d20 game. I came up with some ideas about alchemy and the world as a whole based on what I have seen so far.

As a basis, I decided to use the D20 Past supplement with D20 Modern to base the game off of to represent the normal tech level of that world. So, I decided to go with late 20's to early 30's tech to get an idea. It was then that I came across a problem: the Alchemy itself: It is quite like magic, yet it can be done by just about anyone. I had originally planned Alchemy to be part of the Alchemist advanced class, so I came up with an alternative: The Knowledge (Alchemy) skill.

All of alchemy would be based on the Knowledge (Alchemy) skill. A normal transmutation circle would take a full round action Knowledge (Alchemy) check to draw it, which would provoke an attack of opportunity. However, Alchemy itself, being very complex and difficult to use, would have very high checks: 15 + alchemic power or even more.

Now to the Alchemy itself. I think that I want to have alchemy be more based of off single powers, much like the Warlock class from Complete Arcane. I decided to take some of the most quinessential spells from D&D, which include Magic Missle, Lightning Bolt, Scorching Ray, and the various Transmutations. I decide to get rid of any transmutations that change flesh to stone, since I have yet to actually see that happen and doubt it will ever happen. Also, full Alchemists are extremely skilled with particular abilities and have various ways of putting transmutations circles on them, be it through gloves, clothing, or even tattoos or scars.

However, Alchemy extremely powerful and I don't want my PC's to get too crazy with them. Therefore, when I do develop the Alchemist or the Alchemic Warrior (I think that Scar and Armstrong would be this one), I think I will limit the amount of powers they get to use easily: Say, 3 + Int Modifier.

Unfortunately, I have to get going. I still have quite a ways to go. I will get back to this as soon as I can.

Tell me what you think of this. Is it a good idea and you want me to continue, or would you like me to stop and shove my foot up a very small oriface in my body?

Regardless of your opinion, just tell me what you think.

[Cantankerous]

I've watched FMA before, and I thought it was pretty interesting.

Using Knowledge (alchemy) for alchemy doesn't seem right, since characters shouldn't go around using one or two skills all the time.

Just an Alchemy skill would suffice, since I think of Knowledge skills as things you learn in a classroom, whereas Alchemy as its own skill could just represent how well a hold one has of whatever defines alchemy. You could even break Alchemy up into different types, like Alchemy (fire) or Alchemy (metal). I forget how alchemy worked on FMA, but it might seem appropriate, since some characters seem to be able to deal best in dealing with fire, metal, etc.

That asides, I would definitely recommend feats to supplement it - for example, one feat might let you do new things with Alchemy, and another might allow you to make more advanced things with it.

And then you could add Prestige Classes that give unique Alchemy-related abilities, similar to the class abilities druids or rogues have.

It seems interesting. I'd be interested to see more.

[OracleYori]

Personally, the magic system in FMA is pretty complicated, but simple at the same time-

its a bit better if you look into the d10 and Mage:The Awakening when it comes out.

That and the Homonculi are near invincible using D&D conventions, so d10 works just a little better-

[TSGames]

I am fascinated with the idea. I was pondering doing the same thing, but I'm not too certain that all of my regular group would wish to play, so I never got around to it. As for alchemy, the only hinderance that I would really put on it, is that if they abuse their alchemic powers too much, the military will be very displeased, and so will many other people.

Also, make whatever Scar is a prestiege class. Remember that he was a soldier and a nomad before he started trying to knock off all the state alchemists. My advice is that you should do kind of what has been done to wizards: force them to specialize only more so. This is why there is a crimson alchemist, a flame alchemist, etc.

One more thing:Don't forget about automail and stuff. And it's very important that you have different classes of alchemists. The flame alchemist(who's fighting Fullmetal tonight, but I've already seen it) is much different than Edward and his brother who are more general alchemists, basically they are like the sorcerers of alchemy, and Mustand and the others are more like the wizards. Edward though, is a prodigy which is why he so much more powerful.

Don't forget some of the cool classes and prestiege class that are non-combat. Like that Brigadeer General Hughes: He was awesome with knives and guns, but maybe that too was a prestiege class.

I also like your idea for checks, but I don't really know, I've never seen alchemy fail in the show, maybe consider something else.

ANyway, I'm glad to know that other people have thought of the same thing. Please, let me know how it turns out. ;)

[OracleYori]

Alchemy does sometimes fail- and remember, the abuse of powers leads to the gate...

but the thing is, you have to realize that if you give players power, they should be allowed to abuse it if they want. there are just reasons not to abuse high level alchemy

another reason for d10- all the characters seem to have taken PrC classes or two by the other posters-

[Lazarous]

Spoiler warning - do not continue reading if you care to be surprised at all by the plot of FMA.






Last chance.






A couple things to consider for your conversion - 1st. alchemy is powered by human souls who died on the other side of the gate (this is why human transmutation fails all the time - the power source and the thing being transmuted are the same and mess up the system). Any sufficiently knowledgeable alchemist can come in contact with the gate and make some sort of trade with it. These trades tend to not be what they hoped for (sort of like a DM twisting a wish).

2nd, there is no fundamental difference between someone who is called the flame alchemist and the crimson alchemist - except that they have preselected which sort of transmutation they wish to perform quickly and made that available on their person. To perform different transmutations, you need different circles. This is part of what makes people like Ed and his teacher so powerful - they can perform any transmutation without a circle (a side effect of doing a trade with the gate). What this means is that there don't need to be extra classes of alchemists who do specific transmuatations, but tie what transmutations they can do to their items until/if they come in contact with the gate.

3rd. There are many instances of flesh to stone type abilities being utilized. The crimson alchemist is the easist to identify because he transmuted certain components of a persons body into a bomb. Thus, only when souls are involved does alchemy not work on a person.

4th. There are supposedly three steps to alchemy - the initial understanding of the object being used in the transmuatation, deconstruction of that object, then recontruction into the new form/material. What made Scar so powerful was that he interrupted this procedure after the second step - he just obliterated anything he touched. Edward demonstrated that this was possible for any alchemist when he destroyed the armor guardian at the research lab. So, you may or may not want to add this sort of override ability into the process of transmutation (perhaps a concentration check to interrupt?).

[tokara2132]

I am fascinated with the idea. I was pondering doing the same thing, but I'm not too certain that all of my regular group would wish to play, so I never got around to it. As for alchemy, the only hinderance that I would really put on it, is that if they abuse their alchemic powers too much, the military will be very displeased, and so will many other people.

The majority of alchemists would be in some way tied to the military, either for support and research or direct support for battle. Those that aren't are normally shunned.

Also, make whatever Scar is a prestiege class. Remember that he was a soldier and a nomad before he started trying to knock off all the state alchemists. My advice is that you should do kind of what has been done to wizards: force them to specialize only more so. This is why there is a crimson alchemist, a flame alchemist, etc.

In the case of Scar, much like what I am doing with Armstrong, are a class that I am now calling (although this may change soon) the Alchemic Warrior. They are not true alchemists, but they use their limited understanding of it to support their abilities in combat. Like the fighter who takes one or two levels in Sorceror or wizard to add a few combat-oriented spells, the Alchemic Warrior has little alchemy to make them better at combat (Armstrong) or just make others easier to kill (Scar).

In the case of Alchemists, they can be just about anything. However, as I am working it, they can only use a small number of Transmutations skillfully. It is from the Transmutations they normally use that they would get their name from.

One more thing:Don't forget about automail and stuff. And it's very important that you have different classes of alchemists. The flame alchemist(who's fighting Fullmetal tonight, but I've already seen it) is much different than Edward and his brother who are more general alchemists, basically they are like the sorcerers of alchemy, and Mustand and the others are more like the wizards. Edward though, is a prodigy which is why he so much more powerful.

I am incorporating automail into it. Because of its alchemical properties plus the fact it is metal, I say that Automail gives a +2 Equipment bonus to strength. It also can be sundered. In the case of Mustang and Ed, they are both Alchemists. The alchemy they use and their outlooks is what sets them apart. Plus, If you notice, Ed studies and reads just as much as any sort of Intelligence based class would. Hes just unusually intelligent for his age.

Don't forget some of the cool classes and prestiege class that are non-combat. Like that Brigadeer General Hughes: He was awesome with knives and guns, but maybe that too was a prestiege class.

Hughes is a Soldier, an advanced (the D20 Modern word for Prestige class) class that is skilled at combat with a specific weapon. In the case of Hughes, he is a Soldier that specializes in knives. There are plenty of advanced classes I can use from D20 Modern. I'm just adding some more for flavor. Heres an example: From seeing how Lieutenant Hawkeye acts and fights, I would peg her as a Gunslinger, another type of advanced class.

I also like your idea for checks, but I don't really know, I've never seen alchemy fail in the show, maybe consider something else.

Ah, but if you remember Eds fight with the brothers tied to the suit of armor, he was unable to draw the spear from the ground because it took too long. This is what I use the skill check for. If you had enough time to do the Transmutation circle, you could easily just take 10 and have it be done. I can see the Alchemy (be it Knowledge or not) skill seeing checks in combat much like the Concentration check, except with Alchemy, your trying to draw the transmutation circle you are using without screwing it up.

ANyway, I'm glad to know that other people have thought of the same thing. Please, let me know how it turns out. ;)

I most certainly will.

[tokara2132]

Sorry about the Double post, but I have to respond again.

Lazarous- I have looked over your ability ideas. I like them, but because the process is almost automatic, I would say that is rather difficult to pull that unless you are using a circle that specifically stops at the deconstructing process. Therefore, I have made a decision: To interupt this process while in the middle of it, you would need to make a 20 + Transmutation Level to successfully pull it off. If you do so, the Target needs to make a Fortitude save equal to your Alchemy Check + the level of transmutation or die. If used against an object (or a living piece of armor), the attack ignores hardness and does damage equal to 1d6 per Transmutation level to the object in question.

Although I am familiar with the Crimsion Alchemist being able to blow up someone using their own chemicals, I have yet to see a Flesh to Stone Transmutation. If you could point out in which episode these might be in, that will help immensly.

[TSGames]

This is thing with scar that I was talking about. He could kill, in fact, explode peoples' brains without even allowing them saves. While players should be allowed to pursue such a course, an ability like this should not be allowed to them. There should be an alchemic assassin class that focuses on things like that, such as what the crimson alchemist did. The downside speaks for itself, they're only useful in combat, and so it would be fairly balanced.

[Lazarous]

Sorry about the Double post, but I have to respond again.

Lazarous- I have looked over your ability ideas. I like them, but because the process is almost automatic, I would say that is rather difficult to pull that unless you are using a circle that specifically stops at the deconstructing process. Therefore, I have made a decision: To interupt this process while in the middle of it, you would need to make a 20 + Transmutation Level to successfully pull it off. If you do so, the Target needs to make a Fortitude save equal to your Alchemy Check + the level of transmutation or die. If used against an object (or a living piece of armor), the attack ignores hardness and does damage equal to 1d6 per Transmutation level to the object in question.

I'd recommend against giving it a save and making it more like pw:kill in that it has a set limit to the strength of a creature (or object) it can destroy. Remember that scar had an artifact level weapon in his arm, which should probably describe the upper end of that particular abilities destructive power. Ed used a much weaker version when he destroyed the armor.

Although I am familiar with the Crimsion Alchemist being able to blow up someone using their own chemicals, I have yet to see a Flesh to Stone Transmutation. If you could point out in which episode these might be in, that will help immensly.

I don't remember seeing a direct flesh to stone transformation, but there were numerous examples of human bodies being reformed into something else. The chimeras, the crimson alchemist, dr.psycho with his lolita complex on his daughter, the one alchemist who could turn himself into a pillar of guns (though they only displayed that ability in flashbacks), the red stone transformation (which is nearly flesh to stone...just no going back and its more your soul being transformed than your body :p ).

Edit: On a more general note, you might want to think about whether saves are an applicable mechanic for any alchemical abilities. It seems one of the fundamental truths of that world is that alchemy works. If you do a, b and c correctly then the effect d will always happen and will always happen the same way. The series went to great lengths to drive the point home that alchemy was a science. I can not remember a single effect of alchemy that was ever resisted. They were interrupted, met a superior effect and were dissipated, some were reversed at a later time...but not a single effect was every 'shrugged off'. Even the homunculi could be destroyed that way i.e. the way Ed turned his mother-homunculi into alcohol, or the way he broke Greed's armor.

[tokara2132]

Hows this then: If the creature that has the ability used on it is of lower HD than the one initiating it, Instant Kill. If of Equal or higher, it does 5d6 points of damage. In the case of Scars arm, it would use the level of the creator, not Scars. that would explain why he has been able to kill so many powerful Alchemists.

Plus, The spells That I have chosen to be able to use in the FullMetal Alchemist Game are all spells that could be explainable in scientific terms if Alchemy is scientific.

My best example: Lightning Bolt. In a scientific sense, you would know that lightning is created when power forces of friction reach a certain point and flash forward with a powerful electrical jolt. In the case of alchemy, it is the alchemy itself that creates the friction needed to make one. And in aiming it, all you would need to do is to find a target that will act as the "flashpoint" for the opposite end of the lightning bolt. I can also see that although the bolt itself is moving extremely fast, if one has fast enough reflexes to realize the alchemy before the actual bolt started.

However, one of the most iconic spells in D&D had to be scrapped because there is no way scientifically that I could support using it in this setting: Fireball. I could understand a single shot, much like Scorching Ray, but I cannot see a fireball shooting forward, only to spread out once it reached a certain point. plus, the Various Transmutations follow Equivalent Exchange - Something I am definitly going to have to look at when seeing which spells are convertable into Transmutations and which ones aren't.

[The Demented One]

Fireball, if modified, is pretty easy. Turn a big ball of atmosphere into hydrogen. (Come to think of my experiences with this kind of thing, maybe a humbler sized mass of hydrogen would be better). Introduce flame. Voila. Just make sure your alchemist carries a Zippo.

[Lazarous]

Hows this then: If the creature that has the ability used on it is of lower HD than the one initiating it, Instant Kill. If of Equal or higher, it does 5d6 points of damage. In the case of Scars arm, it would use the level of the creator, not Scars. that would explain why he has been able to kill so many powerful Alchemists.

Plus, The spells That I have chosen to be able to use in the FullMetal Alchemist Game are all spells that could be explainable in scientific terms if Alchemy is scientific.

My best example: Lightning Bolt. In a scientific sense, you would know that lightning is created when power forces of friction reach a certain point and flash forward with a powerful electrical jolt. In the case of alchemy, it is the alchemy itself that creates the friction needed to make one. And in aiming it, all you would need to do is to find a target that will act as the "flashpoint" for the opposite end of the lightning bolt. I can also see that although the bolt itself is moving extremely fast, if one has fast enough reflexes to realize the alchemy before the actual bolt started.

However, one of the most iconic spells in D&D had to be scrapped because there is no way scientifically that I could support using it in this setting: Fireball. I could understand a single shot, much like Scorching Ray, but I cannot see a fireball shooting forward, only to spread out once it reached a certain point. plus, the Various Transmutations follow Equivalent Exchange - Something I am definitly going to have to look at when seeing which spells are convertable into Transmutations and which ones aren't.

Reflex saves i have no logical problem with - they're a measure of avoiding an effect, which the series shows happening a lot. Its more the will or fort saves that i feel are innappropriate for the abilities displayed (since they're more a measure of resisting an effect), but that could just be a personal preference.

As a side not, Mustang created what are essentially fireballs. The explanation given was that he picks where he wants the fireball to occur, transmutes the air in that direction so that it is very combustable (like removing all the nitrogen) and then uses the spark from his glove to generate the explosion.

edit: (grammar)

[tokara2132]

.....................

Damn, your right, T_D_O. I didn't think of hydrogen.....and yet it makes perfect sense. I was thinking the traditional image of fireball (a fiery orb streaking towards the target). I can just see it now: An alchemist using this transmutation and shooting a bullet into it, igniting the gas and scorching those within the bubble.

Also, I see Mustang using many different fire transmutations, which could be seen as Scorching Ray or Burning Hands. In FullMetal vs Flame, he does use something like a Fireball. Maybe he created the gas cloud, then shot a Scorching Ray aimed at Ed into the gas ball.

[Venatius]

Actually, I have a DM who made an FMA-based "Alchemist" class for his brother in our campaign, since he's a drooling fanboy for it and asked really nicely. ;) Let me see if I can get his permission to post a link or reproduction. It's still a work-in-progress, but I think it's meant to occupy a similar niche to the Warmage, or at least he's used that class as the yardstick to measure the balance of his Alchemist class by. It was certainly nifty to watch in-game, and also very handy when the party was trapped in an antimagic field (since it turned out it didn't technically count as "magic" for that purpose).

[Zoena]

I would very much reccomend watching the end of Hagaren (Hagane no Renkinjutsushi = FullMetal Alchemist) before developing it, as there are HUGE things about the nature of alchemy revealed in second half of the show. Checking out the manga wouldn't hurt either, as that gets VERY different from the show and could give you ideas as well. Manga also generally goes into more in-depth technical descriptions. Let me know if you need help finding these, I can point you in the right direction, also you may get ideas by bringing these up on an anime forum, my site has an entire subforum devoted entirely to FullMetal Alchemist.

One thing I would personally reccomend is to simply replace the magic system witrh alchemy. The more complex a circle is, the longer the casting time, and the material to be transmuted witld be the material component of each spell. An item or tattoo with a specific circle would shorten the casting time, and could even be treated like a rod or wand, containing charges. State Alchemist could be a prestige class and high level alchemy like casting without a circle might require feats to obtain.

Remember that not everyone in the series can do alchemy, and that even if there are lots of people who can learn to do it a little, many of them are simply on the level of cantrips, doing things like mending.

[idksocrates]

idksocrates speaking, close personal friend of Tokara.

The d20 modern experience is based on classes with levels of 10, with 3rd, 6th and 9th being feats, and the rest being different class abilities.

BA: bad (not focused on combat)
Fort: medium (d20 has something in between good and bad)
Ref: Bad
Will: Good

1: Alchemy Skills (Knowldge Alchemy for identifying alchemy as its being cast to try and counter it) and Basic Alchemy (which lets you do pretty much any transmutation but under 1lb per Alchemist level).
2: Transmuation
3: Bonus Feat
4: Empower Transmutation (spend more Alchemy Points to multiply effect by 1.5)
5: Transmutation
6: Bonus Feat
7: Forge Alchemy Stone (magic item to store Alchemy points, like a scroll or wand, but more generic)
8: Transmutation
9: Bonus Feat
10: Alchemy Specialization (still up in the air, I might replace this skill, but the idea is this lets the Alchemist become more powerful at one type of alchemy in some way.)

Transmutations:
Earth: Basically allows things like Turn Earth to Stone and vice versa, stone shift, move earth... you get it.
Earth Assault: Perquisite: Earth Benefit: You can create earthen fists to attack foes (damage 1d12, your base attack bonus, 20str + alchemy level), open chasm's under your opponent, or shoot yourself at large speeds to clear disances or charge at foes.
Metal: Perquisite: Earth Benefit: you can shift metal to creat items. You can also use metal in any way that you use Earth. Assaulting with metal requires the Earth Assault transmuation.
Agriculture: Perquisite: Earth Benefit: You can transmute plants to create medicines, fuse with other elements. If you have Earth assault, you can make plants grow extremely quickly to entangle foes.

Air: You can make light breezes wind, make the air lighter or thinner, change the temperature from freezing to boiling.
Air Assault: Perquisite: Air Benefit: You can create gusts of wind to throw opponets down, create tornados and other weather conditions. You can also create air shockwaves that hit areas for damage.
Water: Perquisite: Air Benefit: You can manipulate water (similar to the Mage hand special ability). If you have Air Assault, you can make water strikes to bullrush foes or create whirlpools or hurricanes
Fire: Perquisite: Air Benefit: You can heat objects up (heat metal). If you have Air assault, you can do various fire attacks (scorching ray, burning hands, fireball).
Ice: Perquisite: Air Benefit: You can cool objects. if you have air assault, you can launch frozen ice at enemies or send waves of cold (cone of cold, ray of frost)
Electricity: Perquisite: Air, Benefit: Charge object (give it a magnetic charge to draw metal or disrupth electronics). If you have Air assault, you can attack with electricity (shocking grasp, lightning bolt)

Flesh: Perquisite: Air, Earth Benefit: You can fuse different animals together to make wholly new animals or temporarily increase the ability of one (summon monster, Bull's strenght) *note: human alchemy is usually forbidden

[Venatius]

Aha, got it!
http://www.gameroom.com/sirwayne/dnd/dndalchemy.htm

Don't try to direct comments or questions toward me. As I said, I'm not the designer of this class, nor do I plan to use it personally in my own games. Don't let that prevent discussion amongst yourselves, of course.

[tokara2132]

I like that class. However, in my campaign, the Alchemist and Alchemic Warrior are goingto essentially Prestige classes. I do think that with an Alchemy Skill anyonecan do the most basic of alchemy, only those truly trained in it will be able to use the most useful, flashy, and powerful of transmutations. Hey, not anyone can be a truly great alchemist.

Oh,and I have a couple feats as well.

Swift Transmutation (Alchemic)
You are exceptionally quick when using transmutations.
Prerequisites:Alchemist or Alchemic Warrior 1st.
Benefit: Making a Transmutation Circle is now a Move Action.
Normal:Making a Transmutation Circle is a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Instantaneous Transmutation Alchemic
You can use Alchemy without a circle, substituting a simple movement in its place.
Prerequisites:Alchemist or Alchemic Warrior 7th,Swift Transmutation.
Benefit:You can use Alchemy without a transmutation Circle. Alchemy is now afree action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Normal:Making a Transmutation Circle is a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Well, thats all I have for today. Too bad none of you were at the Campaign I DM'd last night. A very hilarious thing happened last nightto idksocrates' character, the elf fighter/rouge Lairtes(sp). I won't go into too much detail, but lets just say it involved a bed, some rope, and a door. Piece it together as you want, but let me tell you it was hilarious.

[tokara2132]

Well, I have gone over the alchemist class again from the website shown, and now I have a few problems with it, but they are minor.

1. The Hit dice. The d8 allowed for the Alchemist is a bit too much for me. Granted, many alchemists are skilled at fighting and combat, but I am making two classes that use it, and the second class can use the d8.

2. Alchemy Points. I really don't see the use of having a need for up to 7500 Alchemy points. I want to lower and limit the amount of points used in my campaign to make the whole system more manageable.

After that, I'm good. Although I have work and school, expect to see at least a rough draft of the Alchemist and Alchemic Warrior in about a week and a half.