Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne

[hamishspence]

Yes to both.

[Winterwind]

That made blast weapons in the hands of MEQs and other high-BS models rather powerful, didn't it?

...oh heavens, Dark Reaper exarchs must have been death incarnate...

[JMobius]

...oh heavens, Dark Reaper exarchs must have been death incarnate...

They still are, really.

My primary antagonist is Eldar, and I've had the Exarch single handidly take out a full 10 man squad of marines in one round of shooting.

[Eldan]

I remember that edition change: went to the shop and talked ot the guy there.

He: Oh, and all blast weapons scatter now.
Me: WHAT? That's retarded!
He: Well, I think that too, yes.
Me: But I just fitted rocket launchers on all my walkers and wraithlords!
He: Well...

Then I went home and rearmed them all with scatter lasers. Now, I think that the scatter thing doesn't actually lower accuracy all that much, but back then I was convinced that template weapons were useless now.

[Copper8642]

Well, to be honest, with all that skull imagery, the word "Reaper" in their name, and their Phoenix Lord being known as "The Harvester of Souls," I'd expect them to be Death Incarnate.

Speaking of which, does anybody else see having Maugan Ra lead a squad of Dark Reapers as not the best use of his skill? Asurmen is fitting to lead Avengers, Kharandras is a great fighter and makes the Scorpions under his lead better, same with Baharroth, Fuegan is at least useful if leading some Fire Dragons, though in my opinion not much better than... a Fire Dragon, and Jain Zar will eat you if you wear armor, and even if you don't.

Maugan Ra is wielding a pretty powerful assault weapon and is also rather beastly in close combat. And he leads a squad of Heavy Weapons.

EDITED because I wanted to comment on Eldan's ninja-post: Yeah, but Eldar Missile Launchers are epic win. S4, AP4, pinning. A great weapon to hail at your enemies for an entire match.

[Erloas]

But don't forget that when you placed the blast markers you still had to roll the 4+ for partials. Removing that made blast weapons a lot better, especially things like flamers that got a lot of partials.

[Eldan]

Well... it's just that all Phoenix kings, with their combat skills and tons of attacks are good in cc.

But Maugan Ra has a powerful ranged weapon, some abilities that help with shooting and no close combat gear. So he isn't all that great. He just has no abilities that help anyone except himself.

[Eldan]

Yeah, I'm using them again, after testing the scatter mechanics. I wrote "I was convinced that they suck." I see now that they are still good.

[Copper8642]

His gun has an Executioner built in. So it's an S6 Power Weapon.
And yeah, just making sure you put the missiles back in. Can't be too sure.

[hamishspence]

An Executioner is passable combat gear.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

And Acute Senses works for whole squad, if night fighting.

[Winterwind]

Fuegan is at least useful if leading some Fire Dragons, though in my opinion not much better than... a Fire Dragon,

Fuegan is, I believe, designed to just not die. I mean, how much more durable can a character get - he can hide in a squad, he has an armour save of 2, is an Eternal Warrior and has Feel No Pain?

[hamishspence]

Put Ghazghull Thraka in a squad with a Painboy and you've got the Eternal Warrior + 2+ save + Feel No pain combination, but yes, its rare to get all 3.

[Eldan]

Wow, epic. I managed to miss all that when reading it. Okay, so he has an S6 power weapon and acut senses. That makes him actually quite a bit better.

Heh, I remember that time when we did, what was it called Kill Team. Where you get to build a unit of whatever models you want and send them into a complex to kill a target while it's guarded by mooks.

Well, I used all phoenix kings. Against approximately 500 Tau drones.

[Steilos]

So wait, rawket lawnchairs are now scatter, and partial hits were removed? Wow, that's quite a hefty change. Obv. I need a new rulebook...

I might go with imperial guard afterall. There's just a certain...charm in how totally expendable all the extremely animated and emotive those little guys are. And then there's big tanks. Lots of them.

[Dark Faun]

I need a new rulebook...

If you're playing Orks or Space Marines, buying the Assault on Black Reach box instead of a rulebook may be a good idea since it comes with an abridged rulebook and about $200 worth of models for less than half this price.

[FlyingScanian]

So if you miss, no blast? And you got to place the blast marker, with no scatter?

Correct, unless it was ordnance blast. Then you used Scatter +1d6, no matter BS...

By the way, a Punisher Gatling Cannon (just the HEavy 20, not any other weapons on the tank), would statistically kill approx. 7 ork boyz in a shooting phase. Doesn't seem all that impressive to me, actually.

And Pask is much better in an exterminator (t/l autocannons), preferably with 3 Heavy Bolters (say Hi to what approximates 4 t/l S8 shots and 9 S6 against vehicles)... that's my plan once I get going, at least...

[Steilos]

That would be rather nice but unofortunately I'm thinkin' IG. Anything available of the sort for them?

[hamishspence]

By the way, a Punisher Gatling Cannon (just the HEavy 20, not any other weapons on the tank), would statistically kill approx. 7 ork boyz in a shooting phase. Doesn't seem all that impressive to me, actually.

When you compare the average kill rate of the gun to that of other main guns, its more impressive. It's quite competitive even next to the Titan Gatling Bolter.

For a sample, vs Boyz:

8 BS3 Gatling bolters-120 shots, 60 hits, 50 dead Boyz
9 BS3 Punisher cannons-180 shots, 90 hits, 60 wounds, 50 dead Boyz

(these are averages)

And even against high armour guys, the rate of fire makes up for the lack of AP.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Nope. Might try eBay to get the basic stuff it comes with. Like this one.

[Zorg]

When you compare the average kill rate of the gun to that of other main guns, its more impressive. It's quite competitive even next to the Titan Gatling Bolter.

And even against high armour guys, the rate of fire makes up for the lack of AP.

The Gatling Blaster spits out six str 8 ap3 large blasts a turn. I think you mean the Vulcan Mega Bolter, which is easily the worst titan class weapon out there. I mean Str6 on a titan, seriously? A full 15 shots will knock down two void fields on average, or kill 9.5 T4 or less enemies a turn, not even good for killing masses of orks. That's at BS4 - it's even worse on the Stormlord [/rant]

I've been analysing titan weapons in detail - their use, damage, usefulness etc and will be putting up the results on my blog when I get around to it (possibly around the same time Dark Eldar get their new codex). I've got my basics in part 1 already.

[hamishspence]

yes- the Vulcan Mega Bolter. It may be the worst Titan grade weapon, but its still heavier than most normal sized tank guns.

[Zorg]

Barely heavier - it has AP3 for sure, but is weaker than an Autocannon, which most people rate for popping light armour at best.

At BS4 you'll get on average 10 hits.
Against T4 and under = 8.3 wounds
T5 = 6.6 wounds
AV10/T6 = 5 damaging hits (2 glance, 3 pen)
AV11/T7 = 3.3 (1.5 glance, 1.5 pen)
AV12/T8 = 1.6 (glancing hits only)
AV13/T9 or more is impossible to damage.

If you can't even reliably kill a Wraithlord in one (or rather 15) shots from a titan something's wrong. Even a 5 man terminator squad will be fairly survivable, loosing one guy on average.

Sure it's actually very killy, but on a superheavy there are so many better options than the VMB, that anything that can take it really shouldn't. Even a Stormlord's main firepower should be coming from loading it with heavy weapons teams - 20 models can fire from it, and on the move too. Stick 20 heavy bolter teams in it for some real anti infantry firepower, or 20 lascannons and go tank hunting.

[Myatar_Panwar]

As far as I can tell, hammish is in no way voting for the Mega Bolter as a titan weapon Zorg. He is saying that the Punisher Cannon is comparable to it.

[hamishspence]

Yes- I was pointing out that, as the smallest Titan weapon, the smallest of the "super heavy tank main weapons" the fact that the Punisher main gun is almost as good speaks quite well for the Punisher (though rather badly for the Mega Bolter)

[Steilos]

Alright, so I have to buy everything. That.. May be a problem. Unfortunetly, I am a rather forgetful personality. I'm worried that if it takes me a year to get things done, then I'll have forgotten by then. Ah well. You sure there's nothing for IG? Or even a way to play without minatures, least until I find a club and buy an army? I mean, considering the amount of models you need...

[Winterwind]

Well, if you are looking for a way to play without miniatures, there's Vassal, and the friendly thread next door concerned with it...

[Wraith]

Maugan Ra is wielding a pretty powerful assault weapon and is also rather beastly in close combat. And he leads a squad of Heavy Weapons.

I kind of agree with you, in a way. Maugan Ra probably is the least-complimentary of the Phoenix Lords, in that the other take their Aspect and turns it up to 11 while his skills - as said previously - only benefit himself. That he has a Shuriken Cannon (AP 5) in a squad of MEQ-killers does really seem to add much to the equasion that a normal exarch with a missile launcher couldn't.

Having said that, if that's all you use him for then you're doing it wrong.

The bane of a Dark Reaper's existence is Deep Striking units; popping up right behind them for a round of shooting and then threatening a murderous charge in the next turn. Sure the Reapers'll probably kill a couple first, but even they struggle against Terminator Armour, the most notorious of DS'ing units.
Maugan Ra, however, is unique in that he is a Phoenix Lord that fills in a very different role to the rest of his Aspect, and takes the fight to the enemy to protect his squad.

A unit Deep Strikes behind the Dark Reapers, and shots are fired. In the Eldar turn, Maugan Ra can declare that he is leaving the unit in order to become an Independant Character again. Then he moves forward and fires his Assault-ing cannon, while the Reapers take some shots with their own weapons (they haven't moved, after all), and then in the Assault Phase 'Ra lunges into combat with a much smaller Squad with his ridiculous number of attacks, ludicrous initiative and a strength 6 Power Weapon.
Bye bye, Terminators, and pretty much anything else that happens to be standing nearby.

Unique is the word, I think. You wouldn't expect Fuegan to lead a squad of Fire Dragons against a horde-based army, Jain Zar certainly won't do you any good if your Howling Banshees are taking pot-shots at snipers, and you'd suffer the consequences if you did give it a try. Maugan Ra, on the other hand? Aspect Warriors are lop-sided in the speciality by definition, and he is specifically built to fill in the gap. Bizarre, but true.

That would be rather nice but unofortunately I'm thinkin' IG. Anything available of the sort for them?

The Imperial Guard Battleforce Boxed Set is usually a good place to start. It takes very little effort to turn it into a functioning army (Just Add Codex, and possibly one or two models of you really must) and it's a good core to build around. Plus, you save money compared to buying them all seperately.

As for painting advice, there's dozens of tutorials online (The GW Website is handy for Imperial Guard in particular) but nothing beats practice.
Consider investing in a box of Troopers - or beg/borrow a few from a GW store, if you ask for a painting tutorial from one of the staff - for the sole purpose of practising your technique on. That's usually good as you will have 3 or 4 or 5 models to find a nice colour scheme, and another 5 or 6 to repeat and refine it upon.

If all else fails, just paint over them and try again. They're only 'Practice' models, it's not the end of the world if they start looking a bit lumpy

[Winterwind]

A rules question regarding Necron Wraiths.
They have a rule that, because they "can intangibly pass through terrain", they regard no terrain as impassable and never have to take Difficult Terrain tests. They also move like jetbikes.
On the other hand, a jetbike using turboboosters is not allowed to move into Difficult Terrain.
So - may Wraiths use turboboosters and yet move through Difficult Terrain, or not? Their rule never explicitly states they can, but the reasoning of the rule would indirectly imply that they should be able to...

[Myatar_Panwar]

I would think that because the rulebook says that jetbikes "cannot move through difficult terrain", it can't move through it. The wraiths rule probably just says that it doesn't have to take difficult terrain tests when it enters difficult terrain. If it can't enter, it doesn't matter.

There might be some faq on this. Too lazy to check.

[Winterwind]

The formulation on the scarabs (who have a similar rule) makes it perfectly clear they cannot enter difficult terrain while using their turbobooster.
The wraiths' one is worded less clearly...