Ninja Assassin: dumb name, cool action?

[13_CBS]

So we have this action movie called Ninja Assassin, which for me is up there with Titan Quest and others for the list of, "Lamest Titles Ever". It looks like a summer action flick (except that it's coming out in November) with lots of explosions, martial arts, and poorly written romance. It also happens to star a Korean pop-star (so...imagine seeing Lance Bass from N'SYNC starring in the next Die Hard movie )

The trailer looks cool, but the weapons, particularly the throwing stuff and the chain-blades, look a little to CG.

Hmm... It makes me wonder if they're just going for "CRAZY AWESOME NINJA ACTION" for this film.

[pflare]

I think the movie could either suck or be pretty decent but my money is on suck.

BTW that is the least inventive movie title ever.

[The Rose Dragon]

I hope this is only "So Bad It's Good" and not "So Bad It's Horrible".

[Icewalker]

BTW that is the least inventive movie title ever.

Snakes on a Plane?

[The Rose Dragon]

Snakes on a Plane?

Superman?

Seriously, they named a movie about Superman "Superman".

The nerve!

[kpenguin]

Its a pity that the state of pop culture is now that the title is not considered redundant.

[sealemon]

dang it, kpenguin! You almost ninja'd me on a ninja movie thread!

Because yes, the first thing I thought was "least imaginiative, more like needlessly redundant".

Look for the folow up movies Samuri Warrior and Yakuza Gangster!

[Llama231]

Emperor King?
Shogun General?

[chiasaur11]

Emperor King?
Shogun General?

Manos, the hands of fate?

Wait. Been done.

[Mewtarthio]

Its a pity that the state of pop culture is now that the title is not considered redundant.

Didn't ninjas perform non-assassination acts of espionage as well?

[Innis Cabal]

Didn't ninjas perform non-assassination acts of espionage as well?

They did. And Samurai weren't just warriors. So neither of those are all to redundant.

[13_CBS]

I'm under the impression that ninjas didn't really exist IRL.

[chiasaur11]

I'm under the impression that ninjas didn't really exist IRL.

Looks like somebody did his job right...

[Innis Cabal]

They did, the name ninja just wasn't used for often, nor was it popular untill the late 1940's.

[Xondoure]

dang it, kpenguin! You almost ninja'd me on a ninja movie thread!

Because yes, the first thing I thought was "least imaginative, more like needlessly redundant".

Look for the follow up movies Samuri Warrior and Yakuza Gangster!

I'm pretty sure Samurai Warrior has been done, but it isn't redundant. To be redundant it would have to be Samurai Knight.

Also, fixed your spelling for you!

[kpenguin]

Didn't ninjas perform non-assassination acts of espionage as well?

They also ate, drank, and were merry. What's your point?

[Miyako]

There is nothing wrong with the title. We have Ninja Spies, Ninja Assassins, Ninja Infiltrators, Ninja Trackers, Ninja Saboteurs, Ninja Spotters, Ninja Dogs, Ninja Messeners, Kunoichi variants of the same... Ninja Masters, Ninja Grand Masters, and Ninja Shadows.

I think the title is great!

For once, it might be accurate. Consider the English movie WAR. It features Jet Li as a Rogue Assassin, getting revenge, telling girls to start a new life.

In most of the other countries it was released, we called it Rogue Assassin.

It is a more accurate title.

Since this movie is about a Ninja Assassin, what makes the title lame?

Probably Y - O - U. It just sounds funny to you, kind of like how you hear a second language speaker, and think 'Wow, this person sounds silly/lame/idiotic/different/interesting'.

What is Redundant about Samurai Knight?

A Samurai is not a Knight, so someone could both be a Samurai and a Knight. That would make for an interesting movie.

TITLE = awesome.

Action = awesome.

Racist Factor = Koreans may not be as popular with some, who favour non-Gaijin in every respect.

Ninja = Awesome.

CG Cool = Awesome.

Kiss Scene with Girl = Awful. Pick a better spot and time. Not in front of everyone! Love interests are by definition rude! (Because you are not supposed to kiss in public, Hehehehe... )

I will watch it.

CRAZY AWESOME NINJA ACTION!

That was the whole point, wasn't it?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I hope this is only "So Bad It's Good" and not "So Bad It's Horrible".

This. With a bit of luck the acting will be just bad enough, and the action sufficiently over the top, to be funny

Edit: Watched the trailer. Should make for an entertaining 2 hours.

[LurkerInPlayground]

What is Redundant about Samurai Knight?

A Samurai is not a Knight, so someone could both be a Samurai and a Knight. That would make for an interesting movie.

Because it's terribly anachronistic?

A samurai is more or less a knight anyway. A minor noble and warrior who is theoretically bound to a code of honor (bushido or chivalry) in a feudal caste system.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the word "ninja" is derived from "shinobi" through some way the characters are pronounced. And it literally just meant a person who partakes in acts of secrecy. Which could include just about anybody at one time in their life.

So no. Ninja Assassin isn't really redundant. There was no such thing as ninja clans. A samurai could be a ninja simply by spying on his enemies.

[Miyako]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. A little of both. A Samurai is not the same as a Knight, 'our' cultures were as far apart as can be. He is not theoretically bound -- he lives it, and his Honour defines Who He Is rather than What He Has.
Knights are Cowardly Scum who do not have the same Warrior Spirit and walk around in ugly buckets (Cultural racism at its' finest) they liked to call armour. Being a Samurai and being a Knight are two different things. Samurai were anything but Minor, they ruled Nihon for a very long time. And they would weep if I let you get away with saying that.

A Knight has no Soul.
(don't bite my head off for being racist, I admit it. I am defending Honour, and establishing a 'truth' that I suspect you would only call prejudice and narrow-mindedness because we look at things a bit differently)

Mutually Reasonable Discussion
The words Ninja and Shinobi, as far as I know, are more recent terms that people use to refer to them. They were called many different things, and the usage varied depending on who and where you were asking.

To deserve to be called Shinobi, you must live in the Shadows. It is more than partaking in acts of secrecy, it is living the Ninja Way. Not merely someone who partakes of secret acts, otherwise random losers and gangers would stain the Ninja Name. If there were Ninja 'Clans' (I suspect there were, being alone would be worse than death) they would not advertise it as much as insinuate it.
A Clan can grow or shrink based on adopted members, a Clan of Ninja could simply be a regular old clan headed by someone living as a Ninja, with a family of people they train as Ninja.

Saying there were no clans is silly.

A Samurai would never stain his Honour by doing something as Dishonourable as 'spying'. He would have to kill himself. He would never resort to trickery, deceit, misdirection, or Unfairness as perceived by the Universe. These words should not be seen as absolutes, they are kind of subjective.
A Samurai army could outnumber his foe's army, but he would never have them fighting with chain sickles, bombs, disguises...

I cannot explain as adequately as I would like to, so I cannot convince you as much as 'sound' like a stupid girl who thinks she knows everything.

If he wanted to keep watch on someone, he would do it openly. Or he would 'just be passing by', or 'admiring the scenery'. He would never try to be someone he was not, that kind of thing is beneath him. He is always Samurai -- a Kunoichi (ninja) can be anything she wants to be.

[AstralFire]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. A little of both. A Samurai is not the same as a Knight, 'our' cultures were as far apart as can be. He is not theoretically bound -- he lives it, and his Honour defines Who He Is rather than What He Has.
Knights are Cowardly Scum who do not have the same Warrior Spirit and walk around in ugly buckets (Cultural racism at its' finest) they liked to call armour. Being a Samurai and being a Knight are two different things. Samurai were anything but Minor, they ruled Nihon for a very long time. And they would weep if I let you get away with saying that.

A Knight has no Soul.
(don't bite my head off for being racist, I admit it. I am defending Honour, and establishing a 'truth' that I suspect you would only call prejudice and narrow-mindedness because we look at things a bit differently)

...

There really aren't words to express my reaction here. I mean, there really aren't.

I think I'll settle for "idealistic revisionist view of the past" in addition to your mea culpa cultural racism.

[Miyako]

I would not say 'Idealistic', and I mentioned my words were not absolutes. 'Revisionist' might be fair, depending on how you view Time.

Do not play with Time insofar as altering it -- we already had to reset it once. Largely thanks to me, I think... I am not positive on that.

Regardless of how someone is really thinking, I hope we are all sensible, prudent, and Virtuous enough not to start fighting. Too much of that is happening already, and regardless of prejudices we are obligated to maintain, conflict is not the answer.

Accept it as spice, and be wise.

This is off topic, and I initially did not mention it because of that.

An example of Knight vs. Samurai:

A Samurai would not be caught dead. Capture, imprisonment, is shame and so that is why Hojojutsu developed to accomodate their needs of Honour and Dignity.

Knights were commonly captured and ransomed in battle, so they would be viewed as dirty scum unworthy of a Warrior's Name.

Samurai were forced (encouraged) into Seppuku in defeat, or they would lose their souls, their honour, and Divine Respect as ningen. It would not be uncommon to have slaughtered entire families of rival Lords (that happened in Europe, too).

Although it may not have happened so often, truly loyal vassals would kill themselves if suspicion fell on them. There is no other way to be truly certain.

Death as an appology is not a 'bad' system as much as an unacceptable and distasteful -- people cherish their lives -- and it is a genuine gesture of atonement.

Knightly armour is viewed as cowardly, because there is such little risk when plunging into combat. Be proud to die in the name of your Lord, that is Glorious!

(I disagree, I favour Ninja, who would probably realize a Samurai would know better)

[AstralFire]

I'm not going to start hurling insults or argue over something like this. It does no good. Just remember that when you cross a line, there's only so much room mea culpa/refuge in audacity will purchase you.

[Miyako]

Freedom of Speech, within reason, with due consideration. I believe I have accomplished both, and I will stop before I fall from that place.

[LurkerInPlayground]

In a phrase:
This is why I despise warriors. And moreover, people who ascribe that label to themselves.

[chiasaur11]

Freedom of Speech, within reason, with due consideration. I believe I have accomplished both, and I will stop before I fall from that place.

Means you're allowed to do it.

Doesn't mean other people can't call you when you spout BS.

Which, no offense to you as a person, that totally was.

[Miyako]

If you say so -- I was just wary of starting undue conflict that is beyond what you as a person can see.

I am not implying that you are unintelligent or unwise, I am saying that (disregard this if you want) the universe will read this and say:

Let's start a centuries old war all over again, because of something we read on a forum.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. A little of both. A Samurai is not the same as a Knight, 'our' cultures were as far apart as can be. He is not theoretically bound -- he lives it, and his Honour defines Who He Is rather than What He Has.
Knights are Cowardly Scum who do not have the same Warrior Spirit and walk around in ugly buckets (Cultural racism at its' finest) they liked to call armour. Being a Samurai and being a Knight are two different things. Samurai were anything but Minor, they ruled Nihon for a very long time. And they would weep if I let you get away with saying that.

Right, because samurai never oppressed the peasantry.

European armor was actually superior to anything produced in Japan. Most people don't credit this because they mistakenly attribute the Dark Ages with a cultural vacuum. It's a misnomer.

The fact of the matter is that Europe has better quality of iron. Japan didn't. The craftsmanship of European armor was actually quite good that some fortunate samurai used it, either because they bought it or received it as a gift. It's just that good at deflecting edged weapons.

And katanas are all about the edge.

A Knight has no Soul.
(don't bite my head off for being racist, I admit it. I am defending Honour, and establishing a 'truth' that I suspect you would only call prejudice and narrow-mindedness because we look at things a bit differently)

Are you trying deliberately to troll the topic? I find it difficult to believe that you'd openly admit to the notion that Asian people and European are different species.

Also, define "soul."

Mutually Reasonable Discussion
The words Ninja and Shinobi, as far as I know, are more recent terms that people use to refer to them. They were called many different things, and the usage varied depending on who and where you were asking.

To deserve to be called Shinobi, you must live in the Shadows. It is more than partaking in acts of secrecy, it is living the Ninja Way. Not merely someone who partakes of secret acts, otherwise random losers and gangers would stain the Ninja Name. If there were Ninja 'Clans' (I suspect there were, being alone would be worse than death) they would not advertise it as much as insinuate it.
A Clan can grow or shrink based on adopted members, a Clan of Ninja could simply be a regular old clan headed by someone living as a Ninja, with a family of people they train as Ninja.

Saying there were no clans is silly.

No. A ninja is just literally means "person of secrecy," or something to that effect. A spy. A burglar. The wife of the nobleman who passes on gossip. A samurai who tries to figure out the layout of an enemy castle.

If you steal, you're a "thief." It doesn't mean you come from a long lineage of master thieves.

It's only more recently where the notion of the Ninja, a guy in a black costume with supernatural powers of stealth came about as a fantasy. It's not like knights actually slew dragons and giants.

There are no highly trained clans of mystical assassin-spies. The Yagyu were actually samurai who were just famed for spycraft.

A Samurai would never stain his Honour by doing something as Dishonourable as 'spying'. He would have to kill himself. He would never resort to trickery, deceit, misdirection, or Unfairness as perceived by the Universe. These words should not be seen as absolutes, they are kind of subjective.
A Samurai army could outnumber his foe's army, but he would never have them fighting with chain sickles, bombs, disguises...

Uhh whatever.

Combat is by definition, about stacking the odds in your favor. Any sane general understands this. Of course, there are hidden social contracts, but that's just a way of protecting both sides.

Sort of like the Geneva Convention.

I cannot explain as adequately as I would like to, so I cannot convince you as much as 'sound' like a stupid girl who thinks she knows everything.

There's no nice way to reply to this.

If he wanted to keep watch on someone, he would do it openly. Or he would 'just be passing by', or 'admiring the scenery'. He would never try to be someone he was not, that kind of thing is beneath him. He is always Samurai -- a Kunoichi (ninja) can be anything she wants to be.

Which is still a part of spycraft. And moreover, it's still deceit. Diplomats are widely understood to be a kind of intelligence gatherer.

So puzzle this out this contradiction for me, in writing:
What constitutes dishonorable deceit?

The fact that a samurai wouldn't dress down is merely a consequence of living in a caste system. He puts a lot of worth on status.

A peasant hired to do intelligence work? Not so much.

[Rutskarn]

From the makers of Knight Warrior, Marine Soldier, and Politician Liar, it's Ninja Assassin, voted by four cinema beat magazines to be the movie "most likely to abuse everybody's culture forever" for 2009.

[LurkerInPlayground]

From the makers of Knight Warrior, Marine Soldier, and Politician Liar, it's Ninja Assassin, voted by four cinema beat magazines to be the movie "most likely to abuse everybody's culture forever" for 2009.

Meh. The way I understand it, Ninja, as understood by pop culture, is something of a Japanese fantasy as well. Similar to exaggerated tales of the Wild West.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have made an anime like Naruto.