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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default sith vs jedi confusion

    if the sith only have a master and an apprentice and the jedi have a whole council with more than two members, how come they couldn't use their superior numbers to smack the sith down?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Two reasons. First, generally 1 Sith > 1 Jedi. Two, the Sith are really good at hiding.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Yeah, the Sith honed their hiding over about 1000 years since the Great Sith wars wiped them out.

    Also - clones. Remember that most of the Jedi don't get to face the Sith.

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    The sith are crazy, tracking the two down would be too hard

    swarming a massivly good sith with a whole bunch of jedi probably isnt a good thing, as its been said, a sith is a lot better then a jedi (usually)

    One thing that interests me is that the darkside is stronger with fewer members, while the "good" side of the force gets stronger with more members, wonder if thats a reason?


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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    meh, the sith can use their powers any way they want. the're more powerful than the jedi, I mean, a Sith Lord can take out at least a whole room of jedis.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Xerillum
    meh, the sith can use their powers any way they want. the're more powerful than the jedi, I mean, a Sith Lord can take out at least a whole room of jedis.

    Depends on the Jedi.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Also, a Jedi Master could bring down a whole room of Sith.

    But this all depends, is it force powers or lightsaber?
    Vader vs Obi Wan (Episode 3) shows they are about equal. Both of them now being the best lightsaber wielders.
    But force powers is where it heats up... the Sith go offensive, and the Jedi defensive. Sidious vs Yoda...Sidious won due to a lucky shot really...
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    They didn't originaly have a rule of two, but they got their asses kicked anway so they thought they might as well stop bothering to train worthless grunt sith and hid in a hut. In the Galactic Empire Era, why didn't the Sith use their massive numbers to smack the Jedi down? They thought they had, it's the same for the massive Jedi order v.s. the Sith.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibar, Lord of Koalas
    Also, a Jedi Master could bring down a whole room of Sith.

    But this all depends, is it force powers or lightsaber?
    Vader vs Obi Wan (Episode 3) shows they are about equal. Both of them now being the best lightsaber wielders.
    Vader was just an apprentice then, and was defeated by his own over-confidence (the somersault over obi-wan's head). Yet still he was a match for his Jedi opponent.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Nothing but a Nobody

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogwheel View Post
    Also, are you even human any more, or did you just transcend into some sort of in-joke singularity?

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    The sith don't need numbers. One sith lord, with a rotating apprentice, plus a couple of years of politics, equals a hell of a lot of dead jedi.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibar, Lord of Koalas
    Also, a Jedi Master could bring down a whole room of Sith.

    But this all depends, is it force powers or lightsaber?
    Vader vs Obi Wan (Episode 3) shows they are about equal. Both of them now being the best lightsaber wielders.
    But force powers is where it heats up... the Sith go offensive, and the Jedi defensive. Sidious vs Yoda...Sidious won due to a lucky shot really...
    Well before Anakin killed Windu, Windu had his super Vaapad style of lightsabers which would of easily beaten Anakin in a fair fight (read: not a surprise attack)
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Sith Master 1 and apprentice.
    Apprentice learns enough to strike down Master 1 and becomes Master 2, taking on a new apprentice.
    Sith Master 2 and apprentice.
    Apprentice learns enough to strike down Master 2 and becomes Master 3, taking on a new apprentice.
    Sith Master 3 and apprentice.
    Apprentice learns enough to strike down Master 3 and becomes Master 4, taking on a new apprentice.

    Survival of the fitest.

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Actually, you're all wrong.

    It depends on who's writing the story.

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibar, Lord of Koalas
    *laughs!* Thank you. :D
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    I figured I could be both unoriginal and off-topic at once by posting this link:
    http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/d...dy/default.php

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    Lord Iames Osari's Avatar

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer
    Two reasons. First, generally 1 Sith > 1 Jedi. Two, the Sith are really good at hiding.
    I don't think it's true that Sith are inherently more powerful than Jedi. It's just that most of the time, the Sith are more powerful than the Jedi they are fighting. Like, most Sith have CRs in the 16-20 range, whereas most Jedi have CRs in the 5-15 range. A Jedi of CR 20 vs. a Sith of CR 20 is going to be a pretty even fight - witness Yoda vs. Palpatine in Episode III.

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Well before Anakin killed Windu, Windu had his super Vaapad style of lightsabers which would of easily beaten Anakin in a fair fight (read: not a surprise attack
    What is Vaapad. I keep hearing about it, what the hell is it?
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    So yeah I'm kinda thinkin' that Jedi are just as powerful as sith, but sith don't hold anything back. So therefore while not being more powerful they do have more powers.
    Hey, so did I!&&&&

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Were-Sandwich

    What is Vaapad. I keep hearing about it, what the hell is it?
    It's a very rare style of lightsaber combat mastered by only a few Jedi throughout history. Basically it revolves around focusing all your negative emotions, i.e. hatred, rage, etc. into your fighting but without giving into them. It also requires mastery of all the other forms of lightsaber combat.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by apparently nothing
    if the sith only have a master and an apprentice and the jedi have a whole council with more than two members, how come they couldn't use their superior numbers to smack the sith down?
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Harnryd
    I figured I could be both unoriginal and off-topic at once by posting this link:
    http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/d...dy/default.php
    Hey, I can be unoriginal too!

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    It all depends on the style and experience see Episode I Darth Maul vs. Qui-gan and Obi-Wan. Also see Episode III Count Dooku vs. Obi-Wan and Anakin.
    In these cases the more experienced Jedi are taken out of the fight and the less experienced ones take over to kill the sith lord.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Ohohoh! Something I actually know something about!

    The force is sort of like a weighing scale, in essence the more good you do with the force, the more evil is needed to be created in order to balance out this order. People seem to like the idea that the force is some sort of benign power, but it's pretty much indifferent.

    The reason two sith lords are able to defeat many many more jedi in combat is simply because if you have a council of 100+ jedi all doing good with the force at the same time, the two sith lords have equal power to these 100+ jedi, it's the universes way of keeping things 'equal' as it were.

    What's more even if you include this heightened amount of power a Sith lord is able to gain through this balance, it is much easier to generate power off of your own hatred and malevolence, because this naturally occurs. People have to actually work hard to combat many of their selfish natural urges, so naturally while indeed there are several jedi masters who're in complete control, many fail (and thus are not able to go beyond the power which a Sith Lord can gain)

    And lastly, it's very easy to track down a jedi in a place where there are hundreds, especially as they're pro-active. But it's almost impossible to find two in all the planets, especially if they want to remain hidden.
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by tis_tom
    Ohohoh! Something I actually know something about!

    The force is sort of like a weighing scale, in essence the more good you do with the force, the more evil is needed to be created in order to balance out this order. People seem to like the idea that the force is some sort of benign power, but it's pretty much indifferent.

    The reason two sith lords are able to defeat many many more jedi in combat is simply because if you have a council of 100+ jedi all doing good with the force at the same time, the two sith lords have equal power to these 100+ jedi, it's the universes way of keeping things 'equal' as it were.

    ...snip...
    That seems like a good explanation... but is it canon? Where is this written / said / explained, and who by?

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    ... if you could see the amount of starwars garbage I own or have access to you'd only want to cry. lol I picked that stuff up though mainly from starwars books, I kinda didn't quite explain it right but that's it simply put (just because there are other force users besides jedi and sith which I didn't want to go into)
    Well it’s about time! I was starting to think that I’d researched that “Xykon’s Moderately Escapable Forcecage” spell for nothing!

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Iames, the CoP

    I don't think it's true that Sith are inherently more powerful than Jedi. It's just that most of the time, the Sith are more powerful than the Jedi they are fighting. Like, most Sith have CRs in the 16-20 range, whereas most Jedi have CRs in the 5-15 range. A Jedi of CR 20 vs. a Sith of CR 20 is going to be a pretty even fight - witness Yoda vs. Palpatine in Episode III.
    Because the Jedi pump out new Jedi apprectices all the time who have to make a huge effort to get anywhere, it's much easier for the Sith to take the easy path and gain immense power. Considering that most Jedi, like you said, are nowhere near as strong as a Sith is how they are able to defeat so many Jedi. It's just not that hard.


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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    The answer is very simple.

    Jedi and sith are exactly as strong or weak as the writer needs them to be for the fulfillment of the plot.

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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kriel

    It's a very rare style of lightsaber combat mastered by only a few Jedi throughout history. Basically it revolves around focusing all your negative emotions, i.e. hatred, rage, etc. into your fighting but without giving into them. It also requires mastery of all the other forms of lightsaber combat.
    It doesn't REQUIRE mastery of ALL other forms, but you'll never really master it if you haven't mastered at least a few of the other forms. Also, I'd just like to point out that Vaapad is not so much a style of its own, more its a refinement of the original Form VII lightsaber style of Juyo, which was actually in common use during earlier years of the Old Republic.



    There's also the fact that the Jedi rarely travel in huge groups. The Sith never directly attack the Jedi Temple unless they have lots of numbers. When they go into battle, they usually pick out the small traveling groups of Jedi.

    So, for example, rather than go and attack the Jedi where they are strong and get overwhelmed by sheer numbers (even the mightiest Sith can't face down, say, twenty Jedi at once, even if they were just Padawans), they catch the small groups unawares. See Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Maul was about equal in skill with Qui-Gon Jinn, but his fighting style was much better suited for long-term combat, where as Qui-Gon Jinn's style takes a lot more energy to use. Without Obi-Wan's aid, he grew tired and was unable to keep up with Maul's attacks, thus why he died.

    Sidious was about equal in skill with Yoda and Windu. Watching the fight, I've also noticed that Sidious appears to use Vaapad, I'm not sure if he studied Windu's style from a distance, or if he was using the original style of Form VII (Juyo) combined with his prescience to predict and imitate Windu's movements. Though, it's actually been suggested (and sounds more likely to me) that Windu was actually imitating Sidious, using his own powers against him.

    I'm not sure what this has to do with the original rant. I think I was just trying to point out that the greatest of Sith and the greatest of Jedi are generally of equal skill and power, but that whoever is the least numerous generally uses stealth and care so that they can engage their enemy on equal terms (thus ensuring they cannot be overwhelmed by superior numbers.)
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: sith vs jedi confusion

    Also, remember that the Sith master, having just the one apprentice, seeks out the best guy he can. He doesn't choose somebody if he isn't very skilled with the force. The Jedi, on the other hand, take anybody who can use it, whether or not they possess amazingly high ability with it. It's only sensible, therefore, that the average sith will beat the average Jedi. If the sith went to recruiting mass numbers, the average sith and average jedi would be about equal.

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