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  1. - Top - End - #751
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    The Anarresti's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I think that a large portion of the food, at least 30%, could come from Galdran and other in-city food producers. I can also see a lot of aquaculture in the river: one of the most space-and-energy efficient means of food production. Also, a lot of the nutrients that the fish/shellfish in the river aquaculture would need would come from up river.
    Also, how about vast fungus farms underground? Lots and lots of starchy fungus, that can grow on almost anything and can be baked/dried to make a bland bread-like substance. Fungus Bread could be a staple of the lower-class diet.
    Of course, over half of the food needs to come from outside. The most obvious place, aside from other places on Ishka Proper's plane of existence, would be the Elemental Plane of Water, with it's tones of seaweed and fish.
    This could also be the reason why Ishka goes to the bother of setting up "secret districts" on other Prime Material planes: to have a secure food source. Because most inhabitants of that plane are unaware of the existence of Ishka, they wouldn't be able to attack this delicate jugular. (Well, carotid artery, really, but jugular sounds better)
    I could see defending food sources being an adventure hook of some kind...

  2. - Top - End - #752
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Got bored... decided to write anther instalment...

    Episode 6: Duplicate
    Spoiler
    Show

    'Ahh!' yelled Gerald.

    'Oh dear, now look what you've done,' said Xchi.

    'Hmm, interesting,' said Grute. 'I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck like this for a couple of weeks. I like your left hand, by the way, and your hair-colour suits you.'

    'That's me!' persisted Gerald.

    'Gerald, look, Grute is Afflicted. It's an embarrassing condition, so I won't go into it in detail, but basically it means he's going to be stuck in your form for the next month or so. It's probably going to be more difficult for you than him, because over that time his form will slowly decay, looking more and more monstrous. I'm afraid you're just going to have to put up with it. I have to go now, but be in your room at the 4th shift tomorrow and we'll get you a job. Here, have a watch.'

    The Illithid chucked Gerald the small, iron object, and then left the room. Gerald looked at Grute. Well, himself really. He shook his head, then realised how tired he was. Putting down his bags in some of the rare floor space, he climbed up the ladder of the bunk bed and lay down. He was asleep in seconds.

    'Night, night.' Said Grute, then went back behind the curtain of laundry to continue studying the logistics of Magic Circles.

    Other stuff: Does this dress make me look like a DRAGON? Rules for Glamerweaving

    Excellent gnome scribe avatar to match my username by licoot.

  3. - Top - End - #753
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    How big is the Galdren again? I guess we never really worked out the exact geography of Ishka, but I don't know how much food it could really put out (granted, output will be magically enhanced out the window, but will it really be that much).

    as for the river-- we know at one point it gets purified, but will that be enough to make things suitable for growth? would fish be grown there, or some strange fungus/seaweed specially developed for the purpose. I also remember a discussion about the river that wasn't ever really settled. All the references about the canyon, and particularly the Grand Canyon, set me to thinking about western rivers. I get the feeling most people are thinking of a very large river, but all the big canyons I know of (which is a lot) have smaller rivers.

    Mushrooms: Idea for a new district were massive "Fungi Farms" operate. they are in caves for the most part. most of them have paths coming in from higher levels and going out from the lower levels. The Fungi Farms output is directly related to the amount of rotting material in them, and a most waste organic matter ends up in the fungi farms. The owners of the farms make heavy use of undead to do this work (often running a zombie into the ground and then telling him to "lie down"), but many poor Ishkans work there as well. The area is not lit by the magic lantern, so virtually all workers have darkvision. A good number of the farms are run by mycoids, but most underground denizens are represented. places dominated by one race tend to have their own farms, and the farms are found throughout Ishka.

  4. - Top - End - #754
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I think Galdren could provide over 30%, or at least could provide 30% by itself. It's a massive plain full of crops, and nothing but crops. You can stand at the top of Mithral Tower and see it sketching past the horizon, and know that if the tower were uprooted and placed on that horizon, you could still look out and see nothing but crops, for several horizons. The soil has been cultivated for thousands of years, and I'd be willing to bet that the people there have managed to find ways to build it up better than any peculiar demands in the market cause them to tear it down with crops that hurt it (like Maize).


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  5. - Top - End - #755
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Also, large fungus farms *could* be under the Groves. Fungi aid the growth of trees.


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  6. - Top - End - #756
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Galdren handles most of the city's food needs. Everything else is handled by Imports, or grown in-canyon (Which usually means people hunting rodents or feral dogs/goats, cooking them up, and eating them).
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    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  7. - Top - End - #757
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    wait, is Galdren part of the city or is some huge area around it? I don't see how that small area (comparatively) could feed 1 Billion people. It just doesn't make sense.

  8. - Top - End - #758
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Quote Originally Posted by erictheredd View Post
    wait, is Galdren part of the city or is some huge area around it? I don't see how that small area (comparatively) could feed 1 Billion people. It just doesn't make sense.
    Galdren is a massive area around the canyon. It's referred to as a "District", but isn't' really. It's basically all farmland, growing food to keep the city fed. Of course, it dosn't supply all the food, as has been mentioned above.

    Galdran's total area is probably a good deal bigger than the rest of Ishka.


    Also, some of those 1 billion people don't need to eat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  9. - Top - End - #759
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Ok... so numbers--- right now lets deal with the carrying capacity of just the Galdren

    I've been looking around the web for the number of harvested acres a person needs. the number appears to be around .5. that's including our modern fancy grain modifications, which I assume magic has been used to reproduce.

    Now lets pile on the modifications: I believe that there is a spell that either doubles or triples production of land. lets assume this is used throughout the Galdren.our acreage is down to 1/4 or 1/6.

    now, size: there are 640 acres per square mile, or 3840 people fed per square mile. lets be generous (and lazy) and round up to 4000 people per square mile, or 100,000 per 25 square miles

    I may be wrong, but I believe we decided the canyon was 450 miles long.
    450*width*2*100,000/25=people fed by the Galdren
    1,800,000*2*width=3,600,000*width = People fed by the Galdren

    in order to feed 30% of the population (300 million) we would need
    300M/3.6M=83.33 miles on each side of the Galdren. this is not impossible--- but it is only 30%, and is a huge area.

    Did we decide 10% of the city was undead? that helps--- but in this case mostly changes the percentage to 33%

  10. - Top - End - #760
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    On the topic of Magetown.

    I know that we had listed a specific Mages' District earlier in the thread; it was supposed to be a foil to the Academy, in that the Academy is where one goes for learning and the Mages' District is where one goes to apply it in practical ways. It was suggested that the Mages' District was where the main portal to the Astral Plane would be located, attached to a MASSIVE interstellar port for flying Astral merchant vessels. This is also the district where there is so much magical run-off that a Great Work can be powered by it.

    I find it perfectly reasonable to squish Mage Town and the Mages' District into one district. Magetown would probably be the "lower class" section of the Mages' District - the place where the people with less-marketable magic like sorcery tend to live. The upper class and merchant class would be wizards and other people with controllable, predictable magic. I could see definite discrimination between the rich parts of the district and the poor part, perhaps even gangs of rich wizard and artificer kids throwing down versus gangs of sorcerers and warlocks.

    The question, then, is what the official name of the district would be. I think that the Mages' District makes the most sense because of how basic it is. It would, however, be called Magetown to the point that nobody would call it the Mages' District in anything but the stuffiest of dialogues. It's like one of those universities that's only ever referred to by its initials. So, Magetown (the Mages' District to those fat, dry asses in Mithral Heights) would be set up in three tiered rings. Starting in the center, the first ring would be the merchant area, with the Astral Plaza at the center. The next ring out would be where the richer people tend to live, mostly Wizards and Artificers. The third ring would be where the lower class tends to live, with sorcerers and warlocks.

    This would add some new slang to the city. Specifically, it would provide a descriptor for a particular mage. In the same way that a person's level of dryness or wetness denotes their wealth or poverty, a mage's circle would tell people a lot about his traditions, method, and expected income. A third-circle mage is probably a sorcerer or a warlock - people who don't have many tricks, but can repeat them often. They're expected to be rather poor, and people called a third-ring mage when you're a second- or first-ring mage is a significant insult. A second-circle mage is a mage with a marketable talent. These are wizards and artificers that one would expect to own a shop somewhere selling potions and services.

    A first-circle mage is more of an achieved title than an inherent mark. A first-circle mage is anyone with arcane ability who becomes an adventurer, who "crosses through the first ring." Be they a plane-hopping gatekeeper, a member of the elemental guard, or a corsair who plies the Astral currents on his own vessel, a first-circle mage is one who finds owning a successful shop dissatisfying and therefore goes adventuring. A third-circle gang probably sees low-rank individuals brown-nosing to their leaders by saying something like, "He's a real first-circle kind of guy, you know?"

    Being a first-circle mage is a mixed basket. It's a lot like being a rock star. Sure, people are going to want stories, and they'll buy you free drinks. Professionals tend not to take you seriously, though, when it comes to "serious" business. After all, what could you know about balancing an inventory or negotiating a trade? While everyone growing up in Magetown wants to be one when they're little, most would rather be a second-circle mage by the time they've grown up.
    GENERATION 12: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
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    Fogmere City
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    Brute
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  11. - Top - End - #761
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    That sounds really good. The third circle would be the largest one, however. Consider Ishka: the large majority of people with poorly-understood powers (Sorcerers, Warlocks, Harrowed, etc) would live here. Teenage runaways and families with sorcerous blood to the umpteenth generation. The population of wizards and other applied magicians would be split between those at the University (would would live in the District) and those who are merchants. The one objection I have is that I doubt adventuring magicians would have their own district. It's not like "Adventurer" is an accepted profession: the captain of a pirate ship, an Occult Investigator, a University Field Archeologist (think Indiana Jones) would all be adventurers, but they would all come from different social strata, have different reasons for adventuring, live in different districts, and everything else.
    And the reason I put up Magetown is because the Magician's ghetto seems to be totally different than the magical shop district, poor and residential rather than rich and mercantile. It's not like Ishka is a planned city, where everything follows a logical pattern and is laid out with precisely one district for everything.
    Also, a wizard would rarely join a gang: by the time they had mastered the simplest of spells, they would be at least in their early thirties, too old for street gangs.
    EDIT: Scratch what I strikethroughed. In retrospect, you're probably right: although adventurers would be from different social strata and motivations, they would share a similar mindset, and so would flock to the same bars, to the same apartment complexes, etc.
    Last edited by The Anarresti; 2010-04-17 at 08:43 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #762
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I'm glad you all enjoyed my quick sketch of Ishka, I just threw that together quickly. One thing i'm trying to work on right now is definitive map.

    I was wondering if you all could do a quick sketch of your imaginings and sending them to me, and then I can blend them all together.

    And to clarify on the dimensions of Ishka is 500mi long, canyon is 5-10mi wide (with variations of course), city extends 20-30mi either side of the canyon. The only thing left is the size of the lake, has this been nailed down?

    oh right..

    [email protected]
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    Ishka will never die!

  13. - Top - End - #763
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    ^ I'm an abysmal artist, so I won't.

    On the topic of Magetown, messing with a gang of warlocks is a bad idea if you're a caster with a limited number of spells per day. If they outlast the first spells you throw at them, and you run out, they can batter you with their blast for a long time.


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  14. - Top - End - #764
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    how do I send a picture?

  15. - Top - End - #765
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Quote Originally Posted by Renrik View Post
    On the topic of Magetown, messing with a gang of warlocks is a bad idea if you're a caster with a limited number of spells per day. If they outlast the first spells you throw at them, and you run out, they can batter you with their blast for a long time.
    Messing with a gang of Warlocks IS a bad idea, but a snobby upper class wizard's son might not know enough to think that far ahead. He views his powers as superior. He has true magic, warlocks have corrupt, dirty fiend blood.

  16. - Top - End - #766
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I can imagine a group of sorcerers sneaking on the Univerisity campus and arcane locking all the doors in the dorm.

  17. - Top - End - #767
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I actually didn't mean to imply that the first-circle mages would congregate to a certain circle of the district. While secon- and third-circle mages tend to live in their respective circles, the first-circle mages are only called that because the portal to the Astral Plane is the centerpiece of the first circle, aka the market neighborhood. Nobody really lives in the first circle. It's a place that travelers pass through and people open shop in. The fact that it has the highest concentration of inns in Magetown are the closest thing to justification for saying that's where the first-circle mages live. No, the thing that groups them together is the fact that they don't settle down. Instead, they're Astral pirates, explorers, adventurers, and other Indiana Jones types.

    As for the population of Magetown, I expect that there would be easily twice as many people in the third circle as the second. It just makes sense that there would be more untrained sorcerers than there would be people who have magical talent AND got training for it as a wizard AND decided to sell it in Magetown. That said, I think that the second circle would have easily twice the wealth of the third circle with easily-marketable libraries of spells and magic items. As such, the average second-circle mage is four times as wealthy as the average third-circle mage, given that there is twice as much wealth concentrated into half as many people.

    All this said, a mage's circle would come up in conversation about as much as whether someone is a blue or white collar worker. It's something that's usually tacitly understood when the mage describes their talent that most people won't even comment on it. It's not impolite, it's just unnecessary. Mage circles tend to be used in politics more than anywhere else, whether petitioning for third-circle rights or trying to get favorable taxes for second-circle workers.

    "I grew up in a third-circle family but managed to save up enough to go to the academy," tells a person that this person is a second circle mage without them ever saying it. It doesn't bear explanation. If he then continues with, "After graduating I hopped the gate and signed up on the first Gith ship I found," that tells a person that he's a first-circle mage, again without bothering to use the tag. So, these are widely understood terms for types of mages, but they don't come up in normal conversation with nearly the frequency of a person's dryness. Just like a person's professional collar colour in modern society.

    I can't help but imagine a street fight starting when a wizard's kid calls a young sorcerer a "wet-ass third-circle dragon-blood." This brings me to another point. Given that sorcerers traditionally trace their bloodline to dragons, do we see any connection between the Draconic Heritage Collective and third-circle mages? Any suggestion that sorcerers "go back" there?

    On the topic of the Draconic Heritage Collective, given that kobold clans tend to serve one dragon or one bloodline of dragons for centuries and the fact that most kobolds in the city are descended from the first attendants of the twins, is there a preponderance of names featuring red and gold among the kobolds? Names like Auron Rue, Crimson Gold, or Aux Fyrbyrg? If there are, would you see surnames evoking red, gold, fire, the sun, and blood more frequently among sorcerers than other human social niches?
    GENERATION 12: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
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    Brute
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  18. - Top - End - #768
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Vellatrix Bellatrix is incredibly ancient, even by elven standards. Despite her immense age, she maintains the slim, trim trappings of youth. Incessantly creative and inventive, she has replaced her hands with gloves of force that float with no attached wrists.

    She is a necromancer; far from conveying and cultivating a fearsome reputation, she hires out her tireless force of undead as a creative tool; they are used to build and rebuild, endlessly maintaining aspects of the city.

    She has become exceedingly rich, but still chooses to live in non-opulence; the majority of her money going to charity and guardian sigils and arcana that protect her dwelling as well as an enclosed gauntlet.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

  19. - Top - End - #769
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I like the idea of surnames about different sorcerer heritage, based on dragon descent, but remember that the "blood of dragons" theory is only ONE theory as to how the sorcerers inherited their power. Maybe most of the sorcerer's gangs divvy themselves up based on where they believe their heritage came from. I.E. One who trace back to genie from the plane of water, others who trace to gold dragons, fey, further outsiders. Maybe they even learn common languages: for example, a gang of sorcerers who believe they are descended from Efreeti (and thus tend toward shock-and-awe tactics and fire-based spells) all speak Ignan among themselves.
    I would say that the draconic beings of the Dragon Heritage Collective wouldn't be too warm to the idea of hairy, smelly, hot-blooded mammals crowding up the place demanding partnership. Even if a few sorcerers want to "return," they wouldn't be accepted. Besides, only those who trace their powers back to Gold or Red dragons would want to "go back," unless a significant portion of other dragons are represented.
    List of important sorcerer gangs to be posted shortly...

  20. - Top - End - #770
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    @Amiel: I'd think that the denizens of the Necropolis would be very skeptical of any high-profile necromancer with armies of mindless zombies.

  21. - Top - End - #771
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    Vellatrix Bellatrix is incredibly ancient, even by elven standards. Despite her immense age, she maintains the slim, trim trappings of youth. Incessantly creative and inventive, she has replaced her hands with gloves of force that float with no attached wrists.

    She is a necromancer; far from conveying and cultivating a fearsome reputation, she hires out her tireless force of undead as a creative tool; they are used to build and rebuild, endlessly maintaining aspects of the city.

    She has become exceedingly rich, but still chooses to live in non-opulence; the majority of her money going to charity and guardian sigils and arcana that protect her dwelling as well as an enclosed gauntlet.
    So, I take it you're suggesting the a character that might exist in Ishka?

    What do you mean by "Maintaining aspects of the City", because that sounds like what the Streetbuilders do.

    The Streetbuilders by the way have a rule against using mindless undead or constructs (Though they might sub-contract some for very big jobs), for a variety of reasons.
    1) The Streetbuilder's job is in large made possible by the fact that everybody likes them. They're the hard working boys in gray, just doing a job and keeping the city from falling down. If their work is done by mindless undead, it ruins that image.
    2) The Streetbuilders are one of the biggest employers in the city. If they started replacing paid workers with mindless undead and constructs, BIG problems would emerge.
    3) Mindless undead and constructs can be taken over or sabotaged much easier than normal workers.
    4) In many cases, Streetbuilder jobs simply couldn't BE Done by mindless workers. Mindless Workers may know how to dig a mine, or build a wall, because those are simple, repetitive tasks. Replacing a pillar, shoring up a load bearing wall, seeing exactly what's wrong. All these require a mind. Not an especially bright mind in many cases, but a mind nonetheless.

    Plus, Mindless Constructs are expensive, and Mindless Undead are infrequently used in the city outside of certain very limited areas. It's very difficult for mindless undead to navigate around the city. People don't like them, and penalties tend to be light for destroying them. Goats or dogs might eat them as they walk along, ect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
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    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  22. - Top - End - #772
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Mindless undead make great farming implements, though. A single experienced farmer could use a horde to work a dozen times more efficiently, though the need for the farmer is still there. That said, we've already addressed the issue of mindless labor in Galdren in previous pages.
    GENERATION 12: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
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    ----------
    Brute
    ----------

  23. - Top - End - #773
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Quote Originally Posted by jagadaishio View Post
    Mindless undead make great farming implements, though. A single experienced farmer could use a horde to work a dozen times more efficiently, though the need for the farmer is still there. That said, we've already addressed the issue of mindless labor in Galdren in previous pages.
    Yeah, but for most Ishkans Galdren is out of sight out of mind. They probably know much of their food is grown by hordes of mindless undead tilling fields, but they don't really think about that. Seeing a horde of undead walking past you're doors on their way to do a job that could be done by your neighbors is a different matter altogether.

    Also, something I've been thinking about, concerning the Saints and their place in the city. Specifically Saint Baltin, best known for leading the Crusade against the necropolis during the Plague, believing the undead to be responsible for it.

    Now, historically, Baltin's a tricky subject. His work in keeping the city secure for the most part and protecting Merkeil's healers as they ventured into infected districts is frequently talked about. The Crusade however, is not. In modern Ishka, the Crusade is something of an awkward subject. There is significant anti-undead sentiment in the city, but rarely is it to the point of wanting to have the necropolis stormed and having all it's inhabitants killed, which was pretty much the Crusade's stated goal. It dosn't help that Merkeil, who was around at the same time, and is pretty much considered a great guy by everybody, didn't exactly speak out against Baltin's efforts.
    Baltin's position within the Ishkan pantheon is a "Saint of Justice", contrasted with the Ravens, who are more a Saint of Law. There is a crucial difference.

    Baltin's Justice is a violent, karmatic, hands-on justice, as opposed to the cold calculation of the Raven's laws. You send a prayer to Baltin when you wish ill on somebody who wronged you, or when you are going to fight (Not necessarily violently) for some just cause. Contrast with his rival Kenrik, the saint of Protection.

    Baltin's worship tends to be popular with street level police officers, people who make alot of gut judgments and expect to get their hands dirty. Baltin's place as a warrior-saint works well with their profession.

    By contrast, Investigators tend to worship the Raven when they feel religious. The Raven fits better with the cold, methodical nature of their jobs. They also, too frequently in their jobs, come across the difference between "Wrong" and "Illegal".
    Baltin is all about Justice being enacted, which is good if you see a mugging in progress, but bad when you're looking for a murderer. Baltin's worshipers tend to be a little too eager to declare people guilty. They want to see Justice done, which means that once they convince themselves of a suspect's guilt, they tend to focus on finding that person guilty rather than analyzing all the facts. Raven worshipers on the other hand tend to be much more focused on analyzing ALL the facts of the situation, which takes longer, but is more certain, hence, better for investigators, worse for watchmen on the street.


    There is one theory, known as the Final Trial, that is common amongst Ishkan Theologians. This theory holds that, when a person's soul passes on for good (coming back as undead dosn't count), three saints appear to decide where the Soul ends up. Baltin acts as a Prosecutor in this trial, arguing in favor of punishing the soul for their wrongdoings. Kenrik acts as the Defense, arguing in favor of clemecy for the Soul, of sending them to a good afterlife. The Raven sits as Judge and Jury. Impartially hearing the arguments and sending the soul on.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-04-18 at 12:46 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #774
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    I'd also note that as a distinction between Law and Justice, the Raven is often seen as more the letter of the law, while Baltin would be the spirit of the law. Thus a loop hole that the Raven wouldn't care about as it technically breaks no laws would be an issue with Baltin if it goes against what the laws stand for (though this is much less common than the reverse issue occurring).

    As for the Final Trial theory, while it has a fair amount of support, those that don't believe in it often try using the Raven being the judge as the weak link in it. Saying such things as no person could uphold all the laws and rules well enough to make it through judgment by the Ravens. Supporters argue against this by stating that as the Raven represents law, it only applies the rules that were applied to the person at the time of any given action (as is the rule wasn't around at the time or didn't exist in that area you weren't breaking it). They also point out that it likely is incremental, and there is a certain threshold that one must stay within (similar to Egyptian mythology in which you soul was weighed against a feather). It is also thought by some that some unknown set of rules and laws is used in this trial.

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  25. - Top - End - #775
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    With the Final Trial theory, it's generally accepted that the Raven is not judging you necessarily based on the laws of the city or your district, but on some law like "Good people get rewards in the afterlife. Bad people get punishment", or some other set of Laws. The point is that Baltin and Kenrik argue over your soul's fate, the Raven exists as an impartial judge.


    Edit: A proverb describing the different Attitudes of the three saints associated with police, Kenrik (Protection), Baltin (Justice), The Stone Raven (Law).

    The Three Saints are walking down the street when they see a man being mugged. The mugger runs away when he sees the Saints coming.
    Kenrik goes to the victim and makes sure he's okay, attempting to minimize the damage of the mugger's assault.
    Baltin pursues the mugger in order to make sure he's punished for his crimes.
    The Raven asks witnesses what happened, to ascertain exactly what laws were broken and how.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-04-18 at 01:30 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #776
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    Default Re: Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

    Listen children, to the wisdom of the Saints.

    The three saints of protection, law and justice each saw a mugger accosting a man whilst they were alive. Victoria, I believe you were mugged yesterday by a man after your rat-on-a-stick. In each case the mugger took the man's money and ran.

    The first saint, the Raven, showed no emotion. As the saint of law and impassionate justice, he used his divine power to capture both the victim and the villain within a prison of force. Using his powers he found the truth, imprisoned the mugger deep within the ground, and returned the man's money to him.

    The second saint, Baltin, was outraged. He cared not for the victim, and ran after the mugger. His divine power swept him along at great speed, his sword glowed with holy light as he cleaved through the skull of the offender. The money was destroyed in the process, but Baltin ripped his own purse open to compensate.

    The third saint, Kenrik, was concerned. He ignored the mugger, and used his holy powers to heal and tend to the victim. He took him under his wing for a night and a day, and as the man left the saint's house, he found money of the exact amount he lost lying outside, on the pavement
    Last edited by TheLonelyScribe; 2010-04-18 at 09:00 AM.

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  27. - Top - End - #777
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    Prerequisites:
    Spells: Detect Magic
    Skills: Spellcraft 8, Sense Motive 4

    HD: d4
    Skills: Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Decipher Script, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge The Planes, Spellcraft, Disable Device, Gather Information
    Skill points per level: 2 + int modifier

    The Occult Investigator
    {table=head] Level | BAB | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special | Spells per Day

    1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Improved Detection, Occult Investigation | -

    2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Spell Trace | +1 of existing class

    3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Caster Tracking | +1 of existing class

    4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Rewind Spells | +1 of existing class

    5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Perceive the Guilty | +1 of existing class [/table]

    Occult Investigation: The O.I gains Detect Magic as an at-will spell-like ability, taking a standard action to cast. In addition, he can spontaneously cast the following spells by sacrificing an appropriate spell slotl:

    Read Magic costs no spell slots to cast.

    Detect Undead costs a 0-level spell slot.

    Locate Object and See Invisibility cost a first level spell slot.

    Arcane Sight costs a second level spell slot.

    Detect Scrying,Scrying and Arcane Eye cost third-level spell slots.

    Analyze Dweomer and True Seeing cost fifth level spell slots.

    Greater Arcane Sight and Greater Scrying cost sixth level spell slots.

    Discern Location costs a seventh level spell slot.

    Improved Detection: When the OI gains a level, he may have one of the following alterations permanently affecting his Detect Magic spell. If the alteration involves the use of a spell level, he can still cast Detect Magic at will without the alteration. The OI can choose from:
    Increase range by 10ft.
    Skipping one round of concentration per casting, but behaving as if he had concentrated for that round.
    Spellcraft check to determine class of caster, DC=15+half caster level.
    Spellcraft check to determine spell, as if seeing it being cast. This makes Detect Magic cost a first level spell slot.
    Two cones of half the normal length in two directions at once.

    Spell Trace: If you identify the location and aura of a spell using Detect Magic, and later use Detect Magic on the creature that cast it, you can make a Spellcraft check (DC 15+half caster level) to recognise that creature of the caster of that spell. If the aura of the spell has already faded, you can not use this ability.

    Caster Tracking: If you have Detect Magic active you can make Spellcraft checks instead of survival checks when tracking a creature who has cast a spell who's aura has not yet faded.

    Rewind Spells: When touching a target, once per day per OI level you can see a number of spells that the subject has cast within the last (OI level) weeks equal to your intelligence modifier x your OI level. You see the most recent spells first.

    Perceive the Guilty: If you have detected a spell they cast using Detect Magic, you have firsthand knowledge and a possession of a creature for the purposes of scrying spells and similar effects.
    Last edited by TheLonelyScribe; 2010-04-21 at 01:18 AM.

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  28. - Top - End - #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLonelyScribe View Post
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    Prerequisites:
    Spells: Detect Magic
    Skills: Spellcraft 8
    Special: Must be a member of the Municipal Investigators

    HD: d4
    Skills: as wizard
    Skill points per level: as wizard

    The Occult Investigator
    {table=head] Level | BAB | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special | Spells per Day

    1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Improved Detection | +1 of existing class

    2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Spell Trace | +1 of existing class

    3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Caster Tracking | +1 of existing class

    4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Rewind Spells | +1 of existing class

    5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Perceive the Guilty | +1 of existing class [/table]

    Improved Detection: When the OI gains a level, he may have one of the following alterations permanently affecting his Detect Magic spell. If the alteration involves an increase of level, he can still cast Detect Magic as a cantrip without the alteration. The OI can choose from:
    Increase range by 10ft.
    Skipping one round of concentration per casting, but behaving as if he had concentrated for that round.
    Spellcraft check to determine class of caster, DC=15+half caster level.
    Spellcraft check to determine spell, as if seeing it being cast. This makes Detect Magic a first level spell.
    Two cones of half the normal length in two directions at once.
    Cause yourself to be permanently affected by a Detect Magic spell without any of the benefits bestowed by being an OI. This permanently takes up a 3rd-level spell slot. To gain the benefits you have by virtue of being an OI you have to cast the spell as normal.

    Spell Trace: If you identify the location and aura of a spell using Detect Magic, and later use Detect Magic on the creature that cast it, you can make a Spellcraft check (DC 15+half caster level) to recognise that creature of the caster of that spell. If the aura of the spell has already faded, you can not use this ability.

    Caster Tracking: If you have Detect Magic active you can make Spellcraft checks instead of survival checks when tracking a creature who has cast a spell who's aura has not yet faded.

    Rewind Spells: When touching a target, once per day per OI level you can see a number of spells that the subject has cast within the last (OI level) weeks equal to your intelligence modifier x your OI level. You see the most recent spells first.

    Perceive the Guilty: If you have detected a spell they cast using Detect Magic, you have firsthand knowledge and a possession of a creature for the purposes of scrying spells and similar effects.
    With all the things that use Detect Magic they would all have to be running around with wands of Detect Magic unless you give them Detect Magic as an At-Will. Also you haven't listed what skills they get as class skills which should definately include Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Decipher Script, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge The Planes, of course Spell Craft, maybe also Forgery, and Disable Device, and Gather Information I guess would be a good one too.

    Also I know they are "Magic Investigators" but is Detect Magic their only shtick?
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    Go HERE for a look at the Dragon-World (CWBP) Wiki.

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  29. - Top - End - #779
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    Detect Magic is not their only 'schtik', they retain full spell-casting, remember? Skills edited to include suggestions, but I think that with all that spell-casting, too many skill points is overpowered.

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  30. - Top - End - #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverscale View Post
    With all the things that use Detect Magic they would all have to be running around with wands of Detect Magic unless you give them Detect Magic as an At-Will. Also you haven't listed what skills they get as class skills which should definately include Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Decipher Script, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge The Planes, of course Spell Craft, maybe also Forgery, and Disable Device, and Gather Information I guess would be a good one too.

    Also I know they are "Magic Investigators" but is Detect Magic their only shtick?
    I actually love the way TLS has built the class. I'd drop the "Must be part of MI" requirement. The vast majority of Occult Investigators are MI, but there are some freelancers out there.

    Detect magic is their Shtichk, because it's their job to investigate magically-related crimes. They're not just "Investigators who use Magic", they are people who Investigate Magic. They tell you that this explosion was a Fireball spell, that it was cast by an 8th level wizard, and (If you look at the way the edge becomes much sharper over on this side, see the caster's subconcious magicbabble magibabble) you can tell he very much didn't want to hit something that was here.
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