Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

[BLiZme.2]

Notation: 1 Pillar + 1 Poppin + 2 Gates + 1 Electrum Fiveling + 1 Silver Fund + 1 Two-Fund + 1 Caution's Fund + 1 Ha'Fund + 1 Double-Ratsin + 1 Ratsin becomes 1p, 52(or 7)g, 6s, 3c and 3r

i don't understand the part like this(52(or 7)g,) pleas elaborate. otherwise looks good.

don't worry im stubborn to. The whole remove the p thing is brilliant and explains away the so so choices in a couple of the names very nice.(also helps support the idea that Ishka used to have standard D&D currency this would be a small holdover).
and i relay like the idea that there are official Ha'Funds and Ratsins but there are also cut up Funds in circulation as the same denomination. I would think those came first, as the currency evolved and then the "real" ones were minted, to fill that role.

100gp =1pp ok by me

4th ed has a very eligant solution to this problem they have a rare gem called an astral dimond serv as the base coin for there high level and super massive value economy. it has a value of something very big like 10,000pp or such and weights in at less than a cp. this is to my mind a very elegant solution the issue of high volume cash transfers as even most magic items can be bought wit a minimum of coins changing hands using these and pp.
the most coins are used the most coins used to buy something is about coins=~ (5,000pp+the number of diamonds needed to get within 5,000pp(cost/10,000pp)). Thus the closer you get to a multiple of 10,000pp the easier change becomes.

if you wanted them to be more realistic official ad currency could be set into adimantium coins with the diamonds value plus the adimantiums value (if i remember right adimantium is 1000gp per pound so that's less than 62.5 gp of adamant per diamond if a coin weighs one ounce) "stamped" on the face of the coin along with the date and the gems official appraisals id (all ap have a record at Division 3 headquarters). Also that lets us have various values of ad with an official value attached so no haggling plus i wold think it would be stranded practice to round down when buying an unset diamond and up when selling one possibly enforced by law(as in only the mint buys or sells non coin ad or they take a percent of the take on any sail and require both party's to know its official appraisal) so people don't go around defacing the coins in an attempt to make money.

Also i suggest there be official gold and platinum bars as currency worth 100 of there respective coins to help fill the gap. this is the only problem i can think of where 100g=1p is a problem as it is needlessly redundant and cumbersome.

so lets try

Ratsin, 1/8 of a cp (so called because it is the price of your average rat-on-a-stick, a cleaned and de-furred one usually costs a double-Ratsin)
Double-Ratsin, 1/4 of a cp
Ha'Fund, 1/2 of a cp (half a penny)
Caution's Fund (Fund), one cp
Two-Fund (Germ), two cp
Silver Fund (Jack), one sp
Electrum Fiveling (Fiver), 5 sp (made from electrum)
Gate (Ponce), 1 gp
Poppin, 5 gp
?Plain? (King), 1 pp=10g
Gold bar (?gold Pillar?)100 gp,1gb/1gi
platinum bar(?platinum Pillar?)1000gp,1gi/1pi
astral diamond (?void diamond?,?diamond piece?) 10,000pp,1ad,1dp {edit}(note 1ad notation means the standard 10,000pp even if a givin atral dimond coin is worth more(moderatly probable) or even less){/edit}

[Silverscale]

Ratsin, 1/8 of a cp (so called because it is the price of your average rat-on-a-stick, a cleaned and de-furred one usually costs a double-Ratsin)
Double-Ratsin, 1/4 of a cp
Ha'Fund, 1/2 of a cp (half a penny)
Caution's Fund (Fund), one cp
Two-Fund (Germ), two cp
Silver Fund (Jack), one sp
Electrum Fiveling (Fiver), 5 sp (made from electrum)
Gate (Ponce), 1 gp
Poppin, 5 gp
Plain (King), 1 pp
Gold bar (?gold Pillar?)100 gp,1gb/1gi
platinum bar(?platinum Pillar?)1000gp,1gi/1pi
astral diamond (?void diamond?,?diamond piece?) 10,000pp,1ad,1dp

This gets my stamp of approval

[Renrik]

Anything! Let's just move on to something other than money!

[Silverscale]

Anything! Let's just move on to something other than money!

Yes it can get frusterating to go over and over the same topic but sometimes you just have to wade through it until a satisfactory answer is found.

At the moment I can't think of anything we haven't covered but I'm at work so I can't really devote much brain power right now when I should be keeping an eye on my students.

[BLiZme.2]

Dito Silverscale about being taped out and not having much brain power on any thing but i think were done with money. Any new ideas would be welcome

[TheLonelyScribe]

Alllllllrighty then! Although I can't think of anything greatly important right now that we need to discuss, and have no access to my 3.5 rulebooks, I have decided to write this diversion which just happens to contain a whole bunch of transactions.

The Package:

Spoiler

Show

Lord Greathe was getting dressed. He could technically have gotten his servants to do it for him, but he took a lot of pride over how he looked, and thought it was a job that the poor weren't up to. Besides, he didn't want them getting to close to his arm. The super-realistic construct looked at the only part of him that he was ashamed of. From his left wrist upwards his arm was warped into a strong but ugly wood-like appendage. It had resulted from being exposed to a piece of powerful magic, part curse, part blessing, part prophesy. But, instead of pondering on it further, Greathe just pulled his silken undershirt over it.

After he had finished putting his clothes on, silk robes covered by a gold-embroidered waistcoat, he moved over to his dressing table. Taking out a small pot of glue, he carefully covered his (literally) porcelain face in a layer of gold leaf that would have flaked off by the next morning. He then carefully slipped his many rings of protection, charisma, wisdom and cleanliness. He suddenly felt a whole lot better, and put on a fine mithral chain coat before slipping on a pair of velvet shoes to go outside.


It was later in the day, the sun shining upon one of the floating platforms surrounding the Mithral Tower. Greathe was sitting outside a cafe with one of his friends. As the waiter came by Greathe slipped 6 gates and a fiveling into his palm, and asked for the Pegasus-heart filled pastries and a pot of elemental tea. He and his friend were talking about the state of the current economy when an angelic (literally, a half angel) beggar hobbled past. The creature's no longer blessed eyes focused on the porcelain noble, and he limped up.

'Sir, just a fund will feed me and my family for a day. My parents are half-angels half-devils, and we cannot earn a wage of our own, sir...'

Greathe turned round slowly. Then, quick as lightning, he grabbed the disgraced angel by its dirty collar. The creature started to choke, and its eyes widened in fear and surprise when it noticed the hinges in the Lord's hand.

'Look, begging in this district is illegal, and if you don't scurry off soon I'll call The Falcons. I hear they're experimenting with a new method of execution, binding you up then dropping you off the top of the tower and hoping you get eaten by birds before you land on some unfortunate person below. You understand?'

'P-perfectly s-sir'

'Well then, take a Jack and be off.'

The beggar was stunned, but soon scurried off, cradling the coin. For Greathe it was the lowest value coin he had on him, but for the beggar it was the largest amount of money it had owned for 17 months.

Turning back to his friend, the Lord remarked, 'Only way to deal with them, you know. Carrot and stick kind of thing. Will you come for a walk with me, I have a package to pick up.'

The two walked along the market road. There were salespeople everywhere, selling only the finest goods. Delicate half-orcs and gruff elves were seen, looking over the almost (but not completely, of course) priceless pieces of art, applauding and rejecting. The Lord's friend was distracted by a wonderful platinum statue of some obscure saint, priced at 1ad, but Greathe dragged him on. There were far more important things to do.

They met a man in the centre of the main square. He was holding a small, black box, with runic carvings all over it. The thing was heavy, but for some reason Greathe had not brought a servant along to carry it. It changed hands for just a Ponce, this man was obviously just a messenger.

Greathe then, without explanation to his friend, who was thoroughly confused, held the box above his head. He shouted into the square:

'Ladies and Gentlemen of Ishka, behold the might of the Alliance!'

The box started to collapse in on itself, turning into a small, silvery, spider-like construct held in the Lord's hands. It had blades for mandibles and legs. As soon as it came into conciousness, it landed on Greathe's head. It sunk its knives deep into his porcelain skull, and destroyed the complex magical systems within. The Lord immediately died, and the diminutive assassin continued on it's quest for death, jumping from head to head, killing as it went, until it found a suitable grill and scurried into the sewers.

D'you like how I never really detailed anyone other than Greathe (and referred to the beggar as 'it') in order to show his self-obsessed nature?

[Silverscale]

So did he just knowingly pay for and accept his own death as a sort of suicide bomber? or did he think he was getting something else and part of the magic of the box possesed him and made him activate the construct?

[TheLonelyScribe]

Basically, you interpret it yourself, but my idea was that he knew what it was, but thought it would spare him for some reason. He was supposed to let it off quietly in some guy's house, but he wanted grandeur, and the construct killed him for his disobedience.

The Alliance is much to subtle to allow such public shouting of their name.

[Silverscale]

So I'm assuming that Greathe has the Living Construct subtype and as you said is well made. My question is how did a living construct become nobility?

[BLiZme.2]

some eccentric Nobel commission an here.
alternately whatever changes his arm more slowly and delicately changed his body.

hey i found a question how dose any one become a noble in Ishka? ie who makes you a noble and who if anyone can unnoble you. this helps set the stage for rich merchant buying into the true nobility ala corps bride. also do nobles have any special rights and duty's besides what there wealth brings and the respect of other nobles and there hangers on. My guess is it depends on how you and your line became a noble. ie some are just fancy peacocks. while others hereditary own major properties (i can imagine a duke of the stations, he runs what is in effect the transit corporation as a business answerable to the council and needing to turn a profit to its stock holders) and others. and some are appointed for there services and there children are not ennobled.
speaking of stock holders dose Ishka have a stock market or are all such bruising contracts done in smokey rooms and bers like when the stock market was considered gambling (relay look it up)?
And in any event we need something like lloyds of london they will insure against anything for a price.

[Silverscale]

Actually this brings up an interesting question. How many Constructs and Living Constructs do we have in Ishka. We have companies like Fabrege Construct Company who make a number of high quality constructs a year. We have a small army of Golden Warriors chilling in a cave......lets figure out some numbers here.

Also if we have Living Constructs, which it certainly seems we do, then are they Warforged or some other variation of Living Construct?


{EDIT} Ninja'd! now we have two interesting questions to ponder over.{/EDIT}

[BLiZme.2]

Most should be warforged (with out all the were all gizald vest, PTSd, angst and oh no there cant be more of us) but there is room for others like the pipe serpents from a while ago (as week as non living sentient constructs as a minority of this minority). also i think most if not all Fabrege's work is non sentient and even most of that is merely decorative like i little perfect dancing ballerina construct that cant think but will dance to any tune.

[Silverscale]

So if they're not all angsty PTS Ebberon Campaign setting Warforged, are they different enough to make a new entry for, or is it mostly just a matter of personality?

[BLiZme.2]

Imagine if the war-forged in eberon were accepted inthere society and anyone who wanted a child could comision a warforged if they could prove thay honistly whantid one in that capacity and would treat it like family. Others (humans first and the wild for two, humans first especially if the "parent" is human) may still have an issue but what ever.
same crunch new background fluff. personality wise the only changes would be caused by there environment.

[Admiral Squish]

Now, how does ishka do the warforged issue? It could be interesting to have warforged as property.

About to throw out a number of ideas:

Streetbuilders commissioned the first 'intelligent' warforged. they needed more manpower, but they couldn't supplement it with just mindless machines, the intuition and understanding is important. So, warforged were a solution. It was only after that the designs began to disseminate into large factory use, and eventually, into wealthy households (May require a special warforged type to show 'pretty' ones. I.E, Mithril and marble on mahogany flesh, more expressive faces...).

Perhaps, they are quite owned. the vast majority of warforged are either owned by factories, the streetbuilders, or private households. But an ever-increasing number of warforged are becoming self-owned. Either buying themselves from their owners, being released from their ownership by the soft-hearted ones, or simply outliving their prior owners.

We end up with three groups of warforged. those who want to join society as 'normal', those who want to free the rest of their 'brothers', and those who want to establish themselves as the masters. The first sort are by far most common. The second are less common, but still more common than the third. Their methods and motivations can vary from 'forged to 'forged. Some may try to buy their brothers out of slavery. Some may try to forcibly gain control of the creations forges. Still others will just go about their lives.

Warforged as property also adds the licensing aspect to this. Perhaps the warforged sigil on the forehead works like a brand. When freed, the sigil could either be mechanically changed by getting it filled in, or sculpted into a new shape, or it could just be a magically built-in feature, the sigil changing automatically depending on who owns it.

Anyway, bunch of weird ideas, feel free to disregard.

[Owrtho]

Don't forget the suited fire elementals for living constructs (even if they aren't really constructs).
As for warforged. First I suggest changing the name. Mainly as they aren't built for war. Not the best name, but perhaps Taskforged would work.

Also, I suggest there being two categories. There would be the majority of Taskforged which were made as living constructs, and then there would be the Streetforged.

Streetforged would be have been made as mindless constructs, but for some reason or other became living constructs. They're name comes from the fact that many have been made by exposure to freak magic accidents while performing tasks on the streets of Ishka. However, there are also those that have changed due to general prolonged exposure to the magic filled city and having the proper conditions (however most of these are much older constructs that were made before the major manufacturing companies). A streetforged would have slightly different stats from a taskforged as they would have been made as normal constructs usually for a specific job. As such they would be less well rounded and instead be specialized (likely having a few categories for general tasks and then some options in that from a Stat viewpoint).

Also, it might actually work better to swap taskforged and streetforged. Particularly if the first intentional ones were made for the streetbuilders (however for this post I'll stick with it the other way).

On the issue of ownership, I'd say that they wouldn't be officially owned. They would just be made with a contract to 'work' for the owner of the contract for some period of time that would have strict stipulations and offer little in the way of pay and benefits (supposedly to pay for the effort of making them). In actuality this would be little different from being owned (really just calling it by a better term, particularly as the contract would be transferable). The difference being that there is a time limit that they have to obey it. They also would be free to find other jobs and pursuits during the time, provided they didn't violate the contract or neglect their fork for the owner of said contract.
This would also likely lead to some of the more impatient Taskforged having Alliance ties due to having them make their 'employer' loose the contract somehow to gain freedom early. It would however usually come at the cost of aiding the alliance an amount of at least as much as was left on the contract, but the alliance would allow for lump sums and more drawn out payment (as well as freedom, as it might just be transporting the occasional box every few months, with a bonus for not knowing anything if the MI asks or helping a member hide or escape).

Owrtho

[TheLonelyScribe]

Good ideas, but, just to make an obvious point, in Ishka they wouldn't be called Warforged, as they were not forged for a war. Actually, I imagine that's what they call the terrible creatures that beat off the other country during that petty war long ago. Perhaps we ought to call 'Warforged' 'Workforged'. I think that would be good.

Also, I like the idea of Greathe being a Workforged who bought himself and slowly had himself reworked into his idea of a perfect human. The only part of him that couldn't be reworked was his arm, because of the powerful aura surrounding it of all types of magic. As you can probably guess, even after his death, Greathe will be an important character.

In fact, I imagine that, although the first were made by the Streetbuilders, Hedon quickly caught on, making the most beautiful things they could imagine (partially through illusion spells) and magically enchanting them to feel like a human.

Although Ishka is generally opposed to safety, there is always so much stuff going on, and outlawing Workforged as property would be just another job for the police and MI, making it not very worthwhile, especially as they are such a valuable workforce.

[Owrtho]

Huh, workforged does seem better than taskforged. I still think though that while they would technically be illegal to own, it would be mostly a matter of terms as most would start off with contracts that would be about the same as being owned.

Owrtho

[BLiZme.2]

Admiral Squish i like this much better plus we already know slavery is legal in ishka at least in some districts(Hedon,?Gobin?) so this works well as to the sigal i think they should stay unchanging and there owners documentation identify s them by it each is said to be unique and unchanging so that helps.

Owrtho i think that works much better then slavery they are all indentured servants this gives even the non devious ones the glimmer of hope because they are almost sure to outlive there contract barring an accident.

I also like street forged for the old "natural ones" and Workforged for the new "designed" ones.

Greathe like warfoged should be built that way not change to that his body should be representid by a set lvl 1xclusive of plaiting feets like in eberon (the eberon ones should also exist construct body guards ect)
so far we have
porcilan body: +to diplomacy, can ware armor, ???
fleshy body: +lots to diskise look living, can ware armor, +small to spot, search, listen.
my idea ? if one dose not exist in eberon a utilitarian 0% Arcanin spell failure chance plaiting option?

if no one else gets around to it i will stat these out on Sunday or Monday.

street forged could be representing as having had the spell awaken construct cast on them i think it is in Savage species or the epic level handbook.

[Silverscale]

Ok so if we have Workforged and Awakened Constructs, etc then there must be at least one Creation Forge somewhere. Is it in one of the Steamworks, in the University District, in the Market District.......? Or are there more than one? I think for a city the size of Ishka there are probably multiple Creation Forges just as there are many different people who build constructs and golems, F.C.C. just happens to be the best in the city when it comes to high quality constructs.

[BRC]

FCC sounds more like high-quality made-to-order constructs than mass-production.

The Creation Forges were designed by Cassandra, the Brass Saint, who built a working prototype, and then built the forge that created the Sleeping Army. Once the Sleeping Army had been built, the Forge was destroyed, but her prototype remained.


Later, when the Streetbuilders were stretched for manpower trying to build the Boulevard, they dug up Cassandra's old plans for a Creation forge. This wasn't as elaborate as the one that built the Sleeping army, but it was effective nonetheless.

Once Chief Engineer Marley was assassinated and the Boulevard was brought to a halt, the question of what to do with these constructs arose. Sentient constructs already existed in the city, though they had not been mass produced before. The Undead, seeing kinship with their fellow non-living sentients, campaigned hard for their freedom. Meanwhile, the city was falling apart due to Marley's focus on the Boulevard.

In the end, the next Chief Engineer, Arthur Tuftwistle, made an official decision. Workforged production would be stopped (It's expensive anyway), and the Workforged already created would work for the Streetbuilders until the city was brought back to pre-boulevard levels of stability, at which point they would be given half-wages for however long that took (not counting their time working on the Boulevard) and would become free citizens of Ishka. This repair work took 3 years, during which the Workforged more than earned their keep. In the end, Tuftwistle (Who was technically not obligated to do anything concerning the Workforged) kept his word and released them.

This led to a tradition in the city known as the Tuftwistle Contract. It's not official law, but it's widely used, and free constructs tend to come down hard on anybody who dosn't use it. The Tuftwistle Contract is that a newly created Workforged pays off the cost of their creation by working at half-wage for 3 years, during which their owner is required to keep them in repair and house them. After those 3 years, they are released.

Nowadays Workforged are not constantly produced. Several forges exist, but they are only used when somebody orders a Batch. The Streetbuilders, as a matter of policy, don't order new Batches, but they gladly hire any Workforged who have finished their Tuftwistle Contracts.

[Silverscale]

BRC, have I mentioned before that you're awesome!

This still leaves the question of Nobility. What is Nobility? How does one attain/maintain Nobility? Who can become a Noble? How does Nobility differ from say, being a council member?

[BRC]

BRC, have I mentioned before that you're awesome!

This still leaves the question of Nobility. What is Nobility? How does one attain/maintain Nobility? Who can become a Noble? How does Nobility differ from say, being a council member?

Council Members are specific offices, chosen by the leaders of the various districts.

Nobility is a fuzzier concept in Ishka, largely the term Noble is used to refer to any sufficiently wealthy citizen, but there are some proper nobles. Certain districts, especially the commons, hand out fiefs to certain individuals. There is no real Serfdom, but the noble of an area is in charge of keeping up the local watch, alerting Streetbuilders to problems, collecting taxes, solving disputes, and generally running things. There are several types of Nobles, some are official titles, and some are just attached to people who fulfill the proper requirement.


Street Noble: Example Johnathan Reley, Duke of Cartwright Street. The type of noble described above, usually appointed by the city government, which also has the right to take the title away.
Forge Baron: Example Baron Grant Lordaline of Lordaline Textiles. A Forge Baron is an unofficial title given to anybody who owns a sufficiently large factory in the steamworks.

[TheLonelyScribe]

First, I would like to say that I got ninja'd by owrtho, and actually like the term 'Taskforged' better, but, whatever, looks like we've already decided.

Points:
Presumably the price that a Workforged must pay to free themselves is equal to three years worth of their wage. Sounds about reasonable.

I think that the plating to look humanoid should be available to all Workforged, they don't have to be crafted that way, but it might take a good deal of money.

We still haven't figured out how much travel on the stations cost, and how to fix the profession skill so it makes more sense. Does everybody like my Gates-to-Jacks solution, or is there anything more complex anyone can think up?

if one dose not exist in eberon a utilitarian 0Arcanin spell ailur chanc one?

Sorry, but what? I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying in that sentence at all. Something about a cantrip?

Finally, I imagine what a noble is varies all around the place. Sometimes it's hereditary, sometimes it's a vote, sometimes it's an official appointment, sometimes you buy your way to the title etc. etc. Greathe I imagine just wanted as much status as possible and bought his way into being a Lord.


Also, next instalment in The Package will probably come either today or tomorrow, but don't hold me to it.

[BRC]

First, I would like to say that I got ninja'd by owrtho, and actually like the term 'Taskforged' better, but, whatever, looks like we've already decided.

Points:
Presumably the price that a Workforged must pay to free themselves is equal to three years worth of their wage. Sounds about reasonable.

Yeah, that's if they want to get out of Tuftwistle's contract early. Most simply work for the 3 years, during which they don't actually get any money (They get those half-wages at the end of the contract). However, other Workforged may try to buy them out of their contracts early.

[Silverscale]

We still haven't figured out how much travel on the stations cost, and how to fix the profession skill so it makes more sense. Does everybody like my Gates-to-Jacks solution, or is there anything more complex anyone can think up?

I think we've decided to go with.....

Ratsin, 1/8 of a cp (so called because it is the price of your average rat-on-a-stick, a cleaned and de-furred one usually costs a double-Ratsin)
Double-Ratsin, 1/4 of a cp
Ha'Fund, 1/2 of a cp (half a penny)
Caution's Fund (Fund), one cp
Two-Fund (Germ), two cp
Silver Fund (Jack), one sp
Electrum Fiveling (Fiver), 5 sp (made from electrum)
Gate (Ponce), 1 gp
Poppin, 5 gp
?Plain? (King), 1 pp=10g
Gold bar (?gold Pillar?)100 gp,1gb/1gi
platinum bar(?platinum Pillar?)1000gp,1gi/1pi
astral diamond (?void diamond?,?diamond piece?) 10,000pp,1ad,1dp

So going along those lines
1 Ride costs a Fund
Day Pass costs a Germ
Week Pass costs a Jack
Month Pass costs 4 Jacks
Year Pass cost a Ponce

....or if you think that's too cheap then how about
1 Ride cost a Germ
Day Pass costs a Jack
Week Pass costs a Fiver
Month Pass costs a Poppin
Year Pass costs 5 Kings

....That seems a bit expensive to me so I'ld go with the first one.

[TheLonelyScribe]

So going along those lines
1 Ride costs a Fund
Day Pass costs a Germ
Week Pass costs a Jack
Month Pass costs 4 Jacks
Year Pass cost a Ponce

Gets my vote of approval, if that amounts to anything - but the year pass seems a bit cheap compared to the rest. Maybe up it to 3 Ponce?

[Silverscale]

Actually now that I look at it it should be 4 Pounce which would be the price of 10 months

[Owrtho]

On the Tuftwistle Contract, I suggest that it be 3 years wages or the price of their construction, whichever is larger. This would mean that the person who commissioned them would be reimbursed eventually. Also they could if working a lower paying job go out and work extra jobs to pay it off faster. The main reason being that 3 years seems like it would be too short for most to much care about it. Particularly as it would be the first 3 years of their life when they're first learning things.

As for the Streetforged, they start off free already, as living constructs technically are free, and the owner of the construct has no contract for them to work for them.

Owrtho

[BRC]

On the Tuftwistle Contract, I suggest that it be 3 years wages or the price of their construction, whichever is larger. This would mean that the person who commissioned them would be reimbursed eventually. Also they could if working a lower paying job go out and work extra jobs to pay it off faster. The main reason being that 3 years seems like it would be too short for most to much care about it. Particularly as it would be the first 3 years of their life when they're first learning things.

Except that 'forged don't need to eat or sleep, and they don't tire IIRC, so you could work them pretty much 24/7 for those first 3 years.