Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator

[AngelSword]

I might be meeting her tomorrow.

[Coidzor]

What sort of meeting again?

[AngelSword]

What sort of meeting again?

At the very least, I have to voice my feelings to her, as clearly as I can.

I've been led to believe that her reasoning may have been muddled by other factors, and I have to know for sure.

[Coidzor]

Ah, worked out what you want to say to her yet?

[AngelSword]

It's a terrible mix of anger and sadness, of a strength I've never felt, that I truly don't know what to do.

[Coidzor]

Hmm. What do you want?

[Keld Denar]

I must say, Seattle is a VERY wonderful place to live if you find yourself relocating. Look into Queen Anne or Cap Hill if do end up in the neighborhood. Both are VERY fun places to be for a youngish person to be with tons of bars, restraunts, and similarly youngish persons to become friends with.

[toddex]

Well I have a problem! Im not dating this chick, im pretty much just hanging with her as friends. My friends all say shes totally into me, I disagree. I really do like her but the problem is I feel like im bricked in. I cant throw it all on the line and tell her how im into her and I think shes ****ing amazing. One of her stories she was telling me was about this guy she was friends with her confessed his devoted lover to her or something in a very weird way. Long story short she was freaked out and is not talking to him anymore (There are other factors for that also him being a general douche bag.) THE NEXT ONE was a friend of mine, and I use the term 'friend' very loosely. I am associated with him though. He was creepy enough for her to delete him from face book and the whole shabang. SO! I feel that if I were to say EXACTLY how I feel she would get freaked and the whole thing is shot. I have no idea what to do.

[Mikeavelli]

Well I have a problem! Im not dating this chick, im pretty much just hanging with her as friends. My friends all say shes totally into me, I disagree. I really do like her but the problem is I feel like im bricked in. I cant throw it all on the line and tell her how im into her and I think shes ****ing amazing. One of her stories she was telling me was about this guy she was friends with her confessed his devoted lover to her or something in a very weird way. Long story short she was freaked out and is not talking to him anymore (There are other factors for that also him being a general douche bag.) THE NEXT ONE was a friend of mine, and I use the term 'friend' very loosely. I am associated with him though. He was creepy enough for her to delete him from face book and the whole shabang. SO! I feel that if I were to say EXACTLY how I feel she would get freaked and the whole thing is shot. I have no idea what to do.

You're in the "Friend zone" and you're pretty much boned.

There's still hope, but the longer you wait, the less likely you are to ever have an actual relationship with this girl.

So for the sake of all that is good in this world TELL HER. I'm not going to lie to you, chances are she's going to say something along the lines of "I don't like you like that" - and you'll be disappointed.

However:

1. If she does say "yes, I'd love to!" You win.

2. If she says "no" than you don't have this crush hanging over your head anymore, and you can move on.

3. If she says "maybe" it really means no.

Either way, you've got some resolution.

Naturally, you have to do it right, don't be clingy or over-the-top or creepy, just ask her out, and say something along the lines of "I like you as more than a friend. Let's go out on a date." You and her alone doing something you both enjoy.

At this point, the phrase "I love you" is creepy\frightening\etc. Sounds like that's what that ******* before you said, with predictable results.

[hr]

Also, if you find yourself waiting for "the right time" you're doing it wrong. The time is right now. Work out what you're going to say, consult a friend in person that knows you two better if you have to, and call her tonight.

[xPANCAKEx]

Toddex

re the previous guys: The first guy came on WAY too strong and thats bound to scare off most people. the 2nd is a creep, so that pretty much says it all. So don't worry about them

telling her how you feel doesn;t neccisarily mean telling her EXACTLY how you feel, and sometimes keeping it simple can do wonders. In some cases, if theres mutual body language its better to say nothing but DO something about it - actions being louder than words and that jazz

those friends who have told you that shes into you, pick the one you feel is closest to her (ie: if its one of her best friends, go for them), and ask them about it next time they mention it. Ask them why they think shes into you, and see what they say... don't inquire too much, but if a few people seem to think it, its usually a case of 'no smoke without fire'

as for making a move - rejection is better than regret. Whether you say "hey. how about i take you out for a night some time?" or whether you go to kiss her its fine. If it doesn't work out, you can keep your head held high (as long as you act in a calm and confident manner through-out) and dont run a mile afterwards. If she runs a mile over meerly being asked out or someone moving in for a kiss (as long as its not done in a threatening manner) after so many people have said shes into you, then you won't face any shame or public humiliation. Infact its likely to be "really, dude... what the hell is her problem?"

be direct.
be calm
be confident

make her feel at ease in the situation and it will all work out fine

[AngelSword]

I think the reason I am trying so desperately to hold on is because she is such a unique and beautiful person that I doubt I'll find anyone like her ever again.

[Hecktar]

About telling a girl how you feel..... don't.

It seems like in most situations girls/women want boys/men to be men. And it is getting confusing with the mixed messages most guys receive about being chivalrous, caring, kind, open etc. but also rugged, stoic, protective, daring etc.

I blame the media!

Don't tell a girl how you feel. Have a good time with her. Make it fun. Make moves so she knows you want to be more than friends. If that doesn't work, telling her how you feel wouldn't have. Once you guys have been hanging out long enough having a really good time, if it seems like you're heading towards a relationship she will definitely bring it up. Just live your life as hard as it sounds and try to make her a part of it but don't stress over how to eloquently express your feelings to her so she'll fall as in love with you as you are her, because in this case regardless of what you hear experience leads me to believe, actions are a lot louder and more importantly effective than words.

Honestly, this will sound sort of jaded and cynical but telling a girl how you feel almost makes it like you're giving her the upper hand but you need to keep it as long as possible until she's too into you to give you up.

[SilentNight]

So, back again with further developments. A quick refresher, I've become interested in a girl who almost went out with my friend several months ago before he got cold feet. I talked to the friend, got the green light, and Friday night told the girl how I felt, she pretty much knew for a while. One detail that I didn't mention last time was that she's never had a boyfriend before, that's the hitch. We talked and she basically said she wasn't quite sure how she felt about me yet, also that she was incredibly nervous due to lack of experience. We basically agreed to hang out a little more and see where it goes, which was great. Now, I'm quite nervous as well, scared of scaring her off mostly. Right now my plan is to hang out some more this next week, take things very slowly and not broach the subject of us together for a while. I'm very tired and am just trying to get this out of my head. Thoughts? Advice?

[Hecktar]

^^ That there is another perfect reason not to talk about your feelings for a girl before you have to. If you're approaching things as nervous and fearful of moving towards WHAT YOU WANT when in general approaching a girl is nerve wracking she'll never see the real you. How are you supposed to have fun like that? Why would she want to be with you if she can't see the great person you are because you have to be careful around her? Girls are not bombs and when you're treating one as such things are not going well.

I am sorry to be such a downer!

My advice:

You sort of have the right idea:

"take things very slowly and not broach the subject of us together for a while."

Don't broach the subject of you two together again at all. She knows how you feel now, she will bring it up if it needs to be brought up. Have fun! Relax. Forget about what you told her and just try to make things fun for her and yourself. Go into your dates with confidence, fake it if you have to. Do not take things slow because you are afraid of ruining something that doesn't exist, if the opportunity presents itself, take it, I mean more by actions such as hand holding, kisses etc. She seems very shy so this doesn't seem like it will come any time soon anyways so that's not a big worry for you.

[Innis Cabal]

About telling a girl how you feel..... don't.

This is the worst advice ever when it comes to romantic feelings. Be honest. Sure it may hurt if you get shot down. But the worst thing she or he can say is no. Be honest with yourself, and everyone around you. You'll be surprised how many people find that attractive.

[Hecktar]

This is the worst advice ever when it comes to romantic feelings. Be honest. Sure it may hurt if you get shot down. But the worst thing she or he can say is no. Be honest with yourself, and everyone around you. You'll be surprised how many people find that attractive.

Nope. There's an enormous difference between being honest and telling a girl how you feel. I don't know where I mentioned being dishonest anywhere?

Do you see how many guys in this thread have the same problem? And how many of their posts have mention of ANOTHER guy in the girl's life 'creeping her out' by telling her how he felt? And then their strategy is to do the same thing?

If she brings it up, sure, I would completely recommend being honest with her. It's best for everyone. But bringing up your feelings for a girl before you've even went out with her will leave you with nothing but fuel for more posts in this thread.

Edit: I think the tendency of so many guys doing this is just because you're rushing things (as far as relationships go). Slow it down. Take it easy. Tease the girl a bit! Make her imagine how awesome it will be when you're together. A girl's imagination is powerful, try to use it to your benefit.

[Pyrian]

Hecktar, I think each part of your advice conflicts with each other part of your advice. "Don't say anything to her" and "don't be careful about what you say around her" are conflicting statements. Any advice automatically conflicts with "relax". And all of the prior statements conflict with "don't take it slow".

The whole thing reminds me of a joke: "Keep your eye on the ball, your ear to the ground, your nose to the grindstone, and your shoulder to the wheel; and now try to get some work done in that position!"

'Course, if a woman told me she was nervous because of her lack of experience I'd probably point out that there's an obvious treatment for that condition.

[Innis Cabal]

'Course, if a woman told me she was nervous because of her lack of experience I'd probably point out that there's an obvious treatment for that condition.

Agree with this. Though...you've got to tell her/him eventually. If they fall for you or not, you've got to tell em how you feel. Thats just how relationships work. Well thats how they work if you want them to last. Most women and men that I know don't want to wait months "being teased", they want to know if the person their with is worth the time, emotional investment and all that jazz. If not, they'll find someone who is. Then, even though you think the world of this person, their sucking face with the guy/gal who had the nerve to tell them "Your great, I want to spend more time with you".

No one is saying "give them a confession of your undying love" or how you'll be with them always on the first date. Thats...a bit much. But...after 5 dates...you can at least say you want to spend time with them. Don't tell them you love them either on the first...or even 5th date. Don't rush that word. That...that i'll agree with.

[Hecktar]

I can explain what I mean further, but I don't think you're directly quoting me anywhere so that is counting for some of the confusion.

By relax I mean be confident and don't try to rush into a relationship. Don't constantly worry and rush the relationship part of you hanging out with a girl.

I never said don't say anything to her. I said don't tell her you love her, or want to take it to the next step, or you want a relationship or any of those cliches or any original way you tell her you want to be her boyfriend.

I never said don't be careful of what you say around her either in those exact words. What I meant is humor is generally a big part of conversation between two people that are hitting it off, if you are afraid to make a joke because you're afraid it might make her think you're trying to become closer to her then you're crippling yourself.

When I say don't take it slow I am referring to actions, rather than expressing your feelings, more specifically don't let an opportunity pass by. I think most guys recognize when they have an opportunity and they over analyze whether or not they should act and lose the moment. They then try to force it later on when it would've worked great before. An opportunity could be in reference to a joke, holding hands, placing your hands on the small of her back to guide her through a door, even a smile ANYTHING.

[Hecktar]

Most women and men that I know don't want to wait months "being teased"

Heh, maybe you should read about people's situations? I haven't read all the stories but in general it seems like it's mostly young people. Their main source of info about the other person is through word of mouth from a friend, sometimes they have never even been on a date or they are very unsure of how the person feels about them. If they had been going out for months and were teasing them for that long that would be an entirely different situation... I never said you should tease someone for months so don't try to spin it that way.

There are times to express yourself and lay it on the line and there are times you need to play it cool. I don't see how you can refute that. If I could figure that out for myself in every situation and let everyone know the secret I'd be the richest man on earth.

Edit: That last paragraph makes it seem like you should always be one or the other lol, but most times are in between times where you're probably having conversation about D&D or your favourite bands!

[Hecktar]

Ugh. The dreaded triple post. I really wanted to add this though, in principle I do agree with you Innis, but it's such a touchy subject and really things like that should come up naturally. When you meet someone specifically to talk about something like that it's way too confrontational, it's like an ultimatum no matter how well you say the words.

I think most of our disagreement is because we are arguing about different situations, I am using the specific examples of people above and you are using more general hypothetical examples.

[Syka]

Telling a girl you love her right off the bat is generally a bit much, telling a girl multiple times you like her is definitely too much. Telling a girl you like her is NOT too much.

As a girl who misses many, many social cues regarding romance, if you say something you up your chances dramatically as compared to relying on body language and such. A very good guy friend of mine was evidently actually in love with me for a number of years, something I did not pick up on until a few years after the fact and then thought he'd just had a crush on me, until he, his current girlfriend (knew us back then), and my boyfriend (close friends with him) straightened me out....I would have dated him back then, too, which is the tragedy of the situation.

So sometimes, telling a girl that you are interested or like her is good. Just...don't confess undying love or try and do it multiple times, either one comes off as creepy. I don't mind the confessions of liking, I've gotten a number of them from guys I don't like romantically but whom I do enjoy as friends. The only one who ever creeped me out was the guy who persisted after I outright told him I was not interested in anything more and persisted whilst I'd been dating someone else with no interest of dating others in the meantime (which I made quite obvious by saying it).

[snoopy13a]

'Course, if a woman told me she was nervous because of her lack of experience I'd probably point out that there's an obvious treatment for that condition.

I once flippantly said to a woman that I was making out with at a keg party who said that she was a virgin: "Well, there's a first time for everything". Not exactly the most tactful response

As for the guy stuck in the dreaded "friend zone", you have a choice to make. You can either be satisfied with the current situation or you can risk the platonic friendship and ask her out. It really depends on what you want. However, note that she might reject you simply because she doesn't want to risk your friendship. The litmus test for this is: "You're like a brother to me". Once she says that, there is absolutely no chance of romance

Additionally, the story about the former friend who "confessed his love" may be a hint that she isn't interested in you and that she doesn't want you to ask her out.

[Syka]

I once flippantly said to a woman that I was making out with at a keg party who said that she was a virgin: "Well, there's a first time for everything". Not exactly the most tactful response

At least you were making out with her at the time and, presumably, close in age. A 25ish year old asked 15 year old me if I was a virgin, and upon my response of yes he asked "Wanna change that?"

*shudder* He knew my age, too. It wasn't an "oh, I thought you were over 18", which I've gotten before. That guy was a full on creeper. It coming from a guy I was seeing at the time, although not for long at that point, it was significantly less creepy. Mood killer, but not creepy.

[Mikeavelli]

However, note that she might reject you simply because she doesn't want to risk your friendship.

This is the worst possible reason for a girl to reject a guy.

[hr]

Hecktar is giving good advice for a certain set of people. Confident people who know how to pull off everything he's describing. You have to be able to strike that balance between being too aggressive ("OMGILOVEYOU") and being too passive (the "friends zone").

Unfortunately, most people who try to subtly flirt with women over a long period of time, tease them until they're interested, etc. do it badly, and end up in the friends zone until that becomes too much and they swing over to the entirely too aggressive declaration of undying love. By all means, work at it, try to get your social skills to the point where you're capable of doing what Hecktar is suggesting.

But unless you're already capable of it (in which case you wouldn't be asking for advice here) - chances are you're going to fall into the trap.

Which is why I'm going to stick with the simple straightforward advice of just telling them. Again, not "I love you so much" - just a "I like you a lot, let's go out sometime."

[Dallas-Dakota]

Random tips:

Confidence = Sexy
Good hygiene = Well, not sexy but really, if you're in the romance scene, It's best to have it.
(I'm currently imagining a girl coming up to a boy and saying:'' Oh boy, you're sooo sexy, I just can't resist your good hygiene.''
)
Shy-ness= Can be sexy or intrigueing, just not too much. Remember, hints. Or just show some attaction. If he's thick. Just tell him/her you like him. Telling him/her you love him is over the top. >.>

Sex: Do what you want because a pirate is free! Except if you have moral/religious guidelines/rules you're following. And it's really best to do it safe. And don't push your partner till he/she wants to/feels comfortable enough.

On a second note, that doesn't sound very piratey after all. >.>

[Keld Denar]

On a second note, that doesn't sound very piratey after all. >.>

More like guidelines anyway...

[Umael]

AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

*snarl*

Okay, I am NOT coming in this thread to ask for advice! It's just... frustrating!

It's more... why is society like this!?

...

Okay, here's the sting.

I have only two people at work that I call friends - just me being picky, I'm totally okay with that. Turns out that one of them, M., went with her friend to be her wingman (wingwoman). Her friend has her eye on a particular guy and since he was hosting a party and invited her friend, said friend invited M. to come along. Said man seemed to be interested in her friend, her friend was very giddy and happy and much goodness is in the air.

Now I overhear M. (I was less than six feet away at the time) talking about this party to another co-worker, E., and how M. approves of this guy, etc., etc. I make the comment, half-teasing, that if her friend wasn't interested in the guy, would she be making a pass herself?

Absolutely not.

Apparently she believes that it breaks some kind of cultural taboo that if your girl friend (not girlfriend) is dating, has dated, or is thinking about dating some guy, he is FOREVER off the list of potential dates.

Furthermore, and this is the part that starts the frustration, this is some kind of cultural taboo that M., E., and at least two other co-workers share! When I confessed my confusion why such a notion should even exist, they took it like it was practically gospel.

It makes just as little sense for woman to turn to her friend, point out a guy, and say, "I'm interested - he's mine!" and expect her friend to agree to this and never show any sign of being interested (even if she was), as it does for anyone, male or female, in a jealous fit, to forbid their boy/girlfriend from ever being alone with ANYONE s/he doesn't approve first.

It's like being a virgin - each person should weigh carefully when they want to change that status, and if s/he wants to wait until after marriage, it is her/his choice, more power to them - but they have NO right to claim their choice gives them any kind of moral authority or higher ground or follows "the way it should be", which in turn means everyone else should follow suit!

[/rant]

*exhales*

Okay, I feel better.

[Keld Denar]

There's a similar rule in the Manlaws, but I believe its circumventable in the "REALLY HOT" clause or the "Case of Beer" clause. Even for their complexity, I'm so glad that the Manlaws have nothing on the complexity that is the female mind...

[Dallas-Dakota]

I do believe that falls under the clauses of ''uberhot'' and ''drunk''.