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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    I've been playing a PathFinder Sorcerer with the Aberrant bloodline and I'm really starting to like the Aberrant Reach class feature. It extends your reach by an additional 5 - 15 feat depending on your level. Combined with enlarge person and the SpC's Corrosive Grasp it's borderline broken, but a ton of fun. I'd like to make more use of it, but touch spells are something that I've historically used out of combat, rather than in it.

    In your opinions, which touch spells give you the best bang for the buck at each spell level when combined with some extra reach?

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    Malacode's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Shivering Touch, 3rd level IIRC. Found in Frostburn. Even without extended reach, that is a =scary= spell. 3d6 dex damage (Or is it drain?) Lesser Shivering Touch is pretty good/bad too.
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malacode View Post
    Shivering Touch, 3rd level IIRC. Found in Frostburn. Even without extended reach, that is a =scary= spell. 3d6 dex damage (Or is it drain?) Lesser Shivering Touch is pretty good/bad too.
    Thanks. I'll look that one up. It would pair well with touch of idiocy.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    One of the best: Otto's Irresistible Dance! Level 8 no save spell that makes opponent practically helpless for a dozen turns. There's the Mind-Affecting tag that sucks, but beyond that it's awesome.
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    One of the best: Otto's Irresistible Dance! Level 8 no save spell that makes opponent practically helpless for a dozen turns. There's the Mind-Affecting tag that sucks, but beyond that it's awesome.
    Are there any items or feats or metamagics that will let you get around the mind-affecting problem?

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    If my lapsing memory isn't betraying me, the Dread Witch PrC from HoH has one of those adaption thingies that lets it ignore mind-affecting immunity (it normaly only ignores fear immunity).
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Shivering Touch, enhanced with metamagic, is utterly broken. Even without it, it's still overpowered - any creature with low Dex risk being instantly beaten, no save.

    When you have reach as well, then it's just silly. A maximised Shivering Touch beats a Great Wyrm.

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    If your DM knows about mysteries (from tome of magic) you could research and reflavor Umbral Touch as a 3rd level spell. Practically 1 touch / level, 5d6 untyped damage and slow (fortitude negates) per hit. Might not beat Shivering touch but versus cold immune creatures and those immune to ability damage (shivering touch doesn't affect them) the slow is super handy, not to mention it lasting for the majority of the encounter.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Shiver Touch is so awesome. It can one shot a Great Wyrm with rolling only slightly above average. Now, something original:

    Vampiric Touch is not terrible for a 3rd level spell if you are a Duskblade. A level 13 Duskblade hits 3 people and does 2d4+6d6 and gains Temporary Hit Points.

    Disintegrate is a Ranged Touch Spell that will pretty much fry anything that does not make the Fortitude Save. It's also great in a siege-type situation when you can blow a hole in the enemy's wall to allow troops to flood in.

    Ray of Exhaustion. Save or be Exhausted, Save and be Fatigued. Casting 2 Chained Ray of Exhaustion will make everyone hit by the rays be Exhausted.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zergrusheddie View Post
    Vampiric Touch is not terrible for a 3rd level spell if you are a Duskblade. A level 13 Duskblade hits 3 people and does 2d4+6d6 and gains Temporary Hit Points.

    Disintegrate is a Ranged Touch Spell that will pretty much fry anything that does not make the Fortitude Save. It's also great in a siege-type situation when you can blow a hole in the enemy's wall to allow troops to flood in.

    Ray of Exhaustion. Save or be Exhausted, Save and be Fatigued. Casting 2 Chained Ray of Exhaustion will make everyone hit by the rays be Exhausted.
    I'll definitely look into vampiric touch. The other two are definitely good spells, but I'm specifically looking for melee touch spells.

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Every spell level above 3rd is just Shivering Touch in varying states of metamagic modification.
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    To hell with your reach. I cast Spectral Hand. And, on another note, I have now banned Shivering Touch from the games I run. I haven't taken a look at it yet, but...damn! That's a terrifying spell.

    But I digress.

    0 Level: Touch of Fatigue (It's the only one that applies in the Core Rules. >>)

    1st Level: Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp. Chill Touch is an excellent, underused spell, especially if you happen to be fighting a lot of undead. Flee, you mindless wretches, flee! Shocking Grasp does a decent amount of damage, but it's terribly overused, especially by you silly Shocking Grasp + Blade of Blood duskblades.

    2nd Level: Darkness. That's right friends and neighbors, Darkness be a touch spell! You gotta touch a rock or something to make it work; doesn't just pop into being. With a 10-15 foot reach, you can do all sorts of fun things with that. Ghoul Touch. Muahahah! Your butt is paralyzed and your buddies are sickened. Suck it. Touch of Idiocy is perhaps my favorite low-level offensive touch spell ever. I mean...really though! Not only is it useful against enemy spellcasters, but you can reduce the effectiveness of classes with low will saves...swashbucklers are perfect example!

    3rd Level: Vampiric Touch. An excellent spell, one I immensely enjoyed putting on a lich villain of mine (He gets to combine his lich touch attack with his touch spells...and when you're using Spectral Hand? Ow!). It can't kill a person, it can only reduce them to near death...of freakin' darn! Stab them with a bloody knife for crying out loud!

    4th Level: Bestow Curse. Perhaps the most evil spell designed by sorcerer/wizards everywhere. Its myriad uses make it the most versatile evil spell evar. (Especially if you have access to Greater Bestow Curse. But that doesn't count as 4th level). I love combining this spell with spells like Touch of Idiocy and Vampiric Touch. It's an absolutely crippling combination!
    Contagion. Eh. I prefer Bestow Curse. The DC is higher than Touch of Idiocy's, but Touch of Idiocy is a more broad-effecting spell. While useful, and certainly effective against the right opponent, you get more bang for your spell-slot with Bestow Curse.

    5th Level: Blight. More practical uses than combat uses. How often do you really fight giant plants? Honestly. However, you CAN use it to get rid of the Heart Tree of the Elven forest. Why? Well, cuz you can.

    6th Level: So sad; no offensive 6th level touch spells in the Core Rulebook.

    7th Level: Plane Shift. The focus is annoying, but if you start collecting enough, it's a deadly, truly annoying offensive spell. "Is Erythnul really that bad guys? Why are we fight his cult?" "Why don't you go ask him?" *PLORT*
    Teleport Object: Normally not that useful in combat...you would think. "Wow, nice +5 greatsword. I'll enjoy plane-shifting to the Ethereal Plane later to collect it." "Ah, did your armor disappear? How sad." "Wait a second...aren't constructs technically objects?" Need I say more?

    8th Level: Irresistible Dance. It's already been said, but...wow! What an awesome spell! Take that you stoic fighter, you oh-so-serious mage. Dance like a monkey! DANCE!
    Temporal Stasis. "I don't really feel like fighting you. Say goodbye to this timeline!" It doesn't kill them, but it removes them from combat (And everything else) quite effectively. Other people can come along and remove the effect, but you can also build a dungeon around them. Hmmm...that sounds like the start of a campaign... *Scribbles that down for later.

    9th Level: Imprisonment. Oof, what a mean, nasty spell. Cruel, arrogant..."I don't need to kill you, I'll just shove you into the center of the earth for the rest of your miserable life. *Shudder.* Just plain nasty. Rather useful against annoying party members, because they'll probably be suffering that annoying -4 to their save.

    Whoo, that was a bit longer than I meant it to be! Hope that was useful!
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    That's a whole different kind of useful. I think my DM is going to cry now.

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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Hm. Trying to remember some Spell Compendium spells.

    Vulnerability (I think that's the name) reduces their damage reduction, will save negates. There's also one similar for Energy resistance.

    I think there's also a touch spell in there where your touch bestows negative levels.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Yeah, I'm typing this on an IPhone, so it would take too long to quote. Okay, the coolness of touch of idiocy, is that gets no save. What's also cool is maximizing the spell, -6 to int,wis, and cha, all for a 5th lvl spell slot

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    Banned
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Do NOT use Shivering Touch. It will be so much *I win* that the DM will simply up the touch AC of everything you encounter, or just give them a lot of reach and have them put holes in you faster than you can close on them.

    As for dragons, if you're in a game with Shivering Touch abuse, expect any dragon that can cast it to have Scintillating Scales up all the time.

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schylerwalker View Post
    Touch of Idiocy is perhaps my favorite low-level offensive touch spell ever. I mean...really though! Not only is it useful against enemy spellcasters, but you can reduce the effectiveness of classes with low will saves...
    I'd even go so far as to say it's worth Maximizing up to 5th level. Sucking 6 points per round out of all the spellcasting stats makes enemy casters useless PDQ.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Overwhelm, from PHBII. Best melee touch spell ever. (disables touched creature with nonlethal damage, Will negates)

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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclocone View Post
    If my lapsing memory isn't betraying me, the Dread Witch PrC from HoH has one of those adaption thingies that lets it ignore mind-affecting immunity (it normaly only ignores fear immunity).
    Where is this adaptation? Removing mind-affecting immunity is something I have been trying to do for a long time.

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazddndfreek View Post
    Overwhelm, from PHBII. Best melee touch spell ever. (disables touched creature with nonlethal damage, Will negates)
    I agree. Shivering Touch is a save free pile of mean, but Overwhelm holds a special place in my heart.
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    Are there any items or feats or metamagics that will let you get around the mind-affecting problem?
    The metamagic feat Song of the Dead from Dragon #312 let's you get around that for intelligent undead, but that's the only one I know of.
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schylerwalker View Post
    To hell with your reach. I cast Spectral Hand.

    3rd Level: Vampiric Touch. An excellent spell, one I immensely enjoyed putting on a lich villain of mine (He gets to combine his lich touch attack with his touch spells...and when you're using Spectral Hand? Ow!). It can't kill a person, it can only reduce them to near death...of freakin' darn! Stab them with a bloody knife for crying out loud!
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Scorching Ray. Only what, level 2? Still, quite solid damage. Sure, sure, I know...blasting hp away is unoptimal.

    As long as it's enough hp to instagib anything level appropriate, nuking hp works just fine.
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    You should mention in the title that it's melee touch. Many people seem to be not reading the actual post (or missing the crucial bits) and just assuming any touch.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    I have a personal affinity for Greater Bestow Curse from Races of Destiny. Target has a 25% chance of acting? Reduce an ability score to 1? Remove curse doesn't do a thing to it? Yes please.

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Combust (lv2 Sor/Wiz, SpC) is a good damage dealer, especially at lower levels.

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex View Post
    Combust (lv2 Sor/Wiz, SpC) is a good damage dealer, especially at lower levels.
    I love Combust. Great spell, especially since you can light things on fire with it with an amazing amount of ease.

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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Bestow Curse is okay, but Clerics get access to it sooner.

    Really, Clerics do better being the touch attack mastah (barring Shivering Touch cheese), what with Harm and all the Inflict spells. Slay Living is at 5th level, which is fairly obnoxious at 9th level when you get it.

    Better still, the extra reach means being able to hit your allies with cure/fixit spells a lot easier.

    So yea, reach helps out clerics more than arcanists, but hey, if you're a Planters guy... go nuts.
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    Ooh, and Planeshift is actually on the aberrant sorcerer list too! :D

    I like Ghoul Touch, by the way. 1d6+2 rounds is quite solid at 3rd level (when you can first do 10ft reach!), and the target only gets 1 saving throw, unlike hold person. It's a fortitude save-or-die at 2nd level, which is relatively uncommon. Plus you can sicken nearby people, which is probably a mixed bag. Though it's only against a living humanoid, which is a bummer.
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    Default Re: Best Touch Spells Per Level [3.5]?

    It seems someone has a thing for Necromancy...
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