I need tips on how to avoid railroading.

[Sharkman1231]

So our DM sliced open a couple of fingers trying to open and door by pushing on the glass...glass broke...blood everywhere...hospital...stiches. So now he can't DM(becuase he can't prepare). So I took over. I started my campain at lvl 1. I have the first adventure prepared but my player really don't like railroading, too bad thats what the previous DM did a lot. I'm letting my players be evil and they are very happy about that. I have a large scale campain map made, so how should I make adventures where they might kill any quest-giver or go off through the middle of the wilderness?

Also I don't want to make the NPC quest-givers 8th lvl when the players are in a village. Like my 1 lvl player's current quest-giver is a 3rd lvl constable warrior.So they could take him.

[Kylarra]

Sandbox it. Just write a lot of different quests and areas that they can explore. If they kill people, well scratch off that quest and be prepared to transplant it later if you want.

Since this is an evil campaign, I'd pretty much be prepared for them to off any and all NPCs, so the solution is to just make none of them important. If you want to have some sort of backstory going on throughout, go for it, but remember that the proto-typical good vs evil motivations won't work, you'll be focusing on making things relevant via revenge, loot, and lol-factor, depending on the makeup of your evil group.

[RagnaroksChosen]

well maybe you can make the campaign where there is no quest giver find out what goals the characters have and prepare around that?

and remember in evil games if they get to be evil so can you.

[BobVosh]

Sandbox it. Just write a lot of different quests and areas that they can explore. If they kill people, well scratch off that quest and be prepared to transplant it later if you want.

Since this is an evil campaign, I'd pretty much be prepared for them to off any and all NPCs, so the solution is to just make none of them important. If you want to have some sort of backstory going on throughout, go for it, but remember that the proto-typical good vs evil motivations won't work, you'll be focusing on making things relevant via revenge, loot, and lol-factor, depending on the makeup of your evil group.

This. Good is mainly reactive. Evil is mainly proactive. They should be set to do things on thier own. Give hints of places (later obviously) they can conquer. Give them the generic goblin/kobold fights...and make it so they can become minions for later conquests. Play overlord to realize the pure, raw power you just gave them!

Seriously though evil games can be a lot of fun if the players are trying to be smart evil starting at about 5. If they are dumb evil expect to run a game where players just turn on each other.

Also themed evil can be a lot of fun. I've played a goblin, half orc, and orc campaign. Worked well. Basically we were sent out to grab tribute, break some knees where knees need breaking, and other almost mafia type stuff.

[Sipex]

Strictly on the topic of not-railroading:

1) Nothing is set in stone until you tell your PCs that it is. If they kill an NPC who had a quest for them that they never knew about...well...move the quest to somewhere they may access if they wish. This allows the quest to be available to them if they want it but doesn't restrict them to having to do it either.

2) Be flexible. If they do something or want to do something the answer is never NO...at least not off the bat. Let them explain themselves and figure out if what they want to do is feasable...or at least attemptable. If they're going to do something extremely dangerous just let them know that before they run off to their deaths.

3) There is no story, there are events that have happened and motivations of npcs to make future events happen. Figure out your NPCs goals and have them move towards them how you figure they should. If the heroes (villains) interfere or aid, have them react accordingly.

[valadil]

Don't write plot. Write NPCs. Those NPCs can have their own plotty shenanigans. Have the NPCs running things in the background. Let them react as the players cause mischief. If an NPC gets himself murdered, let his NPC friends come after the players.

I find this kind of game to be a lot easier to run. You don't have to think of anything - you just react. And the players will be on board with all your plots, because they are the source of those plots.

[woodenbandman]

Your PCs must all be friends.

For whatever reason you can come up with, in any campaign (especially an evil one), your PCs will all be friends, or at least work for the same organization. If they don't have that connection immediately, many players will start killing each other for no reason at all. Make them come up with it if you have to.

Other than that, go for it

[Kylarra]

Your PCs must all be friends.

For whatever reason you can come up with, in any campaign (especially an evil one), your PCs will all be friends, or at least work for the same organization. If they don't have that connection immediately, many players will start killing each other for no reason at all. Make them come up with it if you have to.

Other than that, go for it

All friends is a bit of a stretch. I'd settle for "non-hostile" and "willing to work with others within reason". Perhaps "mutual respect" or somesuch.

[woodenbandman]

^Very well, but this is really important. Don't just expect your PCs to work together. Make them go through training missions, or natural disasters which they survive. You just have to make sure that they will work together and not kill each other, because while that's a perfectly acceptible solution in-game, out-of-game it will piss people off.

[Kylarra]

^Very well, but this is really important. Don't just expect your PCs to work together. Make them go through training missions, or natural disasters which they survive. You just have to make sure that they will work together and not kill each other, because while that's a perfectly acceptible solution in-game, out-of-game it will piss people off.

Yeah I'd agree that you shouldn't expect them to just work together. I'll even take it a step further and suggest that early combat might need to be a bit lighter as "evil" characters are less likely to immediately jump to the aid of their "allies".

[Skorj]

Sandbox it. Just write a lot of different quests and areas that they can explore. If they kill people, well scratch off that quest and be prepared to transplant it later if you want.

Since this is an evil campaign, I'd pretty much be prepared for them to off any and all NPCs, so the solution is to just make none of them important. If you want to have some sort of backstory going on throughout, go for it, but remember that the proto-typical good vs evil motivations won't work, you'll be focusing on making things relevant via revenge, loot, and lol-factor, depending on the makeup of your evil group.

This is great advice, but it can be hard for a new DM to get his head around it. Let me try to add explanation.

Come up with interesting series of encounters, but don't set them in any particular place, merely note the "terrain type". If you have 3-4 related encounters in a city, they can happen in any city. Have a dungeon level in mind? You can put the dungeon anywhere theme-appropriate. Have an ambush in the mountains? Set it anywhere in any mountains. Decide "what but not where".

Similarly, for NPCs decide "what but not who". Have a good quest hook that a rogue needs to deliver, and an interesting backstory for said rogue? Don't tie it to any particular individual until you see how the party reacts. You need decide on no more than obvious personality traits when a party first enounters an NPC. Once the party meets an NPC they don't kill, have that guy deliver the quest hook, decide he's the one with the cool backstory you worked out, etc.

You want to prep a somewhat broad but shallow set of encounters associated with quest hooks, plus some random encounters. If the party is in a town near some hills and a forest, prep a town, forest, and hill storyline with a couple encounters for each, plus a few all-purpose "travel encounters" (these are critical if the party just decides to move to a differe continent or something). You don't need more than 1 gaming session's worth of prep in any one "direction".

Once the party commits to a direction (i.e., they find it interesting and bite your plot hook), then prep in depth in that direction before the next session. You still have the basics for the other directions "cooked" if the party decides to abandon the plot hook.

A sandbox world takes surprisingly little more detailed prep than a railroad, once you get the hang of it. However, you must have a high-level understanding of everything that's going on in your world. If the party throws a dart at the map and goes there, make sure you know the kinds of terrain, the kinds of people and critters that are common there, and the dominant political groups. But you don't need to know any of that beyond 1-paragraph descriptions, because you can add detail to whatever the party gets close to as they approach.

When you get good at this, it will seem as if you've statted out every creature and mapped every squre foot of an entire planet, when in fact you're extemporizing from a few pages of notes.

[Raum]

I have the first adventure prepared but my player really don't like railroading, too bad thats what the previous DM did a lot.

Avoiding railroading is simple though not necessarily easy. Simply don't plan a PC's action (not even whether or not they'll go to X location or accept quest Y) and never make a decision for a player.

I'm letting my players be evil and they are very happy about that.

I recommend having the players come up with an in-character reason they're together and trusting each other. Unless you want PC vs PC combat at some point.

I have a large scale campain map made, so how should I make adventures where they might kill any quest-giver or go off through the middle of the wilderness?

Make your NPCs proactive. They should have goals and be flexible about how they reach said goals. Most of all, they're trying to accomplish their goals whether the PCs get involved or not. So don't make the goal world-destroying unless you want to chance the PCs walking away or even assisting with the destruction.

Also I don't want to make the NPC quest-givers 8th lvl when the players are in a village. Like my 1 lvl player's current quest-giver is a 3rd lvl constable warrior.So they could take him.

First, don't have a "quest giver" if you're trying to stay off the tracks. Instead use a variety of events, NPCs, rumors, and news. Let the PCs choose their path - that's the essence of getting off the railroad.

Have fun!

[Dr_Emperor]

Don't write plot. Write NPCs. Those NPCs can have their own plotty shenanigans. Have the NPCs running things in the background. Let them react as the players cause mischief. If an NPC gets himself murdered, let his NPC friends come after the players.

I find this kind of game to be a lot easier to run. You don't have to think of anything - you just react. And the players will be on board with all your plots, because they are the source of those plots.

This, and a sandbox, put another way write up lots of little adventures that could be placed anywhere. Then come up with a few named NPC's with different goals like, save world, destroy world, marry princess, stop evil, conquer world, make crazy magic items. I actually find this works best if the PC's mutually agree with you to create a home base, rather than stumbling into every adventure in random towns. Works with good and evil groups.

[Elfin]

This is great advice, but it can be hard for a new DM to get his head around it. Let me try to add explanation.
[...]

This is great advice; probably the best way to create a sandbox campaign.

[rezplz]

Learn to improvise. When I do my DMing, I've always been a very improvising-focused DM. Sure, I'll set up a quest. I'll do some minor preperation for it (ALWAYS the night before, never any earlier than that). There will be an issue that needs solved. Sometimes I will even set up a guy that can lead to a bigger guy which leads, far later on, to a big boss guy. But really, I let the players do whatever they want.

You know, as long as they aren't PURPOSELY trying to screw around with things. I usually hit them with the DM guide.

But other than that, whatever they do I'll adapt to it. While it's never happened, if they didn't want to do the quest I had prepared I'd be fine with it - I can always improvise something else by looking in the monster manual for a bit.

Instead of specific plot progression, have characters in mind, and keep in mind how they would react to different situations. That way, no matter what the PCs throw at you, you should be able to act appropriately.

Railroading rarely works because if you expect the PCs to go right, they will go left.




If you want to actually put a lot of preparation into it, then prepare multiple quests and leave it open for the PCs to go different routes. But I'm usually far too lazy for that.

And I'll stop ranting now.

[Hawriel]

There is never just ONE hook to start a quest. Things like troublesome orcs, the thieves guild, the old hermit mage in the tower, or the pissed of militant druids effect more than just one NPC. They effect the whole village, town, county. There will be alot of peaple who are effected by a plot in different ways.

Also there can be more than one plot to follow. Some of which my be integrated with others.

[Kylarra]

Learn to improvise. When I do my DMing, I've always been a very improvising-focused DM. Sure, I'll set up a quest. I'll do some minor preperation for it (ALWAYS the night before, never any earlier than that). There will be an issue that needs solved. Sometimes I will even set up a guy that can lead to a bigger guy which leads, far later on, to a big boss guy. But really, I let the players do whatever they want.

You know, as long as they aren't PURPOSELY trying to screw around with things. I usually hit them with the DM guide.

But other than that, whatever they do I'll adapt to it. While it's never happened, if they didn't want to do the quest I had prepared I'd be fine with it - I can always improvise something else by looking in the monster manual for a bit.

Instead of specific plot progression, have characters in mind, and keep in mind how they would react to different situations. That way, no matter what the PCs throw at you, you should be able to act appropriately.

Railroading rarely works because if you expect the PCs to go right, they will go left.




If you want to actually put a lot of preparation into it, then prepare multiple quests and leave it open for the PCs to go different routes. But I'm usually far too lazy for that.

And I'll stop ranting now.

Improvisation is an invaluable skill for a DM, but this sort of half-arsed (no offense intended) preparation of a campaign has left me rather unsatisfied with previous DMs. Particularly for a first-time DM*, get your notes in order and have an idea of what you want sorts of quests/encounters you want available, don't get attached to specific areas. Like Skorj said, with a little effort...

it will seem as if you've statted out every creature and mapped every squre foot of an entire planet, when in fact you're extemporizing from a few pages of notes.

*More experienced DMs can get away with it, as it becomes easier to gauge party strengths and relative power levels compared to monsters on the fly, not to mention you'll have a small repertoire of encounters in your head already, that you're just refluffing, essentially the same as what you did earlier, but without hardwritten notes.

[Fri]

There's a nice quote that I think had been signatured by someone else here.

Railroading isn't saying 'there's a wall there'

Railroading is saying 'there are walls everywhere but there'

[xPANCAKEx]

don;t offer things up on a plate - let the players decide which threads to tug at


they're more likely to screw over a good samaritan, but happily join a theives guild or some such - and in those places they can slowly work up the rungs ot the power structure

unless they're CE - then let them pillage and burn

[Douglas]

There's a nice quote that I think had been signatured by someone else here.

Railroading isn't saying 'there's a wall there'

Railroading is saying 'there are walls everywhere but there'

Kind of like this comic.

[Lysander]

About evil PCs killing villagers because its fun:

Sure, powerful warriors should be able to wipe out pretty much anyone living in a small village. But that village is part of a kingdom that has an army, bounty hunters, hired wizards, etc. If they kill the bounty hunters, better bounty hunters get sent. If they kill enough bounty hunters they have paladins coming after them. If they kill enough paladins there'll be an army coming after them with spellcaster support. If they kill the army of that kingdom, other nations send a joint force. If that massive force is killed off various archmages and epic level clerics from around the world come to stop the growing threat. Unless your party wants to fight everyone in the world they have to play evil smart.

Evil Smart is like the mafia. They operate ruthlessly and secretively, kill opponents, bribe politicians, threaten innocents, amass fortunes, but they don't just kill on a whim. I suppose your characters could be roving serial killers but serial killers don't amass fortunes.

[rezplz]

Kylarra: Yeah, you do have a point there. Until the OP really gets the hand of making up stuff on the fly and making it seem prepared, notes are pretty much required.

[Rixx]

A good tip is to ask your players what they plan to do the next session once the session ends, and then prepare for that. Your players are still entirely in control of the plot, and you still have time to prepare.

[Ormur]

You can have a campaign with an overreaching goal without railroading. If you design the world in enough detail and let the stuff they are fighting against be momentous enough everything they do will somehow connect to the main plot. Create interconnected NPC concepts and locations they might visit at some point but wait for them to go there or be diverted there to flesh them out as level appropriate.
They could decide between many different routes and get different perspectives on the main plot. There is a small village ravaged by the war, a city preparing for it, mercenaries being recruited in the outback and spies working behind the lines at another place.

[shadzar]

Same crazy idea I give to all new DMs. Whether you continue to DM after your old DM is healed or not is up to you.....

Start with the most railroady thing you can...a published adventure. This will give you a chance to get the feel of the group to know what they consider to be railroading and what isn't. You will also settle into the role of DM. Even a seasoned DM can use this to go back and retrain themselves as the game changes over time and the players change and want to try new things.

If you want a campaign you will need the feel first for your group, or while waiting to return to your original campaign, you could just play a bunch of loosley connected adventures. They may be railroady, but they are short so people don't feel like they are being dragged through the whole game. Just let the player choose how this loose campaign will go after each adventure. Heck if they want to abandon one in the middle for something else, then let them choose another adventure, that is not heavily plot driven from completing the previous part of it, and just segway into it somehow to get them going on it.

Just try not to use adventures you have played to death, or something you all hope to play (the old DM wants to run) in the near future.

Just try to make sure no matter what happens it looks like the players decided to do it and came up with the idea, and you can railroad them for years without them knowing it.

[ericgrau]

Evil PCs will often run off the tracks whether you like it or not. I'm not saying they should be played like that, but they often are. Just gotta be prepared in case they do whatever they want.

[Mazed]

See, there's one nice thing about evil PCs.
Good guys; they're reactive. Unless they're A) zealous jerks or B) incredibly insightful, they have to face evil wherever it first arises. This is why typical heroic adventures are easy to "railroad" (even if it doesn't always feel that way). You usually just end up having to give them something to fight before they feel they can really do much, at least in many cases.
Evil, however? Evil is proactive. Evil wants to exploit the populace, victimize the innocent, cheat the honest, win through treachery, and take over the world. Stuff like that.
This is why if you've got a pretty good group, and you don't mind indulging in the black humor such a ride's going to lead you through, Evil-PC adventures can be glorious things.
You may have to remind the players of this if they're not used to being evil, of course, but once they've clued in, it usually doesn't take much further prompting.
Just set up your sandbox, let them work their agenda, and enjoy the fun.

[Skorj]

Evil, however? Evil is proactive.... Evil wants to exploit the populace, victimize the innocent, cheat the honest, win through treachery, and take over the world. Stuff like that.
This is why if you've got a pretty good group, and you don't mind indulging in the black humor such a ride's going to lead you through, Evil-PC adventures can be glorious things.
You may have to remind the players of this if they're not used to being evil, of course, but once they've clued in, it usually doesn't take much further prompting.
Just set up your sandbox, let them work their agenda, and enjoy the fun.

It's not that hard to bait evil PCs, though. Greed, envy, the need for status/recognition, and especially the need for revenge work well. Revenge is the easiest: give the players some cool toys, and then take those toys away. One "that bastage broke my +5 Sword Of Inflicting Disfiguring Necrosis and Hideously Painful Blisters" is worth a dozen dead relatives in a backstory.

Status/competition works as well: given them a rival evil party that sometimes beats them to goals, robs them just as the leave the dungeon, etc (all the stuff you'd feel bad about doing to a good party), and then gets rewarded by the BBEG at the party's expense for being a better evil party!

Uppity paladins, are great too, if a bit cliche.

Once you create some NPCs the players really hate, you can drag them around the sandbox by their noses.

[Kaun]

A true DM can railroad there players into the ground with out them ever realizing it .

Seriously though its all about picking what directions you would prefer them to take and stacking the odds in favor of them choosing that direction. I find the players that complain the most about railroading are usually the ones who will avoid DMing like tanks avoid rust monster lairs.