Xenotheurgy: Far Realms magic system

[Fako]

As has been said many times, this is an amazing system, and i'm but one of the many drones people eagerly awaiting the release.

While I can't contribute much, I do at least have one idea to help with the "text heavy" argument. If you create a separate sheet for each breach, you could simply grab your three active breaches from the pile at the start of each day, which would help to reduce the text you need on-hand, similar to a detailed spell sheet.

I've made an example (found here) for the Blasphemous Avenger, and I can make more if people want me to. It has all the breaches listed, as well as a few boxes to count uses, days since incursion, and the murmur level... nothing fancy, but it's a start...

[Owrtho]

I'm not sure about others, but I think that could be quite handy.

Owrtho

[Realms of Chaos]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I have returned.

Don't ask me how I managed to jerryrig an internet connectiion on my computor and can use it to access my Xenotheurgy document online. My computor has all but burst into flames but like a 20th level knight, I shall not fall.

[Owrtho]

Huza, tis great new. Now you can resume your work of cursing the world with this frabjous magic system.

Owrtho

[Desmond Tiny]

I personnally would love to read the codex vessania if you deside to write it. What I mean is that you could write larger sections of it just for the purpose of fluff. Also I look forward to more breaches. I have read this project from the beggining and it is awesome. I think empowerment is a cool mechanic but could be abused by intentionally weakening the xenotheurgist.

[Realms of Chaos]

I agree. That is one of the reasons that I brought up the possible revision for the empowerment mechanic (instead of requiring low life, gain an extra +2 Breach bonus before rolling your saving throw).
I may just make that modification after all. It would make xenotheurgists even more flexible (and dangerous to themselves) than they already are. They will be forced to ask if sacrificing two breaches in the future is worth empowering one right now.
I'll look into possibly making the codex vessania later on. If I have time today, I'll try making a full introduction chapter.

[Desmond Tiny]

I do not see very many ways for a xenotheurgist to increase there breach bonus to use cataclysms. Also I would love to see the introduction chapter. Also you should have links in the first post to the parts of the project because it is sort of annoying to have to scroll down and look for some of these things. Also this is better than most wotc classes. Also I think that that mechanic for empowerment would be more balanced. Also many of the empowerment effects are very powerful.

Also I use also too much.

[Realms of Chaos]

Breach bonus increases whenever you succeed on your Will save when using a breach (the one to prevent your murmur level from rising).

I'll get to making links eventually, believe me.

Empowerment is indeed powerful. Empowered breaches are meant to be stronger thant their corresponding spells. Once I change the mechanic for empowerment, using even one means (effectively) giving up two other breaches later on. That and a -2 penalty to all Will saves (from the breach bonus) for each one will stop you from using them too often.

I'll try to write the introduction but the first day of the new year is pretty busy over here in japan.

Speaking of which, happy new year, everybody.

[Desmond Tiny]

happy new year

Also I didn't read the part about succeeding on will saves to raise breach bonuses.

[Realms of Chaos]

Sorry if this post gives anyone high hopes.

Just wanted to let you guys know that my computor is 100% broken right now and that I`m waiting for my extra one to be sent from America (which could take awhile).

Sorry, again.

[Saurus33]

Idea: since the rules for adventuring in the Far Realms are also here, and the True Xenotheurge becomes an outsider as a capstone, it would make sense that they get certain bonuses/advantages when in the Far Realms. Perhaps being able to inhabit multiple layers and otherwise act like a native in some ways?

Even if it was nonstandard, it might work as an option for the various Harbingers Marks, or a prestige class.

[EdroGrimshell]

Would you be willing to run a campaign using this, i would love to play one. it would make a great playtest and it could be fun

[Realms of Chaos]

And again this thread is revived from the dead.

I have a new laptop now so I can start work on the remaining breaches as soon as tomorrow.

As for running a campaign... maybe. When I get all of the breaches typed up, running a 1-to-3 person campaign may be a good way to test this. Just be aware that I haven't been a DM for awhile so I may be a bit rusty.

Also, I realized a very, VERY, VERY big problem that may get in the way of making a PDF (or at least a good-quality one). Until recently, I never noticed people giving credit to the artists of pictures used or how said art is usually used with the artist's permission. Up until now, I was running under the impression that people just searched for whatever art seemed appropriate and slapped it onto their homebrew (I've been on this forum for years but I'm still an absolute idiot like that).
As I have mentioned, my previous laptop, the one that had all of the links to the pictures saved under favorites, broke. As things stand, I don't know if I'm quite able to find all of the artists, much less get their permission (some of the pictures were relatively old, if memory serves).
In fact, I think that I may be standing on the boundary of legality simply by putting them in this thread . I'm no copyright lawyer, however, and I'll wait until someone else gives me the scoop on what is and isn't okay.
In the worst case scenario, this thread will be locked, I'll post it up again (sans photos), and eventually finish it that way. It just won't look as nice.

Edit: If there is some sort of tacit "don't-ask, don't-tell" agreement about this issue, I feel like an idiot right now.

Edit Edit: As for xenotheurgy within the far-realms, I actually think that a xenotheurgist would be hindered in the far realms, rather than aided. Breaches only function because the xenotheurgist is letting chaotic energies flood into reality. Out in the far realms, the xenotheurgist can still open those holes but the flow of energy wouldn't be nearly as strong.

As a better metaphor, think of a kid with a water pistol (a xenotheurgist). That kid can use water (far realms chaos) to hit things (use breaches). That does not mean, however, that the kid has any special command over the ocean (the source from which water, representing far realms chaos, comes from).

[Realms of Chaos]

Sorry for the double post but I wanted to share the good news.
Namely, more breaches.

I finally put up distant presence, which has some of my more... cinematic breaches to date. I personally believe that it is possible to make an entire encounter out of a xenotheurgist using driving force over and over again until s/he goes crazy.

Also, I'm going to start altering the entire thread, putting in the text of the codex vesania. If you find where I put it (and it shouldn't be hard), don't tell the others. It's a secret.

[urkthegurk]

I'm an excellent artist, so if you just need one or two images, I'm up for the task. Obviously i can't quickly deliver every image you need, but if there were only one or two or five artist you couldn't get a hold of, I could step in. It would be a shame to see an awesome creation like this go up without images, so its the least I can do.

If you're interested, I can send you a few sample sketches, so you can see if you like my work. PM me.

[Realms of Chaos]

Ugh, it killed me inside to do it but I just removed the pictures from the entire thread. A couple days ago I contacted every artist that I could asking for permission and one reply that I got half the time was something along the lines of "it's not fair to the person who paid me to draw it". I got maybe 1 or 2 okays and everyone else just didn't reply (at least so far).

I completely forgot that some people use deviantart as a source of income as an artist. I think that I'll take up UrktheGurk's offer for the two most vital pieces of art in this thing (check your PMs) but if anyone out there has work that they have done that would fit this thread (or can get permission from an artist friend), feel free to submit it. Otherwise, It doesn't look likely.

[Saurus33]

Have you/do you think it would be a good idea to put out a call for artists in the Arts+Crafts board?

[Realms of Chaos]

......

Ya know, I actually forgot that these boards had such as forum.

I'll give that a try.

[Saurus33]

A question that popped into my head when considering a character; what happens when something with Xenotheurgy gains divine rank?

[EdroGrimshell]

Hey Realms of Chaos, I someone who may be willing to help with images, she's a friend of mine with a talent for drawing, so if you would like me to see if she would be able to do this just PM me Widget.

[Primal Fury]

May I offer a suggestion? Everything seems cool, but you might want to organize things differently. One thing I always hated about the early books wast that every spell was in alphabetical order. ToB fixed this by bunching all of the maneuvers that were under the same discipline together. So... what you did with Distant Presence would be great for the rest of the Breaches.

[DragoonWraith]

Thought I'd mention, I've written a PrC that dual progresses True Xenotheurge and Lord_Gareth's Harrowed. You can find that here. Thoughts on it by anyone who's used Xenotheurgy would be appreciated!

Also, one of my Ancient Ones vestiges gives some Xenotheurgic power, for those interested.

[Dante & Vergil]

Are you finished with this? I don't know if it is or isn't.

[drakir_nosslin]

Are you finished with this? I don't know if it is or isn't.

We're still waiting for some of the breaches, but it's a massive project, so it takes time. Though I hope that this widgit of work gets finished before I die

[druid91]

I am encountering surprising arguments against this system, I personally love it but no one seems to want me to use it.

[DragoonWraith]

The only argument I've seen is "holy hell, that's a lot of text. Sorry, DMing is enough work as it is without having to read all of that."

[druid91]

"I'm voting no, and would like to point out that not only are many abilities badly worded (and thus open to all sorts of abuse) but that many are very powerful. It is, over all, unbalanced. Many spells or 'murmurs' are far too powerful for their level, and some allow a wish with no repercussions. And I'm not just talking about the system...
The class as well is far too powerful for a full caster of any kind. d6 HD, average BaB? No thank you.
This is a recipe for disaster."

"Here's a quick comparison:

Fighter --
Has d10 and Strong BAB progression.
Gets proficiency with all armors and martial weapons.
Gets a bonus 'fighter' feat at 1st and every even level (11 feats total at Level 20).
(And that's all.)

Xenotheurge --
Has d6 and average BAB progression.
Starts with proficiency with light armor and all simple weapons. Can get proficiency with medium armor/shields and all martial weapons at 3rd level (as a choice, and there are many other options).
Gets 4 class-specific bonus feats during progression to Level 18.
Gets a million other things. (See the wall of text that describes the Xenotheurge's powers and abilities.)

The reaction I'm attempting to evoke here is 'Well, when you put it that way, of course it's overpowered.'"

are the two best argued ones.

[Realms of Chaos]

As far as the base statistics of this class, it's basically the Favored Soul except that two good saves were traded for a couple skill points and the potential for martial weapon proficiency later on (a pretty bad exchange in my book).

As far as abilities go, you get a few skill bonuses (enough to make you a secondary skill monkey), a few bonus feats to give you some versatility, and a few customized powers that give you something to do without risking the suicide button.

As I have said in the description of xenotheurgy, it is a complete double-edged sword. This guy is strong in the early campaign but the later you go, the more dangerous things become for you. Most of the 6th level breaches are exceedingly powerful but this is only because you need a 6th-level murmur to use them.
In other words, a single failed Will save makes you comatose for an entire week while emitting several incursions that tear up the area, hinder your party as well as foes, and attract unwanted attention.

I do admit that I was in the wrong state of mind when I made the 1/week miracle/wish. I was thinking how it could do a modicum of good as an alternative to using another incursion 1/week.
I didn't even consider that xenotheurgists in their down time might create magic items, boost stats, and use the power for those types of effects.

Should I put an XP cost in or simply state that effects created only last for up to 1 week?

[druid91]

As far as the base statistics of this class, it's basically the Favored Soul except that two good saves were traded for a couple skill points and the potential for martial weapon proficiency later on (a pretty bad exchange in my book).

As far as abilities go, you get a few skill bonuses (enough to make you a secondary skill monkey), a few bonus feats to give you some versatility, and a few customized powers that give you something to do without risking the suicide button.

As I have said in the description of xenotheurgy, it is a complete double-edged sword. This guy is strong in the early campaign but the later you go, the more dangerous things become for you. Most of the 6th level breaches are exceedingly powerful but this is only because you need a 6th-level murmur to use them.
In other words, a single failed Will save makes you comatose for an entire week while emitting several incursions that tear up the area, hinder your party as well as foes, and attract unwanted attention.

I do admit that I was in the wrong state of mind when I made the 1/week miracle/wish. I was thinking how it could do a modicum of good as an alternative to using another incursion 1/week.
I didn't even consider that xenotheurgists in their down time might create magic items, boost stats, and use the power for those types of effects.

Should I put an XP cost in or simply state that effects created only last for up to 1 week?

thanks, this might help save the voting!

[Realms of Chaos]

...wait a moment.

What voting?