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Thread: Permanency

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Permanency

    Is there a list of all the spells that can be made permanent?

    Can the various Armour and Weapon Enhancement Infusions be made permanent?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Permanency

    You can craft weapons and armor, but the infusions allow short term duplication of weapon special qualities. The only way to make them permanent is to craft the weapons.

    Since you speak of infusions, I assume you are an artificer... crafting is what you do.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Could you cast permenancy and make fox's cunning permanent? I know it's not on the list but that would be pretty awesome. Houserule maybe?

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    Default Re: Permanency

    That's basically a Headband of Intellect, +cost for slotless, -cost for being dispellable.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Here are the spells you can make permanent. But you could always houserule something else in, if you could figure out a fair xp cost. Remember that these spells can still be dispelled, and that wastes the xp you put into them:

    You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself.
    Spell Minimum Caster Level XP Cost
    Arcane sight 11th 1,500 XP
    Comprehend languages 9th 500 XP
    Darkvision 10th 1,000 XP
    Detect magic 9th 500 XP
    Read magic 9th 500 XP
    See invisibility 10th 1,000 XP
    Tongues 11th 1,500 XP

    You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.

    In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate).
    Spell Minimum Caster Level XP Cost

    1. Only bonds two creatures per casting of permanency.

    Enlarge person 9th 500 XP
    Magic fang 9th 500 XP
    Magic fang, greater 11th 1,500 XP
    Reduce person 9th 500 XP
    Resistance 9th 500 XP
    Telepathic bond1 13th 2,500 XP

    Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent.
    Spell Minimum Caster Level XP Cost
    Alarm 9th 500 XP
    Animate objects 14th 3,000 XP
    Dancing lights 9th 500 XP
    Ghost sound 9th 500 XP
    Gust of wind 11th 1,500 XP
    Invisibility 10th 1,000 XP
    Mage’s private sanctum 13th 2,500 XP
    Magic mouth 10th 1,000 XP
    Phase door 15th 3,500 XP
    Prismatic sphere 17th 4,500 XP
    Prismatic wall 16th 4,000 XP
    Shrink item 11th 1,500 XP
    Solid fog 12th 2,000 XP
    Stinking cloud 11th 1,500 XP
    Symbol of death 16th 4,000 XP
    Symbol of fear 14th 3,000 XP
    Symbol of insanity 16th 4,000 XP
    Symbol of pain 13th 2,500 XP
    Symbol of persuasion 14th 3,000 XP
    Symbol of sleep 16th 4,000 XP
    Symbol of stunning 15th 3,500 XP
    Symbol of weakness 15th 3,500 XP
    Teleportation circle 17th 4,500 XP
    Wall of fire 12th 2,000 XP
    Wall of force 13th 2,500 XP
    Web 10th 1,000 XP

    Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander View Post
    Here are the spells you can make permanent. But you could always houserule something else in, if you could figure out a fair xp cost. Remember that these spells can still be dispelled, and that wastes the xp you put into them:
    There's actually a very simple pattern to the XP cost and the caster level requirement:

    XP = 500 xp * spell level (minimum 500 xp)
    Caster Level = Spell Level + 8 (minimum caster level 9)

    However, some spells are MUCH more valuable when Permanent than others. Lesser Vigor, for instance.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    However, some spells are MUCH more valuable when Permanent than others. Lesser Vigor, for instance.
    Not worth a clipped copper piece after 2 days? Dispel Magic is a relatively common tactic at higher levels if only because buffs are so important to characters. Permanancy isn't even Divine, so you can't get the various divine CL boosts to make it immune. One lucky roll and you're looking at a couple thousand XP down the drain. With the current rules, I don't see why the spell ever gets used.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Not worth a clipped copper piece after 2 days? Dispel Magic is a relatively common tactic at higher levels if only because buffs are so important to characters. Permanancy isn't even Divine, so you can't get the various divine CL boosts to make it immune. One lucky roll and you're looking at a couple thousand XP down the drain. With the current rules, I don't see why the spell ever gets used.
    UMD on Beads of Karma. Create Magic Tattoo. Orange Ioun Stone. There are ways to raise CL for wizard spells, though admittedly you need to be pretty high level to do it. But a Permanancied Prismatic Sphere would just be cool and awesome.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Not worth a clipped copper piece after 2 days? Dispel Magic is a relatively common tactic at higher levels if only because buffs are so important to characters. Permanancy isn't even Divine, so you can't get the various divine CL boosts to make it immune. One lucky roll and you're looking at a couple thousand XP down the drain. With the current rules, I don't see why the spell ever gets used.
    That's why you pick up a Ring of Counterspells, and load it with Greater Dispel Magic (for the targeted version), cast all of your actual buffs one caster level lower than your maximum, and load yourself up with Arcane Marks at your full caster level (for the area version of Dispel Magic), and a Ring of Spell Battle (for that pesky Disjunction spell)
    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    UMD on Beads of Karma. Create Magic Tattoo. Orange Ioun Stone. There are ways to raise CL for wizard spells, though admittedly you need to be pretty high level to do it. But a Permanancied Prismatic Sphere would just be cool and awesome.
    Prismatic Sphere is on the standard Permanency list.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2009-08-23 at 12:58 AM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Paganboy28 View Post
    Is there a list of all the spells that can be made permanent?
    Yes. Only the DM will have it and you should ask him or her. If you are the DM, then you may choose whichever spells you want to allow permanency to work on or not within the game world.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    True Strike?


    :D






    :D

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    Default Re: Permanency

    I'm pretty sure the list on the Permanency spell itself (which is what was posted above) is not complete (some spells published later say 'this spell may be made permanent by yadda yadda').

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Rixx View Post
    True Strike?


    :D
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    I'm pretty sure the list on the Permanency spell itself (which is what was posted above) is not complete (some spells published later say 'this spell may be made permanent by yadda yadda').
    This is correct as I am looking at the silvered claws spell and it says that it can be made permanent.

    Edit: With a permanency spell even.
    Last edited by olentu; 2009-08-23 at 01:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post
    This is correct as I am looking at the silvered claws spell and it says that it can be made permanent.

    Edit: With a permanency spell even.
    Hence why I ask... I wondered if there was an updated list somewhere of all the spells possible for Permenancy without having to trawl through all the books.

    Also, I assumed that because it is now Permanent that a Dispel or such would just stop it from working that turn or such, they sort of become Spell-like abilities (buffs) that are active 24/7.

    If a simple Dispel could wipe the slate clean as it were, then this spell is pointless and way to expensive.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    That's why you pick up a Ring of Counterspells, and load it with Greater Dispel Magic (for the targeted version), cast all of your actual buffs one caster level lower than your maximum, and load yourself up with Arcane Marks at your full caster level (for the area version of Dispel Magic), and a Ring of Spell Battle (for that pesky Disjunction spell)
    Jack, when I read that, I thought you had found a BIG flaw in the dispel rules.
    Then I checked the Arcane Mark description :

    See invisibility, true seeing, a gem of seeing, or a robe of eyes likewise allows the user to see an invisible arcane mark. A read magic spell reveals the words, if any. The mark cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed by the caster or by an erase spell.

    If an arcane mark is placed on a living being, normal wear gradually causes the effect to fade in about a month.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Johel View Post
    Jack, when I read that, I thought you had found a BIG flaw in the dispel rules.
    Then I checked the Arcane Mark description :
    Ah, drat. Guess we'll just need to use a bunch of Extended Endure Elements spells, then. Or maybe just use Dominate Person on yourself a bunch of times and never give yourself any orders. We go from 30 days to 1 day/level on the defense.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    It's cheesy and several "Dominate Person" can't stack...but it works.
    "Charm monster" and "Lesser Geas" would also work fine, as each effect is different. So, that's 3 flares.

    I wonder if "Gentle Repose" would actually work on a living person. If yes, let's cast it too !!
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Johel View Post
    It's cheesy and several "Dominate Person" can't stack...but it works.
    "Charm monster" and "Lesser Geas" would also work fine, as each effect is different. So, that's 3 flares.

    I wonder if "Gentle Repose" would actually work on a living person. If yes, let's cast it too !!
    Ah, but if you check the rules on stacking:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD, Magic Overview, Casting Spells, Stacking Effects
    One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant

    Sometimes, one spell can render a later spell irrelevant. Both spells are still active, but one has rendered the other useless in some fashion.
    (Emphasis added)

    So if you have ten Lesser Geas spells on yourself, or ten Dominate Person spells on yourself, or whatever, sure, only one of them applies... but they're all there to potentially soak up Dispelling. For what we're using them for, it's irrelevant that they don't stack.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2009-08-23 at 11:47 AM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Ah, but if you check the rules on stacking:

    (Emphasis added)

    So if you have ten Lesser Geas spells on yourself, or ten Dominate Person spells on yourself, or whatever, sure, only one of them applies... but they're all there to potentially soak up Dispelling. For what we're using them for, it's irrelevant that they don't stack.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quick optimization tips: The permanent spells can be dispelled, so given the cost they're not much use if you expect a lot of dispelling.

    But the ability to make short duration spells permanent is quite powerful; almost like having a quickened version since it doesn't eat a combat round. Enlarge person on a friendly grappler jumps out as pretty sweet.

    For long duration spells there's not much point when you can just recast it everyday, unless you tend to be away for a while. So for example alarm while miles away to deal with low level looters could work.

    Then there are some that give you unlimited use of certain spells, so you can really abuse it and use it on everything you see no matter how trivial. Like detect magic. Heck, you could even find new uses for it like scouting, since it's so abundant now.

    And I like the overlapping trick to stop dispel. Only thing is a targetted spell instead of an area dispel would remove about half the buffs each time. For just 1 dispel the cost of all those lost spells has got to hurt.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-08-23 at 01:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    And I like the overlapping trick to stop dispel. Only thing is a targetted spell instead of an area dispel would remove about half the buffs each time. For just 1 dispel the cost of all those lost spells has got to hurt.
    That's what the ring is for. That's only one counterspell but still, how many Greater Dispel will a wizard have at his disposal.

    But yes, that's going to hurt if a second one is ready.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Johel View Post
    That's what the ring is for. That's only one counterspell but still, how many Greater Dispel will a wizard have at his disposal.

    But yes, that's going to hurt if a second one is ready.
    Oh, that's why you prepare Spell Turning, as well. See, Spell Turning doesn't have any clauses about not working like normal on targetted Dispels - so when the Ring of Counterspells triggers, you cast Spell Turning, and the next time the opponent tries to Dispel you, he dispells himself, instead.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    I bet if wars where handled "realistically" in fantasy worlds, wands of "Dispel Magic" are one of the most common magical item, right before the wands of "Fireball" and "Summon Monster", with every novice being handed one.

    Still, the "Jack's Flare" tactic is worth writting down.
    Gotcha create a one-level spell for this.

    Mystical Flare
    Level: Sor/Wiz 1
    Components: V, S, M/DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 day/level

    This spell does nothing but imbue the target with stagnating magical energies. Those are too dilluted to do anything specific but yet, a powerful charm hold them together.
    If detect magic or similar spells are used, the spell is easy to detect and its true nature is easily revealed.
    If the spellcaster is the target of a dispel, the Mystical Flare shall be targeted first, regardless of other active spells.
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    Also, if you get the gold and want to use Permanency a lot.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Hmm. What is needed is a permanent spell that can soak up dispels.

    Explosive Runes works, but, uh, there's a little problem with failed dispels setting it off. No good.

    Continual Flame has a tiny material component. It's low enough to ignore at higher levels, but still, you might want to avoid it.

    Heck, even Bestow Curse can't be dispelled...

    You probably can't cast Illusory Wall on yourself. More's the pity. I want to look like a giant mobile wall.

    Magic Mouth costs only 10 gp per casting, so that's worth considering. Also, you could use it to make your stuff shout for help if it ever gets stolen, so it actually has a practical use. You could also use it to create alarms for when you sleep, come to think of it.

    Aha! Here we go. Secret Page. No cost, lasts forever. Cast it on every page of a book, then carry the book around with you, and it'll soak up dispels.

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    Default Re: Permanency

    Unless you count the book as a separate dispel target. Not to mention targeted dispels.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-08-23 at 03:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Aha! Here we go. Secret Page. No cost, lasts forever. Cast it on every page of a book, then carry the book around with you, and it'll soak up dispels.
    About Area Dispel :
    All objects and creatures in the area are affected.
    The dispel stops at the first dispelled spell on each object/creature.

    This means your Secret Page will soak the dispel for the book but not for yourself. You need a spell that last many days (or is permanent) and target you, not an object.

    About Targetted Dispel :
    One object or creature is affected.
    The dispel stops only once it had tested for all spell effects on target.

    EDIT : Ninja !!
    Last edited by Johel; 2009-08-23 at 03:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Hmm... I wonder if you could write a page of text on your own body, then make it secret...

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    Default Re: Permanency

    The entire list o' spells you can cast Permenancy on is in the PHB, of course.

    Although I think you should ask your DM to override some of the listings on the basis of Rule of Cool. For example, Symbol of Death as a tattoo.
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    Default Re: Permanency

    Quote Originally Posted by Akushin Oka View Post
    The entire list o' spells you can cast Permenancy on is in the PHB, of course.

    Although I think you should ask your DM to override some of the listings on the basis of Rule of Cool. For example, Symbol of Death as a tattoo.
    *Open the jacket*
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    And then people die
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