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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    So I had a bit of shower inspiration (that I promptly forgot upon drying off) in regards to the large gap between casters and non-casters in 3.5 D&D, and started asking more questions than I'd answered.

    I don't remember the specifics of what I'd come up with, but I do know it involved changing some of the wizard's spells to SLAs or something similar (in a similar vein to the changes made in 4E, what with the encounter and at-will powers), and increasing the casting time of what might be called a wizard's "utility" spells to keep them out of combat. At the moment, my question is not about the balance of such a fix (as I imagine my eye for balance is not very well trained); rather, I'm interested in the implications of basically turning the wizard into a warlock with utility spells. Are there any far-reaching effects that I'm simply not seeing?
    My only request: People play D&D (or any RPG) differently. No one is capable of playing any RPG "wrong". While it's possible that there might be an RPG better suited for what the players obviously want, using the terms "right" or "wrong" in describing how someone plays an RPG should never happen, unless saying "you're all right; none of you are wrong". Please respect others' rights to play as they wish.

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    Temet Nosce's Avatar

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    I'm unsure but I've got something vaguely similar involving cast times which change as you level percolating in my head. I'll probably post it in a few days, but for now I'm still dealing with a few issues with spells that shouldn't have long cast times which are high level (I.E. Timestop, which would be kinda useless with a high cast time).

    Although the reasoning behind my idea is more to make high level magic feel appropriately epic than to "balance" it... which honestly, doesn't matter to me at all. I have no interest in perfectly balancing magic.

    Also, to really review your idea I'd need more information. Which spells are you suggesting changing? (Would for example, SoDs become at wills? and which will count as utility?)

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    See, that's the problem lol. The idea hit me in the shower and by the time I'd gotten dressed and to work, I'd forgotten all the crunchy bits.

    I'm not even really sure how to implement these ideas. Maybe SoDs need to go altogether?
    My only request: People play D&D (or any RPG) differently. No one is capable of playing any RPG "wrong". While it's possible that there might be an RPG better suited for what the players obviously want, using the terms "right" or "wrong" in describing how someone plays an RPG should never happen, unless saying "you're all right; none of you are wrong". Please respect others' rights to play as they wish.

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    Temet Nosce's Avatar

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    Quote Originally Posted by RoninFrosty View Post
    See, that's the problem lol. The idea hit me in the shower and by the time I'd gotten dressed and to work, I'd forgotten all the crunchy bits.

    I'm not even really sure how to implement these ideas. Maybe SoDs need to go altogether?
    Well, what precisely are you aiming to accomplish with this idea? That might give you a better appreciation of what you need to do to get there. Set a goal, and a general means of getting to the goal then proceed from there I guess.

    Personally I like SoDs, but they're an issue in combat due to their hit or miss philosophy. Either they obviate the encounter, or are pretty much useless.

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    The problem with mages, as many here have experienced it (I haven't but I've never played above level 10 at the table, either) isn't that they buff themselves in combat too easily: some utility spells would be just as useful if they took hours to cast: seriously: shapechange is broken no matter how long it takes.
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    My ultimate goal, basically, is to maintain combat efficiency for the wizards, insofar as damage dealing potential is concerned (I'm thinking something Eldritch Blast-ish, usable at will but not ricockulously overpowered), but kind of bring them closer in line to the non casters of the party. Reduce their ability to straight up alter reality, so to speak.
    My only request: People play D&D (or any RPG) differently. No one is capable of playing any RPG "wrong". While it's possible that there might be an RPG better suited for what the players obviously want, using the terms "right" or "wrong" in describing how someone plays an RPG should never happen, unless saying "you're all right; none of you are wrong". Please respect others' rights to play as they wish.

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    Temet Nosce's Avatar

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    Quote Originally Posted by RoninFrosty View Post
    My ultimate goal, basically, is to maintain combat efficiency for the wizards, insofar as damage dealing potential is concerned (I'm thinking something Eldritch Blast-ish, usable at will but not ricockulously overpowered), but kind of bring them closer in line to the non casters of the party. Reduce their ability to straight up alter reality, so to speak.
    Hrm, well if you just want this for immediate adaption in combat all you'd really need to do would be slap a lengthy casting time on everything except a certain set of DD spells. Casters would still screw reality, but it'd have a lower effect in combat (Eldan is right about Shapechange and the like though...)

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    Yeah...I'm thinking the magic system may be so deeply entrenched in the system as a whole that it might be impossible to just "tweak" the existing system into something that would work. You might be looking at a complete rebuild, which is waaaaay outside of my scope at the moment.
    My only request: People play D&D (or any RPG) differently. No one is capable of playing any RPG "wrong". While it's possible that there might be an RPG better suited for what the players obviously want, using the terms "right" or "wrong" in describing how someone plays an RPG should never happen, unless saying "you're all right; none of you are wrong". Please respect others' rights to play as they wish.

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    Temet Nosce's Avatar

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    Default Re: Implications of a Magic System Overhaul (3.5E)

    Quote Originally Posted by RoninFrosty View Post
    Yeah...I'm thinking the magic system may be so deeply entrenched in the system as a whole that it might be impossible to just "tweak" the existing system into something that would work. You might be looking at a complete rebuild, which is waaaaay outside of my scope at the moment.
    If you literally want to balance it? You aren't looking at a complete rebuild of magic, but at a complete rebuild of the entire edition. If you have a more specific goal though it can be done, (I.E. like I said I'm working on something to make high level magic feel more impressive through relative scarcity).

    Still, you could accomplish what you mentioned with some work. It wouldn't be perfect, but it is possible to try to force casters to stick mostly to DD in combat and line it up with non casters.

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