The Railroad Is Your Friend

[shadow_archmagi]

LITERALLY!

This is an interesting trick I've been using lately and I thought I'd share it with the playground/see if you all already know about it and use it/see if it's completely retarded.

Find a player in the group and arrange for them to be your spy. Then, when it is absolutely vital that the group go to the blue forests so that they won't be around to protect the mayor... just nudge John and suddenly he pipes up and says "Gee comrades, we sure should go to the blue forest! I bet it will be swell!"

Now, obviously, this requires you to have a player who is both loyal and charismatic enough to persaude the group to do things his way from time to time (Note: It works best if he has an actual argument, like "The blue forest is obviously magical, and magical things can be looted! Don't we all love loot?")

If pulled off successfully, it goes from

"Gee, the DM sure is just telling his own story irregardless of our actions"

to

"Gosh, the DM sure is doing a good job of weaving the story to correspond to the things we chose to do of our own free will, exercising the creativity and freedom we came to enjoy!"

Sounds cool though, right? Right?!



RIGHT!?

[sadi]

Been there, done that. It doesn't work very well when the person is someone that the rest of the group doesn't trust at all, like an inherent +20 to sense motive checks on him.

[elonin]

It's a better idea to lead them to the blue forrest through a roleplaying hook. For example have one of the charactors need to go there to find out about a rival, love interest, etc from one charactor's backstory. Otherwise hold off on the atttack until the pc's do leave for something else on their own accord.

[sadi]

On a side note, I don't believe in railroads. I have a plot, and a time line. The time line starts when the players find the first plot point. They get clues and hints to follow the plot. If they don't follow it, things happen normally and the time line just reflects that the party failed to prevent x from happening.

[elonin]

My comment was trying to get away from railroads. If the event is the barron kidnaps the prince; if the party is a known danger to his plan he'd hold off for an oppertune time. That's just good planning and being relatively intelligent. Then again he might push things along by using a poison on someone that requires a certain herb that he knows isn't in stock in the local area and is rare enough that the pc's will not have. Then when the pc's leave he can get on to what he's really interested in. That's a deeper plot not railroading.

[Raum]

Sounds cool though, right? Right?!

If the players prefer tracks (many do) this isn't the worst method you could choose. Just have to be careful to ensure it doesn't appear to be a case of GM favoritism to the other players.

[Totally Guy]

Why not tell each of your friends a different location and then watch them all find any and all reasons for going to each place?

Then after the funny part is over you tell them what you did. You say it was an excercise for discovering the best reasons for wanting to go to each location. Then you allow player to go where they collectively choose based on the debate.

[Crow]

The DM has taken a great deal of his personal time to try and create a fun world and an exciting adventure for his players to enjoy. The least the players can do is to grab hold of the plot hooks that the DM sends their way every once in a while.

This is assuming the DM is not running a DMPC power-fantasy game or the such.

[shadow_archmagi]

running a DMPC power-fantasy game or the such.

Am I the only DM who constantly worries about doing this by accident, and realizing that all my most clever ideas have been utter, vain, crap?

[Seffbasilisk]

I tried that the game right after my birthday.

One of my players got me a bottle of vodka.

Plot, and a good chunk of the planet was blasted into space.

[AstralFire]

Am I the only DM who constantly worries about doing this by accident, and realizing that all my most clever ideas have been utter, vain, crap?

This is why, whenever I take over a game as GM that I was a PC in, I refuse to let my PC remain a notable and present focus, even when the players tell me it's fine.

[Katana_Geldar]

Sometimes you need to lower several plot hooks before there's a bite.

Why should the players go into the Blue Forest anyway? Enter Mrs NPC who asks the brave adventurers to rescue little Timmy who was dragged into their by marauders.

And does it have to be the Blue Forest? Are the Crimson Mountains, Purple Swamp and Yellow Valley also viable options?

[Deepblue706]

Implanting people just to force people along a rigid path will rarely be productive. One person saying "C'mon, but I wanna go there" doesn't provide a logical argument to take a course of action; and logical players who have decided upon a course of action will not be persuaded to change on that alone. At best, you'll make people feel awkward for differing on opinion.

If you want people to do something, you have to appeal to the wants and needs of the characters, not just your own plan. You can't expect everyone to want to help save The Town because It's The Right Thing To Do, or explore That Forest because It's Soooo Interesting. Because Your Travelling Companion Asked You is no better, if not worse, due to the awkwardness involved upon denial.

Using one player to nudge the others onto the right path when they're completely lost works, but otherwise I'd advise against it. And even then, a DM could easily accomplish as much with just a NPC.

But really, railroading sucks. If you have to enforce players to take highly specific actions for your game to continue, then your game is simply unfit for play.

[Zuki]

I do stuff like this, but only if I've already got a ready-made compatriot. When I GM'd and my brother was a player, for example.

I've also been the GM's confidante/patsy a few times, as well. It never came to the point where I had to help pull a train back on the rails, though. I'll also cheerfully recomend myself for the position. If I think the GM is trying to put us on some rails, and I think the rails sound interesting, I'll come up with reasons why my PC is interested in that particular course of action and help corral the group together.

If I'm just starting out an adventure, I use a slightly different tactic to get the PCs on the same track and motivated.

"You are all passengers on a zeppellin, the H.M.S.A. Flying Pussyfoot, bound to India and currently flying over the Himalayan mountains as we speak. Why is your character aboard this ship?"

I have strong narrativist leanings when I play and GM, and I'm a big believer in making my players do some of the work for me. Asking the players to provide their PC's motivations why they'd want to do something, or even letting them fill in a little minor setting to background detail is a fun trick that keeps them engaged. It can also generate new sideplots and story hooks.

The real value in giving a player a little background knowledge as to why they'd want to pursue a given plot and rewarding them for its pursuit is that it gives them additional investment in the story and makes them feel special, for knowing something the other players don't. Why not share the fun and 'recruit' different players for different reasons or at different times?

Also, in your specific reason...the only reason the players 'must' go to the Blue Forest, is that so they won't be around when the town's Friendly Mayor gets offed. In a situation like that, as I think someone else pointed out, a visit to the Crimson Swamp, the Mountains of Death, or crashing a wedding in the next town over would all work equally well to get the players distracted. You can end the session early, letting them know they went in a direction you didn't anticipate and you'll need some time to plan out what's next, or you can improvise.

[Zadus]

I second the timeline + clues. That's my favourite way to run things. Hell this way I actually prefer it when my players go off and do weird things.

"You arrive at city X, but find it to have fallen 100 feet into the ground and now its pretty much just a crator"
"You mean that kobold mining project that we didn't look in to"
"Yes. It ended very badly for this capital city. To be fair it took them months and months to set up. Anyway with no central government, this entire nation is now in shambles. Have fun"

Emprace the Entropy.

[Katana_Geldar]

Too much railroading kills the spontaneity that makes great moments in roleplaying. I love it when the players think of new solutions to problems even though I have thought of several possibilities already.

You're not telling a story by yourself, the players are your main characters and have their own motivations. Even in fiction story and characters can conflict with each other. Ask any writer.

[Thrawn183]

Generally this is only necessary if you're trying to get the players to have their PC's do something they wouldn't do.

The only experience I've had with this was a disaster.

[Katana_Geldar]

Such as if they intend to stay in one spot and refuse to do anything at all aside from getting drunk.

[BRC]

I'm BRC, and I do not approve this method.

First of all, Railroading isn't a problem because you don't get away with it, it's a problem because it turns the players into a simple audience who happen to roll the dice occasionally. I'm all for DM's being sneaky, but sneakiness should be a sign the DM is doing more work, not being lazy.

Second of all, this might work in Paranoia, where one character is secretly a GREEN-level undercover agent observing the PC's and trying to keep them on the path the higher-ups want them to go on so they "Discover" the right evidence. But it would have to be played very well.

[warrl]

And does it have to be the Blue Forest? Are the Crimson Mountains, Purple Swamp and Yellow Valley also viable options?

No, it's Purple Mountains and Crimson Swamp.

In fact, the lord that you're planning to kidnap sends the PCs on a diplomatic mission to the king of a neighboring dwarven realm. They carry a gift and a proposed trade pact for Purple Mountains Majesty.

[ondonaflash]

On a side note, I don't believe in railroads. I have a plot, and a time line. The time line starts when the players find the first plot point. They get clues and hints to follow the plot. If they don't follow it, things happen normally and the time line just reflects that the party failed to prevent x from happening.

I COULD KISS YOU, YOU GREAT BEAUTIFUL...

HALFLING!

[Kaiyanwang]

First of all, Railroading isn't a problem because you don't get away with it, it's a problem because it turns the players into a simple audience who happen to roll the dice occasionally. I'm all for DM's being sneaky, but sneakiness should be a sign the DM is doing more work, not being lazy.

This. Definitively this.

[Rainbownaga]

Why not tell each of your friends a different location and then watch them all find any and all reasons for going to each place?

I would suggest this would be fun for a Paranoia game, but that's a little redundant.


On topic, it sounds like a good idea, but the problem is that the one person that you want to convince that you're not railroading is going to be the most headstrong one. I see this leading to either unnecessary arguments, or even more loss of face when your 'mole' comes clean in front of the other players.

I prefer to use the secret message things for secret missions, e.g. the character has a private, in-character reason to lure the rest of the party into the mysterious forest without letting on their real intentions.

[Jerthanis]

I second the timeline + clues. That's my favourite way to run things. Hell this way I actually prefer it when my players go off and do weird things.

"You arrive at city X, but find it to have fallen 100 feet into the ground and now its pretty much just a crator"
"You mean that kobold mining project that we didn't look in to"
"Yes. It ended very badly for this capital city. To be fair it took them months and months to set up. Anyway with no central government, this entire nation is now in shambles. Have fun"

Emprace the Entropy.

I'd be slightly miffed if I went out on a quest to save the governor's son from bandits only to find the whole town died because I did the DM's quests in the wrong order, or took one too many rests to regain spells. If the level of danger was accurately portrayed, I would have prioritized the more dangerous threat, so it's not really my mistake, but a misrepresentation by the DM as to what was actually going on. Smacks of railroading just as hard to me, really.

[Pika...]

Been there, done that. It doesn't work very well when the person is someone that the rest of the group doesn't trust at all, like an inherent +20 to sense motive checks on him.

Do your best to find a lawyer who plays D&D. Problem solved.


edit:
That, or a female gamer...

[Foryn Gilnith]

If they know the person is a lawyer, they'll just randomly guess that half of whatever he says is deceptive...

[bosssmiley]

Why not tell each of your friends a different location and then watch them all find any and all reasons for going to each place?

Then after the funny part is over you tell them what you did. You say it was an excercise for discovering the best reasons for wanting to go to each location. Then you allow player to go where they collectively choose based on the debate.

*applauds*

Letting the players do your thinking for you. Now that is some smart DMing Glug.

I don't hold with railroading. People get pushed around enough in their normal lives; let them do whatever they choose to in their game (but make sure they take the consequences of those choices). Letting the players wander the map getting themselves into trouble saves me a lot of work writing plot and dialogue which will just get blah blah blah edited out.