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    Default [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I'm making my first Psion, and while I grasp the basics of Psionics, I haven't yet studied all of the stuff out there so I don't know good feats and powers yet. I'd appreciate any help you guys can give me, even if it's just a link to a guide somewhere.

    Stats were rolled and are as follows:
    18, 13, 13, 13, 12, 12

    I was thinking 12, 13, 13, 18, 13, 12 as my distribution. I want to go with either Human or Elan as my race, and I do know about the Enhanced Elan X feats to make their racial abilities even more uber, but I'm reluctant to give up that extra feat from Human. We're starting at level 3 with standard gold for that level, so item suggestions are welcome too.

    So far, the feats I'm interested in are Psionic Body (to make up for the d4 HD), Enhanced Elan Resilience (if I go with Elan), Narrow Mind, Overchannel, Speed of Thought, Extend Power. Oh and I like the Psychometabolism discipline the best and am going with that so please keep that in mind when making recommendations.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Have a guide. I'd give you the one on Gleemax, but...yeah. Do you have a concept in mind, or do you want to know the best options overall ?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Don't worry about Psionic Body; one of the basic and most common powers is Vigor, which gives you 5 temp hp per pp. That adds up pretty fast, and is pretty affordable at most levels if you pace it well. You're better off taking feats that give you new options.

    Overchannel without Talented seems a waste.

    Expanded Knowledge is probably the best psionic feat in the game; learn it, use it, love it. Lower levels arcane spells are usually a drag, but lower level psionic powers are often just higher ones waiting to be augmented.



    What focus are you thinking of? The rule of thumb is to scan the lists and choose which discipline has the most powers you'd like, then cherry pick from the others via Expanded Knowledge.

    Kineticists make much better blasters than almost any (non-cheesy) Wizard build. Blasting's suboptimal for Wizards but entirely practical for Psions who go this route. The defining power (Energy Missile) is easy to grab via Expanded Knowledge, but I also like Control Object, Fiery Discorporation, and if your DM goes full-on transparency then Anti-Psionic (antimagic) Field is awesome too.

    Shapers are powerful, but the defining power (Astral Construct) is trivial to grab via Expanded Knowledge.

    Egoist are powerful, and the defining power (Metamorphosis) might be worth taking the focus for since it's a fairly high level.

    Telepaths get a lot of goodies, especially Mindlink (trivial to grab) and Schism (higher level), so take this or not depending on how much you like Enchantment Wizards.

    Seer and Nomad never really impressed me, but are also cherrypickable.
    Last edited by sonofzeal; 2009-09-02 at 05:12 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I second the skipping of Psionic Body. Learn to use Vigor, learn to love Vigor. I ran a game where powerful psionic PCs and enemies would get into horrid debuffing wars, and it's hilarious to lose 100's of temporary HP in a single round.

    Learning certain key discipline powers is a worthy investment. Psionic Dominate is much more useful than its arcane counterpart.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by CockroachTeaParty View Post
    I second the skipping of Psionic Body. Learn to use Vigor, learn to love Vigor. I ran a game where powerful psionic PCs and enemies would get into horrid debuffing wars, and it's hilarious to lose 100's of temporary HP in a single round.

    Learning certain key discipline powers is a worthy investment. Psionic Dominate is much more useful than its arcane counterpart.
    A side note on Vigor: it can, potentially, be a mixed blessing. If you've ever looked at Planar Traits, you may be aware of what happens when you go to the Positive Plane, affectionately referred to as "Death By Awesome". Thing is, Vigor puts you pretty close to the line already, and it's possible to summon Vivacious creatures with SNA 2 (say, a Vivacious Badger) that can bring that little bit of Planar essence with them in a sort of "mountain come to Mohammed" moment.

    Or, to quote CrimsonDeath: "He just dropped a Vigor! Throw a badger at him!"



    ....not something you really need to worry about, but at least worth noting.
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    Thumbs up Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I have 2 words for you: Ego Whip. Really, look into it. It doesn't begin to reach the true levels of awesome until level 7 when you can, with a bit of luck, put an orc (or most fighters) into a coma with 6 seconds and 7 pp. I once used it to take out the campaigns BBEG in one round. I was a level 19 Vanaran Telepath with Quicken Power, Maximize power, Twin Power, Psionic Meditation and Psicrystal containment...he was an advanced Julajeemus (I probably spelled that wrong...it's a big babboon thing from MM2) with 40 some HD...and a poor will save. It actually turned out he had a magic crown connecting him to his small demi-plane full of kidnapped children...transferring most of the damage to them, so I technically did enough to put 1 Epic level Julajeemus and approx 25 orphans in to comas...but still.

    Anyway, back on topic, I can say from experience that Telepaths rock, but Egoists do get the only Psionic Res spell, and they can temporarily clone themselves (Fission) too, something Magic can't do pre-epic...so it's good either way.

    ~Raiki~

    Edit: And if you plan on taking the "Psionic Fighter" line by using Vigor, Thicken Skin, et cetera, Elan with Improved Elan Resilience is totally the way to go. Spending 5 pp to completely negate the fighter's greatsword power attack? Win.
    Last edited by Raiki; 2009-09-02 at 05:51 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I'd like to focus on Egoist. I always liked being able to buff myself/the party and go to town. I thought about doing a Psionic fighter type with lots of self buffs, but aren't my stats a little lacking? It's equivalent to a 38 point buy, but with only one good stat and the rest sitting at +1. Hmm, I just took a look at Metamorphosis, and I think that could do the trick right there. Replace my mediocre ability scores by shapeshifting? Yes plz!

    Ok, so I'm really liking Elan with Enhanced Resilience and going with the self-buffing, uber psionic type. Would I perhaps be better off with a Psychic Warrior for more HP and better proficiencies? I've just found out we're not allowed flaws, so the bonus feats will help too. Thanks everybody for your help so far!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    First, remember that you don't want to go all blasty-blasty all the time. A 10th level wizard can toss out 10d6 fireballs using only their 3rd-level spell slots, but augmenting Energy Ray into 10d6 is equal to tossing out one of your strongest spells. It's not that you should never do so, just realize that you need to be more conservative with your augmentations so that you don't run out of PP halfway through the day.

    The Psion Egoist has some nice buffs, although you are generally very squishy out there. Spending PP on buffs will help extend your powers, because you won't be using as many - assuming you can fight. Buffing yourself only to turn around and Energy Ray someone in the face isn't very efficient.

    Psychic Warrior is tougher, but more focused on melee. Most Psychic Warriors work with feats (Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact + Power Attack) for dealing lots of damage with their attacks. For that matter, if you'll be working with metapsionics, consider Psionic Meditation and/or Psicrystal Containment.

    Consider the Wilder. It looks like a sorcerer to the Psion's wizard, but it's actually a lot tougher than the standard Psion - you get a larger HD, higher BAB, and Wild Surge for (effectively) free PP. Be wary of Enervation, though. Some feats from Complete Psionic, such as Enervation Endurance, will help the Wilder out.

    For prestige classes, Slayer is an obvious choice. For the cost of one feat and one manifester level, you get full BAB, better HD, and several very useful abilities. The Expanded Psionics Handbook version requires the party to take down a Mind Flayer before qualifying, so check with your DM on which version you'll be using (along with the likelyhood of fighting one before level 8). It is just as good for the Psychic Warrior and Wilder. If you don't mind manifester level loss, War Mind has some good stats and gives you access to Psychic Warrior powers, too. (Note that powers gained from War Mind are still limited to your War Mind level, though.)

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    A Psion fighter-type is actually a relatively easy thing to pull off. Yeah, your stats could use a bit more...well, just a bit more. But for a thought, would your DM let you 8 and 18? I've always thought it was a godsend for those times when you just roll poorly.

    As far as psychic warrior goes, it's really a mixed bag. Yeah, you get a d8, average BAB and some bonus feats, but your manifesting takes a really hard hit. On top of that, party-buffing really isn't their thing.

    I'd suggest going Egoist (Wilder would be okay too, but you'd miss out on the all important Metamorphosis powers) and just trying to tough it out using Vigor/Inertial Armor/Force Screen at 1-2 level, combining that with biofeedback and maybe concealing amorpha at 3-4, definately picking up share pain, forced at 5th, and killing time until you get your big guns (Metamorphosis and all that jazz) at 7th. I'd still recomend picking up Ego Whip along the way, ya know...since it's just awesome, But other than that it's a pretty solid build.

    ~Raiki~
    Last edited by Raiki; 2009-09-02 at 09:20 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I'm confused by what you mean with "8 and 18". Since we're starting at level 3, that doesn't sound like too bad an option to just go with Psion and use powers to offset some of my suckage.

    Speaking of powers, I'd like at least one direct damage power so I'm not relying on my crossbow or club for damage. What would be a good choice? I liked Mind Thrust until I saw that it's negated by a save. Crystal Shard perhaps? Since I'm planning on a gish-type build anyway, would it be forgivable to break the law of "Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster/Manifester Levels" for a level in something with more HP/proficiencies? Some levels in Warblade could be interesting, with more HP, skills, BAB, Fort save, some Int synergy, and maneuvers. I'm seeing possibly Warblade 1/Psion 2 for starters. Thoughts?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    "8 & 18" is a variant rule that allows you to drop your two lowest stats, replacing them with an 8 and an 18. For you, you would be losing two twelves...which effectively subtracts 4 from one (who needs charisma, you can roleplay cool) and adds 6 to another. Mathmatically sound.

    Now, I can't really comment on Warblade because (well, the flaming has to come sometime, might as well be now) my gaming group and I refuse to acknowledge tob as a legitimate book. To address the larger issue of "To multiclass or not to multiclass?" I would say it's generally not a good idea with Psions. A) You're pushing access to the good powers back by another level. B) Due to the manifester-level cap on augmentation, you're also diminishing the potential of almost every OTHER power you know. C) You can probably make due with a mwk weapon of your choice for 4 more levels until Metamorph opens up...then it's mostly natural weapons from there. D) More HP really isn't a problem when you just spam Vigor/Force Screen/Inertial Armor (You can already pump your HP total by 15 and your AC by 9).

    Also, if you want a direct damage power, you're looking for Energy Ray. Can be tooled to fit almost any encounter, scales with level, no saving throw...what else could you ask for?

    ~Raiki~

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiki View Post
    "8 & 18" is a variant rule that allows you to drop your two lowest stats, replacing them with an 8 and an 18. For you, you would be losing two twelves...which effectively subtracts 4 from one (who needs charisma, you can roleplay cool) and adds 6 to another. Mathmatically sound.

    Now, I can't really comment on Warblade because (well, the flaming has to come sometime, might as well be now) my gaming group and I refuse to acknowledge tob as a legitimate book. To address the larger issue of "To multiclass or not to multiclass?" I would say it's generally not a good idea with Psions. A) You're pushing access to the good powers back by another level. B) Due to the manifester-level cap on augmentation, you're also diminishing the potential of almost every OTHER power you know. C) You can probably make due with a mwk weapon of your choice for 4 more levels until Metamorph opens up...then it's mostly natural weapons from there. D) More HP really isn't a problem when you just spam Vigor/Force Screen/Inertial Armor (You can already pump your HP total by 15 and your AC by 9).

    Also, if you want a direct damage power, you're looking for Energy Ray. Can be tooled to fit almost any encounter, scales with level, no saving throw...what else could you ask for?

    ~Raiki~
    I'd go for Energy Missile over Energy Ray. Same damage per pp, multi-target, and the "save" portion can be at least partially negated by the flexibility to choose between Ref and Fort.

    That said, Crystal Shard and Energy Ray become badass when you start taking things like Greater Psionic Shot, Empower Power, and similar options to really pump the damage. Metapower is a good feat here, and can make the result much more terrifying.

    Mind Thrust... yeah, "Will Negates" kind of sucks, but 1d10 / level is the best out-of-the-box damage you're going to find. Still, you'll get plenty of other things to target Will, so play around and have some fun.

    Warblade... Warblades don't actually get much Int synergy until higher levels. They're a perfectly solid class though, and will provide a lot defensively more than offensively. Also, check out the Instant Clarity feat, and ponder the implications of that in conjunction with Deep Impact. My build for this concept with be Warblade 4 / PsiWar 2 / Warblade +14, or Warblade 4 / PsiWar 2 / Warmind 10 / Warblade +4.

    I could also see Warblade 1 / Psion 6 / Slayer 10 / Psion +3, with a few Martial Study feats thrown in.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I'd say, stick with pure Psion 20. You don't have the stats to be much of a Gish. Your stats were made for playing a SAD Manifester. And Psions are awesome. Like Wizards without most of the broken-ness (and less bookkeeping too).

    I guess a level of Warblade or Swordsage would be ok, just for the psionics/martial synergy (Instant Clarity, various Diamond Mind Concentration-based maneuvers). But don't try to actually be a melee type. You'll do better blasting and buffing and debuffing.

    I'm not a big Elan fan anyway, but the advice to stick with full Manifester levels goes double if you're an Elan. You need all the PP you can get to make those racial abilities worthwhile.

    Energy Ray and Energy Missile are both great "primary attacks" to have.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Lower levels arcane spells are usually a drag, but lower level psionic powers are often just higher ones waiting to be augmented.
    ... is sig-worthy. Psionics in a nutshell.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Ok, so I've decided on straight up Psion(Egoist) and I'll use buffs to make myself not suck at combat. I've also decided I'd rather go with Human than Elan since Vigor is 1 PP for 5 damage and even with the feat, the Elan Resilience is 1 PP for 4 damage. Also the extra feat looks tasty.

    So, I'm trying to decide my feats and powers. So far for feats, I'm liking the following list, of which I'll choose 4.

    Psionic Body (I know it's been recommended against, but I'm thinking I'll end up with quite a few Psionic feats, like around 5 or 6 of them total. That 14 extra HP is as almost 3 whole HD for me and my d4+1)

    Narrow Mind (not sure how often I'll be expending my focus unless I take a metapsionic feat and I'm not sure any of them are worth taking at lvl 3. Perhaps I'd be better off with Skill Focus: Concentration?)

    Overchannel + Talented (seems pretty nifty, ah and Talented would be a good reason to expend my focus too)

    Speed of Thought (fits the theme of uber psion improving herself with her powers)

    Extend Power (I will have lot of buffs which will work well with this, but just wondered if it's worth it since I'll only be able to extend 1st level powers at level 3 like we're starting)

    Metapower (ok so I probably won't end up with this one by level 3, but it's darn cool to say always extend Inertial Armor for free)

    Also, as for powers so far I have:
    1st - Thicken Skin, Energy Ray, Vigor, Inertial Armor
    2nd - Animal Affinity

    I need one more of each level. For first, I like Skate, Force Screen, and Offensive Precognition so that I can contribute a bit better in combat. For second, I'm liking Concealing Amorpha, Share Pain, Swarm of Crystals, and Empathic Transfer. Thoughts on power choices?

    Again, thanks everybody for you input so far!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Rahl22 View Post
    Ok, so I've decided on straight up Psion(Egoist) and I'll use buffs to make myself not suck at combat. I've also decided I'd rather go with Human than Elan since Vigor is 1 PP for 5 damage and even with the feat, the Elan Resilience is 1 PP for 4 damage. Also the extra feat looks tasty.
    Nice.

    Psionic Body (I know it's been recommended against, but I'm thinking I'll end up with quite a few Psionic feats, like around 5 or 6 of them total. That 14 extra HP is as almost 3 whole HD for me and my d4+1)
    Here's why people are recommending against Psionic Body: it's worse than Improved Toughness. You can't take it until Level 6, but it would get you 20 HP in the long run as opposed to 14. So switch -- or just stop worrying so much about your (pre-Vigor) Hit Point total.

    Psionic Body can be worth it on a character that plans to take at least 10 Psionic feats. You won't (because Metapsionic feats don't count, and you'll eventually take a lot of those). It's pretty much just for Psychic Warriors, which get more bonus feats than Psions and don't get as much use out of Metapsionics.

    Narrow Mind (not sure how often I'll be expending my focus unless I take a metapsionic feat and I'm not sure any of them are worth taking at lvl 3. Perhaps I'd be better off with Skill Focus: Concentration?)
    Skill Focus is indeed better than Narrow Mind. Which should probably be a red flag that Narrow Mind is pretty terrible. I wouldn't even take Skill Focus, but you can if you want; it's at least better than the alternatives (Narrow Mind or Combat Manifestation).

    Overchannel + Talented (seems pretty nifty, ah and Talented would be a good reason to expend my focus too)
    These are great.

    Speed of Thought (fits the theme of uber psion improving herself with her powers)
    I'm a fan of this feat, and putting your 13 Wisdom to good use is nice. But this is really a melee feat. I worry that as a manifester you won't find your mobility needs to be high enough to make this worthwhile.

    Extend Power (I will have lot of buffs which will work well with this, but just wondered if it's worth it since I'll only be able to extend 1st level powers at level 3 like we're starting)
    Extended 1st level powers can still be pretty nifty. This isn't a terrible choice, and it will get better over time.

    The hands-down best Metapsionic feat at low levels, though, is Linked Power (from CPsi). If you have any swift-action manifested powers, Linked Power is like a free Quicken (with just enough restrictions tacked on to keep it from being imbalanced).

    Metapower (ok so I probably won't end up with this one by level 3, but it's darn cool to say always extend Inertial Armor for free)
    Meh. Essentially this feat just gives you 2 PP every time you use a certain power with a certain metapsionic feat. How often will you use your Extended Inertial Armor? Probably no more than 2/day at low levels, or 1/day at medium/high levels. 4 or 2 PP is not really worth a feat -- and if 2 PP is worth a feat, you're better off taking Psionic Talent.

    After you have Quicken Power, you can take another look at Metapower. If you find yourself manifesting Quickened Energy Ray several times every combat, then you can take Metapower for it.

    Do you not want a Psicrystal? They can be extremely useful if you know how to use them. Combo'd with the Vigor and Share Pain powers, the Psicrystal Affinity feat will be way better for your HP total than Psionic Body or Improved Toughness.

    At level 3, you could actually consider taking Expanded Knowledge already to cherry-pick an excellent Level 1 power. Do you want Astral Construct or Mindlink?

    At level 5 or 6, you will likely want to pick Psionic Meditation.

    Also, as for powers so far I have:
    1st - Thicken Skin, Energy Ray, Vigor, Inertial Armor
    2nd - Animal Affinity
    Thicken Skin is not my favorite. If you're going to be wasting PP on short-term AC buffs, you should at least have it affect your Touch AC too (e.g. Defensive Precognition). But at least Thicken Skin has a longer duration ... Really, just remember that AC is kind of an all-or-nothing thing for an optimized character. Either make sure your AC is really good by stacking a lot of bonus types onto it, or don't worry about it very much at all. (Inertial Armor is still worth it, though, since it's cheap to augment and lasts all day. Some Psions just wear Full Plate with nonproficiency and never make attack rolls, instead of Inertial Armor, but it's clear you're going to make attack rolls sometimes, so Inertial Armor is good -- along with +1 Padded Armor with a bunch of enhancements on it.)

    Energy Ray is nice. Vigor is, of course, fantastic. Animal Affinity ... well, I still worry about a character with your stats trying to be a gish and participate in melee, but I suppose if you're really set on that, Animal Affinity will indeed help quite a bit.

    I need one more of each level. For first, I like Skate, Force Screen, and Offensive Precognition so that I can contribute a bit better in combat. For second, I'm liking Concealing Amorpha, Share Pain, Swarm of Crystals, and Empathic Transfer. Thoughts on power choices?
    If you decide you're focusing on AC, you probably should grab Thicken Skin, Defensive Precognition, and Force Screen. Although you don't have to grab them all this early ... you can wait for a while on some.

    Skate is flavorful but weak. If you really need speed, Speed of Thought is a more reliable way to get it.

    Even if you're determined to be a part-time melee fighter, Offensive Precognition probably isn't worth it. That's another standard action you have to use up at the beginning of every combat before you start actually attacking, and its duration is short.

    Share Pain is only worth it if you know one of your allies will be intending to soak up your damage often (like a Psicrystal, or maybe a Dragon Shaman or Paladin who likes healing himself).

    Concealing Amorpha is a great example of the kind of defensive powers you should take if you don't focus on AC. Even if you do focus on AC, you might want it eventually. It's pretty nice. Note that there's a Greater version that's even better, and you won't want both; but since you're not a Shaper, you would have to spend a feat to get the Greater version.

    Empathic Transfer isn't worth it if you have a Cleric in the party. Otherwise, your party will probably be very appreciative of you becoming a secondary healer like this. This power also becomes a lot better if you use the Psicrystal Affinity/Vigor/Share Pain combo.

    Swarm of Crystals ... meh. In practice, 15-foot cones are surprisingly small. Catching even two enemies in them is hard.

    I'm surprised you didn't mention Hustle. It's a fantastic power, if you (a) fight in melee, or (b) take Psionic Meditation and want to recover your Psionic Focus mid-combat, or (c) take Linked Power. Oh wait, my bad; I forget that it's a 3rd-level power for Egoists. So you can't take it yet.

    If you're the party's primary wizard-role character, you should probably take Detect Psionics. Call to Mind is a rather nice utility power. For attack powers that do something besides just damage, there's always Psionic Grease or Ego Whip. I also like Detect Hostile Intent. On a dedicated self-buffer, Adrenaline Boost (from CPsi) can be worth it, just to fuel Linked Power.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2009-09-03 at 12:16 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Wow, huge wall of text there. Ok, so I'm certainly not going to be wading into melee with stats like mine. The gish thing was when I was considering multiclassing, and now that that's out I'll just use buffs to keep my AC higher than 11 and to allow me to use my crossbow now and then when I want to conserve PP. In fact, Animal Affinity will likely be used for Dex (more AC, better at ranged touch attacks, better reflex save, Dex skills) or Con (better fort save, more HP).

    Good point about Improved Toughness. I can't believe I forgot about that feat, but I generally don't think about taking it with classes that don't start with a +2 Fort. Not because I don't like it, but because I usually only think about it at first level. :)

    As for Linked Power and Extended, I'll consider them for the future but for now I think I'll go with Overchannel, Talented, Psicrystal Affinity, and Expanded Knowledge for either Mindlink or Astral Construct as those both seem really good. And yes, I have already earmarked level 5 for Psionic Meditation. I previously hadn't looked at Psicrystal because I had assumed it was like familiars which are generally considered worthless. I take it that's not the case. Anything other than Vigor/Share Pain/Empathic Transfer fun combos to look into?

    I'm thinking my 2nd level powers will be Animal Affinity and Share Pain, although now that I think about it I could switch out Animal Affinity for Concealing Amorpha. Hmm, I'll have to think about that some more. Thanks for the great tips so far guys. Keep em coming!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Psicrystals: If you're going to be using alot of Metapsionic feats (and really...who doesn't? they're just awesome) you should look into Psicrystal
    Containment. Otherwise, stacking Metapsionic feats won't happen for you.

    Powers: I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here...but really, read up on Ego Whip. Not only is it good, but with feats and augmentation, it really does become an awesome Save-Or-Lose power. With a pumpable DC at that. And might I point out that the Will save is for Half? Which actually makes it more of a Suck-Or-Lose power. Win/Win. Well...for you anyway.

    Again...that's my two coppers.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Ok, so I've decided to switch to a Kineticist. With Egoist as my discipline, I was just too tempted to buff myself and fight, and I really don't have the stats for it. Kineticist has some fun blasting, and Control Object/Body look freakin cool.

    So, current feat list is Overchannel, Talented, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment so that my crystal can expend focus for Talented for me. I'm still planning on grabbing Psionic Meditation and at least one Metapsionic feat soon. Is Privileged Energy > Dazzling Energy worthwhile?

    Also, I'm adding Control Object to my list of 1st level powers, and making my 2nd level ones Energy Missile and Ego Whip, happy? (I'll forgive your blasphemy against ToB this time because I finally looked up what happens when you hit 0 Charisma )

    So, you all have done a great job helping me figure out what I wanted to do and some of the cool things about Psionics. Thanks a bunch, and of course I'm open to any more suggestions as well.

    Oh, what should I do with my gold? We're starting at level 3, so 2700gp. I haven't seen anything incredibly useful. I thought of grabbing a MW Buckler (no AC so doesn't matter if I'm not proficient) and a MW Light Crossbow (for when I'm out of/don't want to spend PP) and that leaves me with 2200 still. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Master_Rahl22; 2009-09-03 at 09:23 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Make sure you pick up Psychic Reformation as your 4th level power. It lets you change your feats and powers for a small amount of xp. So just make the best build you can until 8th level, then start changing things as you need to!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Hmm, that's an interesting strategy. Can I change disciplines too? I liked Egoist, but at such low levels didn't have much to help me in combat. If I could be a Kineticist early levels and change to an Egoist once Metamorphosis is available, that would be awesome.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Rahl22 View Post
    Ok, so I've decided to switch to a Kineticist. With Egoist as my discipline, I was just too tempted to buff myself and fight, and I really don't have the stats for it. Kineticist has some fun blasting, and Control Object/Body look freakin cool.

    So, current feat list is Overchannel, Talented, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment so that my crystal can expend focus for Talented for me. I'm still planning on grabbing Psionic Meditation and at least one Metapsionic feat soon. Is Privileged Energy > Dazzling Energy worthwhile?

    Also, I'm adding Control Object to my list of 1st level powers, and making my 2nd level ones Energy Missile and Ego Whip, happy? (I'll forgive your blasphemy against ToB this time because I finally looked up what happens when you hit 0 Charisma )

    So, you all have done a great job helping me figure out what I wanted to do and some of the cool things about Psionics. Thanks a bunch, and of course I'm open to any more suggestions as well.

    Oh, what should I do with my gold? We're starting at level 3, so 2700gp. I haven't seen anything incredibly useful. I thought of grabbing a MW Buckler (no AC so doesn't matter if I'm not proficient) and a MW Light Crossbow (for when I'm out of/don't want to spend PP) and that leaves me with 2200 still. Thoughts?
    I hope you mean ACP, not AC.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Kineticist 18/Anarchic Initiate 2 w/Overchannel is a quite solid build.
    Basically, whenever you use Overchannel, you have a 25% chance of free-maximize, 25% chance of free-empower, and 25% chance of half-damage.
    Added up, that is around 25% average increase in damage, which is nice. Anarchic Initiate 3 gives you Enervation, which should be avoided if you can.
    With full-augmentation, the feat that gives +1/dice to damage, and Overchannel, you're looking at a (23d6+46)*1.25 = 200 damage at 5 people, 20 times/day, at 32+Int save DC, possibly Fort to avoid cover&evasion. I know, it's not too impressive, but you're looking at a single power of the kineticist, you can still spam Ego Whip and whatnot if you wish.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiki View Post
    Psicrystals: If you're going to be using alot of Metapsionic feats (and really...who doesn't? they're just awesome) you should look into Psicrystal
    Containment. Otherwise, stacking Metapsionic feats won't happen for you.

    Powers: I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here...but really, read up on Ego Whip. Not only is it good, but with feats and augmentation, it really does become an awesome Save-Or-Lose power. With a pumpable DC at that. And might I point out that the Will save is for Half? Which actually makes it more of a Suck-Or-Lose power. Win/Win. Well...for you anyway.

    Again...that's my two coppers.

    ~Raiki~
    It's a mind effecting power, so it's not always a win/win situation. It's still good, but not an be all end all power.

    Edit: And for more ego whip goodness, with enough level and feats ( overchannel, talented, psionic meditation, expanded knowledge on to two times) go with fully augmented (overcanneled:talented) ego whip + hustle (regain psionic focus) + schismed fully augmented (overchannel:talented) ego whip for added fun.
    Last edited by Arakune; 2009-09-04 at 08:38 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Rahl22 View Post
    I previously hadn't looked at Psicrystal because I had assumed it was like familiars which are generally considered worthless. I take it that's not the case. Anything other than Vigor/Share Pain/Empathic Transfer fun combos to look into?
    I'm not an expert, but there's two main things to keep in mind for Psicrystals that differentiate them from familiars:

    - they gain feats as you go up in level, and
    - they have Hardness 8, which makes them a lot less likely to die accidentally.

    So what's your full planned power selection at this point? You probably shouldn't take Energy Ray and Energy Missile, at least not at this low level.

    Psicrystal Containment is a good feat, but I'd save it for later if I were you. Until you have Metapsionic feats, you won't be expending your Focus all that often.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2009-09-04 at 11:05 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Powers right now are looking like:
    Control Object
    Entangling Ectoplasm
    Inertial Armor
    Psionic Grease
    Vigor

    Energy Missile
    Ego Whip

    Regarding Psicrystal Containment, I had planned to use it for the free Overchannel with Talented. Should I maybe grab Linked Power or some other metapsionic feat instead?

    Oh, and no recommendations for items?
    Last edited by Master_Rahl22; 2009-09-04 at 12:01 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Rahl22 View Post
    Hmm, that's an interesting strategy. Can I change disciplines too? I liked Egoist, but at such low levels didn't have much to help me in combat. If I could be a Kineticist early levels and change to an Egoist once Metamorphosis is available, that would be awesome.
    No, it's only for feats, skills, spells, and powers. You could take expanded knowledge a couple times, though, and then swap out energy ray for schism at a higher level. Getting a 1st level power for a feat is much more useful than doing the same for a spell, since you can augment powers.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuan View Post
    It's a mind effecting power, so it's not always a win/win situation. It's still good, but not an be all end all power.

    Edit: And for more ego whip goodness, with enough level and feats ( overchannel, talented, psionic meditation, expanded knowledge on to two times) go with fully augmented (overcanneled:talented) ego whip + hustle (regain psionic focus) + schismed fully augmented (overchannel:talented) ego whip for added fun.
    Mmm...yeah, good catch with the Mind Affecting...I'd actually forgotten that little part of it (1d4 facepalm damage). But that still only counteracts undead, constructs, and people with strange class features. 99% of targets are going to be valid.

    And as a note on Schism...sorry chum, Telepath only power. Though I suppose that Expanded Knowledge takes care of that at later levels (9+).


    As far as egoist goes, I'd say that even though they make better blasters than Magic users due to the augmentation factor, but really...a blaster is still just a blaster. They can be fun, but don't expect to rule any worlds with them. You'll also have fewer "I manifest this and this and this and oh yeah, I win." moments.

    I'd actually suggest Telepath (because it's obligatory because I'm a fanboy) or Egoist because Metamorphosis is really just that awesome. Though again...at level 9+ Expanded Knowledge is your friend.

    I suppose I should just say that Psion is a versatile enough class that you can generally do whatever you want and it will still come out to at least GOOD so long as you don't actively TRY to be sub-average.

    And that's all the time I have for now...I'll recommend some items for you next post.

    ~Raiki~

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    If you aren't Psychic Reformationing your Expanded Knowledges to get your Schism, you're doin' it wrong!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    I want to do some serious psionic homebrewing and make psionic cleric, druid, and wizard classes. It seems to be a better base line than using spell point rules for the existing classes.

    I like the system, but don't have too much experience how psions and psychic warriors actually do in a game. Could anyone guide me to pages, articles, or forum threads that explain and elaborate on how psionic rules affect gameplay, how they change how the game is played and how to make the most of the XPH? Anything is appreciated that might help me better understand how psionics REALLY work if you take a deeper look into the finer details of the system.

    I know that psionic rules make it easy to go nova, and that CPsi is sait to be pretty bad. ^^
    Last edited by Yora; 2009-09-07 at 08:34 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Making a Psion, help requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I know that psionic rules make it easy to go nova, and that CPsi is sait to be pretty bad. ^^
    CPsi doesn't fully deserve its bad rep. In particular, the Ardent is already very close to this "psionic cleric" you speak of.

    Here is a classic thread on the power of psionics. It's written specifically to refute psionics being overpowered, but once upon I time I found it helpful to help me understand the psionics system in general.
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