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    Default What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Sortilegic Craftsman

    Seldenian Akrinspar, a sortilegic craftsman creating a potent magic sword

    Artificers are thought to be the indisputable craftsman of the world, and wizards think themselves a close second if not a tie for the first. Sortilegic craftsmen think themselves above and beyond both worlds by combining the two and achieving new techniques neither could do on their own. They specialize in meshing their magic with their items and continuing the crafting secrets they would gain without this class. Advancing in this class allows a character to manipulate magic items and their effects, how they would work on both themselves and others and even imbuing individuals with the very aura of magic items instead of the physical items themselves.

    HD: d4

    Requirements
    Skills: Craft 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks, Use Magic Device 4 ranks
    Feats: Any four Item Creation feats.
    Infusions: Ability to use 2nd level infusions.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells, including at least one spell of the Creation subschool.
    Special: Must have created a magic item which has a price of at least 10,000 gp(not the creation cost, but the buying cost). Craft Reserve and Item Creation class features.

    Class Skills: Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Dicipher Script, Disable Device, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Knowledge (the planes), Open Lock, Profression, Search, Spellcraft and Use Magic Device.
    Skill-points per level: 4+Int modifier

    {table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
    1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Bonus feat, craft reserve
    2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Craft magic arms and armor
    3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Item shares spell
    4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Craft wand, retain essence
    5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Animate magic items, bonus feat
    6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Craft rod
    7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Magic item aura
    8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Bonus feat
    9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Craft staff
    10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Arcane craft expertise
    [/table]

    {table="head"]Level|Spellcasting|Infusions
    1st|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    2nd|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    3rd|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    4th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    5th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    6th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    7th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    8th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    9th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    10th|+1 of existing spellcasting class|+1 of existing infusion using class
    [/table]

    Weapon and armor proficiencies: Sortilegic craftsmen gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Spellcasting: At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level(and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a sortilegic craftsman, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

    Infusions: At each level, a sortilegic craftsman gain an increase in caster level as if you had also gained a level in a infusion-using class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained(except Craft Reserve and other class features noted, see below). If you had more than one infusion-using class before becoming a sortilegic craftsman, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining caster level.

    Bonus Feats: As a sortilegic craftsman progresses, he gains bonus feats that aid him in his ability to craft magic items. At 2nd level, you gain Craft Magical Arms and Armor, at 4th level you gain Craft Wand, at 6th level you gain Craft Rod and at 9th level you gain Craft Staff. At 1st, 5th and 8th levels you gain any other item creation feats for which you qualify for.

    Craft Reserve: Your arcane skill and item creation talents begin to grow with equal measure. Your artificer and sortilegic craftsman levels stack for determining your effective level of your Craft Reserve.

    Item Shares Spell (Su): At 3rd level, the sortilegic craftsman learns how to attach the magical items he creates to his soul through tiny, invisible strings of essence. First, you are capable of using any infusion on any magic item you created despite the distance it is away from you, except across planes. Secondly, any spell you cast on yourself, you can choose to have effect the items you've created so long as they are being held or worn by someone else. If you concentrate, you can also have the spell effect the people wearing the items as well but you can only do so for a number of rounds per day equal to your character level, which may be distributed round per round as you please.

    Retain Essence (Su): Just as the artificer class feature, gained at 4th level.

    Animate Magic Item (Su): At 5th level, you learn the ability to go above and beyond the limits of artificial animation and can make magic items you create into animate constructs. This ability functions exactly like the animate objects spell with a caster level equal to your own but can only work on items you have created(magic or nonmagic). You can only animate one item at a time, but can have any number of nonmagical items animated equal to twice your sortilegic craftsman level, a number of magic items animated equal to your sortilegic craftsman level or any combination thereof. Items animated this way must be in your possession when this ability is used.

    Magic Item Aura (Su): At 7th level, you gain the unique ability to create magical items that can be altered to share some of the qualities of spell auras. By expending twice the normal amount of XP for the magic item, the item can become insubstantial but still give the benefits of the item. This means that the items are no longer subject to damage from spells, such as those from a natural 1 on a Reflex save or sundering. This ability cannot be used on items that physically need to be physical to be used, such as magic weapons or armor, but when the item is not used it can become insubstantial and simply unusable. Changing a magic item from physical to insubstantial or vice versa requires a swift action.
    Magic items that are created this way can still be affected by infusions and the item share spells class feature.

    Arcane Craft Expertise (Su): At 10th level, you gain insight into the ultimate talent of imbuing magic into magic items. If crafting a magic item by yourself, if you know the prerequisite spells or have it prepared for use and if you successfully use your Item Creation artificer class feature to mimic the prerequisite spell or spells you can enhance the power of a magic items in many different ways. The effective caster level of the item is equal to your own +2. If the item has any kind of saving throw for any of it's effects, the save DC improves by two. If the item has charges, it has an additional amount of charges added to it's total equal to half the normal amount it has. If the item added an enhancement bonus to attack rolls or armor class, that bonus increases by +1(to a maximum of +5 unless the craftsman has a caster level of 21st or more). If the item had uses per day, the uses per day increase by one.
    These bonuses do not increase the time, gp cost or XP the item would normally require to have crafted.

    ----

    Look, guys! I just put the two most powerful classes in the game together! Awesome!
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    I don't know much about artificers or infusions, but I like this class! Very cool.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Neoclassic View Post
    I don't know much about artificers or infusions, but I like this class! Very cool.
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    "Item share spells" seems too powerful. Worst case, imagine a cleric/artificer with divine meta-magic persist, persisting every one of his personal range only spells on every party member(Bad enough when it didn't include . Best case, DMM is banned, and the Sortilegic Craftsman is still casting spells on every single party member that were never meant to be used that way. DM's Case, you've got yourself a plot, where an evil Sortilegic Craftsman Lich is creating items simply to enervate the world.
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    The last ability should just increase the amount of charges on an item by half the normal charges. Half your caster level is awkward, and it's weird when you have wondrous items with multiple types of charges, and it is kind of unbalanced when you get +10 charges to both a wand with 50 charges and that weapon reroll property that lets you reroll anything 7 times.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    "Item share spells" seems too powerful. Worst case, imagine a cleric/artificer with divine meta-magic persist, persisting every one of his personal range only spells on every party member(Bad enough when it didn't include . Best case, DMM is banned, and the Sortilegic Craftsman is still casting spells on every single party member that were never meant to be used that way. DM's Case, you've got yourself a plot, where an evil Sortilegic Craftsman Lich is creating items simply to enervate the world.
    Well, clerics can't access this class by virtue of being a cleric alone, and the cleric would have to never stop concentrating. But I see your point, I can probably put a number of rounds on there for how long they can concentrate and share the spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    The last ability should just increase the amount of charges on an item by half the normal charges. Half your caster level is awkward, and it's weird when you have wondrous items with multiple types of charges, and it is kind of unbalanced when you get +10 charges to both a wand with 50 charges and that weapon reroll property that lets you reroll anything 7 times.
    That would be a bit too many, I figure 75 charges per wand/staff is worse than 60 charges(at 20th level).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Well, clerics can't access this class by virtue of being a cleric alone, and the cleric would have to never stop concentrating. But I see your point, I can probably put a number of rounds on there for how long they can concentrate and share the spells.
    Still doesn't solve the whole 'craftsman enervates planet with one 4th level spell' issue(It can be done at tenth level, provided a form of negative energy protection is used. Perhaps limiting targets per spell to class level number of targets, forcing concentration checks to maintain it(if lost, loses everything, like a house of cards)*, limit which spells can be used this way and preventing metamagic used in tandem with the ability would be better(or at least some of it).

    *If it were rounds/level, it won't be used as much, but it'll be an uninteresting limitation(imho). While forcing concentration checks on normal durations allows normal buffing efforts, but makes tactical consequences that the DM can strike at to add interesting points to otherwise low-cr'ed combats(I mean, how hard is it to make a character blow a concentration check when you want him to blow it).
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    I mean, how hard is it to make a character blow a concentration check when you want him to blow it.
    Depends very much on how bad he wants to pass it. Pumping skills is generally not that hard.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Still doesn't solve the whole 'craftsman enervates planet with one 4th level spell' issue(It can be done at tenth level, provided a form of negative energy protection is used. Perhaps limiting targets per spell to class level number of targets, forcing concentration checks to maintain it(if lost, loses everything, like a house of cards)*, limit which spells can be used this way and preventing metamagic used in tandem with the ability would be better(or at least some of it).

    *If it were rounds/level, it won't be used as much, but it'll be an uninteresting limitation(imho). While forcing concentration checks on normal durations allows normal buffing efforts, but makes tactical consequences that the DM can strike at to add interesting points to otherwise low-cr'ed combats(I mean, how hard is it to make a character blow a concentration check when you want him to blow it).
    Hmm... I could possibly limit it to a number of magic items that can imbue it's wearer with the spell, say a number of items equal to their Int or Cha modifier. That allows you to help out at least most of the party instead of enervating the entire world.
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Bonus Feats: As a sortilegic craftsman progresses, he gains bonus feats that aid him in his ability to craft magic items. At 2nd level, you gain Craft Magical Arms and Armor, at 4th level you gain Craft Wand, at 6th level you gain Craft Rod and at 9th level you gain Craft Staff.
    Hmm. This penalizes the character for taking these feats as soon as possible (M A&A is delayed 2 levels, Wand is delayed 4, Rod 2, and Staff again 2).

    Also, you give 4 specific item crafting feats, plus another 3 of any you like, and you require 4 to enter. That's 11 item creation feats... that's an awful lot. Especially considering how many item creation feats require other forms of "casting" (incarnum, psionics, etc), you're likely to end up taking rather weak feats. Which may not be the end of the world, since 7 bonus feats is a lot, and item crafting is rather feat-intensive anyway, but still... I dunno, it strikes me as stretching things just to find feats to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Look, guys! I just put the two most powerful classes in the game together! Awesome!
    Yeah, and cost one 3 levels and the other 7. One thing you might consider is doing something similar to what I did with Cerebremancer - have less than perfect advancement on each side, but allow earlier entry and make a capstone that allows them to continue advancing both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Yeah, and cost one 3 levels and the other 7. One thing you might consider is doing something similar to what I did with Cerebremancer - have less than perfect advancement on each side, but allow earlier entry and make a capstone that allows them to continue advancing both.
    Wait, I thought it was possible to get into this with 3 levels of each...albeit, at the cost 340 xp(From creating the 10k gp item, using 60 from his craft reserve).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Wait, I thought it was possible to get into this with 3 levels of each...albeit, at the cost 340 xp(From creating the 10k gp item, using 60 from his craft reserve).
    You enter at 3/3, but then you get to 3/3/10 and you cannot continue to advance both. You advance one, so you end up with 17/13, which is... a bit sub-par. I've never played an Artificer, but I'd be doubtful that 13th level Infusions are worth losing 3 spell levels...

    More than being sub-optimal, it's just annoying. It's impossible to do theurgy right because of it.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-09-06 at 01:03 AM.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Hmm. This penalizes the character for taking these feats as soon as possible (M A&A is delayed 2 levels, Wand is delayed 4, Rod 2, and Staff again 2).

    Also, you give 4 specific item crafting feats, plus another 3 of any you like, and you require 4 to enter. That's 11 item creation feats... that's an awful lot. Especially considering how many item creation feats require other forms of "casting" (incarnum, psionics, etc), you're likely to end up taking rather weak feats. Which may not be the end of the world, since 7 bonus feats is a lot, and item crafting is rather feat-intensive anyway, but still... I dunno, it strikes me as stretching things just to find feats to take.
    The artificer gets all of the basic(and a few of the not-so-basic) item creation feats as bonus feats. So many feats doesn't penalize them much if at all, and the bonus feats gained by this class don't step on the normal feats a character gets anyway... and for characters who specialize so well in the ways of item creation like the artificer, it's hardly underpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    You enter at 3/3, but then you get to 3/3/10 and you cannot continue to advance both. You advance one, so you end up with 17/13, which is... a bit sub-par. I've never played an Artificer, but I'd be doubtful that 13th level Infusions are worth losing 3 spell levels...

    More than being sub-optimal, it's just annoying. It's impossible to do theurgy right because of it.
    Typically what I do in these cases are either allow them to advance the two 'casting' abilities at the same time without giving more class features(except ones that gradually increase as you go), make one that's 14 levels long, or create two PrC's that follow the same dual path. True it suffers from the mystic theurge syndrome, but I try my best to cover that over one way or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre View Post
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    You enter at 3/3, but then you get to 3/3/10 and you cannot continue to advance both. You advance one, so you end up with 17/13, which is... a bit sub-par. I've never played an Artificer, but I'd be doubtful that 13th level Infusions are worth losing 3 spell levels...

    More than being sub-optimal, it's just annoying. It's impossible to do theurgy right because of it.
    A)Does Artificer qualify for the generic mystic theurge?

    B)If you're talking a L20 wiz 7/art 3/craftsman 10, its 0 spell levels, since he can still cast 9th level spells(and I assume you are, since you mention '13th' level infusions, which stops being an artificer's highest infusions for any other build). Caster levels aren't lost either, thanks to practiced spellcaster. Admittedly, the early game is where it really kills, giving up 1 1/2 spell levels.
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Krimm, who did you sell your soul to for this talent at creating? I want talent, dagnabbit.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre View Post
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    Don't give Krimm kredit for that. He's the artist, his friend's the poet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    The artificer gets all of the basic(and a few of the not-so-basic) item creation feats as bonus feats. So many feats doesn't penalize them much if at all, and the bonus feats gained by this class don't step on the normal feats a character gets anyway... and for characters who specialize so well in the ways of item creation like the artificer, it's hardly underpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    A)Does Artificer qualify for the generic mystic theurge?
    No, Infusions are specifically neither Arcane nor Divine magic, and therefore the Artificer does not meet the "Able to cast 2nd level spells" requirement for Mystic Theurge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    B)If you're talking a L20 wiz 7/art 3/craftsman 10, its 0 spell levels, since he can still cast 9th level spells(and I assume you are, since you mention '13th' level infusions, which stops being an artificer's highest infusions for any other build). Caster levels aren't lost either, thanks to practiced spellcaster. Admittedly, the early game is where it really kills, giving up 1 1/2 spell levels.
    I meant "levels of a spellcasting/infusion-using class" when I said spell/infusion level. Sorry for that confusion. 17th level spellcasting (i.e. 9th level spells) is great, but not getting that til 20 means you should be getting some incredible stuff in return - and while I've never played an Artificer and can't specifically comment, I do know that 13th level spellcasting of another class is not worth 3 lost levels in your primary spellcasting class; I suspect 13th level infusion-using isn't either.

    Though, I could certainly see this as a better item crafter than any other, which is what it's supposed to be, of course. I'd consider knocking the spellcasting requirement to 1st level spells, though, and allow entry at 5 (Wiz 1/Art 3/Sort 1), so you can get into the class earlier, and those feats are delayed less. Because no matter what you do, Wiz 3/Art 3 is going to suck.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistofCain View Post
    Krimm, who did you sell your soul to for this talent at creating? I want talent, dagnabbit.
    I don't know. All I remember is a fiddle contest, a lot of cursing in what I assumed was a more evil dialect of french and then being able to shoot prestige classes out of my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Demented One View Post
    Don't give Krimm kredit for that. He's the artist, his friend's the poet.
    Now I'll never raise my snail-armies, you fool!
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Demented One View Post
    Don't give Krimm kredit for that. He's the artist, his friend's the poet.
    Hehe, interesting fact: this thread is the third hit on Google for that line (in quotes; fifth without).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Hehe, interesting fact: this thread is the third hit on Google for that line (in quotes; fifth without).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    That would be a bit too many, I figure 75 charges per wand/staff is worse than 60 charges(at 20th level).
    i disagree by a long shot. +15 charges at 20th level to an item with some sort of "normal" magical function (wand, staff, etc), is much preferable and inconsequential to a rare item that normally only gives 1 or 3 charges or something similar (generally cooler, more powerful abilities) that now gets 13 charges or so.

    other than that, cool class; though i wouldn't want to dm a high level game with one of these guys in it.
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2009-09-07 at 12:43 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    I did something like this myself a while back, though they do have a lot of differences. Check it out if you'd like, its called the Arcane Smith.

    Some pretty potent class features, though. It's hard to make a class like this without it being over powered though.

    Good show.

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Aw, what the hell!? I was expecting tigers!

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    Aw, what the hell!? I was expecting tigers!
    I was expecting sheep.

    We both were disappointed.
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    Aw, what the hell!? I was expecting tigers!
    Really? I was expecting something to do with Vecna's eye/hand, and a smithing class is decently close.
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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Really? I was expecting something to do with Vecna's eye/hand, and a smithing class is decently close.
    "What immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry" is a line from a poem by William Blake about a tiger:
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    The Tyger

    Tyger, Tyger, burning bright
    In the forests of the night,
    What immortal hand or eye
    Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

    In what distant deeps or skies
    Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
    On what wings dare he aspire?
    What the hand dare seize the fire?

    And what shoulder, & what art,
    Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
    And when thy heart began to beat,
    What dread hand? & what dread feet?

    What the hammer? what the chain?
    In what furnace was thy brain?
    What the anvil? what dread grasp
    Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

    When the stars threw down their spears
    And water'd heaven with their tears,
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    Tyger, Tyger, burning bright
    In the forests of the night,
    What immortal hand or eye
    Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    Actually,I was also expecting something to do with Vecna's eye/hand-this is a formum dedicated to a webcomic parody of D & D after all..<a href="http://onnachance.com/quiz/qz4.php" target="new">
    <img src="http://onnachance.com/quiz/life.jpg">
    </a><br />
    Take the <a href="http://onnachance.com/quiz/qz4.php" target="new">Role-Playing Stereotype</a> quiz.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: What Immortal Hand Or Eye Dare Frame Thy Fearful Symmetry? [PrC]

    This is freaking awesome. I am sooo using this to make Ganmen, gestalting with warblade to get Twin Spirit. :D

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