Arena Tournament, Round 69: Macintosh & Forge vs. Shooter McArcher & Team Player

[RPGAgmJAY]

Forge - Round 10

Guess the cat's out of the bag... but my actions remain hidden. =)

Refs & LoS:

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Standard Action: Attempt to cast spell from scroll:
UMD Check (DC21): (1d20+11)[16]
If successful, pop the spoiler below, otherwise ignore as scroll fails to activate:

Spoiler

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Shield scroll successfully cast, targeting self. Duration: 1 minute

Forge will then take a move action to draw an alchemist's fire.

Free Action: 5' Step to P2.

Done.

Stats:

Spoiler

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Forge
Current Position:P2
Equipped: 2 scrolls (color spray and shield)
6/8 hp
AC 19 (11t,18ff)
*Invisibility - 4 rounds remaining*
*Light of Lunia - 10 minutes remaining*
2 infusions remaining

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter, turn 11

Double move to G-2.

Speak Elven:

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"Should we stay here and wait him out?"

End turn.

Stats:

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Location: G-2
HP: 12/12
AC: 18, FF: 12, Touch: 16

Cat's Grace: 22/30

[Ganurath]

TP

I guess I don't need the LoS spoiler now. Move to H2, and this time I'll ready an action.

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I'll ready an action to move into melee if I detect Forge within a move action of me.

Reactive Listen - (1d20)[20]
Speak Elven

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"Stay seperate so he can't get us both with area spells. Keep your ears open!"

Stats:

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HP: 11/11
AC: 20 Full, 17 FF, 15 Touch, +5 Armor, +3 Dex, +2 Tree
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Steely Resolve 5

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1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Charging Minotaur
4. Stone Bones
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

Granted - (1d5)[3]
Granted - (1d4)[3]
[roll=Granted]1d3[/rol]

Turn Complete.

[Master_Rahl22]

Ganurath, you were already in H-2. Are you planning to move somewhere or stay where you are?

[Ganurath]

I didn't realize it at the time, but I kinda got ninja'd by the ref. In any event, I will remain in H2 for the time being.

[RPGAgmJAY]

Forge - Round 11

Guess the cat's out of the bag... but my actions remain hidden. =)

Refs & LoS:

Spoiler

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Standard Action: Attempt to cast spell from scroll:
UMD Check (DC21): [roll0]
If successful, pop the spoiler below, otherwise ignore as scroll fails to activate:

Spoiler

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Shield scroll successfully cast, targeting self. Duration: 1 minute

Forge will then take a move action to draw an alchemist's fire.

Free Action: 5' Step to O1.

Done.

Stats:

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Forge
Current Position:O1
Equipped: scroll of color spray and alchemists fire
6/8 hp
AC 23 (11t,22ff)
*Invisibility - 3 rounds remaining*
*Light of Lunia - 10 minutes remaining*
2 infusions remaining

[RPGAgmJAY]

Refs:

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For some reason I can't make the forum roll this. 2 attempts already, going to try again now.

Done.

[RPGAgmJAY]

Refs:

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Stupid forum dice roller... work!
UMD check: (1d20+11)[23]

Sorry... don't mean to post so much on this.

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter, turn 12

Move to D-4.

Ready an action:

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Ready an action to shoot Forge if he becomes visible and is more than 5ft away from me.

End turn.

Stats:

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Location: D-4
HP: 12/12
AC: 20, FF: 14, Touch: 18

Cat's Grace: 21/30

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

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Shield has a verbal component. DC 0 to hear.
TeamPlayer is 35 ft away, 20-3 = success by 17
Shooter Listen - (1d20+2)[10] is 55 ft away = success by 5

Forge

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You have LoS to the others.

McArcher

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You hear speaking to eastish of yourself.

TeamPlayer

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You hear chanting east of yourself.

[Ganurath]

TP

I'll remain in the tree square and ready an action again.

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I'll ready an action to move into melee if I detect Forge within a move action of me.

Active Spot - (1d20)[16]
Reactive Spot - (1d20)[13]
Reactive Listen - (1d20)[13]
I'm looking to Spot something in particular, which is explained in what I'm saying with Speak Elven for ref reference.
Speak Elven

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"Eyes on the bog for footfalls, his feet will make fine craters to expose him if he enters."

Stats:

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HP: 11/11
AC: 20 Full, 17 FF, 15 Touch, +5 Armor, +3 Dex, +2 Tree
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Steely Resolve 5

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1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Charging Minotaur
4. Stone Bones
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

Turn Complete.

[RPGAgmJAY]

Forge - Round 12

Refs & LoS:

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Standard: Cast Infusion into self.

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'Shield of Faith'

Move Action: 15' move to N2.

Done.

Stats:

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Forge
Current Position:N2
Equipped: scroll of color spray and alchemists fire
6/8 hp
AC 25 (13t,24ff)
*Invisibility - 2 rounds remaining*
*Light of Lunia - 10 minutes remaining*
*Shield - 9 rounds remaining*
*Shield of Faith - 10 rounds remaining*
1 infusions remaining

[Psionic Dog]

HighRef PsiDog

@Refs

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Forge does spell stuff (DC 0 + distance) and moves half speed (takes 5 for DC 6 + distance)

TP makes the listen check by 10 on the spellcasting, and by 5 on movement
Shooter Listen - (1d20+2)[13] A new round, a new listen.
Shooter gets simple successes on both

Shooter

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You hear more speech and movement to the east.

Note on Spot Checks: A DC 20 will notice the presence of an invisible creature within 30ft, but RAW makes no allowances for seeing tracks by spot.

Team Player

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You hear more chanting and movement to the east

Note on Spot Checks: A DC 20 will notice the presence of an invisible creature within 30ft, but RAW makes no allowances for seeing tracks by spot. Finding tracks requires a search or survival checks by raw

Forge

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Full LoS

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter, turn 12

Move: Spot check
Spot - (1d20+3)[18]

Ready an action:

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Ready an action to shoot Forge if he becomes visible and is more than 5ft away from me.

End turn.

Stats:

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Location: D-4
HP: 12/12
AC: 20, FF: 14, Touch: 18

Cat's Grace: 20/30

[Ganurath]

TP

I'll remain in the tree square and ready an action again.

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I'll ready an action to move into melee if I detect Forge within a move action of me.

Active Listen - (1d20)[18]
Reactive Spot - (1d20)[18]
Reactive Listen - (1d20)[4]

"Come on, tin can, are you trying to bring down the lightning?!"

Stats:

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HP: 11/11
AC: 20 Full, 17 FF, 15 Touch, +5 Armor, +3 Dex, +2 Tree
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Steely Resolve 5

Spoiler

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1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Charging Minotaur
4. Stone Bones
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

Granted - (1d5)[5]
Granted - (1d4)[2]
Granted - (1d3)[3]

Turn Complete.

[RPGAgmJAY]

Forge - Round 13

I'll post the full turn even those you don't have LoS until *after* my attack.
Move Action: 20' Move to J3
Standard Action: Release Light of Lunia as 2 ray attacks against Shooter in D4. Attacks catch Shooter flat-footed.
Ray 1 attack: (1d20+3)[4]
Ray 1 damage: (1d6)[3]
Ray 2 attack: (1d20+3)[11]
Ray 2 damage: (1d6)[2]

Done.

***LoS established here incase I trigger any readied actions by appearing.***

Stats:

Spoiler

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Forge
Current Position:J3
Equipped: scroll of color spray and alchemists fire
6/8 hp
AC 25 (13t,24ff)
*Shield - 8 rounds remaining*
*Shield of Faith - 9 rounds remaining*
1 infusions remaining

[Master_Rahl22]

Both attacks miss.
Readied action to shoot Forge if he becomes visible and isn't within 5 ft of me goes off.
Attack - (1d20+8)[19]
Damage - (1d8+1)[2]

Shooter, turn 13

Rapid shot on Forge
Attack - (1d20+6)[23]
Damage - (1d8+1)[7]

Attack - (1d20+6)[9]
Damage - (1d8+1)[2]

End turn.

Stats:

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Location: D-4
HP: 12/12
AC: 20, FF: 14, Touch: 18

Cat's Grace: 19/30

[Ganurath]

Appearing within range of a move action triggers a readied action to move adjacent. In this case, I2.

TP

Let's give Stone Bones a swing.
Stone Bones - (1d20+6)[8]
Damage - (1d10+6)[11]
Confirm - (1d20+6)[21]
Critical - (1d10+6)[8]

After that, hit or miss, I'll take a move action to D4. Assuming I don't get a lucky crit, take your AoO.

Stats:

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HP: 11/11
AC: 18 Full, 15 FF, 13 Touch, +5 Armor, +3 Dex
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will -2
Special: Steely Resolve 5

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1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Charging Minotaur
4. Stone Bones
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

Granted - (1d2)[1]

Turn Complete.

[Tanaric]

Shooter/refs:

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As an idle observation... how did a flat-footed touch attack miss on an 11 against Shooter?

[RPGAgmJAY]

Need a clarification from Team Player:

You had a readied action to: "Move adjacent to me should I appear within range of a single move action?"

The way I understand readied actions, the following should occur:
1. Your readied action is triggered when I appear at the end of my turn.
2. You take your readied action(which is a move action, no attack), which reduces your initiative count so next turn you go after me.

If all this is correct, is Team Player stuck with the same basic action and die rolls next turn?

Same basic questions to Shooter as well, it's like they skipped my turn.

I'll take my next turn with the assumption that Team Player is in square I2.

Good Gaming!
-Jason

[Master_Rahl22]

I'm not sure what happens to initiative when using readied actions, to be honest. I'd love a ref ruling.

Tanaric/refs:

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I'd forgotten that Light of Lunia is a touch attack, but even so I'm in a square with a tree. It says nothing about what type of bonus the +2 AC from the tree is, so I'd assumed it applied to all.

[RPGAgmJAY]

I'm not sure what happens to initiative when using readied actions, to be honest. I'd love a ref ruling.

From the SRD:

Initiative Consequences of Readying

Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed your readied action, you don’t get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again). If you take your readied action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.

You guys want me to just take 2 actions and we'll be caught up?

[Master_Rahl22]

Neither of us took our readied actions in the next round. So if I understand that right, my initiative dropped to the count on which I took my readied action which would be the same as Forge, and since I have a higher modifier I now go after TP and before Forge. Then TP's action goes off too, and he is now on the same initiative count as all 3 of us, and his initiative modifier is in the middle. Thus we have the same initiative order as we used to, and once you finished your turn that provoked the actions, we pick back up just like normal with my turn.

[RPGAgmJAY]

Your readied actions didn't get triggered until after my turn was complete. My invisibility drops after my attack and my attack was the end of my turn. That means you go after me in the following round.

[Ganurath]

The readied actions went off when Forge appeared, so somewhere between the first and second attack. In other words, before your turn ended.

[Sallera]

Ah, pedantic rules debates, the soul of the Arena...

So, as I see it, this is what happens. Forge takes his attack (both rays are simultaneous). While he has no further actions planned, it is still his turn. Shooter's initiative count comes before TP's, so his readied action goes off first, placing his initiative just before Forge. TP's readied action then goes off, placing his initiative between Shooter and Forge. Then Forge's turn finishes, making it Shooter's turn. As far as I can tell, this would seem to be consistent with Arena precedent and RAW, but if you're not convinced, feel free to present evidence to the contrary (or just go bother Kyeudo...).

Edit: Just to clarify, the reason I say the readied actions happen on Forge's turn - he still has actions available, despite declaring the end of his turn, and if he so wished, he could take them in response to the readied actions going off.

[Tanaric]

The above Salleraism* would appear to be correct by my understanding of things, if you needed input from another ref.

*Salleraism: A statement or ruling that is both amazingly speedy and surprisingly accurate.

[RPGAgmJAY]

Edit: Just to clarify, the reason I say the readied actions happen on Forge's turn - he still has actions available, despite declaring the end of his turn, and if he so wished, he could take them in response to the readied actions going off.

Your arguement makes sense based on the premise that I still had actions available and prematurely ended my turn.

Except that I didn't. A character may make a move action and a standard action per turn. Free actions take up no time, which is why they are 'free' and don't fit into the standard breakdown of limited actions. I made a move and then a standard action. No other actions available. My invisibility vanished after my attack which was at the completion of my turn, not in the middle of it.

I specifically asked Kyeudo about when my invisibility would drop and he stated that this would occur after the attack. Those readied actions can't trigger until after my attack, since my attack ended my turn the triggering event occurred directly after my initiative count as my initiative count passed with the completion of my attack.

I'll ask Kyeudo to rule on this. Like I said, Sallera's call was a good one but based on an incorrect premise. Forge had no further actions available.

[Ganurath]

Swift actions still exist, even if you don't have the ability to use them.

[Sallera]

Free actions are also available, and while they may take up no time, you can still only take them on your turn, which means you could take them in response to the readied actions. Just because you had no useful options available doesn't mean you didn't have any options available.